Is their really "adaptation" after tune installation?

[NPKR]

I've read about all the talk of the need for "adaptation" after installation of various tunes. It seems strange to me that the tune needs to "adjust" or "adapt." I would expect that the various parameters of engine function remapped by the tune would simply work as intended with maximum performance right after installation. Software doesn't generally adjust. When you install a new app on your phone or laptop it just works, it doesn't gradually work. I'm not calling anyone a liar but I am skeptical.

I have read various threads where members have installed a tune, said it 'really seems to pull harder' or 'its like a new beast' but they then complain that 0 to 60 times are no different or virtually the same. That doesn't seem right. That seems like a placebo effect where someone believes the car is driving with more power because they expect it to do so after the tune. The placebo effect is a real, known, proven phenomenon.

I've read member disappointment with the tune, at least initially, and then member saying "i guess I'll need to drive it more for adaptation." Again it seems that skews towards trying to achieve and believe in a pre-conceived expectation of the products expected effect. Improvements of 0 to 60 times reported are sometimes of minimal gain. One example is a member reporting best 0 to 60 before tune with S7 as 3.90 but after tune, with many attempts, 3.71. That's not much improvement to me - not enough to justify the cost of the tune, hassle of flashing back to stock before service, and risk of TD1. But this same member made adjustments- waited for better dryer weather conditions, put on ( or talked about putting on?) new tires, to try to get times down. Also, more attempts at 0 to 60 might eventually have led to some marginally improved times just by chance rather than effect of tune. Again, this improvement in 0 to 60 for some members seems minimal and possibly achieved because of a desire to prove to themselves that the tune is really working, kind of a placebo effect.

Is there any hard data to support such an adaptation effect? Could the various tune manufacturers take the data and create a graphed relationship between time and increase of performance including declining 0 to 60 times with reported standardized post-tune installation adaptation "driving workouts" (i.e., duration of driving workout, acceleration maneuvers performed, etc). This whole adaptation may be entirely accurate and correct but right now this idea just feels a little fluffy to me. If the HP gains can be graphed why not graph the gains in power and performance over time as well and post on their respective websites? If it is already there on their websites I apologize. I looked but could not find it.

I'm considering taking the plunge and tuning my S7 so I'm considering everything. Are there any tune manufacturers whose tunes do not report a need for an adaptation period? Also, although hp gains are reported and graphed on some of their websites what about advertised objective real world performance measures? For example what 0 to 60 time improvements or other measured improvements can be guaranteed to me, at least at a minimum, if I install their tune? I'm not seeing that advertised on their websites. And to me, promised real-world performance is more important than reported hp gains, which I can't measure myself while driving.

[ryanlada]

I have had tunes from APR and EPL and both have had noticeable adaption periods. Someone else will have to give a more technical explanation but there is a pretty big range of operating conditions (cold to hot, altitude, individual engine conditions) that would seem to require some adaption. The ECU needs to learn the particular engine and environment before it can provide full power even if it's just for safety reasons.

[moonlights4]

For my part, I've always felt like my car has driven plenty fast immediately following tune installation, both at Stage 1 and 2 with APR, as well as Stage 1 when I had EPL for a short time. I've never heard my local APR tuner say anything about adaptation either. Count me in as skeptical.

That said, your butt dyno will tell the story once you get a tune. APR may not have posted times next to the dyno charts for Stage 2, but my APR Stage 2 S6 is an absolute beast with 93 gas now. Last night I made a friend's Tesla 70D (that he talked all night about being so fast) look flat out slow, and walked an X6M a couple of weeks ago without even using launch control. It can throw me back flooring it even when it's already doing 60 on the highway. Tuned, it's a totally different car than stock. No comparison.


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[IowaRS7]

Your ECU has specific parameters it operates within and it adjusts to things that impact A/F ratios using various sensor feedback systems. A tuned ECU simply changes those parameters to take more advantage of corresponding fuels without regard for limitations that manufacturers have to follow for emissions and long term warranty reliability. Your car adapts to many variables regardless of a tune. It's not a set it and forget it deal. That's like an old carburetor that you would have to re-jet for different fuels and conditions.

[IowaRS7]

The tune might have been on a car located at X altitude running Y fuel, but you may live at Z altitude running W fuel. Adapting occurs within parameters set in the tune.

[Bassler]

Think of it has having to learn values and populate tables based on varied inputs run through a large multi variable equation. No one single run can account for all scenarios.

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[wwhan]

There are various aspects of ECU adaption. The ECU does learn and change it's behavior:

1.) OBDII -readiness codes, which will clear after the various drive modes have been completed. When Readiness is not set, it may affect what the engine is allowed to do.
2.) Long term & Short term Fuel trim table ajustment: Understanding Fuel Trim by Ross-Tech It allows the ECU to adjust to a particular engine & sensor outputs.
3,) Also, if one drives very aggressively for an extended period of time, the ECU will adapt & make the throttle/shifting more aggressive.

[moonlights4]

All this certainly may be true, and I think it is, personally. However, I am uncertain as to how much really makes a difference in "butt dyno" feel. Playing devil's advocate here...


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[Melsan]

I've read about all the talk of the need for "adaptation" after installation of various tunes. It seems strange to me that the tune needs to "adjust" or "adapt." I would expect that the various parameters of engine function remapped by the tune would simply work as intended with maximum performance right after installation. Software doesn't generally adjust. When you install a new app on your phone or laptop it just works, it doesn't gradually work. I'm not calling anyone a liar but I am skeptical.

I have read various threads where members have installed a tune, said it 'really seems to pull harder' or 'its like a new beast' but they then complain that 0 to 60 times are no different or virtually the same. That doesn't seem right. That seems like a placebo effect where someone believes the car is driving with more power because they expect it to do so after the tune. The placebo effect is a real, known, proven phenomenon.

I've read member disappointment with the tune, at least initially, and then member saying "i guess I'll need to drive it more for adaptation." Again it seems that skews towards trying to achieve and believe in a pre-conceived expectation of the products expected effect. Improvements of 0 to 60 times reported are sometimes of minimal gain. One example is a member reporting best 0 to 60 before tune with S7 as 3.90 but after tune, with many attempts, 3.71. That's not much improvement to me - not enough to justify the cost of the tune, hassle of flashing back to stock before service, and risk of TD1. But this same member made adjustments- waited for better dryer weather conditions, put on ( or talked about putting on?) new tires, to try to get times down. Also, more attempts at 0 to 60 might eventually have led to some marginally improved times just by chance rather than effect of tune. Again, this improvement in 0 to 60 for some members seems minimal and possibly achieved because of a desire to prove to themselves that the tune is really working, kind of a placebo effect.

Is there any hard data to support such an adaptation effect? Could the various tune manufacturers take the data and create a graphed relationship between time and increase of performance including declining 0 to 60 times with reported standardized post-tune installation adaptation "driving workouts" (i.e., duration of driving workout, acceleration maneuvers performed, etc). This whole adaptation may be entirely accurate and correct but right now this idea just feels a little fluffy to me. If the HP gains can be graphed why not graph the gains in power and performance over time as well and post on their respective websites? If it is already there on their websites I apologize. I looked but could not find it.

I'm considering taking the plunge and tuning my S7 so I'm considering everything. Are there any tune manufacturers whose tunes do not report a need for an adaptation period? Also, although hp gains are reported and graphed on some of their websites what about advertised objective real world performance measures? For example what 0 to 60 time improvements or other measured improvements can be guaranteed to me, at least at a minimum, if I install their tune? I'm not seeing that advertised on their websites. And to me, promised real-world performance is more important than reported hp gains, which I can't measure myself while driving.

My 2 cents on your last paragraph. I think the various tuners only report information that they can control on their websites (I.e. horsepower and torque gains over a stock motor on a specific dyno in their shop). They don't guarantee specific improvements in acceleration times as there are just too many variables in the real world out of their control (weather, track conditions, tires, driver experience etc.) to make such a guarantee. There are many sources of data on acceleration time improvement from other sources (owners of tuned cars as well as the tuners themselves) on this forum, you-tube etc. which suggest there are dramatic improvements to a tuned car's performance over stock tune. Having had 2 cars tuned to Stage 1 ( an S5 followed by an S6) I have experienced the improvement of these tunes. Highly recommend tuning.

[NPKR]

Think of it has having to learn values and populate tables based on varied inputs run through a large multi variable equation. No one single run can account for all scenarios.

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I understand what many of you are saying with regard to multiple variables. Ambient temperature, engine temperature, fuel octane, humidity, altitude/air quality and other variables change constantly, even moment to moment. However, I would think the purpose of the ECU and the tune-adjusted ECU would be to instantaneously analyze these multiple variables in real time and make engine adjustments accordingly and instantaneously, rather than "learning" them and storing them so that the engine behaves differently and more aggressively over the long term, even after you park the car and take it out the next morning. That just doesn't make much sense to me. It implies an artificial intelligence component to the ECU and I don't think the car's ECU has that capability. If I understand it correctly (and maybe I don't), the tune-adjusted ECU simply remaps the allowed engine tolerances to extract greater performance. It analyzes the various parameters in real time, but allows greater tolerances than the stock ECU which allows greater torque and HP.

I understand that altitude, temperature, humidity and other factors can affect performance, but I don't see why the tune manufacturers can't give a minimum expected performance improvement and also a maximum possible performance improvement under optimal conditions. For example, like a car manufacturers specified mpg. It is measured under optimal conditions and most people will never achieve that mpg but it gives the consumer some idea of what they can expect.

I have to say I am surprised that no tuner sales reps have weighed in. Their input would be especially welcome and appreciated. Tuner sales reps-What say you?

[DGVR6]

My s4 took about 3 days to adapt. Felt like stock after flash, I was pissed. 2nd day, power was on and off, sometimes it pulled hard, sometimes it pulled stock. 3rd day it was all there.. strong and very noticeable.

My s6, I felt it right away. Felt smoother after a few days though
As for the butt dyno.. i guess for some cars there is.. for some no.

[NPKR]

DGVR6 and others with tune-

Have you checked performance measures, like 0 to 60 times? Any objective improvement and how much? What were your before and after times?

[MP4.2+6.0]

Simplest practical answer: takes about 25% of the time it takes to read this thread so far to run an adaptation w/ VCDS--on both ECU and (if applicable) tranny. 10% of the time if you start to try to over analyze it beyond just reading...

And yes, Audis have had adaptation since about C4. Original stories on it described it in "fuzzy logic" terminology. Car sorts difference as it learns between Johnny Racer and Granny going to church once as week and spectrum in between. Probably also learning altitude/operating locale default, how O2s are reading as against MAF in closed loop mode, where to start on timing advance/map for given RPM, vacuum/boost etc. before inching up to test against knock sensors, and many other variables.

[3rdBNCC]

I guess I will finally chime in since I for one never believed the whole "adaptation" claim. Mostly since my patent butt dyno has felt a massive difference from stock to APR tuned on all my Audis. That being said, I have seen after 20+ passes at the drag strip, my car has steadily improved with regards to trap speed. Maybe subtle but I went from 133.x to 135.x within the last 6 runs. Now all of my runs are over 135. Kevin23 is seeing similar changes in his car.

Still not exactly sold on the idea, but those results do seem to support some kind of change in the car's behavior.

[moonlights4]

I guess I will finally chime in since I for one never believed the whole "adaptation" claim. Mostly since my patent butt dyno has felt a massive difference from stock to APR tuned on all my Audis. That being said, I have seen after 20+ passes at the drag strip, my car has steadily improved with regards to trap speed. Maybe subtle but I went from 133.x to 135.x within the last 6 runs. Now all of my runs are over 135. Kevin23 is seeing similar changes in his car.

Still not exactly sold on the idea, but those results do seem to support some kind of change in the car's behavior.

Nice to hear some objective evidence, seems to have a measurable effect. I share your impressions on initial tune, though. Have never felt disappointed after driving away from a flash personally. Feel for those that have. That would suck!


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[DGVR6]

DGVR6 and others with tune-

Have you checked performance measures, like 0 to 60 times? Any objective improvement and how much? What were your before and after times?

No.. but with the s4 it def took some time to get the full power. Did not feel it right away at all. Maybe it's the tuner because with APR on this car, the thing ripped right after. Only thing that needed to adapt was the TCU tune. It was slipping during WOT shifts in the beginning, then the next day it started to shift harsh.. like popping the clutch with a strong pressure plate while shifting. Started to smooth out the following day. (Manual mode btw)

[DGVR6]

One thing to note with uni and apr, uni's tune was a little different than APR. I noticed with APR, you'd have to load different maps (93,100,104) with the stalk. I'm no expert but apr has predetermine maps that are already set with specific target values, it'll adjust accordingly with gas and environment etc but probably much easier since it knows what gas is going in. Just like comfort, auto, dynamic. Comfort and dynamic is preset, while auto is always adjusting.

With uni, I know they had one map to load, it will adjust the same way, but it can go towards a very aggressive side of the map depending on gas, knock. The map will continue to push upwards until it found its limit with gas, timing, iat etc. and stay within the safe zone. If you put race gas, timing would shoot up from 18 to 27 and this is the "93 map".

Basically what I'm trying to say is apr probably wouldn't need to have such a big adaption process because it is not set aggressively and you can hit peak timing quickly because it's most likely predetermined. Regardless, the ecu is a complex thing and needs time to adapt.

Here is a good explanation I found .

It goes something like this. Modern ECUs have multiple maps which they work with to get you what you finally get in terms of drivability/power of an engine. At the very basic level there are two maps, a base map and a correction value map. These maps exist for all variables that an engine has (fuel/timing/boost) at the very least. Once the ECU power is cut, the values the ECU has stored when taking the base map, applied the correction values map and gotten the final values the engine seems to like, this information is erased. It gets rebuilt as you drive the car and can take a few miles to get back to proper values as you'll have to hit multiple load points on each of these maps to get it all perfect. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of possible combinations once you hit all these load points.

With that part understood, the next variable is what the tuner does in terms of modifying the tune to get additional gains. Are they modifying the base maps or the correction value maps or possibly both? If the tuner modifies the base maps, then the difference in output should be felt immediately with only a minor improvement over the adaptation period. If the tuner modifies the correction values map, then there will be no felt difference initially and only after adaptation will you feel an improvement.


This is how I have seen ECUs from other platforms work in the past and I'm sure that while a bit more complex, the current Audi ones work the same way at the core concept.

[Chris Morales]

With APR, there very clearly is an adaptation period with the race gas maps. Try hammering it immediately and the car goes limp. You have to ease into it and let the car learn the new parameters through some part throttle and short pulls before it will give you a clean run through the gears. I've noticed the same jumping from the stock map to the 93 map. But 20 miles or so of spirited driving is all it takes. Once it pulls clean, any further "adaptation" probably has to do with changing ambient conditions.


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[NPKR]

I am not sure I would call adjusting to differing octane gas "adaptation." That is simply the ECU adjusting, in real time, to sensed changes in fuel quality. That is not a learned behavior of a driver's aggressiveness and adjustment to their driving behavior. Certainly there are changes that the ECU responds to and makes modifications in response but that is not adaptation. That is the ECU simply doing what it is supposed to do at all times- in stock form and otherwise. The learned adaptation talked about on the forum is something that many members have said or implied occurs gradually over many days, or longer, of driving. That is not the same as sensing octane changes like racing gas and making instantaneous real-time changes. That is not adaptation, at least not how I see it or how it has been described by forum members.

As quoted by Swank Perfection in an earlier reply:
"Once the ECU power is cut, the values the ECU has stored when taking the base map, applied the correction values map and gotten the final values the engine seems to like, this information is erased. It gets rebuilt as you drive the car and can take a few miles to get back to proper values as you'll have to hit multiple load points on each of these maps to get it all perfect."
-This implies that any "adaptation" by the ECU maps gets cancelled out/erased when you shut the car down and has to relearn in the first few minutes of driving every time you restart the car. That directly contradicts the idea that individual driving behaviors are learned over time by the ECU. It means that every time you drive your car it has to "relearn." That's not adaptation.

I think if there really was true adaptation the experts from APR, EPL, GIAC, etc would have chimed in and confirmed that it exists and explained how it occurs with their particular software. They usually jump right in when there is something that needs to be clarified for their product. I think they are content to let forum members speculate on and believe in something that probably doesn't really exist. They can't comment and say it exists if it doesn't. So no comment from them. But maybe I'm wrong and they will jump in and comment shortly.

Right now, given the generally positive responses to tuning, I will likely do it. However, I'm still not convinced that there truly is any adaptation- at least not any "adaptation" beyond the basic real-time adjustments that occur with sensing of octane changes, temperature changes, humidity, etc. But those are just basic functions of an ECU and not AI or true adaptation.

[goliath1]

I am not sure I would call adjusting to differing octane gas "adaptation." That is simply the ECU adjusting, in real time, to sensed changes in fuel quality. That is not a learned behavior of a driver's aggressiveness and adjustment to their driving behavior. Certainly there are changes that the ECU responds to and makes modifications in response but that is not adaptation. That is the ECU simply doing what it is supposed to do at all times- in stock form and otherwise. The learned adaptation talked about on the forum is something that many members have said or implied occurs gradually over many days, or longer, of driving. That is not the same as sensing octane changes like racing gas and making instantaneous real-time changes. That is not adaptation, at least not how I see it or how it has been described by forum members.

As quoted by Swank Perfection in an earlier reply:
"Once the ECU power is cut, the values the ECU has stored when taking the base map, applied the correction values map and gotten the final values the engine seems to like, this information is erased. It gets rebuilt as you drive the car and can take a few miles to get back to proper values as you'll have to hit multiple load points on each of these maps to get it all perfect."
-This implies that any "adaptation" by the ECU maps gets cancelled out/erased when you shut the car down and has to relearn in the first few minutes of driving every time you restart the car. That directly contradicts the idea that individual driving behaviors are learned over time by the ECU. It means that every time you drive your car it has to "relearn." That's not adaptation.

I think if there really was true adaptation the experts from APR, EPL, GIAC, etc would have chimed in and confirmed that it exists and explained how it occurs with their particular software. They usually jump right in when there is something that needs to be clarified for their product. I think they are content to let forum members speculate on and believe in something that probably doesn't really exist. They can't comment and say it exists if it doesn't. So no comment from them. But maybe I'm wrong and they will jump in and comment shortly.

Right now, given the generally positive responses to tuning, I will likely do it. However, I'm still not convinced that there truly is any adaptation- at least not any "adaptation" beyond the basic real-time adjustments that occur with sensing of octane changes, temperature changes, humidity, etc. But those are just basic functions of an ECU and not AI or true adaptation.

Octane is a measure of fuel quality?

[Chris Morales]

I am not sure I would call adjusting to differing octane gas "adaptation." That is simply the ECU adjusting, in real time, to sensed changes in fuel quality. That is not a learned behavior of a driver's aggressiveness and adjustment to their driving behavior. Certainly there are changes that the ECU responds to and makes modifications in response but that is not adaptation. That is the ECU simply doing what it is supposed to do at all times- in stock form and otherwise. The learned adaptation talked about on the forum is something that many members have said or implied occurs gradually over many days, or longer, of driving. That is not the same as sensing octane changes like racing gas and making instantaneous real-time changes. That is not adaptation, at least not how I see it or how it has been described by forum members.

As quoted by Swank Perfection in an earlier reply:
"Once the ECU power is cut, the values the ECU has stored when taking the base map, applied the correction values map and gotten the final values the engine seems to like, this information is erased. It gets rebuilt as you drive the car and can take a few miles to get back to proper values as you'll have to hit multiple load points on each of these maps to get it all perfect."
-This implies that any "adaptation" by the ECU maps gets cancelled out/erased when you shut the car down and has to relearn in the first few minutes of driving every time you restart the car. That directly contradicts the idea that individual driving behaviors are learned over time by the ECU. It means that every time you drive your car it has to "relearn." That's not adaptation.

I think if there really was true adaptation the experts from APR, EPL, GIAC, etc would have chimed in and confirmed that it exists and explained how it occurs with their particular software. They usually jump right in when there is something that needs to be clarified for their product. I think they are content to let forum members speculate on and believe in something that probably doesn't really exist. They can't comment and say it exists if it doesn't. So no comment from them. But maybe I'm wrong and they will jump in and comment shortly.

Right now, given the generally positive responses to tuning, I will likely do it. However, I'm still not convinced that there truly is any adaptation- at least not any "adaptation" beyond the basic real-time adjustments that occur with sensing of octane changes, temperature changes, humidity, etc. But those are just basic functions of an ECU and not AI or true adaptation.

That's tortured, but I get that you are looking for another form of "adaptation." You're looking for bonus adaptation. I've shared the only form of adaptation of which I am aware. It surely is adaptation; just not based on "learned behavior of a driver's aggressiveness and adjustment to their driving behavior" (which sounds like bullshit to me). Lots of things change when you enter a different map, not just different octane gas or "sensed changes in fuel quality."

[Chris Morales]

Just get the APR tune and you'll be pleased. Never heard of a bad performing APR tune. There is no evidence of any mystical holdback of power if you aren't a mean enough driver. You are really overthinking this.

[07S6]

NPKR - I have not tuned yet so i don't have an opinion either way. However, assuming there is some type of adaptation over time - have you considered that it may be that the ECU and/or TCU might need to record a series of inputs (multiple measurements over time) for a particular parameter (octane, A/F mix, air flow, throttle input behavior, etc..) before it adapts and performs differently?
Somewhat similar to how the car needs x-number of "clean" cycles to clear a random fault on its own. To me this would seem like a logical explanation as to why it may "adapt" over time..though "over time" may not mean gradual, but rather at some specific moment when the ECU starts to behave differently...but since we don't know when that moment is, it just feels like it changed "over time".

[moonlights4]

Just get the APR tune and you'll be pleased. Never heard of a bad performing APR tune. There is no evidence of any mystical holdback of power if you aren't a mean enough driver. You are really overthinking this.

This. My APR tuned S6 behaves like a beast even after my wife drives it like a grandma, and did so immediately after driving it away from the tuning shop.


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[Ze_Nardo6]

I think it's great to want to know for your own knowledge of the subject. That being said, who really cares? It's a 3, maybe 4 day max adaptation period. In the grand scheme, that is such a short period of time.

To the skeptic(s) as to whether or not there is an adaptation period, absolutely, as confirmed by many tuners. I've personally flashed over a dozen tunes between the Audis I've owned and while the adaptation period may vary between car/tuner, it is there every single time.

[richib86]

To the skeptic(s) as to whether or not there is an adaptation period, absolutely, as confirmed by many tuners. I've personally flashed over a dozen tunes between the Audis I've owned and while the adaptation period may vary between car/tuner, it is there every single time.

^^^ this

[flyfishing]

I'm the dude going from 3.9 (VR tuned) to 3.7 EPL (with wife and not so good yoko tires and after a morning rain).

Day 1: wtf did I buy? it feels like my old car.
Day 2-3: OK it's a little faster on the low end, but why still same 0-60. Low and mid end torque feels a lot better.
Day 3+: Must be adapted b/c now feels like a beast and I did the 3.7.

Still haven't done 0-60 again to test, but def pulls much harder.

Dunno what OP's def of worth it is in speed, but one pays quite a bit of difference going from a7 to s7 to rs7 for just "a little bit more" (which is relative) speed going from 0-60 and or quarter mile.

[kyleblix]

Hey guys, so to revive this old thread just looking for some info.
Have the APR State 1 tune on my C7 S6 and really enjoy it. Around 3300 rpm under somewhat aggressive throttle I get a little blip/hiccup, you can hear/feel and see it in the rpm band. It's like it either cuts out for a fraction of a second or maybe jumps up in rpm slightly.
Had it on the dyno and the a/f looks like it get super lean at that spot and the tech said he could hear the knock. It's not all the time, only under aggressive throttle and seems most noticeable to me in 3rd gear.
Any thoughts?

[TexasDfwS4]

TCU tune needed

[WatchMeSpend]

The more power I add, the dumber the transmission seems. The engine and I want the same thing and the transmission is not helping. Definitely need a tune.

On another note, a friend had his mechatronic fail and we stuffed another one from a donor car in it's place. The car was shifting all over the place for a month until it adapted. The car had an APR tune on it as well, but the transmission shifted regularly after a month.

[kyleblix]

Yeah it's got the TCU tune, had it flashed at the same time as the ECU

[rlny]

Ok I’m reviving this thread. I have the same issue as OP. Just got APR stage 1 today cleared all the codes but car still feels stock. I did notice that it runs on all 8cyl all the time now we’re it was disabling some pre tune. I’m assuming it needs to adapt like previously mentioned. Exhaust is louder but car feels the same.

[Audisthesia]

Ok I’m reviving this thread. I have the same issue as OP. Just got APR stage 1 today cleared all the codes but car still feels stock. I did notice that it runs on all 8cyl all the time now we’re it was disabling some pre tune. I’m assuming it needs to adapt like previously mentioned. Exhaust is louder but car feels the same.

You can have COD in efficiency mode still

[rlny]

Took the car out and it feels the same up until I get past 100mph then I feel a huge push lol. But it should feel like that on the low end too.

[rlny]

Anybody else have any insight on this?


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[rlny]

Day 3 and I still don’t really feel any power. I would think 100hp and like almost 200tq from apr stage 1 would be night/day difference but car feels the same wtf. Could there have been some issue with the install? I got it installed through teamviewer. I don’t have any codes thrown. Is it me or should I really feel this tune when spirited driving traction control off?


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[ry0t05]

When I went stage 1 (DS1), the power was very obvious, especially after about 50mph when the turbos are really pushing

[rlny]

Took the car out on a cool night last night and the car felt a little more powerful. I don’t know if that was all in my head though but it kinda pushed me back in my seat. I wouldn’t say night and day difference though.


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[ichi d]

Day 3 and I still don’t really feel any power. I would think 100hp and like almost 200tq from apr stage 1 would be night/day difference but car feels the same wtf. Could there have been some issue with the install? I got it installed through teamviewer. I don’t have any codes thrown. Is it me or should I really feel this tune when spirited driving traction control off?


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At this point you might want to have whoever reflash it.

[Audisthesia]

Day 3 and I still don’t really feel any power. I would think 100hp and like almost 200tq from apr stage 1 would be night/day difference but car feels the same wtf. Could there have been some issue with the install? I got it installed through teamviewer. I don’t have any codes thrown. Is it me or should I really feel this tune when spirited driving traction control off?

I have to question APR installed remotely via team viewer. Never heard of that, and APR AFAIK is very particular you HAVE to go to one of their authorized dealers to have ANYTHING APR flashed. Could you explain how you managed to have an APR tune installed remotely?

Took the car out and it feels the same up until I get past 100mph then I feel a huge push lol. But it should feel like that on the low end too.

The main method that tunes use to increase power is by increasing boost developed by the turbos. That being said, there isn't necessarily a speed at which the power gains are noticed. The gains are noticed in the RPM band where the turbos are spooled up to speeds to delivery the increases boost (this is also proven by the dyno charts and "power band"). No, you won't notice significant gains on low end, the RPMs aren't high enough to spool turbos enough. Here is APR Stage 1 dyno plot, notice low end RPM range is almost identical to stock? The plot lines don't diverge until roughly above 2000 RPMs. So the easiest method to test out a tune with your butt dyno is to cruise at highway speeds, and then stomp on it. The gains should be very easily noticeable at highway speeds and trying to pass another car by flooring it. I have a 4 banger 2017 Passat APR Stage 1.. It doesn't gain anywhere near what a 4.0T stage 1 does, but it is VERY OBVIOUS even on the Passat the power gains.