My first AR

[ShelbyM3]

Well I got over the Spider Hose debacle quite quickly and capped the intake manifold with a silicone cap.

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Started cruising along on putting the driver’s side together and did all the seals.

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Passenger side turned out to be a little different and we’ve reached a new crisis level...

First one of the dowel pins was lodged in the cam chain tensioner and came out of the head. Clearly one of my sources for breathing burned oil fumes on the regular. No biggie, I got it back in. You can see how the gasket was all wonky from being misaligned. Hopefully the cam chain tensioner isn’t marred up and seats the head well during reassembly.

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Then the real fun began. I had everything cleaned up real good, which only took like 2 hours because I have issues, and then I noticed it. My heart sank. Ugh!

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My wife noticed it almost looks like someone tried to put it back on by welding. Who knows. I’m ticked. Anyone got a passenger side BEL head they wanna give to me!? Hahaha, more to come. Thanks Audi!


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[m_haiser]

Ouch man that sucks

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[ShelbyM3]

At least I wasn’t driving when it broke off...but dammit all.
How hard is it to swap on 2.8 heads to my bottom end?


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[m_haiser]

Direct swap if I remember right but you'll lose low end power

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[ShelbyM3]

Never mind. Haha. Back to a replacement head. Still hunting.


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[m_haiser]

Yeah 2.8 heads move your powerband "to the right" or higher in rpm. They're beneficial if you have much larger turbos but not until then

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[kRussia]

I might have a decent shape 2.7 head for you. Let me check tomorrow


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[ShelbyM3]

I might have a decent shape 2.7 head for you. Let me check tomorrow


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That would be awesome. Thank you.


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[kRussia]

Sent you a DM


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[ShelbyM3]

After doing a little research would ya’ll confirm the consensus that pulling the head with the engine in the car is a nightmare and it’s so much easier with the engine out? Anyone done it still in the car?
I hadn’t planned on pulling the engine right now, but I have the ability to.


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[ShelbyM3]

Well thanks to kRussia for recommending Phil over at audis4parts, I have a head on the way.
Phil learned me things and told me the APB and BEL heads are identical, minus the SAI which I’m deleting, and the valve covers. Sweet! So he’s sending me out whichever one looks the best. He said they see BEL engines with APB heads all the time.

Now to begin the rest of the dismantling to pull the engine. I guess I’m playing the long game now.


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[mc_hotmail]

My heart sank. Ugh!

So for 3 years, you have never opened the valve cover, like replacing the cover gasket?

... pulling the head with the engine in the car is a nightmare and it’s so much easier with the engine out?

I don't think so. I replaced one side of my C5 Avant 3.0L V6 head gasket in place. It's not the same engine, but I don't see the need unless you need to do other things.

By the way, about your earlier complain about the crank lock pin, I replaced the timing belt on my 2001 AR and later my 2004 AR, both 2.7T, never get to use the lock pin, just too darn inaccessible. Also rework the cam shafts without it.

For the SAI, I serviced both by simply disassemble it down to the motor and fan blades, lube it and put it back together. The 01 AR SAI just seized and blew the 25A fuse due to dried out lubrication, so I knew exactly what to do with the 04 AR. Whoever gets your SAI should do this simple service.

[kRussia]

Glad it’s working out for ya ! Keep wrenching


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[ShelbyM3]

So for 3 years, you have never opened the valve cover, like replacing the cover gasket?



I don't think so. I replaced one side of my C5 Avant 3.0L V6 head gasket in place. It's not the same engine, but I don't see the need unless you need to do other things.

By the way, about your earlier complain about the crank lock pin, I replaced the timing belt on my 2001 AR and later my 2004 AR, both 2.7T, never get to use the lock pin, just too darn inaccessible. Also rework the cam shafts without it.

For the SAI, I serviced both by simply disassemble it down to the motor and fan blades, lube it and put it back together. The 01 AR SAI just seized and blew the 25A fuse due to dried out lubrication, so I knew exactly what to do with the 04 AR. Whoever gets your SAI should do this simple service.

Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out. I do have a lot of other things to do, but I hadn’t planned on doing them now. I wanted to have a clutch, flywheels, transmission’s bearings, and turbos in my possession before the official engine pull, but life rarely goes as planned with a C5. I’ve also got motor and transmission mounts.

Correct. I’ve never popped the valve covers off. I’ll be honest, I neglected the Allroad for a while. I knew she leaked oil and we just lived with it. Fire extinguisher, oil, and coolant in the car at all times. My project became my wife’s daily after her 540xi wagon got totaled and then life took over with houses and babies and ahhhhh!

This was my first lock pin experience. I’ve done timing jobs and one engine pull without it and never had any issues. Now that I’m older, have time, and a lift I thought I’d take a slower approach and be more diligent and careful. On the way out, I may pull the AC compressor or something. We’ll see, Allroads make everything a little more exciting.

Your description of servicing the SAI is exactly why I’m taking it out. To each their own. It is not necessary and seems like one more over-engineered VW product that will break and only become increasingly more difficult to service and find parts.


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[ShelbyM3]

Glad it’s working out for ya ! Keep wrenching


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Thank you again! Phil said the head I should get came off a motor that failed a compression test so hopefully it’ll be a perfect rebuild candidate.


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[rah253]

Wow just caught back up to your thread, you got quite a bit going on with the Allroad! The joy of the 2.7T i swear. 4 month ago mine started leaking coolant and i couldn't figure out from where. Added coolant twice and on the 9 days... overheating started to happen and i shut it off right away. Found the leak, right out of the water pump that was supposedly done with the timing belt 10K ago (got the car 7K ago). The water pump basically grenaded, bearing actually fell out and the timing belt was grinding against it. Long story short, i had my friend shop and certified Audi Tech (too busy with work and life for the past few month) do a full timing belt job, water pump and did a full top end seal including cams etc... The value o fthe car is not worth it but having such a different car with a manual makes it worth it for sure!

Good luck with the continuation of the project and bring on the updates!

[ShelbyM3]

Wow just caught back up to your thread, you got quite a bit going on with the Allroad! The joy of the 2.7T i swear. 4 month ago mine started leaking coolant and i couldn't figure out from where. Added coolant twice and on the 9 days... overheating started to happen and i shut it off right away. Found the leak, right out of the water pump that was supposedly done with the timing belt 10K ago (got the car 7K ago). The water pump basically grenaded, bearing actually fell out and the timing belt was grinding against it. Long story short, i had my friend shop and certified Audi Tech (too busy with work and life for the past few month) do a full timing belt job, water pump and did a full top end seal including cams etc... The value o fthe car is not worth it but having such a different car with a manual makes it worth it for sure!

Good luck with the continuation of the project and bring on the updates!

Dang, that sounds like it could have been a whole heck of a lot worse. Glad you got it sorted.

I fully agree on the uniqueness of our cars. This was a dream car as a kid, and now it’s just a labor of love. Good thing I have 2 other cars, though. Haha.


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[rah253]

Dang, that sounds like it could have been a whole heck of a lot worse. Glad you got it sorted.

I fully agree on the uniqueness of our cars. This was a dream car as a kid, and now it’s just a labor of love. Good thing I have 2 other cars, though. Haha.


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Forsure, i have other cars as well, but one of them i don't run daily, that would be a mistake as well lol.

[ShelbyM3]

Brief intermission. My lift developed a leak in one of the hydraulic lines off the pump. Twin Busch sent me out a new one and I installed it today. Should be back up and running and no longer terrified of going underneath to disconnect the driveshaft and exhaust bits.

Now hopefully the head will arrive soon so I can’t start disassembling everything.


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[rah253]

Brief intermission. My lift developed a leak in one of the hydraulic lines off the pump. Twin Busch sent me out a new one and I installed it today. Should be back up and running and no longer terrified of going underneath to disconnect the driveshaft and exhaust bits.

Now hopefully the head will arrive soon so I can’t start disassembling everything.


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glad you got that resolved as well. talking about the driveshaft, have you heard of these? https://www.jxbperformance.com/produ...arrier-upgrade i thinking about pulling the trigger on the preorder, for the Allroad and the RS6, it seems worth it.

[ShelbyM3]

rah253, when I saw the 2 piece design I yelled “Yes!” in my livingroom! I love you and hate you at the same time! I’m already in hot water over my routine maintenance that resulted in a new head and an engine pull, possibly new clutch while I’m in there, etc. My wife is 5 months pregnant and losing her patience with my hobbies
I have always suspected driveshaft issues in my Allroad, but I was so turned off by how difficult it seems to remove, disassemble the driveshaft itself, all while keeping it balanced, and yada yada yada. This is a total game changer for us C5 guys! I really want to take the plunge myself!
On that note, aren’t there 3 different driveshafts for the Allroad? Auto, Manual, and 4.2 Auto?


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[rah253]

rah253, when I saw the 2 piece design I yelled “Yes!” in my livingroom! I love you and hate you at the same time! I’m already in hot water over my routine maintenance that resulted in a new head and an engine pull, possibly new clutch while I’m in there, etc. My wife is 5 months pregnant and losing her patience with my hobbies
I have always suspected driveshaft issues in my Allroad, but I was so turned off by how difficult it seems to remove, disassemble the driveshaft itself, all while keeping it balanced, and yada yada yada. This is a total game changer for us C5 guys! I really want to take the plunge myself!
On that note, aren’t there 3 different driveshafts for the Allroad? Auto, Manual, and 4.2 Auto?


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Hahaha! Yeah sorry, i am a car guy and love to get better solutions for my cars if there is one out there, and i am with you on that with the drive shaft. some of the clunking that occurs time to time in my opinion is due to the play with the driveshaft but i am no expert at this either.

I know the A6 and Allroad from the C5 generation share the same length drive shaft on the manual box and the sub-frames are a little taller in the Allroad. i believe there is a difference from the manuals to the autos but again not sure. i will shoot the company an email to make sure on that!

Being pregnant does not help the wife with her patience i'm sure! luckily for me, i'm an older guy with now adult children and a wife that is a car girl herself!


EDIT**** Sent a message to JXB Performance for clarification on that. I'll share the results.

[ShelbyM3]

I totally agree. I’ve got it bad when disengaging the clutch and some back lash from off the throttle to on the throttle. I’ve already replaced the one rear differential mount with an OEM, and currently have Apikol rear differential mounts on the way to replace the other two that are more for side to side movement.

I thought we were well on our way, myself. We have a 15 year old already, but life is full of surprises.

Awesome! Definitely keep me posted, I got the green light if I really want it. Also, I’m pretty sure JXB is Audizine user jbullin2, or something to that effect. He and I talked years ago about my B8 S4 “Push to Start” issue as he had an extended slave fork for the B8. Knowing a little more about him helps me feel more assured in his products.


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[rah253]

I totally agree. I’ve got it bad when disengaging the clutch and some back lash from off the throttle to on the throttle. I’ve already replaced the one rear differential mount with an OEM, and currently have Apikol rear differential mounts on the way to replace the other two that are more for side to side movement.

I thought we were well on our way, myself. We have a 15 year old already, but life is full of surprises.

Awesome! Definitely keep me posted, I got the green light if I really want it. Also, I’m pretty sure JXB is Audizine user jbullin2, or something to that effect. He and I talked years ago about my B8 S4 “Push to Start” issue as he had an extended slave fork for the B8. Knowing a little more about him helps me feel more assured in his products.


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wow, yes life is definitely full of surprises! I don't know my reaction if mine was pregnant again ha ha! Glad you got the green light if needed, i need to bring it up to mine still, haven't talked to her about that one yet.

It is nice to know that JXB owner is part of this site, be great if he chimed in this discussion, but they were lightning fast and answered my email within a few hours! here it my email and reply:

Subject: C5 driveshaft carriers.

I own two C5 and i believe you might just have one of the best solution for the driveshafts in those cars. My question to you is the following. I am not sure if there is a difference in size of the driveshaft from and Auto to a Manual on the Allroad. Mine is a manual and i need to make sure it will work prior to ordering it, since the Auto are much more common. Could you help me with that. If it is irrelevant and they are the same, i will order 2, one for the Allroad and another for the RS6. Thank you!

Reply;

Hi there, We measured the Manual and Auto driveshafts and found the carriers were positioned in exactly the same spot. The only difference within the C5s was between the Allroad and the non Allroad, hence the separate fitments there.
Thanks, Jay.

So there you are, it looks like it works on the manual! i will be going home and talking to mine about this upgrade here shortly! I am also going to look at the Apikol rear mounts that you mentioned. If i am going to do it, mine as well DO IT. It will also give me a base line and a feel on the differences once completed on the Allroad and a little reinsurance that it will work on the RS6. I don't want to cut the OE carrier off the car if the solution is not working, but i'm sure it will, it makes so much more sense then the OE set up.

[ShelbyM3]

That’s awesome! Thank you for reaching out and sharing the info. Glad to know the carriers are the same. It must be overall length from auto vs manual that changes the shaft themselves. Makes sense.
You’re a smart man, experiment on the Allroad and save the RS6 until it’s a sure thing.


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[rah253]

That’s awesome! Thank you for reaching out and sharing the info. Glad to know the carriers are the same. It must be overall length from auto vs manual that changes the shaft themselves. Makes sense.
You’re a smart man, experiment on the Allroad and save the RS6 until it’s a sure thing.


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No problem, it's for me as well so always good to share info. And yes, i rather experiment on the Allroad, don't want to cut into the RS6, that and i drive the Allroad all the time so i'll get the feel and differences figured out fairly quick!

[ShelbyM3]

I pulled the trigger! Hopefully I’ll have this head debacle sorted by mid September and can give some feedback. I sent Jay a couple messages myself and his customer service is great. I decided to get both bushing options as it’s only $25 extra.


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[rah253]

I pulled the trigger! Hopefully I’ll have this head debacle sorted by mid September and can give some feedback. I sent Jay a couple messages myself and his customer service is great. I decided to get both bushing options as it’s only $25 extra.


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Nice, glad you got good communications with Jay. I have yet to pull the trigger on mine yet, the R53 Mini we have is taking priority now as it decided to give us a chocolate milk shake out of the coolant reservoir! Luckily, it is the oil cooler that gave up and not the head gasket! I had to order an new oil cooler, coolant, coolant hoses, radiator and an oil change kit. I went ahead and got a new belt for the supercharger as well since that area is coming apart anyways. Let me know the results of that set up if you get to it before i do, i will follow your example!

[ShelbyM3]

Dang! There’s no rest for the wrenchers!
I’ll definitely post my impressions and some install pics when I get it in.


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[ShelbyM3]

New to me head looks to be in really good shape, minus a couple exhaust studs. I’m stoked it came with cams, adjuster, sensor, etc.

To: Whoever packaged this,

You’re a badass.

Shelby

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[rah253]

New to me head looks to be in really good shape, minus a couple exhaust studs. I’m stoked it came with cams, adjuster, sensor, etc.

To: Whoever packaged this,

You’re a badass.

Shelby

IMG_2478.jpgIMG_2477.jpg


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Looks pretty good. You said APB heads? I never knew they were compatible with the BEL. Is yours early 2002 or later?

[ShelbyM3]

It’s a BEL head. I have an 03.
Originally I was told they’re the same minus the combi valves and I’d get the best out of the two options. After sleeping on it the next day I asked specifically for a BEL, just to keep continuity. I also have 034 block off plates and it just felt weird to only use one on the driver’s side head.


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[ShelbyM3]

Took a little getaway with my better half and mini me. Had a great time, but if anyone happens to see this and is debating putting a roof tent on a VW Alltrack, don’t. I thought our roof rails were going to buckle and hit the roof with us in the tent. VW kinda missed the mark on the rails for their off-roader, hahaha.

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Had some time to clean up my work area today. Always feels better after a good clean. I also started to strip the head. I can report that the journals all look solid. Yeow!

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I ordered new valve seals from IE last night and need to piece together the rest of the seals and gaskets from FCP and ECS, I imagine. Unfortunately I already have half of what comes in the “kits”. Unless someone knows a better retailer.

Any recommendations for manufacturers on head bolts, head gaskets, and exhaust studs/nuts?

Also, I’ve noticed some of the kits for a head replacement come with coolant hose
o-rings. Anyone know that part number? Something in the back of my mind tells me I need to replace these while I’m in there.
Thanks!



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[2.ohhh]

Don't forget cam cap bolts since you pulled the cams...one time use stretch bolts. I think I got mine from an Audi (or maybe VW?) dealer out of WA for about $1.06 a piece...52 needed to to the RS6..

Really adds up for an extra $.50 each depending on where you buy them....

[ShelbyM3]

Don't forget cam cap bolts since you pulled the cams...one time use stretch bolts. I think I got mine from an Audi (or maybe VW?) dealer out of WA for about $1.06 a piece...52 needed to to the RS6..

Really adds up for an extra $.50 each depending on where you buy them....

For reals? I’ve never heard of that. Is that RS specific I wonder? Ugh, add it to the list.


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[2.ohhh]

Not RS specific...same bolts used on lots of Audi and VW heads from 1.8's to 4.2's...

Here's what you need...not the cheapest source, I got mine for about $1.06 each from a VW dealer somewhere out west...

https://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pr...WHT002015.html

[ShelbyM3]

Thank you sir.


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[ShelbyM3]

Been waiting on parts to come in and time to get dirty. Also, there’s a fire. Well multiple fires. We have fires!
Had some time to disassemble the head from Phil at audis4parts. I’ve never done valve work, but this was pretty easy. I’m sure I’ll feel differently on the way back in

IMG_2563.jpgIMG_2554.jpgIMG_2556.jpgIMG_2562.jpgIMG_2558.jpg


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[Jay@JXB]

wow, yes life is definitely full of surprises! I don't know my reaction if mine was pregnant again ha ha! Glad you got the green light if needed, i need to bring it up to mine still, haven't talked to her about that one yet.

It is nice to know that JXB owner is part of this site, be great if he chimed in this discussion, but they were lightning fast and answered my email within a few hours! here it my email and reply:

Subject: C5 driveshaft carriers.

I own two C5 and i believe you might just have one of the best solution for the driveshafts in those cars. My question to you is the following. I am not sure if there is a difference in size of the driveshaft from and Auto to a Manual on the Allroad. Mine is a manual and i need to make sure it will work prior to ordering it, since the Auto are much more common. Could you help me with that. If it is irrelevant and they are the same, i will order 2, one for the Allroad and another for the RS6. Thank you!

Reply;

Hi there, We measured the Manual and Auto driveshafts and found the carriers were positioned in exactly the same spot. The only difference within the C5s was between the Allroad and the non Allroad, hence the separate fitments there.
Thanks, Jay.

So there you are, it looks like it works on the manual! i will be going home and talking to mine about this upgrade here shortly! I am also going to look at the Apikol rear mounts that you mentioned. If i am going to do it, mine as well DO IT. It will also give me a base line and a feel on the differences once completed on the Allroad and a little reinsurance that it will work on the RS6. I don't want to cut the OE carrier off the car if the solution is not working, but i'm sure it will, it makes so much more sense then the OE set up.

I’m late to the party, but at least I showed up! Always feel free to @jbullin2 me or shoot me an email at [email protected] or on Facebook I’m Jay Bullington.

allroad vs non-allroad...



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[ShelbyM3]

IMG_2548.JPG

She’s a solid unit! Excited to instal this!

Question for you Jay regarding bushings: how do I know which is which? I see them marked with F for front, but both sets of bushings look the same. Will the re-worked bushing be different colors or anything?



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