Help understanding pulleys

[fstr n u]

http://www.vdamper.com/30-V6-TSI-Supercharged_p_42.html

1. If I was to install a 203 mm crankshaft pulley and leave the supercharger pulley I would need a stage 2 tune...is that correct?

2. What advantages are there to installing a DP (smaller supercharger pulley and a 183mm or 179mm crank pulley) vs just doing a 203mm?

3. If I was to consider the stage 3 option which pushes the stock blower to max Rpms does a stage 2 tune cover things or does a person require special tuning? Are there any other considerations at this stage?

As I'm a 6MT person I know I need a SS line, clutch/flywheel (at some point), cooling upgrade, drivetrain mount upgrades, air intake upgrade and probably a short throw shifter.

Ryan

[theweebabyseamus]

203 is pretty much a dual pulley ratio so I’m not sure stage 2 software would work well.

[14S4GWM]

All the info you need is here

[MSq5]

All the info you need is here

Excellent. Anything over 183mm on the crank pulley would probably be classified as Stage 2+. That will require a Stage 2+ (dual pulley) tune. Some at 2+ ratios were running Stage 2 tunes with a Chipwerke Pro (CW) piggy back with success, initially, but there are dual pulley tunes now from most tuners.

It's all about the ratio of supercharger rpm to crank rpm, and not so much how you get there. I'm at Stage 2 with 179mm JBM solid crank pulley and content, because my Q5 would need extra cooling hardware to go higher.

[Jay@JXB]

As a point of reference, Stage 2+ for many companies was just a smaller SC pulley before all of this Dual Pulley stuff came about. Haven’t paid much attention lately but my Unitronics tune from Spring 2015 was Stage 2+ with just a pulley and a tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theweebabyseamus]

I think Unitronic was the only tuner to label it that way.

[mcjim]

APR sells their 187mm crank and stage 2 tune, so I don't think 183 is the limit for having to switch to 2+

[MSq5]

APR sells their 187mm crank and stage 2 tune, so I don't think 183 is the limit for having to switch to 2+

I think that combo may bleed off excess boost, though. Might be mistaken.

[mcjim]

I think that combo may bleed off excess boost, though. Might be mistaken.

Not sure when and where it may bleed off boost, but their site has a different power band curve than just the stage 2 supercharger pulley, so something is different.

Back to the OP though, there is no benefit to a DP versus larger single. So your answer to 1 - yes. 2 - none. 3 - more tuning for these mods can unlock more power.

[BG SQ5]

http://www.vdamper.com/30-V6-TSI-Supercharged_p_42.html

1. If I was to install a 203 mm crankshaft pulley and leave the supercharger pulley I would need a stage 2 tune...is that correct?

2. What advantages are there to installing a DP (smaller supercharger pulley and a 183mm or 179mm crank pulley) vs just doing a 203mm?

3. If I was to consider the stage 3 option which pushes the stock blower to max Rpms does a stage 2 tune cover things or does a person require special tuning? Are there any other considerations at this stage?

As I'm a 6MT person I know I need a SS line, clutch/flywheel (at some point), cooling upgrade, drivetrain mount upgrades, air intake upgrade and probably a short throw shifter.

Ryan

1. For APR, you just need a stage 2 tune. It's good for all pulley ratios from 2.81 to 3.24. For most other tuners, you need a DP tune that utilizes the extra boost. For example, you'd buy the EPL stage 2 tune and 'add-on' the DP tune like you'd do for a race fuel file.

2. The biggest disadvantage is cost, as most who run 203mm go with the more expensive Fluidampr you linked. You could go with a solid crank from KI though. Otherwise, the crank only is mostly advantages like easier/cheaper install and more belt contact.

3. There isn't a 'stage 3' per se currently. Changing pulley ratio is considered stage 2, and APR is calling the UC (TB) 'stage 2+'. We've generally termed the higher pulley ratios 'DP', and Unitronic uses the '+' to designate 93 over 91 octane. With all that said- the nomenclature gets a little confusing. If you're new to the platform, it's not advisable to go above the typical DP ratios (~3.2). Above that requires 'special tuning' that not everyone supports (or stacking a Chipwerke). In fact, I'd say stay at 2.8x until you really know what's going on. Above that requires experience and knowledge more that anything. You have to be able to properly monitor and access the car's performance and health with the ability to make the necessary adjustments as needed based on ambient conditions, fuel, driving cycles, etc... The main hardware consideration at higher pulley ratios is always cooling though.

[GandalfTheIbis]

1. For APR, you just need a stage 2 tune. It's good for all pulley ratios from 2.81 to 3.24. For most other tuners, you need a DP tune that utilizes the extra boost. For example, you'd buy the EPL stage 2 tune and 'add-on' the DP tune like you'd do for a race fuel file.

2. The biggest disadvantage is cost, as most who run 203mm go with the more expensive Fluidampr you linked. You could go with a solid crank from KI though. Otherwise, the crank only is mostly advantages like easier/cheaper install and more belt contact.

3. There isn't a 'stage 3' per se currently. Changing pulley ratio is considered stage 2, and APR is calling the UC (TB) 'stage 2+'. We've generally termed the higher pulley ratios 'DP', and Unitronic uses the '+' to designate 93 over 91 octane. With all that said- the nomenclature gets a little confusing. If you're new to the platform, it's not advisable to go above the typical DP ratios (~3.2). Above that requires 'special tuning' that not everyone supports (or stacking a Chipwerke). In fact, I'd say stay at 2.8x until you really know what's going on. Above that requires experience and knowledge more that anything. You have to be able to properly monitor and access the car's performance and health with the ability to make the necessary adjustments as needed based on ambient conditions, fuel, driving cycles, etc... The main hardware consideration at higher pulley ratios is always cooling though.

Very well put, especially the bit about the higher pulley ratios

[TROTTERS4]

1. For APR, you just need a stage 2 tune. It's good for all pulley ratios from 2.81 to 3.24. For most other tuners, you need a DP tune that utilizes the extra boost. For example, you'd buy the EPL stage 2 tune and 'add-on' the DP tune like you'd do for a race fuel file.

2. The biggest disadvantage is cost, as most who run 203mm go with the more expensive Fluidampr you linked. You could go with a solid crank from KI though. Otherwise, the crank only is mostly advantages like easier/cheaper install and more belt contact.

3. There isn't a 'stage 3' per se currently. Changing pulley ratio is considered stage 2, and APR is calling the UC (TB) 'stage 2+'. We've generally termed the higher pulley ratios 'DP', and Unitronic uses the '+' to designate 93 over 91 octane. With all that said- the nomenclature gets a little confusing. If you're new to the platform, it's not advisable to go above the typical DP ratios (~3.2). Above that requires 'special tuning' that not everyone supports (or stacking a Chipwerke). In fact, I'd say stay at 2.8x until you really know what's going on. Above that requires experience and knowledge more that anything. You have to be able to properly monitor and access the car's performance and health with the ability to make the necessary adjustments as needed based on ambient conditions, fuel, driving cycles, etc... The main hardware consideration at higher pulley ratios is always cooling though.

This is good info. Thank you.

[fstr n u]

1. Would there be any "fitment" issues with installing the 203mm fluiddampr crank pulley? Would anything need to be filed off the block? I've come across some threads where people have mentioned bits and pieces had to be shaved off to allow their pulley/belt to work properly?

2. What ratio would a JHM 179mm crank pulley and smaller supercharger pulley be at? It seems like most people are trying to push 3 - 3.2 or 3.3 from what i can see (and the little i understand thus far about this)

[John@Unitronic]

1. Would there be any "fitment" issues with installing the 203mm fluiddampr crank pulley? Would anything need to be filed off the block? I've come across some threads where people have mentioned bits and pieces had to be shaved off to allow their pulley/belt to work properly?

2. What ratio would a JHM 179mm crank pulley and smaller supercharger pulley be at? It seems like most people are trying to push 3 - 3.2 or 3.3 from what i can see (and the little i understand thus far about this)

Yes, I'm quite sure a 203mm crank pulley will some grinding/filing. It really depends on what pulley ratio you're targeting. You should choose your tuner first, and then choose a pulley setup after, based on what your tuner has files for.

[MSq5]

Yes, I'm quite sure a 203mm crank pulley will some grinding/filing. It really depends on what pulley ratio you're targeting. You should choose your tuner first, and then choose a pulley setup after, based on what your tuner has files for.

I had to to trim back the tip of that block casting even with a JHM 179mm on my Q5. As far as I know the Q5 3.0T block is the same as on S4.

This is very easy to do. I have power tools but didn't see the need. Most seem to use a grinder. Considering how small it is, I just used a fresh hacksaw blade. Maybe 5 minutes.

[John@Unitronic]

FWIW, our Dual Pulley will be labeled "Stage 3" once released, which should happen in Q1 2018.

[fstr n u]

Thx for the advice John. I'll be watching for a thread on your stage 3 product. Keep us posted.

Thx MSQ5....that's the feel i got is that filing seems to be a necessity (but not hard to do.

[eurotic]

I was looking to just do a single crank pulley swap to get to a Dual Pulley ratio and both iABED and EPL discouraged that approach. I believe you have to change an idler and/or a tensioner to get the 203+ to work safely...in addition to the block grinding previously mentioned. I opted to go the more traditional route of swapping both the SC pulley and crank pulley. For now just going stage 2 so I am putting in the base Fluidampr and will get an OD ring when dual pulley time comes.

[KRp220]

i went from stage 1 (stock pulleys obv) to dual pulley with both the supercharger pulley and a crank pullley for a final ratio of 3.2
i asked GIAC if i could go straight to a 203 to avoid buying 2 pulleys, but i was advised against it
with that being said, some other people are running just a 200+ on a dual pulley file