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  1. #121
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jimmy ny's Avatar
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    Either way. They say they have a piggyback but won’t release it.


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  2. #122
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy ny View Post
    They say they have a piggyback but won’t release it.
    Good enough reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR

    Haven't tested it enough
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  3. #123
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy ny View Post
    Rennchip puts the work on. APR has never had a piggy back. I don’t know why Dinan didn’t keep doing there own thing with Audi. But they bought APR and don’t want to compete against themselves. That would be bad unprofitable business.


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    Why start new development when you can buy an existing and established brand?

  4. #124
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jimmy ny's Avatar
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    Exactly.


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  5. #125
    Veteran Member Four Rings MilesM's Avatar
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    18 S4, 18 RS5, 15 SQ5
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    If the piggyback gets released, would it be subject to the same new drivetrain warranty as your stage 1 tunes?

  6. #126
    Active Member Two Rings
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    The APR S4 Development Car is Here!

    Jumping in on this one. APR tunes are amazing. I had it on my 2015 S3 sport back and installed it et 5000kms. At 19k I also installed the transmission tune. One nice hard run on putty road Windsor here in Australia and on way back got gearbox warnings lights etc. Car was f*KD it didn't engage gear it was mechanical gearbox failure. Went to Audi detuned car and towed to dealership. Warranty replacement on drive train.
    Got Apr ecu tune back only stayed away from transmission tune. Car then was sold private at 56,700 KMs for the new S4 I now have .

    Not sure if it was transmission tune or whatever but the ecu tune never let me down

    Several visits to Audi and two warranty items post tune (one was transmission other was the mechanism that controls the Quattro haldex gen 5 engagement mechanism messed up so far became perm fwd)

    Not sure if the transmission tune ruined it all but I did have the ecu tune put back and taken out five times in total in the life of the S3

    I know Apr head office know who I am..Guy at APR (whom left APR) was helpful

    If the S4 tune comes out soon I will definately check it out.

    Not sure now if I am to itch the balls and try the DTUK for a bit (since can take on and off) or just wait for the first Apr ecu tune.

    Not sure if dtuk on or off wud mess up my car as Apr puts it quite bluntly that the piggyback mess with signals and the real ecu I'm sure it's not that bad and pigggyback like dtuk is fine for those daily drivers who go highways and don't really track !!

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    Last edited by S4MB11013; 02-19-2018 at 02:34 AM.

  7. #127
    Established Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    The APR S4 Development Car is Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by S4MB11013 View Post
    Jumping in on this one. APR tunes are amazing. I had it on my 2015 S3 sport back and installed it et 5000kms. At 19k I also installed the transmission tune. One nice hard run on putty road Windsor here in Australia and on way back got gearbox warnings lights etc. Car was f*KD it didn't engage gear it was mechanical gearbox failure. Went to Audi detuned car and towed to dealership. Warranty replacement on drive train.
    Got Apr ecu tune back only stayed away from transmission tune. Car then was sold private at 56,700 KMs for the new S4 I now have .

    Not sure if it was transmission tune or whatever but the ecu tune never let me down

    Several visits to Audi and two warranty items post tune (one was transmission other was the mechanism that controls the Quattro haldex gen 5 engagement mechanism messed up so far became perm fwd)

    Not sure if the transmission tune ruined it all but I did have the ecu tune put back and taken out five times in total in the life of the S3

    I know Apr head office know who I am..Guy at APR (whom left APR) was helpful

    If the S4 tune comes out soon I will definately check it out.

    Not sure now if I am to itch the balls and try the DTUK for a bit (since can take on and off) or just wait for the first Apr ecu tune.

    Not sure if dtuk on or off wud mess up my car as Apr puts it quite bluntly that the piggyback mess with signals and the real ecu I'm sure it's not that bad and pigggyback like dtuk is fine for those daily drivers who go highways and don't really track !!

    Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
    So to be clear you did retain warranty after flashed back to stock? Regardless of the outcome, that’s encouraging for people who’d like to tune their cars.


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  8. #128
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    So to be clear you did retain warranty after flashed back to stock? Regardless of the outcome, that’s encouraging for people who’d like to tune their cars.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine

    There are a lot of people who have gotten the "TD1" flag despite being reflashed to stock. Do not count on maintaining your powertrain warranty if you get an ECU tune. I am not sure about about the possibility of a piggyback being detected if it is removed before going to the dealer.
    Last edited by mpatel1080; 02-19-2018 at 07:10 PM.

  9. #129
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    So to be clear you did retain warranty after flashed back to stock? Regardless of the outcome, that’s encouraging for people who’d like to tune their cars.


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    Nothing was mentioned outright but everyone knows deep down inside it was tunes and if warranty issues occured it's probably something linked to precious technical bulletins . I give full faith to service specialists I have dealt with at Audi they are outstanding customer service professionals and if warranty is required will assist where they can justify it (even if they know it was tuned)


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  10. #130
    Active Member Two Rings
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    How's things going with APR and the B9 S4 anyway ?

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  11. #131
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    They aren't.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  12. #132
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jimmy ny's Avatar
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    ?


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  13. #133
    Senior Member Two Rings moonlights4's Avatar
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    Wow. ECU must be a real bear to crack.


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  14. #134
    Established Member Two Rings
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    So are you guys just stalled? Or have you suspended R&D on the platform and tune entirely?

  15. #135
    Veteran Member Four Rings raudiace4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    They aren't.
    Such great support, communication and feedback to potential customers Arin! I wonder why more people don't choose APR over GIAC, EPL, UNITRONIC etc..
    Current: 2017 C63s Coupe
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  16. #136
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonlights4 View Post
    Wow. ECU must be a real bear to crack.
    Yeah, it's not easy! Still at it, but as we said before, it's going to be a while till there's a sudden breakthrough.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  17. #137
    Veteran Member Three Rings Cherub's Avatar
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    👀 I’m here for it 😂

    What’s most interesting aside the release of the tune, those who cannot wait for clear and concise R&D to receive a quality product will be the first to buy the tune product whenever it comes out. Sit down and be humble


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  18. #138
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    You only need to look at history. The B8 platform had 3 ECUs, the SIMOS 8.4, 8.4 and 16. The time taken to crack each version was measured in years, not months. Enough people have suggested that that Bosch MG1 ECU could be harder to crack than those SIMOS ECUs for there to be some truth there. APR started this thread on 07-25-2017 and stated that they had only had the car a few months, so they haven't had it a year yet. Anyone who wants to be driving around in a 500HP S4 should be in a tuned B8, and then buy a B9 AFTER the ECU has been cracked.
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  19. #139
    Veteran Member Four Rings vdubjetta02's Avatar
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    With these ECU's could you just source a good local dyno tuner and have a custom map written? I know people have custom maps on both B8 A4's and S4's
    CURRENT:
    APR - B8 A4 Avant
    2008 - 4Runner

  20. #140
    Senior Member Three Rings HurrayFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdubjetta02 View Post
    With these ECU's could you just source a good local dyno tuner and have a custom map written? I know people have custom maps on both B8 A4's and S4's
    Yup, if you could find a shop that knows what they're doing and has had a B9 to play with already, which is unlikely. This ECU can only be bench flashed so far, meaning it has to be removed from the car and flashed directly. Nobody has found a workable exploit to take command of the ECU via OBD for the MG1 yet, and if anyone does, it's likely going to be APR first, simply because they actually have the R&D funding to put into it. Once (if) APR figures out an exploit, the other offerings will come from other vendors, utilizing the same exploit.

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  21. #141
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    No one can bench flash the ECU either.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  22. #142
    Active Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    No one can bench flash the ECU either.
    Someone in Syd said they can though

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  23. #143
    Senior Member Three Rings HurrayFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    No one can bench flash the ECU either.
    Sure they can, Bosch and Audi seem to do just fine

    Someone in Syd said they can though
    Yes, I heard MMS was able to bench flash and (obviously wrongly assumed) APR could as well. Could still be quite a while if we don't even have a bench flash yet!

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  24. #144
    Veteran Member Four Rings will13k7's Avatar
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    I think it wasn't until late-2012/early-2013 that the B8 S4 was port flash-able... I'll check this thread again in 2021.

  25. #145
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4MB11013 View Post
    Someone in Syd said they can though
    they can't.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  26. #146
    Active Member Two Rings
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    APR is probably up against a tough crypto problem. They may never crack it, especially if there is session based security in the box. The car is plenty fast as is. Just install a rear sway bar then good to go.

  27. #147
    Veteran Member Four Rings Jimmy ny's Avatar
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    Agree with rear swaybar. Eventually they will get in. I lease. So I need something now to get moneys worth.
    Or I’m gonna leave alone and trade for RS5 next year.


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  28. #148
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with piggybacks. While I personally have had APR tunes on my cars going back to my B5 S4, 2 of the most prominent Audi tuners worldwide have gone to piggybacks. Those companies are MTM and ABT. As long as they work, and are reliable, who cares how the power is produced. And piggybacks can just be unplugged.

    Also, ECUs are getting harder to crack, but cars are also being pushed to much higher levels of tuning from the factory. There isn't much room to safely play anymore. My 2000 B5 S4 had a stock 250hp from its 2.7L TT motor. Now Audi pushes out 450hp from 0.2L more displacement (And that is the published figure. The actual amount may be more). A B5 2.0T motor produced 150hp. The 2.0T motor in my wife's S3 makes exactly double that amount. Just sayin'.
    Last edited by VVG; 03-10-2018 at 02:03 PM.
    Currently: Audi S6 * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  29. #149
    Veteran Member Four Rings A4 Centaur's Avatar
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    I have Piggy Back on my Ducati, and will most likely do the same for the V6 Turbo in either the B9 S4 or Macan GTS.

    Looks like at least there are some options by now:

    https://rennchip.com/products/audi-s4-b9-power-box

    https://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/S4...?FZID=S4B9260Q
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  30. #150
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    Nothing wrong with piggybacks. While I personally have had APR tunes on my cars going back to my B5 S4, 2 of the most prominent Audi tuners worldwide have gone to piggybacks. Those companies are MTM and ABT. As long as they work, and are reliable, who cares how the power is produced. And piggybacks can just be unplugged.

    Also, ECUs are getting harder to crack, but cars are also being pushed to much higher levels of tuning from the factory. There isn't much room to safely play anymore. My 2000 B5 S4 had a stock 250hp from its 2.7L TT motor. Now Audi pushes out 450hp from 0.2L more displacement (And that is the published figure. The actual amount may be more). A B5 2.0T motor produced 150hp. The 2.0T motor in my wife's S3 makes exactly double that amount. Just sayin'.
    And still the stock 400hp rs3 is pushing 750hp without any internal engine upgrades.


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  31. #151
    Established Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by context.eax View Post
    And still the stock 400hp rs3 is pushing 750hp without any internal engine upgrades.


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    My SA told me that they’ve heard of five 2.5t motors popping already


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  32. #152
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez136 View Post
    My SA told me that they’ve heard of five 2.5t motors popping already


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    Really??? I'm not saying it didn't happen but I've yet to hear of a single one on all the forums and FB groups I follow. Those same people who would be modding motors would be enthusiast on these car forums and would have no shame in posting about a blown motor. Just saying seems a little odd he's claiming that.

  33. #153
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by context.eax View Post
    And still the stock 400hp rs3 is pushing 750hp without any internal engine upgrades.


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    There is no RS3 out there making 750hp without a new turbo. I guess a turbo swap is not an "internal upgrade", but it is still much further than most people are willing to go. Also those numbers are on race fuel.

  34. #154
    Established Member Two Rings Nez136's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -LoneStar- View Post
    Really??? I'm not saying it didn't happen but I've yet to hear of a single one on all the forums and FB groups I follow. Those same people who would be modding motors would be enthusiast on these car forums and would have no shame in posting about a blown motor. Just saying seems a little odd he's claiming that.
    Just what he told me. Not just the rs3. He said 2 TTRS’s and 3 RS’s. Said he knows one was modded for sure so idk. This could be dealership grapevine talk.


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  35. #155
    Senior Member Three Rings arrivalanche's Avatar
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    So is it safe to say we can officially end this thread?
    -AARON-

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  36. #156
    Senior Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpatel1080 View Post
    There is no RS3 out there making 750hp without a new turbo. I guess a turbo swap is not an "internal upgrade", but it is still much further than most people are willing to go. Also those numbers are on race fuel.
    Its on e75 and yes, its with a turbo upgrade, dp, ic, fueling and tune which gave 667 whp.

    Stock turno, dp, ic and tune is about 450whp on 93 oct.

    I did a turbo swap in my a4 and in the near future I will also do the same on my rs3.

    Point is that with the strict emissions regulation they need to under power these engines so there will be allot to gain with a tune.
    The same will probably be for the s4 and you should all have an existing future closing in.


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  37. #157
    Veteran Member Four Rings VVG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by context.eax View Post
    And still the stock 400hp rs3 is pushing 750hp without any internal engine upgrades.


    Sent from my iPhone using Audizine
    Well let's see how long those motors last over time. If any kind of longevity is a concern, I wouldn't be trying to get that kind of power from 2.5L of displacement.
    Currently: Audi S6 * Audi S3 * Porsche Cayman GTS

  38. #158
    Veteran Member Four Rings ENV˛'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    They aren't.
    Interesting. you guys dont have the proper funding to get this done or is it that you refuse to do a piggyback option and cant quite crack the code o a true flash?

    Most dont want a flash anyway they prefer piggyback. BMS seems to be working it out. I wish COBB would work on these and allow extra custom tuning via accssport. Then this platform would soar.
    2012 CTS-V 6MT WAGON - Corsa Sport/AirRaid/GreenFilter/2.4 Griptech/ID 1050x Injectors/Weapon X Track Attack HX/Moroso Catch Can/ARH Longtube Headers/Core Short Shifter/Speidell Supercars Tuned 605WHP/618WTQ
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  39. #159
    Senior Member Three Rings HurrayFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VVG View Post
    Well let's see how long those motors last over time. If any kind of longevity is a concern, I wouldn't be trying to get that kind of power from 2.5L of displacement.
    Yiss this. Audi already has a documented motorsport upgrade path for the newest 2.5L, the stock internals retain their efficiency rating up until about 500HP.

    People see someone put down a big number and go, "See? They made X". If your air/fuel mix is right, of course they did, it's simple math. It has nothing to do with the fact that you've now taken a stock engine that's been engineered to be flogged endlessly for at least 100K miles and shortened its life span by half or more. Stock 8V S3's were putting down 450HP+ with swapped turbos for thousands of miles...until they didn't. Absolutely nothing wrong with that (it's fun), just know the reality.

    2017 Chevy Colorado V6 Z71 4x4 - Trifecta Tune - S&B CAI - Corsa Exhaust - RC Bully & Nerf Bars - RC 1" Leveling Kit
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  40. #160
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by HurrayFive View Post
    Yiss this. Audi already has a documented motorsport upgrade path for the newest 2.5L, the stock internals retain their efficiency rating up until about 500HP.

    People see someone put down a big number and go, "See? They made X". If your air/fuel mix is right, of course they did, it's simple math. It has nothing to do with the fact that you've now taken a stock engine that's been engineered to be flogged endlessly for at least 100K miles and shortened its life span by half or more. Stock 8V S3's were putting down 450HP+ with swapped turbos for thousands of miles...until they didn't. Absolutely nothing wrong with that (it's fun), just know the reality.
    Same thing happened with the B5 S4. People were chipping them and then blowing the turbos and were getting everything replaced under warranty.

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