Push to Start Issue? Official Extended Slave Cylinder Thread (aka Ghetto Spacer Fix)

[Krusty]

Hey guys, I’ve been experiencing this issue since I replaced my gearbox and I had my clutch replaced by Audi back in February.

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind using the extended slave, and clearly have plenty of testimonials in this thread that show it fixes the issue, I always come back to the same question that I can’t seem to get an answer to no matter who I ask or which thread I read:

Why did this issue not exist prior to Audi replacing my clutch?

I never had the issue in the 50k+ miles I drove my A5, from 55k to 105k miles. I took it to Audi and had a new OEM clutch + DMF put back in and Audi gave me back the car with this issue. I can’t get my head round WHY. What changed?!

Don't have the answer for you, however, I can tell you that extended slave rod is the permanent fix.

[RoseJ22]

Jay, You still selling these? If so PM me price shipped to 24370. Thanks!

[Sleeper Sedan]

Jay, I'm looking for one as well. Changed the slave under warranty 3 years ago, Changed to USP stainless steel lines 1 year ago, had the push button issue last year then it resolved, and now its back requiring even more pressure all the way to the floor to start the car.

Shipped to 33067. Thanks!

[RoseJ22]

www.jxbperformance.com for all future needs.

[RockJGC]

This is a great thread. I'm actually considering going the other way and slightly shortening my slave cylinder rod. Here's why---A few months ago I installed a SouthBend Stage 2 clutch along with an OEM dual mass flywheel. Everything works perfectly and the clutch feels exactly like stock. But that's the problem--I never really liked the high engagement point on my stock clutch in the first place. I prefer an engagement point that is more toward the middle of the clutch pedal travel rather than engaging toward the top of the pedal travel. And when I installed the Southbend unit, it behaved exactly like the OEM clutch, engaging way up high in the clutch pedal travel.

So my idea is to remove the slave cylinder rod and shorten it by a few millimeters. The theory is that I will change the engagement point of the clutch to be a little lower in the clutch pedal travel. My only real concern is that I'd end up causing issues getting the car to start like everyone is describing here. But I don't have any issues whatsoever now, so maybe I'll be okay.

Thoughts?

[SteveYem]

In my 2015 S4 6MT I had a stainless clutch line installed a few years ago and I'm pretty sure that's the point when the car became more difficult to shift. And it may be placebo but it seems like the clutch doesn't fully disengage unless I get the pedal all the way down to the floor. One indicator of this (I think??) is that when I am looking at the instantaneous gas mileage readout, if I shift 'normally' as far as clutch pedal travel is concerned, the readout does not change when I shift; however if I very deliberately push the pedal literally as far as it will go, the readout will momentarily go to ' - - ' (no reading) while I shift, and then resume reading out a value when I get into the next gear.
I have also notice that there is apparent lag in the throttle response, regardless of drive select mode, when I start to give it gas while letting the clutch pedal out, i.e. when starting out in 1st gear from a stop. I am wondering if the ECU is reading the clutch position from the Hall effect sensor in the master cylinder (and someone please correct me if I am making any of this up) and it's not getting the reading it wants, thereby affecting throttle response? This may also be placebo but it seems that if I very deliberately mash the clutch as far as it will go (hurting my foot) then the throttle response is more immediate as I would expect it to be - but if I start out with the clutch pedal in a more normal position applying a civilized amount of force to it, i.e. not putting a dent in the floor board, this throttle hesitation exists.

So - I've been dealing with it for a few years and it really saps the driving experience. Any idea whether the extended slave cylinder would solve any of these issues? Or does this sound indicative of hydraulic lines that need to be bled? Or Both?

To clarify, I have never experienced the "push to start" issue, and all things considered I don't wail on this car so at 76k miles currently I doubt the root issue is a worn/failing clutch, also considering that these symptoms started at around 40k miles.

[greenturbo]

For slow throttle response just get a pedalbox or Sprintbooster

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[SteveYem]

For slow throttle response just get a pedalbox or Sprintbooster

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Slow may not be the right word - it may be more an issue of how far I have to push the gas pedal until I get any throttle activity. I would estimate that within the first 1/4" of travel of the pedal, nothing happens. Maybe that's a separate issue - in any case, I have a stage 1 tune so I don't think I'd want to stack something like a Sprintbooster on top of that. It also does seem that there is still a clutch engagement point vs. pedal position issue, maybe mutually exclusive from a throttle mapping issue which only makes the clutch engagement issue more noticeable.

[WettRally]

The extended slave will not fix a self adjusting issue rather a clutch replacement would fix that? Right now my car will not start and I am getting "push to start" message. I have stock clutch and stock slave. If I install the JXB extended I should be good??

[Jay@JXB]

The extended slave will not fix a self adjusting issue rather a clutch replacement would fix that? Right now my car will not start and I am getting "push to start" message. I have stock clutch and stock slave. If I install the JXB extended I should be good??

The extended slave will fix your problem. It doesn’t stop the SAC mechanism from continuing to overadjusting, but that’s not an issue of the extended slave is compensating for it.

Just to confirm, has this problem come on over time for you, or did it happen immediately after some work was done on the car?


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[WettRally]

The extended slave will fix your problem. It doesn’t stop the SAC mechanism from continuing to overadjusting, but that’s not an issue of the extended slave is compensating for it.

Just to confirm, has this problem come on over time for you, or did it happen immediately after some work was done on the car?


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I bled my brakes after changing all my pads. It would not start after that, I then bled the slave but same thing.

[Jay@JXB]

Gotcha. So the car won’t start no matter how hard you press?

If that’s the case you likely dislodged the sensor from the side of the master cylinder. It sits near the slave line attachment. You can get in there with a long flat screwdriver and push it towards the driver side to reseat it. It’s extremely common for it to become slightly dislodged, then it’s too far to read the position of the clutch pedal to allow the car to start. If you could start it fine before now all of a sudden can’t start it at all, it’s 100% either that sensor is dislodged or unplugged. There’s literally nothing else it could be. That start sensor is 100% reliant on the clutch pedal traveling all the way to the floor and that sensor reading the position of it.


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[WettRally]

Gotcha. So the car won’t start no matter how hard you press?

If that’s the case you likely dislodged the sensor from the side of the master cylinder. It sits near the slave line attachment. You can get in there with a long flat screwdriver and push it towards the driver side to reseat it. It’s extremely common for it to become slightly dislodged, then it’s too far to read the position of the clutch pedal to allow the car to start. If you could start it fine before now all of a sudden can’t start it at all, it’s 100% either that sensor is dislodged or unplugged. There’s literally nothing else it could be. That start sensor is 100% reliant on the clutch pedal traveling all the way to the floor and that sensor reading the position of it.


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Got it, I will check now. No matter how hard I press It will not start. To note I did take the ECU tray partially out to unclog and clean out leaves a week ago but everything was fine after. That tray def had standing water in it. The sensor is in that area?

[WettRally]

Gotcha. So the car won’t start no matter how hard you press?

If that’s the case you likely dislodged the sensor from the side of the master cylinder. It sits near the slave line attachment. You can get in there with a long flat screwdriver and push it towards the driver side to reseat it. It’s extremely common for it to become slightly dislodged, then it’s too far to read the position of the clutch pedal to allow the car to start. If you could start it fine before now all of a sudden can’t start it at all, it’s 100% either that sensor is dislodged or unplugged. There’s literally nothing else it could be. That start sensor is 100% reliant on the clutch pedal traveling all the way to the floor and that sensor reading the position of it.


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I also ran a clutch connectivity test and I'm seeing it change from 1 to 0 as I push the pedal

[WettRally]

Gotcha. So the car won’t start no matter how hard you press?

If that’s the case you likely dislodged the sensor from the side of the master cylinder. It sits near the slave line attachment. You can get in there with a long flat screwdriver and push it towards the driver side to reseat it. It’s extremely common for it to become slightly dislodged, then it’s too far to read the position of the clutch pedal to allow the car to start. If you could start it fine before now all of a sudden can’t start it at all, it’s 100% either that sensor is dislodged or unplugged. There’s literally nothing else it could be. That start sensor is 100% reliant on the clutch pedal traveling all the way to the floor and that sensor reading the position of it.


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TY sir!

[SteveYem]

I am not getting the push-to-start issue, but I have noticed that it is more difficult to get the car into gear (particularly 1st gear), and it also feels like I have to put the clutch pedal all the way to the floor (like mashing my foot against the floor) in order to get a clean disengage/re-engagement. Does this sound like something the extended slave will remedy?

For reference, the car is 2015 6MT with ~77k miles, Stage 1 tune but not driven very aggressively. I would have a hard time believing it's the clutch itself wearing out, but am open to any suggestions for improving my driving experience!

[SteveYem]

I am not getting the push-to-start issue, but I have noticed that it is more difficult to get the car into gear (particularly 1st gear), and it also feels like I have to put the clutch pedal all the way to the floor (like mashing my foot against the floor) in order to get a clean disengage/re-engagement. Does this sound like something the extended slave will remedy?

For reference, the car is 2015 6MT with ~77k miles, Stage 1 tune but not driven very aggressively. I would have a hard time believing it's the clutch itself wearing out, but am open to any suggestions for improving my driving experience!

Bumping for input!

[jdyeah]

Bumping for input!

your symptoms could have numerous potential causes but to me it sounds like one of your clutch cylinders could be going bad (if you replace one, replace both).

It could also be your shift lever. Your shift lever mechanism may need to be greased and adjusted. If the lever is seizing up, it could cause an inability to get things into gear, usually not just one gear though, usually it will make it hard to get into a couple of gears

[S4Gibbs]

I was 100% sold on buying the JXB extended slave after reading this thread, but then I saw the current price at $140.

Has anyone had any success/trouble with just dropping a 3/16" ball bearing into the end of the slave rod? Any stories/worries about the bearing getting dislodged and falling out?

[jimrobbington]

I was 100% sold on buying the JXB extended slave after reading this thread, but then I saw the current price at $140.

Has anyone had any success/trouble with just dropping a 3/16" ball bearing into the end of the slave rod? Any stories/worries about the bearing getting dislodged and falling out?

Lol, peace of mind is priceless buddy.

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[S4tranquility]

I was 100% sold on buying the JXB extended slave after reading this thread, but then I saw the current price at $140.

Has anyone had any success/trouble with just dropping a 3/16" ball bearing into the end of the slave rod? Any stories/worries about the bearing getting dislodged and falling out?

$140 is a bargain!

[jdyeah]

I was 100% sold on buying the JXB extended slave after reading this thread, but then I saw the current price at $140.

Has anyone had any success/trouble with just dropping a 3/16" ball bearing into the end of the slave rod? Any stories/worries about the bearing getting dislodged and falling out?

If you are trying to save as much as possible I'd have a new rod made / cut before I would put a ball bearing in there.

[vwlippy]

Is this extended slave a permanent fix or just temporary until the clutch needs to adjust again?

[derektt]

Is this extended slave a permanent fix or just temporary until the clutch needs to adjust again?

Its permanent, until the slave goes out which they do on all manuals at some pt. When that happens, just save the rod and use it in your new slave cylinder.

[S4Gibbs]

$140 is a bargain!

I don't know if I'd call $140 a bargain, but I realized that it was unfair to ask for cheap alternatives in this thread... Didn't realize Jxb was the OP in here until now.

JXB's extended slave is clearly still the best option on the market to fix this issue, and still be able to sleep without worry of a projectile ball bearing.

[Cactus Avant]

Just wanted to add my experience. I have a stock clutch and had to push my foot through the floor to get the car to start. I installed the extended slave from JXB and my starting problem is gone

[AudiSport12]

Cactus, you join the B8 party as well?


Ext slave solved my push to start issue as well. Still have a squishy clutch pedal that I have to pick up off the floor after rowing through the gears at WOT. Not sure what's causing that.

[Cactus Avant]

Cactus, you join the B8 party as well?


Ext slave solved my push to start issue as well. Still have a squishy clutch pedal that I have to pick up off the floor after rowing through the gears at WOT. Not sure what's causing that.

Absolutely. I got a b8.5 about a year and a half ago. I realized I couldn't be dailying a 4.2 swapped B5 that was so highly modified anymore lol. I love the B8.5 so much, the B5 sits in the garage most the time, but it needs so much work done to it. The B8.5 is already so much faster and I've barely modded it...

[ponyboy2000]

How quickly can I get one of the extended slaves to the UK?

Thanks. This has been really helpful.

[ZGskibum]

Just want to quickly chime in on behalf of JBX and his extended slave. I had push-to-start issue after installing SB stg III Enduro kit. Drove on it for a while until the force I was putting on my clutch pedal at startup blew my slave. JBX fabbed a new unit for me—same day—with an extra-long rod. Completely fixed the issue.

Couldn’t be happier with the product or service.


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[Jay@JXB]

How quickly can I get one of the extended slaves to the UK?

Thanks. This has been really helpful.

I ship direct to the UK it takes 2-3 days


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[john.aune]

My B8 S4 had the push to start now and then, running an stage 2 clutch, suddenly one night i probably pushed to hard and something snapped and clutch stuck in floor.

Took it to Audi which said it was the slave, they put in an oem slave and i went to pick up the car. Car started and clutch felt good, however my power steering was gone?
Went straight back to the shop and they were acting all confused, after 1 hour of waiting the mechanic wanted to look at it so i drove it behind their shop, he connected his computer and from then on it wouldnt even start.
He got it running by doing something near the fuse box i cant tell what he did, but they took it in to their shop again.

Got a call the next day and they were talking about wanting to lower gearbox etc to start looking at the clutch and whatever, but they made it sound like they had the car running so went back to pick it up only to have it 100% not start with the push pedal to start constantly.
Now they are only talking about replacing the full clutch kit, bleeding all my money with no guarantee of it fixing the issue.
iv tried bringing up this extended slave as an idea for them and to check the censor near master slave(if they didnt get it fitted propperly whilst doing the slave) but doesnt feel like they listening to me at all.

[john.aune]

Update: i took the car to another shop and explained the extended slave solution, they had a look at the car and made their own extended slave, so they got the car running. They deleted all fault codes which the audi shop hadnt done, which came from disassembyling the steering unit. Car starts without problems and power steering is back, its probably time for a clutch replacement soon tho as it shows symptomps of wear.

[lexcruiser]

I just ordered one from JBX. Is the extended slave something to put in, in advance of having any issues?
May consider replacing my clutch soon (54k miles on factory clutch, still running perfect) and considering having the extended slave installed at the same time.. thoughts?

[AudiSport12]

Not really necessary unless you’re having the push to start issue. But if you have it ordered already, may as well throw it on when replacing the clutch. Pretty simple install if you have a pressure bleeder.


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[JudeA5Quattro]

Hey guys, I’ve been experiencing this issue since I replaced my gearbox and I had my clutch replaced by Audi back in February.

Whilst I understand the reasoning behind using the extended slave, and clearly have plenty of testimonials in this thread that show it fixes the issue, I always come back to the same question that I can’t seem to get an answer to no matter who I ask or which thread I read:

Why did this issue not exist prior to Audi replacing my clutch?

I never had the issue in the 50k+ miles I drove my A5, from 55k to 105k miles. I took it to Audi and had a new OEM clutch + DMF put back in and Audi gave me back the car with this issue. I can’t get my head round WHY. What changed?!

Hi Everybody,
I am new to the forum - this is my first post! - As the clutch pedal started to sometimes only come back half way and having changed the clutch master and slave cylinders but with this not solving the problem - I just had my 2007 Audi A5 3.0 TDI Quattro 240HP CAPA engine with my mechanic for the last couple of days and he installed a new OEN Luk clutch kit and fly wheel along with the Clutch Fork Kit -0B1 141 719 K - My Mechanic informed me that he didn't install the new ball stud or plastic intermediate piece as the ball stud included in the fork kit was about a centimetre longer than the original and the original ball stud and intermediate piece was still in very good shape - having completed the job he could not get the car to start - I informed him that I had read about the TSB
30 13 18 2028229/2 and forwarded details on to him where it discusses:
Customer may report that the vehicle does not start or only starts when the clutch pedal is pressed very firmly.
The message “Press clutch pedal to start vehicle” may appear in the instrument cluster.
..And I went to the workshop to see if I could help - To my mechanics surprise and relief, I was able to get the car started with a very firm press of the clutch pedal and we then followed the following procedure from the TSB:
Check the clutch hydraulics and electrics as follows:
Depress the clutch pedal to the perceived end stop.
While the clutch pedal is depressed, have a second technician open the bleeder screw on the clutch slave cylinder.
If the clutch pedal can now be moved further and the vehicle can be started, or if the message in the instrument cluster goes out, the sender of the clutch mechanism is correct. The issue is clutch mechanism wear; see the ElsaWeb Repair Manual for instructions. Do not replace the clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder, as doing so will not resolve this condition.
I was able to feel the additional movement in the pedal mentioned above as my mechanic had the bleeding port open which he then shut and I was then able to start the car a few times in a row on the lift but still with a relatively hard press on the clutch pedal - It was getting late and I had to leave the work shop - later my mechanic informed me that he had put the rest of the parts back etc... and could start the car to drive it out of the work shop but still with a very hard press on the clutch pedal! - I never had an issue starting the car before this clutch job - any ideas how to resolve this issue? - do you know if he should have installed the new longer ball stud and plastic intermediate piece supplied in the kit instead of the original parts? -
Also I am reading in the forum and getting conflicting answers regarding the slave cylinder rod - some people say extending the slave rod length will remove start problems while others are saying shortening the slave rod slightly may remove starting problems???? - Can you please advise which would be correct in my situation?

Sorry for the long post but we are stumped! - any help is greatly appreciated?

Best regards and thank you for any help you can provide!

Jude.

[JudeA5Quattro]

..An update on my situation - My car seems fine now after some use - It still require a firm press on the clutch pedal to start but I its not to bad - I would say that my issue was the result of all new parts being installed and a break in being required - I also think that bleeding the system with the pedal fully pressed gaining the extra few mm of push on the pedal also helped.

[RUM4MO]

You have to consider that the clutch release fork, is clipped into a fixed point at the opposite end to where the clutch slave cylinder push rod acts on it. So, from my logic, if you replace the ball ended pivot which is near the fixed end of the release fork with a higher one, the other end of the release fork will now be nearer the end of the clutch slave cylinder - which is much the same as slightly extending the slave cylinder push rod. That might be seen as Audi reacting to an existing issue - no?

To address your final part or question, fitting a modified slave cylinder would make enabling the starter sequence a lot sooner/easier.

Edit:- I wonder if the replacement release fork had a slightly different profile.

I'm new on this forum, pointed to this forum due to this "pressing clutch to the floor to enable starter" issue! I've ordered in a new but not Sachs slave cylinder and plan to measure the length of the Sachs VW Group original clutch slave cylinder's push rod, then do the same with the new Febi aftermarket one just to see if the progression of the part number of the original meant any change to the length of the push rod, then if need be, chop the push rod of the new cylinder in half and use a threaded sleeve with a suitably sized grub screw in the centre to wind the 2 halves back and up to and if possible fit a lock nut where the threaded two halves emerge from the threaded sleeve, aiming to start with 6mm grub screw which with a push rod reduction in length of 2mm due to the hacksaw cut gives an increase in length of 4mm. Got an 8mm grub screw to take the assembled increase in length to 6mm if the 4mm is not enough.

[Suprant]

Hey guys, I've been reading through this thread as my car has started to develop the push clutch to start issue. I'm thinking of pulling the rod off and shimming it to extend it as I've seen some others mention doing.

How much are you guys extending it by? I didn't see anyone mention the actual thickness of the shims they used. I understand this could vary for different clutches and how much life is left on them.

[RockJGC]

Does a longer slave cylinder rod make the clutch pedal engage closer to the floor? Or does it make the clutch engage higher in the pedal travel?