The definitive stereo and subwoofer upgrade thread

[audigsr]

Not sure if i read this Correctly. I can disconnect my B&O Sub and connect the wires directly to my Sealed Box? Sorry if this is a stupid question. A lot of information going on here. Great Thread!

If you're implying straight to a sub in a box, you technically could. But most likely it will be under powered, depending on the sub you're using. Generally to get proper power you need to wire to a signal processor and then to your amp or get an amp with both built in.

[BillyS4]

In theory yes, but it likely won't sound good and will be underpowered.

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Got it. Thanks for the Reply

[dkmesa]

Thanks to this thread, I installed Dayton RS75-4 in the dash of my non-B&O system today. Contemplating adding some Polk tweeters I have in the garage or OEM B&O tweeters to the sail panels, and will likely add a sub. Debating a pre-fab box or building my own fiberglass for the right side.

[dkmesa]

Thanks to this thread, I installed Dayton RS75-4 in the dash of my non-B&O system today. Contemplating adding some Polk tweeters I have in the garage or OEM B&O tweeters to the sail panels, and will likely add a sub. Debating a pre-fab box or building my own fiberglass for the right side.

For anyone looking to upgrade their dash speakers, Metra 82-4201 worked great with a little but of dremel trimming.

[thendisnear4u]

It seems the suggested Pioneer free air 10" sub (TS-W261D4) is harder to get since it's been a few years since it came out.

Is there a newer Pioneer sub that's effectively the same sub and same or similar price point? Looking to just upgrade the sub to give the system some sign of bass for completeness.

[fmzip]

It seems the suggested Pioneer free air 10" sub (TS-W261D4) is harder to get since it's been a few years since it came out.

Is there a newer Pioneer sub that's effectively the same sub and same or similar price point? Looking to just upgrade the sub to give the system some sign of bass for completeness.

I'd suggest reaching out to Pioneer and see what they suggest for a replacement and then post your results here:

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...eer/Contact+Us

[thendisnear4u]

In progress... no word so far. I did see the sub listed on Sears for under $70 shipped. Might go that route. But still interested to know if there's a newer version of the same or suggested replacement.

[thendisnear4u]

I'd suggest reaching out to Pioneer and see what they suggest for a replacement and then post your results here:

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...eer/Contact+Us

This from Pioneer:

If you can not still find the TS-W261D4, the closest replacement would be the TS-A250D4.

[fmzip]

This from Pioneer:

Do not buy their suggested replacement!

Reason being, the sensitivity is only 74db on the replacement versus 93db on the other. This means you will have little to no output from the new sub.

Old

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...S-W261D4#specs

New

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...S-A250D4#specs

[thendisnear4u]

Thanks! Seems they pencil-whipped the response with little to no analysis.

[Strong Man]

Do not buy their suggested replacement!

Reason being, the sensitivity is only 74db on the replacement versus 93db on the other. This means you will have little to no output from the new sub.

Old

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...S-W261D4#specs

New

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...S-A250D4#specs

Some extra input: it’s not just sensitivity is too low as well qts is half :
New qts = 0.56
Old qts = 1.04

I guess who answered from Pioneer has completely ZERO knowledge in car audio.

[thendisnear4u]

Some extra input: it’s not just sensitivity is too low as well qts is half :
New qts = 0.56
Old qts = 1.04

I guess who answered from Pioneer has completely ZERO knowledge in car audio.

Response was from Rocky. Rocky [at] pioneer-usa.com

[audigsr]

Selling my AudioControl ACM 1.300 amp if anyone is interested.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-ACM-1-300-amp

[19birel]

Anyone know if there is a way to get an equalizer in these cars at all? I have the B&O system (totally stock atm) and I would love stronger mids, I achieved this in my old BMW by simply adjusting the equalizer settings of the Harman Kardon Logic 7 system it had and was pleased but the Audi doesn't have that feature, just treble, bass, surround, and DSP.

Is there some hidden menu I can activate or and aftermarket amp that will give me the ability to do this?

[audigsr]

Anyone know if there is a way to get an equalizer in these cars at all? I have the B&O system (totally stock atm) and I would love stronger mids, I achieved this in my old BMW by simply adjusting the equalizer settings of the Harman Kardon Logic 7 system it had and was pleased but the Audi doesn't have that feature, just treble, bass, surround, and DSP.

Is there some hidden menu I can activate or and aftermarket amp that will give me the ability to do this?

Not that I know of without going aftermarket HU, I also miss the EQ adjustability on the Harman Kardon on my old 335i.

[ambesolman]

As I anxiously await the shipping of my SI bm12, I’ve decided to start with the sub & amp + dsp for the stock b&o in my ‘14 S4 to see if I can get decent enough improvements without replacing my speakers.
I have the option to get a MiniDSP 6x8 ($150) and/or Helix DSP Pro + director + BT module ($750) all used but in good shape. There is a guy over on diyma that will remotely tune your car for a fee and I would likely get a much better result going that route, plus he will teach me the process as he does it.
Obviously the helix is 5x the price, but what are the biggest advantages of the helix over the simpler mini? Is it worth it? Would I need the helix MOST adapter (another $4-500) to make it work? Anything else I’m not thinking of?



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[miztahsparklez]

As I anxiously await the shipping of my SI bm12, I’ve decided to start with the sub & amp + dsp for the stock b&o in my ‘14 S4 to see if I can get decent enough improvements without replacing my speakers.
I have the option to get a MiniDSP 6x8 ($150) and/or Helix DSP Pro + director + BT module ($750) all used but in good shape. There is a guy over on diyma that will remotely tune your car for a fee and I would likely get a much better result going that route, plus he will teach me the process as he does it.
Obviously the helix is 5x the price, but what are the biggest advantages of the helix over the simpler mini? Is it worth it? Would I need the helix MOST adapter (another $4-500) to make it work? Anything else I’m not thinking of?



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I have a Mobridge for sale to get you an optical out.

I used a Helix DSP in my s4 with phenomenal results. The software is fairly good.

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[ambesolman]

I have a Mobridge for sale to get you an optical out.

I used a Helix DSP in my s4 with phenomenal results. The software is fairly good.

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Posted a question in your sale thread


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[maksym]

Sorry for a slight off-topic. Was cleaning a door lock actuator in a REAR door of my B8 S4 and noticed the large in-door speaker is broken. The one in the other rear door is possibly broken too - can barely hear it. Should I just throw in a new set of OEM (non-B&O) speakers or get something nicer that would still work with the OEM setup? Not looking to upgrade the whole system at this point, still recovering from fixing PCV and what not, but would not mind working in small (financially speaking) steps towards assembling a better system.

[svenson14]

I don't know why this has taken me so long, but I've discovered this week that (with the Components I installed front and rear) I'm getting little to no highs/tweeters on the Driver's side, and little to no Mids/woofers out of the passenger side.

Before I rip apart the door panels again, I figured I'd ask here, could I have gotten the wiring wrong?

What could be the issue? Short on the tweeters? Why both front and rear?

Could this be an Audi issue that someone has also had?

[Drunktank]

Did you just use the factory locations and replace like for like on the same wires?

[ambesolman]

For the b8.5 with b&o, does anyone know the max depth of the 3way speakers up front? Thinking of just finding good measuring drivers and going active with a MiniDSP 6x8. Any suggestions are also welcome. Been looking on Madisound fwiw. Thanks!


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[fmzip]

Anyone know if there is a way to get an equalizer in these cars at all? I have the B&O system (totally stock atm) and I would love stronger mids, I achieved this in my old BMW by simply adjusting the equalizer settings of the Harman Kardon Logic 7 system it had and was pleased but the Audi doesn't have that feature, just treble, bass, surround, and DSP.

Is there some hidden menu I can activate or and aftermarket amp that will give me the ability to do this?

Audioson Prima 8.9bit was suggested to me:

https://w221audio.wordpress.com/2015...-audio-system/

[fmzip]

For the b8.5 with b&o, does anyone know the max depth of the 3way speakers up front? Thinking of just finding good measuring drivers and going active with a MiniDSP 6x8. Any suggestions are also welcome. Been looking on Madisound fwiw. Thanks!


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Where's this 3 way speaker???

[ambesolman]

Where's this 3 way speaker???

Meant the 3way components in front, 1”, 3”, 8”


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[ambesolman]

Meant the 3way components in front, 1”, 3”, 8”


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Nobody has any ideas with all the stereo updates preformed here?

The Voce and Illusion c3cx are the only mids I’ve heard of people putting in the factory dash locations. Anyone use something different? Trying to see how deep that cavity is.


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[audi_sq4]

The dash cavity is pretty deep... Not an issue... The rack of the windshield and diameter of the opening in dash is an issue....

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[bwernick]

Here's a new data point for people looking to upgrade the B&O sub in a B8/8.5. The Pioneer sub that's been mentioned previously doesn't appear to be in production anymore. I decided to try using an Infinity REF1000S 10" sub, 4ohm. The basket is just a little too wide to drop in from the top. I was able to mount it from the bottom side of the deck using a 3/4" MDF ring as a spacer and some foam tape to seal the ring to rear deck interface. I was able to cut a section of insulation and splice a new speaker wire into the existing wiring harness, so I didn't have to cut off the factory speaker connector.

The factory amp seems to do just fine pushing a 4ohm load. Overall, the sound is substantially better than the stock sub. The B&O system is far from an audiophile system, but for $100 replacing the sub is a worthwhile upgrade.

The drawback with mounting from the underside with a trim ring is that you lose the benefit of a shallow sub with this or similar drivers. The back of the magnet ends up about 4" below the rear deck. I probably could've done this with a 1/4" ring to pick up another 1/2", but didn't have one on hand today.

I think the ideal situation would be to find a good free-air sub with a narrow enough basket to fit the factory hole and top-mount it with maybe a 1/4" or 1/2" ring, but I'm happy with the way this turned out for now. I would like to try dropping a JL 10W0 in from the top, but from the profile pictures I don't think the basket would clear. The guy who wrote one of the initial guides around here was able to drop a JL 10W1 from the top, but that looks to have a narrower basket assembly, and from the install pictures it didn't sit flush with the top deck either.

On a side note, the paint-can opener tool mentioned in the guide works great on the B&O grills. Damn the Audi panel clips for the side pillars and deck cover, though. Holy cow they are tight!

Infinity REF1000S trunk.jpg
Infinity REF1000S deck.jpg

[grovlet]

How much was a bit to much for size?

Specs say 239 MM - Dayton Audio has a HO Reference Series similar woofer that shows up as only 235MM - I would expect it to perform better - and it's just a tad pricier ($145 vs $99) - if it fits from the top it may be a good for others to try.

Reference 1000s Specs
Dayton Audio Reference HO Specs

Dayton HO 10" - Parts Express

[ambesolman]

The dash cavity is pretty deep... Not an issue... The rack of the windshield and diameter of the opening in dash is an issue....

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Thanks


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[ambesolman]

Well, I went by my audio shop over the weekend to try and get an estimate for installation and kick around some ideas. I realized that I’ve definitely been out of this hobby for longer than I thought, because I’d forgotten how expensive it can be. It’s going to cost twice as much as I thought to put all the equipment in and build the box.

As of now, the plan is to install:

Alpine pdx-v9 (2)
MOST connector box
Minidsp 6x8
SI bm12 mkv
Sound dampening on front doors
3-way speakers up front

That said, I’m going to have to install this stuff in at least two stages, but I’m unsure what to do first. An amp and sub seems like a good start, but can I do that without needing to install the MOST box or minidsp at the same time?



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[Snax]

Yes. Assuming you're installing the subs first. That said, any stereo shop should be able to grab signal off the OEM sub to run an aftermarket sub. Sure you will loose some output, especially as you turn up the volume, but later on when you have the MOST installed, that piece should correct the diminishing bass.

By the way the, I believe one of the MOST devices has a built in dsp. I could be wrong

[Aegix]

Hello, do any of you know if there is any possibility to get a sub output out of an Audi standard stereo head-unit (8 speakers setup, 2 mid base front + 2 dash tweeters, 2 mid base rear + 2 door tweeters)?

I am asking because I have tried getting signal from the radio for an aftermarket sub from pin 9 + 13 with no result.
radio unit

Any info will be much appreciated.


P.S.
I have been upgrading my car's sound system, following other peoples experience here on the forum, but without adding any amp until now. I just ordered a Match PP 86DSP amp+dsp, and because of the factory basic sound system, I am not sure how the install will go. I might have to run some wires. I also considered buying this Helix SDMI25 and getting an optical signal to the DSP so I don't have to tap in the High-level outputs of the head unit

Changes made

-Added sound damping to the doors and trunk
-Front:
2x Audison AV3.0 (installed in the dashboard)
2x Audison Prima AP8 8"
2x Audison AV 1.1 installed in the doors (where you usually find the B&O ones)
-Rear:
2x Audions AV6.5 (I kept the stock tweeters for the moment).

-Trunk:
Audi avant sub box+ Hertz DS 25

[mrdeli]

Hi All. I have Q5 with Audi Sound System (none B&O). I have fitted a JL 10” sub with Rockford Fozgate amp. Im picking up the sub signal from the connection going into the factory sub.

I have seen people suggest that the polarity should be flipped - is this true and if so why?

Thanks Mark.

[dkmesa]

Just speculating, but it may be because the factory sub in hte spare tire compartment is downward firing which is typically reversed polarity.

[mrdeli]

Thanks for your input. I’m pretty sure the spare tyre sub is upward firing. Maybe the B&O one is different?

[waxxonMTL]

who went with the audison amp? I got the AP8, AV3.0 And AV1.1, along with a great JL 10 inch open-air (from the 90's era) made for 8ohm.

How much would i gain from the audison prima amp? I got nothing else to mod on the car and i kinda feel the urge to do something LOL!

[extratime]

How much would i gain from the audison prima amp? I got nothing else to mod on the car and i kinda feel the urge to do something LOL!

I'm not familiar with anything Audison, but I still maybe able to help you out a little because I've bypassed the B&O system in favor of aftermarket. It's impossible to describe in words what the improvements are because frankly it has to be heard to be believed. What good would it do to tell you something like it's "awesome/great/totally worth it/etc.". That's just my opinion. I can, however, provide you with some visuals that may help you make up your own mind.

If your unfamiliar with JL's Tun software the background colors represent each of the B&O channels:

Front Left and right
Blue = bass channel
Violet = door woofer channel
Red = dash midrange and tweeter sail (this is a shared channel in the B&O system)
Gray/White line graph = the unaltered B&O signal being sent to your speakers. It's horrendous.

Rear left and right
Blue = bass channel
Green = rear woofer channel
Gray/White line graph = the unaltered B&O signal being sent to you speakers.



This is the signal after the factory time alignment has been removed, a 31 band eq has been applied, and the signal is summed into a full range signal.

The yellow/gold line graph is the new signal being sent to the aftermarket amps then speakers.



I mean absolutely no offense to anyone who has changed out there stock speakers for aftermarket running off the B&O amp, but in all honesty doing that is like putting a 1 inch Band-Aid on a 10 inch cut hoping that stops the bleeding. You need to fix the root cause of the problem to really improve the overall performance of the B&O system and that's the signal.

[cybernet99]

I'm not familiar with anything Audison, but I still maybe able to help you out a little because I've bypassed the B&O system in favor of aftermarket. It's impossible to describe in words what the improvements are because frankly it has to be heard to be believed. What good would it do to tell you something like it's "awesome/great/totally worth it/etc.". That's just my opinion. I can, however, provide you with some visuals that may help you make up your own mind.

If your unfamiliar with JL's Tun software the background colors represent each of the B&O channels:

Front Left and right
Blue = bass channel
Violet = door woofer channel
Red = dash midrange and tweeter sail (this is a shared channel in the B&O system)
Gray/White line graph = the unaltered B&O signal being sent to your speakers. It's horrendous.

Rear left and right
Blue = bass channel
Green = rear woofer channel
Gray/White line graph = the unaltered B&O signal being sent to you speakers.



This is the signal after the factory time alignment has been removed, a 31 band eq has been applied, and the signal is summed into a full range signal.

The yellow/gold line graph is the new signal being sent to the aftermarket amps then speakers.



I mean absolutely no offense to anyone who has changed out there stock speakers for aftermarket running off the B&O amp, but in all honesty doing that is like putting a 1 inch Band-Aid on a 10 inch cut hoping that stops the bleeding. You need to fix the root cause of the problem to really improve the overall performance of the B&O system and that's the signal.

How did you sum the signal from the headunit to provide full range signal to process and pass along to amps?

In my setup I am grabbing the LF/RF high level outputs just before they would go into the amp (I’m non mmi, so no fiber)

I found the female plug and the pin outs to make rca leads to feed into Kicker amps that will take high level feeds in.










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[extratime]

How did you sum the signal from the headunit to provide full range signal to process and pass along to amps?

In my setup I am grabbing the LF/RF high level outputs just before they would go into the amp (I’m non mmi, so no fiber)

I found the female plug and the pin outs to make rca leads to feed into Kicker amps that will take high level feeds in.

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There's multiple ways to do it with the B&O system. Either with something like a Mobridge or similar at the head unit using fiber optic cable --> dsp --> amps or, in your case, you will need to do what I did. I garbed the signal from the B&O amp speaker outputs. Unfortunately, you will need something ahead of those beautiful amps such as a Fix86/82 or Bit 10 to sum the channels into a full range signal. I choose to do it at the B&O amp because I wanted to keep everything in the cubby and I also didn't want to run new speaker wires into the doors so I already had plans to cut the stock speaker wires at the amp anyway.

I can tell you the wiring diagram is on the front page of this thread is dead on accurate for the B&O system but I'm not sure about non B&O.

I went with a couple NVX mini amps VADM1 and 4. Speakers are Focal PS 165F component set in the door and sail plus a pair of Morel CCWR254's in the dash. I'm also running two JL 6W3's in the trunk. If you haven't figured it out, I went full on mini