The definitive stereo and subwoofer upgrade thread

[Cooper993]

Went with the Pioneer free air. Wasn't a direct fit so I built a spacer. Happy with the tighter bass!

I looked on Pioneer's site and that sub isn't listed as free air.

Is there another version?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Specifications

[fmzip]

that is very interesting.. I'm using SD since day 1.. maybe I should buy myself a ipod just for that very reason. For me, all I did is sound deadener 80mil on door, trunk ( total of about 30sq feet) + JL IB10 ( one of the very few TRUE infinite baffle sub out there). I listen to hip hop and it's fine.

Sure it's not like my 3 amp Arc KS combo with CDT 12 in a custom sub, buuuut for ease of fitting/price/no trunk spakce taken, I'm very happy.

Do you have a link on the exact sub you used? Is there an 8 ohm version? Where exactly was the sound deadening installed? Front doors and entire trunk?

I looked on Pioneer's site and that sub isn't listed as free air.

Is there another version?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...Specifications

Correct, it's not a "true" free air, that's the one that other have used in their Audi's which is why I went with it. "Free of enclosure" would be more accurate

This is the subowoofer that was once sold by Pioneer and replaced by the one I used, it was listed as both free air and enclosed apps:

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...ries/TS-W260D4

Crutchfield lists it as the replacement:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-7MGEq7...TS-W260D4.html

Here's an image comparison:

[fmzip]

Thank you...I've already found it too.



No , It isn't correct . If you're using 30 pin connetor the audio from iPhone already comes after internal iPhone DAC - https://i.stack.imgur.com/39v15.jpg . The internal iPhone DAC is Cirrus Logic 338S0589 - it's the high quility DAC (http://soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/...ty-of-iphone-4), much better than internal DAC of Audi system.

charging up the spare Iphone! Going to try it out

[Strong Man]

charging up the spare Iphone! Going to try it out

Try to have iPhone 4/4s ...one more thing :before you're going to compare make sure that you have the same setting for SD Card and "iPhone" sources.

[fmzip]

Try to have iPhone 4/4s ...one more thing :before you're going to compare make sure that you have the same setting for SD Card and "iPhone" sources.

Only have a 5s, will try it with a 30pin to lightning adapter

[xxdunnxx]

http://www.jlaudio.com/marine-audio-...fle-subwoofers

They do make ID subwoofers, but they are commonly used in boats.

Most good subwoofers are capable of being used in IB. That is why I used an Image Dynamics IDQ for it. Those are commonly used in IB situations.

[fmzip]

You don't notice distorted highs after around 20? I never push more than 24.

No, not at all. I can go to 28. Could be how the music is ripped. All of my MP3's are ripped to 89db @ 320Kbp when I convert them from FLAC

Here a video of it at 28 toward the end. I was trying to show the vibration of the rear view to give an idea of sound pressure but it's not too visible

http://thetechhouse.myqnapcloud.com/...Audi/music.MOV

[fmzip]

Just stumbled across this "audiophile" setting....

I'll try it

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads...philes.255366/

[fmzip]

Try to have iPhone 4/4s ...one more thing :before you're going to compare make sure that you have the same setting for SD Card and "iPhone" sources.

Question for you...in MMI, what do you have the input signal dial set at for the Iphone through the AMI cable? If I leave it a zero, the output level is way lower than the SD Card. At first listen, there is definitely an improvement in audio quality, will need to load up a bunch of music to test this out.

[doug97gxe]

Wait do you have a 1000 watt sub powered by an 80watt factory output ?


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[fmzip]

Wait do you have a 1000 watt sub powered by an 80watt factory output ?


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Not sure who you are posing that question to.

The Pioneer I used specs are:

power range: 50-400 watts RMS (200 watts RMS per coil)
peak power handling: 1,200 watt


Most Importantly:

sensitivity: 93 dB

[Strong Man]

Question for you...in MMI, what do you have the input signal dial set at for the Iphone through the AMI cable? If I leave it a zero, the output level is way lower than the SD Card. At first listen, there is definitely an improvement in audio quality, will need to load up a bunch of music to test this out.

I told you :))) Now I have a question for you too. B&O is well balanced system with + and - , and I'm frick of SQ as you...So , now when you're running from better audio source (as well try some original CD) how the sub sounds?! Isn't ahead of MF and HF ?!

Here are mine settings :

[fmzip]

^^^ The sub sounds that much better. Everything is tighter and cleaner. The issue I have now is the Iphone has a 16GB capacity and I have 64GB of MP3's , just bought a 64GB Iphone 4s off ebay for $60 :)

Not sure what this means "Isn't ahead of MF and HF ?! "

[Strong Man]

^

Not sure what this means "Isn't ahead of MF and HF ?! "

MF- mid frequency
HF - High frequency

I mean doesn't the sub sounds much louder then another part of system ?

[fmzip]

MF- mid frequency
HF - High frequency

I mean doesn't the sub sounds much louder then another part of system ?

I'll do some critical listening tomorrow.

I so wish we could use lossless files.....

[Strong Man]

I so wish we could use lossless files.....

you can try some original CD...I have collection about 170-200 original CDs :) and still buying new CDs...I'm psycho :))) I was trying to avoid to do some changes in car audio system...because of you I gave up :)))) crazy :)))

[fmzip]

you can try some original CD...I have collection about 170-200 original CDs :) and still buying new CDs...I'm psycho :))) I was trying to avoid to do some changes in car audio system...because of you I gave up :)))) crazy :)))

I was done too....but somehow I just bought a 64GB Iphone. We are obsessed :)

[joeis8salt]

Great thread. Was about to buy an amp and amp kit but now I'm going to go with the sub first and see.

Quick question on the SD and the head unit. I don't have nav or 3G as a head unit. Is there a restriction on the SD card size for the system to read the card properly? I remember in my older mk5 there was a restriction like 2GB or something like that.

[doug97gxe]

Not sure who you are posing that question to.

The Pioneer I used specs are:

power range: 50-400 watts RMS (200 watts RMS per coil)
peak power handling: 1,200 watt


Most Importantly:

sensitivity: 93 dB

Ahhh peak.. I saw the picture and had that thought.. my sub is 1000 RMS so I thought that was similar


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[risc427]

Quick question on the SD and the head unit. I don't have nav or 3G as a head unit. Is there a restriction on the SD card size for the system to read the card properly? I remember in my older mk5 there was a restriction like 2GB or something like that

I believe the documented limit is 32GB per card. (2 slots available) I vaguely recall reading some folks stating they used 64GB cards (at capacity) without issue. The limitations are certainly higher than the old RNS days.

[Strong Man]

I'll do some critical listening tomorrow.

I so wish we could use lossless files.....

Any updates since ?!

[fmzip]

Great thread. Was about to buy an amp and amp kit but now I'm going to go with the sub first and see.

Quick question on the SD and the head unit. I don't have nav or 3G as a head unit. Is there a restriction on the SD card size for the system to read the card properly? I remember in my older mk5 there was a restriction like 2GB or something like that.

I read that there was a limitation too. Reason being, Windows doesn't let you format a card over 32GB to FAT 32. In order for the SD card to work, it has to be formatted to FAT 32 using a third party software. This one worked rather easily for me to format my 128GB SD card to Fat 32:

http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/guiformat.exe

Any updates since ?!

Want to listen to both sources for a few days before I report back...Don't spend a lot of time in the car ;)

[Audi403]

Great thread, just have a couple questions I was hoping someone can help me with. I'm going to be running a JL 12W6v3 with the JL Slash V3 amp. This amp has the ability to use high level input, so I wasn't planning on using a LOC. I've read in this thread that the LC2 is also used for restoring low bass levels that the factory head-unit may cut levels too. Is this a true statement for a non-B&O B8 S4? Will I be losing sound quality by not using an LOC?

This is the amp I have. I ordered the remote bass control knob with the amp which I plan on running to my center console. Now my concern is, if I do get the LC2, would I want to use it's optional bass level remote or the one for my amp? It seems pretty redundant.

[Audi403]

Great thread, just have a couple questions I was hoping someone can help me with. I'm going to be running a JL 12W6v3 with the JL Slash V3 amp. This amp has the ability to use high level input, so I wasn't planning on using a LOC. I've read in this thread that the LC2 is also used for restoring low bass levels that the factory head-unit may cut levels too. Is this a true statement for a non-B&O B8 S4? Will I be losing sound quality by not using an LOC?

This is the amp I have. I ordered the remote bass control knob with the amp which I plan on running to my center console. Now my concern is, if I do get the LC2, would I want to use it's optional bass level remote or the one for my amp? It seems pretty redundant.

If anyone has some information on this that would be great. Here is some info I found on another forum from a professional who has done hundreds of installs using OEM headunits:

"always go for an amp with high level inputs when dealing with OEM integration. external LOC's can generate noise and ground loops - avoid them whenever possible. besides, they are extra cost and wiring hassle that - spend that money on a better amp"

"you don't need a LOC when you have high level inputs. on low quality amplifiers, maybe the high level inputs aren't the best. but one thing to consider is that some head unit outputs are "balanced" or "bridged" for more power. a LOC will convert to unbalanced, but some amps can use that balanced signal for both noise rejection and increased gain. there are too many variables to make a general statement, but the take away message is that high level inputs in the amps are usually a better option than external."

[doug97gxe]

If anyone has some information on this that would be great. Here is some info I found on another forum from a professional who has done hundreds of installs using OEM headunits:

"always go for an amp with high level inputs when dealing with OEM integration. external LOC's can generate noise and ground loops - avoid them whenever possible. besides, they are extra cost and wiring hassle that - spend that money on a better amp"

"you don't need a LOC when you have high level inputs. on low quality amplifiers, maybe the high level inputs aren't the best. but one thing to consider is that some head unit outputs are "balanced" or "bridged" for more power. a LOC will convert to unbalanced, but some amps can use that balanced signal for both noise rejection and increased gain. there are too many variables to make a general statement, but the take away message is that high level inputs in the amps are usually a better option than external."

take Audio professionals advice with a grain of salt.. most of them have an ulterior motive or brained washed by someone else. check LOC like the PAC will cause noice and ground loops.. the LC2i is far best LOC you can buy when adding a sub, many here have used it .. i personally have used it and have had no issues... i will not beat a dead horse with a stick and not share my JL opinion

[Audi403]

take Audio professionals advice with a grain of salt.. most of them have an ulterior motive or brained washed by someone else. check LOC like the PAC will cause noice and ground loops.. the LC2i is far best LOC you can buy when adding a sub, many here have used it .. i personally have used it and have had no issues... i will not beat a dead horse with a stick and not share my JL opinion

No one cares about your JL opinion and that's not what's being asked. The question is regarding the quality of using high level inputs vs LOC.

Obvious disadvantages of LOC:
- Extra Wiring
- Additional costs

Possible advantage:
- Could possibly restore some bass levels that are cut from factory headunits

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209357588-Differential-Balanced-Inputs?mobile_site=true

This article explains how JL's differential inputs work and why you don't need a line out converter. I emailed JL support and they said they recommend only using a line out converter if the speaker output is greater than 8v.

Does anyone know what the speaker level output is for a B8 S4 with non b&o?

[doug97gxe]

No one cares about your JL opinion and that's not what's being asked. The question is regarding the quality of using high level inputs vs LOC.

Obvious disadvantages of LOC:
- Extra Wiring
- Additional costs

Possible advantage:
- Could possibly restore some bass levels that are cut from factory headunits

https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...bile_site=true

This article explains how JL's differential inputs work and why you don't need a line out converter. I emailed JL support and they said they recommend only using a line out converter if the speaker output is greater than 8v.

Does anyone know what the speaker level output is for a B8 S4 with non b&o?

I actually answered you question... no need to get sensitive about your product choice

[Audi403]

I actually answered you question... no need to get sensitive about your product choice

You literally did not answer any of my questions. My question was regarding high level Inputs vs Line out converters. You telling me you use a LOC and have no problems, does not compare this to high level inputs and does not mention and pro's or cons of this option.

The thing I've found with forums is one person will so something a certain way, and most people will follow blind. I'm more interested in facts and certainly am not interested in people's opinions on brand choices because that's not what this is about.

[doug97gxe]

You literally did not answer any of my questions. My question was regarding high level Inputs vs Line out converters. You telling me you use a LOC and have no problems, does not compare this to high level inputs and does not mention and pro's or cons of this option.

The thing I've found with forums is one person will so something a certain way, and most people will follow blind. I'm more interested in facts and certainly am not interested in people's opinions on brand choices because that's not what this is about.

unfortunately you maybe on your own in this journey of LOC vs high input amplifiers .. i believe most people do both.. my experience is based on using 3 LOC and which one worked best. Good Luck on your travels

[fmzip]

I had a JL Amp with the bass control knob you mention. I also had an old school Phoenix Gold Titanium amp with a similar function. However, the Phoenix gold would dial up and down the output of the sub, the JL would act more like a bass control knob instead. The Phoenix Gold approach was superior to JL's approach, it allowed you to adjust the output up or down 20db. Is this the type of control the LC2i offers? If so, they are not one in the same



Since you already have the AMP, get yourself a cheap meter and measure the voltage to see if it exceeds what JL reccomends. Their knob is helpful to add more bass but it's not the most ideal approach. If I could have one knob though I'd want one for output. The JL knob doesn't do that

[white fish]

Im using an Alpine MRV-M500 hooked up to my Non B&O with JL 10W0 in the rear deck
I m not completely happy
started by connecting all 4 line levels to the single sub wire = at 80hz gain in the middle db at 0 it would "clip" very easy
cut 2 of the line level inputs = lowed to 60hz gain in middle still "clips" but not as easy

Im real issuse is that it "Pops" when I start the car
this amp uses the high levels as remote turn on

[fmzip]

Im using an Alpine MRV-M500 hooked up to my Non B&O with JL 10W0 in the rear deck
I m not completely happy
started by connecting all 4 line levels to the single sub wire = at 80hz gain in the middle db at 0 it would "clip" very easy
cut 2 of the line level inputs = lowed to 60hz gain in middle still "clips" but not as easy

Im real issuse is that it "Pops" when I start the car
this amp uses the high levels as remote turn on

You need something like this to add a delay to eliminate the pop:

http://www.davidnavone.com/cat_amp.htm

[Audi403]

I had a JL Amp with the bass control knob you mention. I also had an old school Phoenix Gold Titanium amp with a similar function. However, the Phoenix gold would dial up and down the output of the sub, the JL would act more like a bass control knob instead. The Phoenix Gold approach was superior to JL's approach, it allowed you to adjust the output up or down 20db. Is this the type of control the LC2i offers? If so, they are not one in the same



Since you already have the AMP, get yourself a cheap meter and measure the voltage to see if it exceeds what JL reccomends. Their knob is helpful to add more bass but it's not the most ideal approach. If I could have one knob though I'd want one for output. The JL knob doesn't do that

Oh thanks for that, I wasn't aware that's how the JL remote bass control worked. I do have a meter at home but haven't started the install yet, currently waiting for my goodies to arrive from JL. I've wired 3 sets of subs before but it was always to an aftermarket headunit with pre-amp outs, hence my lack of knowledge regarding LOC's and high level inputs.

[Audi403]

To anyone who put an aftermarket sub in a box in the trunk, did you leave the stock sub mounted or remove it? Wondering if removing it will make the new subwoofer more audible, or cause extra rattles in the rear deck. Planning to dynamat that area as well...

[ambesolman]

I have a '14 s4 with b&o. It's by far the best factory system I've had, but like y'all, am thinking about adding a sub.
Instead of eliminating the factory sub when installing a new one, is it possible to use it as a dedicated midbass sub? I know you'd need someway to split the sub signal and apply filters to keep the deeper bass out of the factory sub, but anyone know exactly how one would go about doing this?


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[14S4GWM]

I have a '14 s4 with b&o. It's by far the best factory system I've had, but like y'all, am thinking about adding a sub.
Instead of eliminating the factory sub when installing a new one, is it possible to use it as a dedicated midbass sub? I know you'd need someway to split the sub signal and apply filters to keep the deeper bass out of the factory sub, but anyone know exactly how one would go about doing this?


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Dont waste your time, not worth it at all

[Strong Man]

Want to listen to both sources for a few days before I report back...Don't spend a lot of time in the car ;)

Hi there,
Still waiting for your results:)

[fmzip]

Hi there,
Still waiting for your results:)

Spent 4 hours in the car yesterday :)

I think it sounds great. The sub doesn't overpower anything. It seems to blend perfect with the factory setup.

[fmzip]

To anyone who put an aftermarket sub in a box in the trunk, did you leave the stock sub mounted or remove it? Wondering if removing it will make the new subwoofer more audible, or cause extra rattles in the rear deck. Planning to dynamat that area as well...

I doubt it would make it more audible the paper woofer isn't going to block the sound waves.

However, there could be some rattling from the deck as there is a wire harness that goes across it. It's just clipped in there somewhat loosely.

I would think that you will likely hear some rattles with a nice sub box, the Audi itself seems a bit loosely manufactured to some degree. My dash rattles without much road interference with the stereo off ;)

[ambesolman]

Dont waste your time, not worth it at all

Can you please elaborate a little? I'm more of a home theater guy but I've always had aftermarket systems in my cars. I'm on avsforum and have met a bunch of guys that have added midbass subs to their systems with good results. It would seem that any amp with high and low pass filters would be able to achieve this. Has anyone tried it?


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