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  1. #41
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdell View Post
    It’s not the caliper fitment but the height of the rotor hat. So a stock C6 A6 rotor w/ the Q5/Macan caliper should work. As you can see from my pic above, the height of the c6 rotors are taller than the S4/Q5 rotors. It’s probably hard to tell as both rotors were flipped upside down to show the height difference. Here’s an animated gif since I can’t upload the video.
    If it’s really that significant it may cause issues with the way the caliper works. The rotor should be centered between the pads. In theory if the offset is to skewed to one side you could get over-distention of the pistons.

    Does anybody have a picture of how the OE rotors sit with the Q5 Brembos mounted?


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  2. #42
    Senior Member Two Rings alexdell's Avatar
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    Finally got mine installed using the stock size 347mm rotors w/ the Macan calipers & new SS brake lines from the S4/Q5. Only issue is that the brake dust shields doesn’t fit w/ the calipers so the shop took it out. I’ll probably get new ones later on. Here’s a pic as a reference.

    IG: @puzoyAlex

    C6.5 A6 Avant Ibis White | KW V3's| H&R F+R Sways| XLR8 Dual Pulleys| EPL Stage 2 tune| S4Matty Ported SC+TB| APR CPS| JHM Downpipes| SkiGuard Roofbox|

    gone ---> B8.5 S4 Sepang Blue (6MT) |APR Stage 2+ UC|

  3. #43
    Established Member Two Rings fat's Avatar
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    OEM brake upgrade for 3.0T?

    Quote Originally Posted by alexdell View Post
    Finally got mine installed using the stock size 347mm rotors w/ the Macan calipers & new SS brake lines from the S4/Q5. Only issue is that the brake dust shields doesn’t fit w/ the calipers so the shop took it out. I’ll probably get new ones later on. Here’s a pic as a reference.


    Alex .. 6 months in, how are liking the macan 4 pot calipers ?

    If it’s as easy as swapping out lines, pads & calipers , this is a very practical performance upgrade. Thanks.


    Sent from my iPad using Audizine
    Last edited by fat; 08-05-2020 at 06:10 AM.
    ‘11 A6 prestige - stg2+ cts DP/3.141, d/O methanol, milltek axleback - Brembo 18z BBK - eibach 50/40, koni yellow, h&r sway, S6 20’s - flat bottom, black out, dual camera @vornebrakingsystems

  4. #44
    Veteran Member Three Rings a1dan_87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fat View Post
    Alex .. 6 months in, how are liking the macan 4 pot calipers ?

    If it’s as easy as swapping out lines, pads & calipers , this is a very practical performance upgrade. Thanks.


    Sent from my iPad using Audizine
    I second the question! Looking at brake upgrades myself. I live in a rocky mountain state at the base of some fairly pretty mountains. I frequently do some canyon runs that can be pretty hard on the brakes, and I'm looking for something to handle the heat better.

    Seems the consensus is that the Q5/Macan 4 pot calipers are a good option, and they fit with the OEM size/thickness rotors? However im assuming as it would be stock rotor size, you wouldn't be looking at better thermal management? Or would the calipers + slotted rotors make a difference?

  5. #45
    Registered Member One Ring
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    Very interested in the results as well...

  6. #46
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    This is a great thread; can't wait to get this done on my 3.0T wagon as well :D Thanks folks for all the infos.

  7. #47
    Junior Member Two Rings pele75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NASAudi View Post
    An S6 OE brake swap is where its at. 385mm brakes. I did it to my 3.0t.

    NASAudi
    What is the cost for this, does anyone know off the top of their head?


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    2010 A6 Avant Sport Pkg. | JHM ECU/TCU Stage 2 | JHM Downpipes | JHM Cat-back exhaust | JHM 207mm Pulley | JHM Snub Mount | JHM HeatX | JHM Throttle Body Inlet Hose | JHM Driveshaft Support Upgrade

  8. #48
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pele75 View Post
    What is the cost for this, does anyone know off the top of their head?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have a set of calipers, hawk pads and lines. 600 shipped to your door. 500 for calipers only

    PM me if you are interested. You will need to buy S6 discs.
    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  9. #49
    Junior Member Two Rings pele75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NASAudi View Post
    An S6 OE brake swap is where its at. 385mm brakes. I did it to my 3.0t.

    NASAudi
    Which rotors are these? Where could I buy them?


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    2010 A6 Avant Sport Pkg. | JHM ECU/TCU Stage 2 | JHM Downpipes | JHM Cat-back exhaust | JHM 207mm Pulley | JHM Snub Mount | JHM HeatX | JHM Throttle Body Inlet Hose | JHM Driveshaft Support Upgrade

  10. #50
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Bolted right on. Just can’t used the stock dust shields without some cutting


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  11. #51
    Junior Member One Ring Jeong Seongshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Dawg View Post



    Bolted right on. Just can’t used the stock dust shields without some cutting


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Hey. I saw the details you posted on Facebook. I'm also trying to choose between the Q5 or the Porsche Macan. Thanks. I'll ask you one question. Q5 Which of the two is lighter in the weight of the Brembo and Porsche Macan brakes?
    S.Korea A6 C6.5 3.0TFSI 2011y.
    JHMotosports Inlet Hose, Silicone, High-Flow .179mm Crank Pulley+57.06mm.
    (Expected)93Octan.Stage2 JHM (POWER CONNECT) ECU-TCU Flashing .

  12. #52
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeong Seongshin View Post
    Hey. I saw the details you posted on Facebook. I'm also trying to choose between the Q5 or the Porsche Macan. Thanks. I'll ask you one question. Q5 Which of the two is lighter in the weight of the Brembo and Porsche Macan brakes?
    Pretty sure the Macan Calipers are about 12 lbs and the Q5 are 9 lbs. I sacrificed 3 lbs for the cool factor :-)


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  13. #53
    Active Member One Ring
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    Quote Originally Posted by NASAudi View Post
    An S6 OE brake swap is where its at. 385mm brakes. I did it to my 3.0t.

    NASAudi
    Hi NAS are these a direct bolt on for the A6 C6 or is there anything else needed? Thanks.

  14. #54
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSAV View Post
    Hi NAS are these a direct bolt on for the A6 C6 or is there anything else needed? Thanks.
    From my research , you need S6 spindles as well for 09-11 C6. Previous years might be direct.


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  15. #55
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Can confirm that the brake calipers from RS6 C6 are plug and play for A6 C6 with 3.0TFSI ;)

  16. #56
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPETKOV View Post
    Can confirm that the brake calipers from RS6 C6 are plug and play for A6 C6 with 3.0TFSI ;)
    Good luck getting them.


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  17. #57
    Veteran Member Three Rings B. Rock's Avatar
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    Are you guys upgrading the master cylinder as well?
    09 A6 Avant 3.0t
    06 E350 4x4 Cummins swapped
    01 WJ rock toy

  18. #58
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Are you guys upgrading the master cylinder as well?
    I did not
    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  19. #59
    Active Member One Ring
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    Q5 Brembo

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Dawg View Post
    From my research , you need S6 spindles as well for 09-11 C6. Previous years might be direct.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi I may now go for the Q5 Brembo set up will these bolt straight onto my 2007 A6 C6? What exactly will I need to make these work? Thanks.

  20. #60
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    OEM brake upgrade for 3.0T?

    Quote Originally Posted by DJSAV View Post
    Hi I may now go for the Q5 Brembo set up will these bolt straight onto my 2007 A6 C6? What exactly will I need to make these work? Thanks.
    I don’t know about an 07 , the calipers require the 347mm rotors so if those are what you have then it is a direct bolt on.

    But I tough your fronts are Front rotors 320mm so the Q5 / Macan upgrade won’t fit. The S6 are a straight swap as far as I know though.


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  21. #61
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    This will give your more info.

    https://www.audiworld.com/how-tos/a/...cations-421920


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Dawg View Post
    I don’t know about an 07 , the calipers require the 347mm rotors so if those are what you have then it is a direct bolt on.

    But I tough your fronts are Front rotors 320mm so the Q5 / Macan upgrade won’t fit. The S6 are a straight swap as far as I know though.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Could I not just get the 347mm rotors and then this set up will work? Also do you need the Q5 lines or will the A6 C6 lines work on these calipers? Thanks.

  23. #63
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSAV View Post
    Could I not just get the 347mm rotors and then this set up will work? Also do you need the Q5 lines or will the A6 C6 lines work on these calipers? Thanks.
    You need the Q5 lines. I don’t know if you can mount the 347 or not, the issue is your spindles are different from the 3.0T so I don’t know if the calipers will bolt on correctly.


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOBERMAN@UA View Post
    345 30 rotors doesn't fit q5 calliper on c6?
    Hi what exactly is needed to fit the Q5 brembo calipers to an A6 C6? I've just bought a set of calipers thank you.

  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Dawg View Post
    You need the Q5 lines. I don’t know if you can mount the 347 or not, the issue is your spindles are different from the 3.0T so I don’t know if the calipers will bolt on correctly.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Apparently the S6 calipers bolt straight onto my car so I'm just hoping these Q5 calipers will bolt straight on.
    What model and year Q5 do I need the lines from? Thanks.

  26. #66
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSAV View Post
    Apparently the S6 calipers bolt straight onto my car so I'm just hoping these Q5 calipers will bolt straight on.
    What model and year Q5 do I need the lines from? Thanks.
    So you know , the S6 and Q5 calipers are totally different. I have a set of S6 ones. You need calipers from a 3.0t Q5. Not sure what years. ECS and fcp both have kits


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC Dawg View Post
    So you know , the S6 and Q5 calipers are totally different. I have a set of S6 ones. You need calipers from a 3.0t Q5. Not sure what years. ECS and fcp both have kits


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Awesome which is a better set up in your eyes the S6 or the Q5 brembo?

  28. #68
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSAV View Post
    Awesome which is a better set up in your eyes the S6 or the Q5 brembo?
    I went with the Macan calipers for the cool factor but the braking power of the calipers are about the same.

    These are the S6 ones I have for sale - includes pads and lines & should bolt up to your current rotors.
    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  29. #69
    Senior Member Three Rings dluxxx's Avatar
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    do you guys have specifics for what year Q5 or Macan? Don't wanna buy the wrong year.
    2010 A6 C6.5 3.0T, Remus Mufflers w/ Quad tips, Magnaflow Resonated X-Pipe, RocEuro Intake, EPL Stage 1, Transparent Gloss Copper Verde Axis V99 20x9, Michelin Pilot Sport 4S 265/30, Bilstein P14 PSS Coilover, H&R Rear Sway Bar, Ultra Racing Front Lower Brace, Ultra Racing Center Lower Brace, RS6 Black Gloss Grill, Rear diffuser, Black Vinyl window trim, Smoked Rear Tailights, Complete Interior LED Lights, Blacked out front sidemarkers, Morimoto 5000k D3S bulbs, SB3 Alpha Ceramic Coating.

  30. #70
    Veteran Member Three Rings DC Dawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dluxxx View Post
    do you guys have specifics for what year Q5 or Macan? Don't wanna buy the wrong year.
    Pretty sure any B8 Q5 with the 3.0T. For the Macan calipers , I bought for a 2015 with 345mm rotors.

    There is a full parts list in another thread I posted.

    https://www.harperautoparts.com/oem-...per-95b615123f
    https://www.harperautoparts.com/oem-...per-95b615124f


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    2009 A6 Avant 3.0T | Garnet Red / Black (1 of 9 in the US) Prestige | Cold
    EPL Stage 1 | Custom Exhaust w/ Quad Tips | ST Coilovers | H&R RSB | OEM 20" SQ5 Peelers | Porsche Macan Brakes | Roc-Euro | RS6ish Grill | C7 Shifter | EBay Puddle Lights | Euro Corner Markers | Ebay S6 Rear Valence | "AJ" Chrome Delete | OEM S6 seats | OEM S6 Door Blades | OEM S6 Grab Handles | OEM S6 Euro Sun Visors

  31. #71
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    Does anyone have the proper part number for the crossover line on the Q5 brembo calipers. i found a recently rebuilt set but they dont have the lines.
    thanks
    kilby

  32. #72
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Just a suggestion, you should ty to get a braided stainless steel set instead of OEM.

    Quote Originally Posted by kilby View Post
    Does anyone have the proper part number for the crossover line on the Q5 brembo calipers. i found a recently rebuilt set but they dont have the lines.
    thanks
    kilby

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewmin3m View Post
    Just a suggestion, you should ty to get a braided stainless steel set instead of OEM.
    i did order braided steel lines to the caliper. i am looking for the part number for the crossover line. the hard line that carries fluid from one side of the caliper to the other.

  34. #74
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Ahh nice :D cool.

    At the end maybe you can post a parts # list to have it on this thread as well :D

    Can't wait to see how it looks
    Quote Originally Posted by kilby View Post
    i did order braided steel lines to the caliper. i am looking for the part number for the crossover line. the hard line that carries fluid from one side of the caliper to the other.

  35. #75
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    looks like there is no replacement option offered by Audi. will call Porsche monday and see if they have an option for the macan. unfortunately this turned a cheaper rebuilt alternative into a still cheaper then new but more pain in the ass. oh well. i will post what i find from Porsche.

  36. #76
    Veteran Member Three Rings a1dan_87's Avatar
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    That brake upgrade is looking closer and closer for me. I need to do the brake fluid (Had it boil, whoops), and I think I had a pad or caliper that's sticking, so now is as good a time as any. Audi lists the 8R0615107G and 8R0615108G as for the A7/S7/RS7, Q5 and SQ5. 345mm brembo calipers, and this thread confirmed they fit OEM 347MM sized rotors.

    So consensus is, with new brake lines, that Q5/SQ5/Macan 4 pot brembo calipers will bolt straight up to our cars?

  37. #77
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by a1dan_87 View Post
    That brake upgrade is looking closer and closer for me. I need to do the brake fluid (Had it boil, whoops), and I think I had a pad or caliper that's sticking, so now is as good a time as any. Audi lists the 8R0615107G and 8R0615108G as for the A7/S7/RS7, Q5 and SQ5. 345mm brembo calipers, and this thread confirmed they fit OEM 347MM sized rotors.

    So consensus is, with new brake lines, that Q5/SQ5/Macan 4 pot brembo calipers will bolt straight up to our cars?
    Seems like it.

    I'm wondering if there is an adverse effect on braking system; if the calipers are designed for smaller rotors and you put a big one.

    Though as I'm writing i see the difference between the two is 2mm so i'm guessing it shouldn't be too bad.

    Where do people get the stainless steel lines ?

    Also does anybody know if the 4 pot brembo calipers wider than stock A6 calipers? I'm only asking to see if i would have to swap wheels or not...
    Last edited by ewmin3m; 09-20-2021 at 10:41 AM.

  38. #78
    Established Member Two Rings fat's Avatar
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    Hey, been meaning to reply to this tread for a while but got really sick, surgery, relapse, dr’s… life is finally getting better. This is literally the first time I’ve had a chance to get on the zine in a long while. Got a lot of reading to do.

    Anyway, there is an 18z option that bolts right up without mod’n the towers. It takes a bit of parts sourcing and milling of the mounts but the math works out and I have probably 7,000 miles on them now.
    I’ll gather up the build pics and specs and post back shortly.
    Not implying that this is any better than the Macon setup, just another option that works optimally with the OEM m/c

    These are some pics I found on tablet.
    Image1632496446.814039.jpg
    Image1632496532.042876.jpg
    Image1632496629.001576.jpg
    Image1632496922.906104.jpg



    Sent from my iPad using Audizine
    ‘11 A6 prestige - stg2+ cts DP/3.141, d/O methanol, milltek axleback - Brembo 18z BBK - eibach 50/40, koni yellow, h&r sway, S6 20’s - flat bottom, black out, dual camera @vornebrakingsystems

  39. #79
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 16 2020
    AZ Member #
    555289
    Location
    Bay Area CA

    What milling is required?

  40. #80
    Established Member Two Rings fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 18 2018
    AZ Member #
    419053
    Location
    Raleigh NC

    So the mill requirement is 4 mm @ the inside of caliper mounts.
    Few pics of the build I could find:

    Image1632836734.930179.jpg
    Image1632836799.090947.jpg
    Image1632836974.923413.jpg
    Image1632837043.793666.jpg
    Image1632837145.226936.jpg
    Image1632837238.140792.jpg
    Image1632837354.815763.jpg
    Image1632837431.591924.jpg
    Fab table notes:
    Image1632837687.893430.jpg
    Image1632837706.864073.jpg

    Will follow up with more specs shortly.



    Sent from my iPad using Audizine
    ‘11 A6 prestige - stg2+ cts DP/3.141, d/O methanol, milltek axleback - Brembo 18z BBK - eibach 50/40, koni yellow, h&r sway, S6 20’s - flat bottom, black out, dual camera @vornebrakingsystems

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