Check engine light is on

[Paul@SupremePower]

For clarity, does an MIL = a CEL? My guess is no. I'm on my first tank of gas (dealer supplied) and have an MIL. Called dealer who, after confirming it was yellow, rather than red, told me not to worry and that it would likely clear itself soon.
Obviously, am subscribed to thread.

Yep same thing these days. There used to be a distinction years ago.

Malfunction Indicator Light = Check Engine Light

[Krillien]

Just got a check engine light on the way home and a quick read with an OBD scanner (would have used ODBEleven, but it's so damned finicky connection wise) came up with the P21F5 code as noted in the diagnostics printout earlier in the thread.
Guess I'll be harassing the dealership when I get back from site



Which dealer was working this for you Krillien? Not that it should matter if it's a known issue with Audi Canada.

Royal oak Audi.

[Krillien]

Hi,

I know there's an update available for this fault codes: P21F500, P218700 and P21F800 all saying something about the fuel mixture too lean/Rich.. Ask Your dealer about a TPI :)

Hey thanks for the info, I just called my dealer to setup an appointment to see if the update can be applied to my car. Apparently updates like this aren’t available to all countries at the same time. Fingers crossed I can get this fixed though.

[Ducs_Of_Hazzard]

Royal oak Audi.

Who did you deal with there Krillien? I bought my Q7 off Vince Tran and found Royal Oak’s Customer Service to be way better than Glenmore Audi’s.

[Krillien]

Who did you deal with there Krillien? I bought my Q7 off Vince Tran and found Royal Oak’s Customer Service to be way better than Glenmore Audi’s.

Yep, Vince is the man! He sold me an S3 and then my RS3. Awesome guy.

[Krillien]

So I got an update from Royal Oak Audi - Canada does not have the update for fixing fault code P21F500.

[Paul@SupremePower]

So I got an update from Royal Oak Audi - Canada does not have the update for fixing fault code P21F500.

Did they give any reason for the DTC? Im hoping its strictly a coding/software issue on their end. Has this been addressed with an update outside of Canada ?

[Krillien]

Did they give any reason for the DTC? Im hoping its strictly a coding/software issue on their end. Has this been addressed with an update outside of Canada ?

Nothing more than their suspicion that the ECU isn't tuned correctly for north america, and given that I live in a high altitude (Calgary) it could throw AFR off. Nothing concrete.

It does look like an update is already available in Europe, based on fastolsen's post. Had to look up what TPI(technical product information) meant in North America, which is basically our version of the TSB.

[timzcat]

I'm hoping this was the cause of the port hold in Germany for the RS3 and TT RS produced in the last couple months. I hope there is a guy running around the lot updating the ECU so they can load my damn car. lol

[Paul@SupremePower]

Nothing more than their suspicion that the ECU isn't tuned correctly for north america, and given that I live in a high altitude (Calgary) it could throw AFR off. Nothing concrete.

It does look like an update is already available in Europe, based on fastolsen's post. Had to look up what TPI(technical product information) meant in North America, which is basically our version of the TSB.

Interesting. I range from sea level to 500 feet and have gotten this dtc several times over 3000 miles. Gah. Well as long as it’s a soft code for now I can deal with it until they sort it out.

[Paul@SupremePower]

Going in Friday for P21F5 bank 1 too rich off idle. See if there is a SW update.

[nesbit]

For clarity, does an MIL = a CEL? My guess is no. I'm on my first tank of gas (dealer supplied) and have an MIL. Called dealer who, after confirming it was yellow, rather than red, told me not to worry and that it would likely clear itself soon.
Obviously, am subscribed to thread.

In general they are used interchangeably, however MIL is more accurate since the code could come from the transmission as well. Either way that is a BS answer. At minimum they should scan it so they know what it is. I think this is the first MIL in the US.

[DOCEVG]

I think this is the first MIL in the US.

Dunno whether to be crushed or proud. My SA is researching issue; will report back with answer.
As I live at, and car is at, 7500 feet in elevation, I wonder if that is contributing to issue.

[Krillien]

At this point my dealer has reset my MIL 3 times already while we're waiting for a proper fix, I'm able to reproduce this code under the following circumstances:

- sport mode
- light throttle (<= 20%)
- approx. 3k rpm

My drive select is set to individual with all under Dynamic except Steering on Auto.

[Paul@SupremePower]

At this point my dealer has reset my MIL 3 times already while we're waiting for a proper fix, I'm able to reproduce this code under the following circumstances:

- sport mode
- light throttle (<= 20%)
- approx. 3k rpm

My drive select is set to individual with all under Dynamic except Steering on Auto.

So your throwing the too rich off idle code with a MIL?

[Paul@SupremePower]

Dunno whether to be crushed or proud. My SA is researching issue; will report back with answer.
As I live at, and car is at, 7500 feet in elevation, I wonder if that is contributing to issue.

I’m rarely over 300 feet and I get the code but no MIL.

[nesbit]

I’m rarely over 300 feet and I get the code but no MIL.

That usually means it's a pending code that will become a full code if the ECU confirms it. If can self clear before causing a live code.

[Krillien]

So your throwing the too rich off idle code with a MIL?

Yep

[Paul@SupremePower]

That usually means it's a pending code that will become a full code if the ECU confirms it. If can self clear before causing a live code.

I did get a MIL once with the code right after I picked the car up. Since then it’s been a soft code.
I gotta remember to check the fault frequency and reset counter before audi clears it to see what that says as a reference

[anthony0303]

Sadly my car is at the dealer for mil codes a well, sadly mine even went into limp mode. The dealer is saying fuel pump and it's of course not in stock! They are expecting part availability in 7-10 business days maybe from Germany. However I am still suspecting crap 93 has or they say it's 93. My car has 1034 miles on it.

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[Paul@SupremePower]

Sadly my car is at the dealer for mil codes a well, sadly mine even went into limp mode. The dealer is saying fuel pump and it's of course not in stock! They are expecting part availability in 7-10 business days maybe from Germany. However I am still suspecting crap 93 has or they say it's 93. My car has 1034 miles on it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app

For fucks sake. We’re you throwing the same too rich off idle code as everyone else?

[anthony0303]

For fucks sake. We’re you throwing the same too rich off idle code as everyone else?

I actually was lazy and didn't check the codes since the car is so new. I ran into this thread last night

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[Paul@SupremePower]

I actually was lazy and didn't check the codes since the car is so new. I ran into this thread last night

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app

Audi will have that info. If you could find out and post when you get her back that would be great.

[anthony0303]

Audi will have that info. If you could find out and post when you get her back that would be great.

Sure when I speak to them next. This has me a little irritated since now I'm worried what next and if doing anything to the car will allow them to void the warranty

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[Paul@SupremePower]

Sure when I speak to them next. This has me a little irritated since now I'm worried what next and if doing anything to the car will allow them to void the warranty

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Audizine mobile app

Well it’s not uncommon for there to be issues on a “new” platform. Even though the RS3 is based on MQB the engine revisions on the new 5 are significant.

The DTC issue could just be a software bug and your bad fuel pump just a faulty part although VAG has a history for shitty fuel pumps. I don’t think there’s any reason to panic yet. Personally I won’t tune a new car until after at least 10,000 miles to give things time to work out. Something new like this maybe longer depending on what others in our community are experiencing.

[Paul@SupremePower]

Went to audi. The code cleared itself. They had no info on an update. Wait and see I guess.
In other news this dealership is looking to tune APR in the next year. This place has been open for a month and I’m told it’s the largest dealership in the country right now. It’s really nice. Super customer focused. Hawthorne audi in Westchester County ny.

[jaro12]

Took the Car to Audi dealer for the third time to clear fault code P21F500, (2058 kilometer on the car) this time dealer changed my oil and filter due to fuel in the oil, I wonder if anybody have the same issue, SA claims there was gas odor coming from the oil, this is very troubling gas in the oil, this can be very bad for the motor and the turbo.

[Paul@SupremePower]

Took the Car to Audi dealer for the third time to clear fault code P21F500, (2058 kilometer on the car) this time dealer changed my oil and filter due to fuel in the oil, I wonder if anybody have the same issue, SA claims there was gas odor coming from the oil, this is very troubling gas in the oil, this can be very bad for the motor and the turbo.

Did they give any possible causes? Rings, bad injector, fuel pressure?
Gas in oil and too rich code isn’t good.

[BaltimoreCaesar]

I'm wondering if one of your injectors failed and is dumping fuel in your cylinder.

[Paul@SupremePower]

I'm wondering if one of your injectors failed and is dumping fuel in your cylinder.

Yeah I had an issue on my mk6 gti with the injector being stuck open. It was pretty blatant, misfires and a bunch of codes. Could even smell the gas in the cabin. If this is happening to a less obvious extent here it could be worse if undiagnosed due to thinning engine oil.

[jaro12]

Car runs good no other coder beside P21F500, dealer run all kind of tests, check spark plugs and cylinder walls for ware no issue there, thy open TAC with Audi and told me to drive the car.

[Paul@SupremePower]

Car runs good no other coder beside P21F500, dealer run all kind of tests, check spark plugs and cylinder walls for ware no issue there, thy open TAC with Audi and told me to drive the car.

Ok that’s good news. Please post any additional info.

[RezaWrex]

Took the Car to Audi dealer for the third time to clear fault code P21F500, (2058 kilometer on the car) this time dealer changed my oil and filter due to fuel in the oil, I wonder if anybody have the same issue, SA claims there was gas odor coming from the oil, this is very troubling gas in the oil, this can be very bad for the motor and the turbo.

I have the exact same issue. Audi has had the car since yesterday and are saying it's good to go now. They changed oil and filter too saying there was fuel in the oil as well as the too rich trim code. Another Canadian here.

[jaro12]

Did the dealer open TAC with Audi for your car? This is not normal for all this cars having this kind of issues from new. (Fuel in the oil) I wonder how many other cars with P21F500 code have fuel in the oil.

[Potatohead_RS3]

I would have to see a report of an actual fuel dilution problem before I would be concerned. Sniffing the oil doesn't mean anything. In order for fuel to get into the crankcase, passing all the rings you would have a serious rough running issue and/or serious mechanical problem, which nobody seems to have.

[OE2]

ive fueled up my oil in 4mins of free revving on a brand new motor. I was running too rich/too much ignition advance. It's possible to very quickly mess dump fuel into the crank case via idle.

A secondary check would be to change your oil again after 500 miles or ASAP when the code appears again.

[Potatohead_RS3]

ive fueled up my oil in 4mins of free revving on a brand new motor. I was running too rich/too much ignition advance. It's possible to very quickly mess dump fuel into the crank case via idle.

On a modern fuel injected vehicle, it's really not, unless there is something mechanically broken, which would lead to heaps of other issues depending on what it is.

Did the tech with the 'smell test' mention if the oil was overfilled?

[RezaWrex]

Did the dealer open TAC with Audi for your car? This is not normal for all this cars having this kind of issues from new. (Fuel in the oil) I wonder how many other cars with P21F500 code have fuel in the oil.

My dealer did open a case with Audi Canada who is well aware of the issue apparently. My dealer had 2 other cars in at the same time for the same issue (both RS3 and TTRS). They have seen multiple other vehicles with the same issue as well. They say the instructions from Audi Canada are to clear the fault and if it returns they will replace the injectors (1-2 week wait as they have to order from Germany).

[IceAero]

I wonder if this will become a TSB.

It sounds like the type of thing that could effect all of us...

I'm tempted to run it by the dealer just to see if a pending code is present.

[Paul@SupremePower]

I wonder if this will become a TSB.

It sounds like the type of thing that could effect all of us...

I'm tempted to run it by the dealer just to see if a pending code is present.

Mine cleared last week. Just checked again and now it’s pending.