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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Riddle me this... Blow Thru MAF

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    97 A4 BAT (HX35)-Q-M

    So i'm slightly obsessed with the idea of getting a blow thru MAF setup on my car. There are a number of reasons, recirc valves can lick me where i pee, clean up the hotside piping on the turbo, etc etc but we're not here to argue that. At 44PSI, things tend to leak, and occasionally pop off, so having a MAF right by the throttle body would be ideal under those circumstances. That and I can't begin to tell you how tired I am of dealing with these stupid recirc valves.

    My question is, with Maestro, is this even a possibility? No matter what I do with tuning, or actual hardware modifications, I can't seem to clear up the rich spots between shifts, and after letting off under load then having it go stupid rich.

    From what i've read, an HPX MAF would come with crossover data, so all i'd have to do is put that into Maestro to modify the airmeter settings, then run a blow off valve right before the MAF.

    Stupid expensive standalone is out of the question.

    What I need, is someone to provide reasons why this WOULD, or WOULDN'T work. I'm in the mindset that I can make it work with the tuning capabilities the car has, but I could be completely wrong, and THAT'S where YOU come in!

    Would the compressed air make a difference as opposed to the non compressed air on the piping hotside? I have a catch can in place, no factory PCV system, so getting oil in it would not be an issue.

    Just trying to pick people's brains on this issue. It's going to cost a bit of money, so i'd hate to spend all that only to fall flat on my face because of something i've overlooked, but it seems like something I should do, for mere simplicity if the system of nothing else. I've searched and searched but can't seem to find a concrete answer, just people bickering back and forth.

    Thanks for any input you can provide!

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    I don't know tuning, so can't assist there. But I can place input on maybe a different approach.

    What hoses in particular keep popping of? What recirculating valve are you using? Any other issues other than hoses popping off? Meaning, the tune is solid with the MAF in it's current location?
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerlah View Post
    I don't know tuning, so can't assist there. But I can place input on maybe a different approach.

    What hoses in particular keep popping of? What recirculating valve are you using? Any other issues other than hoses popping off? Meaning, the tune is solid with the MAF in it's current location?
    It's erratic which ones loosen/pop off, all beads are rolled on the piping, stainless steel t-clamps. I've eaten up a pair of Forge 007's, creating leaks where said leaks can't be repaired (cracked housings and such), still on a Forge 007 right now. If the housing doesn't give out, i'm replacing o-rings every other day it seems like. No matter what I do or how tight I make things, the freakin recirc valve ALWAYS leaks.

    Tune is 85-90% awesome with the MAF in "stock" location (hanging from turbo inlet, V8 Audi MAF, as Maestro calls for), a few rich spots here and there, but nothing that effects driveability. Another issue is that the filter and MAF sit (what I consider) dangerously close to my tubular manifold, 6 inches or so. They've maintained through the heat, but again, not optimal.

    Problem is, when you get a gnarly leak, or a hose comes loose, gotta fix it before the car will even run again.

    I'm just really looking to simplify things.

    On top of that, the recirc doesn't seem to do what it's supposed to do. Every shift it goes rich, doesn't matter the load range, doesn't matter which cells i modify in the tune. I'm familiar enough with AEMs and Maestro that the tuning portion of it is no sweat, i've tuned this car from scratch to 44psi so I like to think I know my way around it well enough to have 15k miles on the engine now .

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings A1 A2 German's Avatar
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    I asked about this ~3 years ago on this forum as I wanted a clean, short, mini intake like a wideband.

    The replay: Not a chance

    If you find my post, place it up.
    Having a bucket that runs 10's is like saying you have a 200lb girlfriend but she's good in bed.

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1 A2 German View Post
    I asked about this ~3 years ago on this forum as I wanted a clean, short, mini intake like a wideband.

    The replay: Not a chance

    If you find my post, place it up.
    I'll have to take a look, probably one of the ones I read through.

    I'm gonna need a more scientific answer that "not a chance" lol.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings Seerlah's Avatar
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    The Forge 007 is 1" inlet/outlet. You think maybe you need a larger valve to accommodate the amount of positive air you are moving? And possibly a sticky but pliable substance on the silicone hoses that not only create a good tight seal, but will prevent the hoses from popping off. For example, I use Wiggen (chinese knockoffs from ebay) clamps on my intercooler end tanks. I then use silicone couplers on the remaining joints. Look at how this person has his connections, as it may possibly be your solution.

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-BAT-content)

    If it is too much to sift through, I am friends with him and can ask him to text me the pics of his connections so you don't have to try and find them. But I got the Wiggens idea from him. Saves me from ever having to worry about the intercooler hoses popping off. Others, they are much easier to get to so it is not a great concern for me.
    I hate it when my car acts like a little bitch, treating me like a bitch

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerlah View Post
    The Forge 007 is 1" inlet/outlet. You think maybe you need a larger valve to accommodate the amount of positive air you are moving? And possibly a sticky but pliable substance on the silicone hoses that not only create a good tight seal, but will prevent the hoses from popping off. For example, I use Wiggen (chinese knockoffs from ebay) clamps on my intercooler end tanks. I then use silicone couplers on the remaining joints. Look at how this person has his connections, as it may possibly be your solution.

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...s-BAT-content)

    If it is too much to sift through, I am friends with him and can ask him to text me the pics of his connections so you don't have to try and find them. But I got the Wiggens idea from him. Saves me from ever having to worry about the intercooler hoses popping off. Others, they are much easier to get to so it is not a great concern for me.
    Hairspray! Was advised to use that by Tim @ Tim's turbos. But good point, maybe 1" in/out isn't enough... Now I need to find a reason to run a 50MM blow off valve lol.

    I'm familiar with Wiggins clamps, just not interested in spending that kind of money until I can alleviate some of my other issues.

    The only couplings I have are on the intercooler end tanks at this point, and 1 - 90 coupling on the cold side turning up to the TB (which will be welded solid this week). So the only couplers would be for the recirc valve, and the ones previously mentioned. All the piping has been welded.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Another option for clamps is to get rid of the T-bolt clamps and use a higher-quality less-wide worm drive clamp, such as ABA clamps:
    http://www.normagroup.com/norma.nsf/res/ABA_Original_datasheet_en.pdf/$file/ABA_Original_datasheet_en.pdf
    I've bought mine off Amazon with Prime. They're awesome clamps and I'm SO GLAD I got rid of T-bolt clamps.
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQM: F21, Motoza E85/750cc/3" MAF/3bar MAP, 3" HFC, custom 2.5" exhaust, TR18T FMIC, DW200 pump, I.E. con rods, Eibach coilovers, 034 RSB, A8/TT front & S4 rear brakes, SS brake lines, JHM SS/linkage, B7 RS4 clutch, 4:1 center diff, 034 street mounts, E-fan, Apikol diff mount, Stern diff bushings, Nexus 7 HU, custom sound system, bixenon, sport cloths

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  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    Another option for clamps is to get rid of the T-bolt clamps and use a higher-quality less-wide worm drive clamp, such as ABA clamps:
    http://www.normagroup.com/norma.nsf/res/ABA_Original_datasheet_en.pdf/$file/ABA_Original_datasheet_en.pdf
    I've bought mine off Amazon with Prime. They're awesome clamps and I'm SO GLAD I got rid of T-bolt clamps.
    T bolt clamps were invented by the devil himself to torture us fine Audi folk lol. Thanks for the tip those look like a hot ticket!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings andyrew's Avatar
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    Im running the HPX 3" blow through MAF on one of my tunes. How well? I dont know, I havent been able to fine tune that particular tune. (Solid waist of about $800 on my part...). I do know that tune seems to have more torque than my mafless tune for the little i've driven it.
    73 914 1.8T AEB + FWD 016 trans
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  11. #11
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyrew View Post
    Im running the HPX 3" blow through MAF on one of my tunes. How well? I dont know, I havent been able to fine tune that particular tune. (Solid waist of about $800 on my part...). I do know that tune seems to have more torque than my mafless tune for the little i've driven it.
    So you'e on a wideband car 00/01?

    Bottom line is, it works, at least to an extent. I'm assuming you just rewired the factory MAF wiring to the blow-thru MAF accordingly?

    This pretty much settles the debate. Minus a bit of tuning, it does in fact work, at least for now.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings andyrew's Avatar
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    01 harness, Car is in avatar :)

    Yes I rewired the MAF wiring for the blow through hitachi wiring. Took some doing to figure out, I have my notes somewhere if you need it.
    73 914 1.8T AEB + FWD 016 trans
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  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyrew View Post
    01 harness, Car is in avatar :)

    Yes I rewired the MAF wiring for the blow through hitachi wiring. Took some doing to figure out, I have my notes somewhere if you need it.
    If you wouldn't mind sending them over I'd appreciate it!

    I just wish there was a cheaper alternative than the HPX unit, but at least I'll get the transfer points to help dial the MAF in.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    I just realized you probably can't send s**t on here so if you've got some notes you'll share, you can email them to me @

    rodgman15@gmail.com

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings andyrew's Avatar
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    This should get you started.
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  16. #16
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyrew View Post
    This should get you started.
    That's awesome, thank you for sending that over!

    On another note, what do you suppose the chances are of having a stock MAF work in the relocated position, as opposed to using an HPX MAF?

  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    That's awesome, thank you for sending that over!

    On another note, what do you suppose the chances are of having a stock MAF work in the relocated position, as opposed to using an HPX MAF?
    I actually ran blow-through (without being tuned for it) using a stock AEB MAF sensor in a MK3 VR6 MAF housing, on my old '98.5 1.8T.
    It worked as far as I could tell, but without tuning happening for that purpose I'm uncertain how well it worked.
    Biggest challenge there would be making sure the MAF housing is sealed. I only ran 20psi and already deformed the plastic MAF housing from tightening clamps on the ends of the housing.

    My fear with this scenario is the MAF sensor potentially handling more heat than its intended application.
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQM: F21, Motoza E85/750cc/3" MAF/3bar MAP, 3" HFC, custom 2.5" exhaust, TR18T FMIC, DW200 pump, I.E. con rods, Eibach coilovers, 034 RSB, A8/TT front & S4 rear brakes, SS brake lines, JHM SS/linkage, B7 RS4 clutch, 4:1 center diff, 034 street mounts, E-fan, Apikol diff mount, Stern diff bushings, Nexus 7 HU, custom sound system, bixenon, sport cloths

    2001.5 S4 Avant: JHM shifter, 3" exhaust, Stage 1, receiving lots of love ($$$)

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    I actually ran blow-through (without being tuned for it) using a stock AEB MAF sensor in a MK3 VR6 MAF housing, on my old '98.5 1.8T.
    It worked as far as I could tell, but without tuning happening for that purpose I'm uncertain how well it worked.
    Biggest challenge there would be making sure the MAF housing is sealed. I only ran 20psi and already deformed the plastic MAF housing from tightening clamps on the ends of the housing.

    My fear with this scenario is the MAF sensor potentially handling more heat than its intended application.
    My MAF is currently about 4 inches from my tubular manifold, there's no way it's going to take more heat than its already experienced.

    That was a big concern for me, mounting it where it is right now, but it's handled everything I've thrown at it!

  19. #19
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    I was more-so referring to the temperature of air flowing through the MAF sensor, not just the MAF housing.
    2001.5 A4 1.8TQM: F21, Motoza E85/750cc/3" MAF/3bar MAP, 3" HFC, custom 2.5" exhaust, TR18T FMIC, DW200 pump, I.E. con rods, Eibach coilovers, 034 RSB, A8/TT front & S4 rear brakes, SS brake lines, JHM SS/linkage, B7 RS4 clutch, 4:1 center diff, 034 street mounts, E-fan, Apikol diff mount, Stern diff bushings, Nexus 7 HU, custom sound system, bixenon, sport cloths

    2001.5 S4 Avant: JHM shifter, 3" exhaust, Stage 1, receiving lots of love ($$$)

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan View Post
    I was more-so referring to the temperature of air flowing through the MAF sensor, not just the MAF housing.
    Theoretically, it would be colder since it has already passed through the intercooler, no?

    Guess it's kind of a wash, as it's being heated from compression, yet cooled by the intercooler.

  21. #21
    Active Member One Ring
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    Having this dilemma right now.

    Did you try the blow through setup? If so how hard was it to tune?

    I am debating running this on my 97 AEB. Dont really want to go mafless.

    Thanks

  22. #22
    Established Member Two Rings
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    To me it just sounds like you are creating a bunch of work for yourself and you will not yield any noticeable benefit...if you don't toss off system operation to begin with.
    Last thing I would want to be doing is disturbing Audi's shitty wiring harnesses to relocate the wires for the MAF.
    Also, is the MAF designed to operate on the pressure side of the intake...knowing how Germans think...no...it's not.
    Thinner air at higher temps, you may hit some sensor range limitations. Ya, the housing on the outside may be hot, but the sensor is sensing the air flow and temp of the air in the tube will cause a less dense air flow...so the sensor may not be as accurate as if fresh/not under hood intake air is coming in. If you have your air filter exposed to the exhaust side of your engine you are already introducing an inefficiency, you may want to focus instead on boxing it off and pipe in air from the outside....no matter where you put the MAF.
    Car companies don't make car parts under the hood just so there is something to look at (ok...besides the stupid covers Audi puts on shit)....there is engineered purpose behind the basic architecture of all the system components.
    The intercooler does not cool the charge air down to what it was coming into the air filter box, you can monitor the output of your intake temp sensor to see what it is under normal driving conditions.

    If you are going to do blow though, I recommend making sure you use a MAF designed for it and that it outputs signals the computer expects.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jputz View Post
    Having this dilemma right now.

    Did you try the blow through setup? If so how hard was it to tune?

    I am debating running this on my 97 AEB. Dont really want to go mafless.

    Thanks
    You don't have a choice, you can't go mafless with AEB management.
    Stupid drift A4

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobildetroit View Post
    To me it just sounds like you are creating a bunch of work for yourself and you will not yield any noticeable benefit...if you don't toss off system operation to begin with.
    Last thing I would want to be doing is disturbing Audi's shitty wiring harnesses to relocate the wires for the MAF.
    Also, is the MAF designed to operate on the pressure side of the intake...knowing how Germans think...no...it's not.
    Thinner air at higher temps, you may hit some sensor range limitations. Ya, the housing on the outside may be hot, but the sensor is sensing the air flow and temp of the air in the tube will cause a less dense air flow...so the sensor may not be as accurate as if fresh/not under hood intake air is coming in. If you have your air filter exposed to the exhaust side of your engine you are already introducing an inefficiency, you may want to focus instead on boxing it off and pipe in air from the outside....no matter where you put the MAF.
    Car companies don't make car parts under the hood just so there is something to look at (ok...besides the stupid covers Audi puts on shit)....there is engineered purpose behind the basic architecture of all the system components.
    The intercooler does not cool the charge air down to what it was coming into the air filter box, you can monitor the output of your intake temp sensor to see what it is under normal driving conditions.

    If you are going to do blow though, I recommend making sure you use a MAF designed for it and that it outputs signals the computer expects.
    It worked fine for me.....

    Stupid drift A4

    R.I.P RWD-converted '99 A4 Avant 1.8T

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobildetroit View Post
    To me it just sounds like you are creating a bunch of work for yourself and you will not yield any noticeable benefit...if you don't toss off system operation to begin with.
    Last thing I would want to be doing is disturbing Audi's shitty wiring harnesses to relocate the wires for the MAF.
    Also, is the MAF designed to operate on the pressure side of the intake...knowing how Germans think...no...it's not.
    Thinner air at higher temps, you may hit some sensor range limitations. Ya, the housing on the outside may be hot, but the sensor is sensing the air flow and temp of the air in the tube will cause a less dense air flow...so the sensor may not be as accurate as if fresh/not under hood intake air is coming in. If you have your air filter exposed to the exhaust side of your engine you are already introducing an inefficiency, you may want to focus instead on boxing it off and pipe in air from the outside....no matter where you put the MAF.
    Car companies don't make car parts under the hood just so there is something to look at (ok...besides the stupid covers Audi puts on shit)....there is engineered purpose behind the basic architecture of all the system components.
    The intercooler does not cool the charge air down to what it was coming into the air filter box, you can monitor the output of your intake temp sensor to see what it is under normal driving conditions.

    If you are going to do blow though, I recommend making sure you use a MAF designed for it and that it outputs signals the computer expects.
    I wasn't going to say anything but I don't want bad info floating around.

    HPX PMAS blow thru maf was the test subject. No maf limit within sight of what this engine is capable of.

    Wiring has already been extended /relocated for V8 maf in currently using.

    It doesn't care about how thick or thin, dense or loose, cold or hot the air is. The only thing it's measuring is flow. The IAT sends its own offsets depending on its own situation.

    I keep reading what you wrote and you clearly don't know wtf you're talking about.

    Charge temps are not an issue because I run a large intercooler, that keeps temps where they need to be (yes it will get hot after beating on it). Catch that? It cools the intake air. It's an intercooler. Big ol front mount. Hot intake air is not a concern, this engine will eat whatever.

    I recently tried using maestro to get this setup going, using a tial bov on the charge side, prior to the maf. I never could get the tune to run well,if at all. I contacted Eurodyne and their exact words were "that would be difficult". So if anyone has bright ideas I'm all ears.

  26. #26
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garytightpants View Post
    It worked fine for me.....

    V8 maf? Blow thru or draw through configuration?

    Cleaning up the turbo side of my engine is kinda the goal.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    V8 maf? Blow thru or draw through configuration?

    Cleaning up the turbo side of my engine is kinda the goal.
    Blow through. Itís there right before the throttle body. I had about 18Ē or so of the same diameter, straight tubing to help keep turbulence down. Only took very small corrections, it ran like any other pre-maf setup.


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    Stupid drift A4

    R.I.P RWD-converted '99 A4 Avant 1.8T

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Three Rings Rodgman15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garytightpants View Post
    Blow through. Itís there right before the throttle body. I had about 18Ē or so of the same diameter, straight tubing to help keep turbulence down. Only took very small corrections, it ran like any other pre-maf setup.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Then thanks be to you, again, for being the guy that tried it lol.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodgman15 View Post
    Then thanks be to you, again, for being the guy that tried it lol.
    I wasnít the first, people had used the vr6 maf, and stock maf before, as well as the HPX maf like you mentioned.


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    Stupid drift A4

    R.I.P RWD-converted '99 A4 Avant 1.8T



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