"AUDacIouS4" Allroad Prescision Turbo 5558 build

[AUDacIouS4]

My ECS Luft-Technik intake is for sale. Used for 8 months. Make an offer.
Includes heat shield, turbo inlet pipe, all hardware, filter, sounds great!!
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-part...004535ecs01kt/
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[bakedziti]

^$100 +shipping?

[A4x]

Ordered this from ECS today. #becauseracecar
Attachment 61369

Where are you going to put it? See my post here: don't think it will fit after the center resonator and before the rear muffler. You'll likely have to put it between the downpipe and center resonator, which would pretty much be a straight piped engine with only HFC for me LOL.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13051803

[AUDacIouS4]

Where are you going to put it? See my post here: don't think it will fit after the center resonator and before the rear muffler. You'll likely have to put it between the downpipe and center resonator, which would pretty much be a straight piped engine with only HFC for me LOL.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13051803

I was thinking of placing it right before the resonator in my downpipe or have the resonator moved further upstream and install it where the resonator currently sits in my picture. That way it would be HFC + resonator before the cutout. Its going to be obnoxiously loud either way but then again that's kind of the point. On track it will be nice though. I'd probably open it up on the street only to terrify some poor old lady in her Lexus at the stoplight. Mooohahahaha!!!!
Attachment 61600Attachment 61601

Where are you going to put it? See my post here: don't think it will fit after the center resonator and before the rear muffler. You'll likely have to put it between the downpipe and center resonator, which would pretty much be a straight piped engine with only HFC for me LOL.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...1#post13051803

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[AUDacIouS4]

Actually, scratch that. I just looked under the car and there is a nice straight section that would be further back near the rear tire. That way when the cutout is open its not right under the front seats vibrating my ass and rattling apart everything within a 2 foot radius. 20180412_155523.jpeg

[AUDacIouS4]

Intake is sold, thanks for the offers!

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[JLAllroad]

I would say pre resonator or not at all....the fewest restrictions...which is the point, right? Regardless you’re going to have to be mindful of the heat surrounding the pipe and the exit.


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[A4x]

Actually, scratch that. I just looked under the car and there is a nice straight section that would be further back near the rear tire. That way when the cutout is open its not right under the front seats vibrating my ass and rattling apart everything within a 2 foot radius. 20180412_155523.jpeg

This picture looks like the center resonator was already deleted.

[AUDacIouS4]

This picture looks like the center resonator was already deleted.

That's the first section of catback just before the "y" which would be position 2 on the diagram from your other thread

[A4x]

That's the first section of catback just before the "y" which would be position 2 on the diagram from your other thread

The sedan has a giant resonator there, just rearward of that crossbrace that goes under the exhaust. Allroad looks quite different back there.

[AUDacIouS4]

I finished the install yesterday with a friend. Definitely nice having a second set of hands, especially removing the stock turbo which was more work than installing the new turbo.
Here's a couple teasers, I'll do a quick tutorial later today when I finish up the vacuum lines and N75 layout.

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[Perry01]

Yea, the stock turbo is a bitch to get out. I had to do it with just my two hands. When do you get the tune done?

[AUDacIouS4]

For the snowboarders...
[URL]https://www.instagram.com/audinines//[URL]


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[AUDacIouS4]

Here's the basic vacuum diagram for an external wastegate. I drilled and tapped new mounting holes in the frame rail to mount the N75 as shown. The N75 has two vacuum ports, one goes to the turbo inlet, one to the top of the wastegate. The third port, which is a metal nipple, goes to the positive pressure port on the wastegate. Pretty straightforward. There is an additional vacuum line with a check valve that runs to the intake manifold that must see vacuum from the turbo inlet side as well. The PCV breather connects to the turbo inlet as well and that's it. I'm still debating whether I should run a catch can, I used them on my Subaru's and it helped but Its hard to justify $500 for a kit.
Treadstone makes a cool "T" coupler which will work perfect to mount the ATP Diverter Valve relocater on the charge pipe.
The car is off to Four Seasons Tuning to get the 034 downpipe frankensteined and make a turbo inlet. Should have the car back Tuesday. I don't have a appointment to get tuned yet so I'll have to granny the car around for a few days. Although, if I just run wastegate pressure (15psi) and disconnect the vacuum lines to the N75 I think it would be ok on the GIAC tune
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[AUDacIouS4]

New plates ordered.20180417_095840.jpeg

[Townending]

Super sick build!

Do you attend any of the local Audi Club meets? I'd love to see this thing once you get it all done.

[AUDacIouS4]

Super sick build!

Do you attend any of the local Audi Club meets? I'd love to see this thing once you get it all done.

One just started up again in OC so I'll check it out soon. Its called "Audi Grüp OC"

[AUDacIouS4]

Bumps in the road. The guys at Four Season Tuning don't like how close the turbine housing is positioned next to all the solenoids along the head so they are cutting the exhaust flange off the manifold and repositioning it. Also, I'm having United Motorsports tune the car since they do all the custom tunung for Four Season. Eurodynamic is too busy and our prior arrangement isn't going to work out.

I sent United all the fueling information and they said that the stock HPFP can't even max out a K04 setup, which for you K04 guys means you can make more power. I thought the stock HPFP would be fine to 400whp since the B8 S4 guys can run about E40 making just over 400whp until the HPFP becomes an issue.. ????so I'm picking up an Autotech HPFP upgrade tomorrow. I didn't realize Autotech is 1.2 miles from my house!

It looks like the car will be done next Tuesday.....maybe

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[Jezza]

Bumps in the road. The guys at Four Season Tuning don't like how close the turbine housing is positioned next to all the solenoids along the head so they are cutting the exhaust flange off the manifold and repositioning it. Also, I'm having United Motorsports tune the car since they do all the custom tunung for Four Season. Eurodynamic is too busy and our prior arrangement isn't going to work out.

I sent United all the fueling information and they said that the stock HPFP can't even max out a K04 setup, which for you K04 guys means you can make more power.
Audizine mobile app

That's odd. I thought the F23 made more power than a K04, and there's no need to upgrade the HPFP for the F23 or tune. I would also think the major K04 vendors would be all over this if it were true. I mean, since when did they not want to sell as much stuff as possible.

I guess it can't hurt to upgrade the HPFP, and you can probably max it out with your setup. I'm just dubious of the claim that the stock K04 can exceed the limits of the stock HPFP. Maybe someone will chime in with a definite answer.

Anyway, I hope your car is finished and ready-to-run soon. I can't wait to see the results!

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[Perry01]

My K04 pushes a lot of air (over 310 g/s) up top and fuel logs show actual fuel pressure keeping up with requested. I’ll ask my tuner what he has experienced with the stock HPFP.

[AUDacIouS4]

My K04 pushes a lot of air (over 310 g/s) up top and fuel logs show actual fuel pressure keeping up with requested. I’ll ask my tuner what he has experienced with the stock HPFP.

That's odd. I thought the F23 made more power than a K04, and there's no need to upgrade the HPFP for the F23 or tune. I would also think the major K04 vendors would be all over this if it were true. I mean, since when did they not want to sell as much stuff as possible.

I guess it can't hurt to upgrade the HPFP, and you can probably max it out with your setup. I'm just dubious of the claim that the stock K04 can exceed the limits of the stock HPFP. Maybe someone will chime in with a definite answer.

Anyway, I hope your car is finished and ready-to-run soon. I can't wait to see the results!

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I totally agree with both of you if we're talking about running pump gas, with E85, its a different story. I talked with APR about a year ago about this and their K04 E85 tune for the Allroad maxes out the fueling. He didnt say what aspect of the fueling reached its limit but I would say it was the HPFP. The B8 S4 dual pulley guys swapped out their S4 LPFP for the "AN" version out of the Allroad becuase it flows more. However, they then moved on to the "AS" LPFP pump out of the RS5.

I bought the Autotech kit as a "just in case."
UM is going to see what the stock fueling can handle first. He also wanted to replace the 730cc/min 5th injector with a 1200cc? I'm not sure thats necessary yet though.

[B8_Dude97]

A loba k04 could probably max out a hpfp but that k04 is far from stock


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[casey_tuzziano]

I'll be running E85 with Auto Tech's pump, so I'll get to find out what the limit is

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[tomsgtr]

Does that apply with e85 with k04? Because e85 will require at least 30 percent more fuel than gasoline


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[AUDacIouS4]

Does that apply with e85 with k04? Because e85 will require at least 30 percent more fuel than gasoline


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Yes it does. Yes you are correct that you need a larger volume of E85 at any given power level since it takes more energy and heat to combust. The issue is, that while the stock pump may be capable of pushing enough fuel to make 400whp on 91 or 93 oct, as many MK6 guys have done, it will not be able to flow enough volume of higher ethanol content fuel to make that same 400whp. But the other thing to keep in mind is the energy density of ethanol is far greater than 93 oct, even 100 oct, which also means that it has the potential to create more power at those same fuel volume levels.
I logged all the fuel pressure and injector parameters running E70 which I posted in this thread a while back. https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...php?p=12948581
The fueling looked solid in all respects, but I'm only making 290whp/335wtq. Allroadcorbin and Earythmic are running the APR k04 E85 tune, Allroadcorbin made 320whp/400wtq and If we looked at his fueling, I bet his HPFP graph would be dropping off. It's like asking the HPFP to give you 5% more fuel to make 20whp but it can't.

That's why I'm curious to see how far the stock HPFP will go. I re-read "slowone" big turbo thread and at one point while diagnosing fueling the shop was able to make 400whp(at 5280') on 91 with the Loba HPFP. @26psi. They put the stock pump back in and it couldn't keep up on that tune. But he was in Denver at 5280' so if you correct those numbers, 400whp at altitude was more like 440whp at sea level and thats why the stock HPFP wasn't enough.

[Grippy]

Yes it does. Yes you are correct that you need a larger volume of E85 at any given power level since it takes more energy and heat to combust. The issue is, that while the stock pump may be capable of pushing enough fuel to make 400whp on 91 or 93 oct, as many MK6 guys have done, it will not be able to flow enough volume of higher ethanol content fuel to make that same 400whp. But the other thing to keep in mind is the energy density of ethanol is far greater than 93 oct, even 100 oct, which also means that it has the potential to create more power at those same fuel volume levels.

Here's something I keep wondering. How is it that something with a higher energy density (presuming joules per given unit of volume) require greater volume for the same power? I'm sure there's a good reason I just don't know it and it throws me off every time I look at the chemistry of it all.

[AUDacIouS4]

Here's something I keep wondering. How is it that something with a higher energy density (presuming joules per given unit of volume) require greater volume for the same power? I'm sure there's a good reason I just don't know it and it throws me off every time I look at the chemistry of it all.

This is helpful
http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/04/...about-ethanol/

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[Grippy]

Cool, so basically E85 needs less air to be stoich, so since we aren't choking the motor for air to make the same power, we'll throw excess ethanol at it to make more power with the same volume of intake air. That combined with the high octane rating and cooling power crates a trifecta of explosion capacity (explodability?). I love it

[Townending]

Here's something I keep wondering. How is it that something with a higher energy density (presuming joules per given unit of volume) require greater volume for the same power? I'm sure there's a good reason I just don't know it and it throws me off every time I look at the chemistry of it all.

I was under the impression E85 puts out less energy per given volume, hence why you need the extra ~30% to make up for it.

Gasoline = 7594.0 kcal/Liter
E85 = 5463.3 kcal/liter

Based on the numbers above, unless I'm ready this backwards, E85 puts out less energy per given volume. In the numbers stated above, that volume is 1 Liter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...ivalent_tables

[AUDacIouS4]

I was under the impression E85 puts out less energy per given volume, hence why you need the extra ~30% to make up for it.

Gasoline = 7594.0 kcal/Liter
E85 = 5463.3 kcal/liter

Based on the numbers above, unless I'm ready this backwards, E85 puts out less energy per given volume. In the numbers stated above, that volume is 1 Liter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...ivalent_tables

You are correct. E85 has slightly lower energy content per kilogram, but because E85 is much richer stochiometrically, you need more of it, 30-40% more by volume to mix with the same mass of air as pump gas. E85 is 30% oxygen by weight and its effective octane rating performs closer to MS109 or 116 octane race fuels. It creates more power because of its latent heat property, allowing much more timing advance and higher boost pressures giving it immunity against detonation.
The key, as stated in the article, is being able to supply the volume of fuel needed to sustain those higher power levels.

[AUDacIouS4]

My wife is selling her Stasis B8 S4 if anyone is interested.
https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=809441

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[Mars2]

Many sources make a big deal about E85 having less thermal energy per gallon that a gallon of gas. They frequently draw the false conclusion that you cannot make more power on E85 than you can on gasoline. E85 actually has a higher specific energy at stoichiometric fuel air mixtures than gasoline, and at proper max power mixtures releases more thermal energy in the cylinder for a given amount of air to burn. Since an internal combustion engines power output is primarily air supply limited this means you can make 5% to nearly 30% more power on E85 than you can on gasoline.

(edit 6/10/08) Current experience shows turbocharged cars like the WRX and DSM families can run upwards of 30 psi boost on E85 tunes without knock. The only case I know of where knock was logged was on a 500+ whp DSM running 35-39 psi boost!

Ethanol specific energy at stoichiometric fuel air mixtures is actually higher than gasoline allowing a higher release of energy per lb of air burned than gasoline.

Typical gasoline Thermal energy 19,000 BTU/lb max power fuel air mixture 12.5:1
Typical E85 Thermal energy 13,475 BTU/lb max power fuel air mixture 6.975:1
Typical ethanol Thermal energy 12,500 BTU/lb 6.429:1

If you are consuming 100 lbs of air, lets see how much fuel energy you release for each of these fuels using gasoline as the base 100% reference.
100/12.5 = 8 lbs of gasoline @ 19,000 BTU/lb = 152,000 BTU = 100%
100/6.975 = 14.337 lbs of E85 @ 13,475 BTU/lb = 193,189.9 BTU = 127% more heat energy
100/6.429 = 15.555 lbs of Ethanol @ 12,500 BTU/lb = 194431.5 BTU = 128.9% more heat energy

Typical fuel energy contents:
gallon of gasoline = 125,000 Btu
1 gallon of ethanol = 84,400 Btu
1 gallon methanol = 62,800 Btu
1 gallon of gasohol
(10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) = 120,900 Btu
1 gallon of E-85

[shaunm82]

Bumps in the road. The guys at Four Season Tuning don't like how close the turbine housing is positioned next to all the solenoids along the head so they are cutting the exhaust flange off the manifold and repositioning it. Also, I'm having United Motorsports tune the car since they do all the custom tunung for Four Season. Eurodynamic is too busy and our prior arrangement isn't going to work out.

I sent United all the fueling information and they said that the stock HPFP can't even max out a K04 setup, which for you K04 guys means you can make more power. I thought the stock HPFP would be fine to 400whp since the B8 S4 guys can run about E40 making just over 400whp until the HPFP becomes an issue.. ????so I'm picking up an Autotech HPFP upgrade tomorrow. I didn't realize Autotech is 1.2 miles from my house!

It looks like the car will be done next Tuesday.....maybe

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It's Tuesday Chris! What do you have for us!?

[AUDacIouS4]

It's Tuesday Chris! What do you have for us!?

I know they started welding everything up today, since they got the flanges they were waiting for this morning. That's all I got :(

[shaunm82]

Progress is progress even if it is slow! Hopefully they can make some nice ground up here in the next couple of days~

[AUDacIouS4]

034 High Flow Cat downpipe for sale.
https://store.034motorsport.com/high...-2-0-tfsi.html

Used for one year. Make an offer. 20180425_125209.jpeg

[AUDacIouS4]

Soo....the shop is supposed to be done today. In what was supposed to be a day job turned into two weeks somehow. They keep taking in other projects and my car just sits there on the back burner. I'm not very pleased with the situation but it is what it is. UM is still working on utilizing the 5th injector like port injection to overcome any fueling obstacles. I don't get it, "Slowone"s car was tuned by UM with weaker fueling parts with the same turbo and made like 450whp on 91. For some reason he's scratching his head on this one??

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[casey_tuzziano]

Soo....the shop is supposed to be done today. In what was supposed to be a day job turned into two weeks somehow. They keep taking in other projects and my car just sits there on the back burner. I'm not very pleased with the situation but it is what it is. UM is still working on utilizing the 5th injector like port injection to overcome any fueling obstacles. I don't get it, "Slowone"s car was tuned by UM with weaker fueling parts with the same turbo and made like 450whp on 91. For some reason he's scratching his head on this one??

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Are you referring to Mike's B8?

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[AUDacIouS4]

Are you referring to Mike's B8?

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Is that "slowone" Real name? Then yes.

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[casey_tuzziano]

Is that "slowone" Real name? Then yes.

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I thought it only made 402 to the wheels

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