The definitive stereo and subwoofer upgrade thread

[svenson14]

The ACM has two outputs. I assumed that each could be wired individually to the dual voice coils on the sub. Is that not correct?

Regarding fitting the sub in the shelf, a number of us have done this already. Scroll back to the earlier pages in this thread for the details.

You're using a 2 Channel on one speaker? I've never heard of that, but I don't see why that wouldn't work.

The TSW261D4 must have a shallower Bezel/Ring than the 10" Shallow ts-sw2501s4. I tried and there was no way it would fit between the metal deck and the deck cover... oven if if I designed the perfect, angled bracket to be rapid prototyped.

Does that RAW261D4 work well in an Open Baffle?

From the reviews I have seen yes the app and mic is accurate. Seems the old large rta is going the way of the dodo bird. The mic impacts some, one could argue that this $25 mic is not as precise as the $200 versions. But for what I was doing and trying to see it works very well. Both get great reviews from audiophiles.

Wait, what are you plugging the Mic into? And why wouldn't you just take straight from the RCA to analyze the signal instead of the sound.

[Cooper993]

You're using a 2 Channel on one speaker? I've never heard of that, but I don't see why that wouldn't work.

The TSW261D4 must have a shallower Bezel/Ring than the 10" Shallow ts-sw2501s4. I tried and there was no way it would fit between the metal deck and the deck cover... oven if if I designed the perfect, angled bracket to be rapid prototyped.

Does that RAW261D4 work well in an Open Baffle?

I haven't done the ACM yet. Was only considering this as a possible next step. If I decide to go this route, I will contact the company and check first.

The sub fit fine. I made an angled ring, attached the ring to the sub then lowered the complete assembly into the deck lid.

The sound improvements are contingent on the music. For less $100 it was worth it. Was just looking for a little more, that's why I'm considering the ACM.

[mikey7182]

The ACM 1.300 is a mono amplifier. It’s rated at 1x175@4 or 1x300@2. It has a pair of outputs to connect 2 speakers but it is internally bridged or summed. Some manufacturers do this rather than having you wire subs or coils in parallel.

[cspcrx]

Wait, what are you plugging the Mic into? And why wouldn't you just take straight from the RCA to analyze the signal instead of the sound.[/QUOTE]

Using the mic to get a sense of the system overall performance. What RCA? The stock stereo has no RCA outputs that I am aware of.

[Drunktank]

Finally the sub install. I got 10" Audison sub in a premade from the custom subwoofer shop on Etsy. Quality on these enclosures is great. Installation for me was not as easy as the youtube videos made it look. Had to drill the hole twice and the order seemed a bit off in the instructions. If you mount the rod you cannot close the compartment to drill the hole through the pocket.

Looks great! I had to go back and watch the video myself. It actually said to leave the rod "loose" and it folds down behind the pocket when drilling the hole, but if you're using locknuts, yeah that's a different story : )

Using the mic to get a sense of the system overall performance. What RCA? The stock stereo has no RCA outputs that I am aware of.

I think he probably assumed you were using a separate line out converter and used signal from that to measure.

So i've seen reference to people running aftermarket subs off the OEM amp. Then others are obviously installing amps to power subs. Is there a definitive RMS that requires an aftermarket amp? Loving the side panel enclosures. After my last run with fiberglass I can appreciate the work that's gone into the the production of clean boxes. Has anybody had luck with dual 8's or 10's in both trunk cubbies with full hidden amp(s)?

I think the consensus is the stock amp sub channel was rated at 80 watts, but I don't know exactly where that came from or how many ohms that's at. I would say anything in a box is going to require an aftermarket amp. Haven't seen anyone post any pictures yet of dual 8" or 10"s, but I'm sure it's been done. Could also go with one 12".

[cspcrx]

I think your right if it was loose with the nuts provided it would totally fall back behind the pocket. You may be right no line out converter since the ACM 1.300 has it built in. You could do this though by taking a mic that was made for ipads and cutting the mic off, or even cutting up a pair of headphones with a mic in it. You just separate the ground and mic signal wire and connect that to the sub out leads from the stock amp. That is one of those things a true RTA can do.

I still think I need to play with the Accubass on the amp. I do not know for sure if the B&O system rolls the bass off as the volume increases. I did not see any signs of that when playing around with the pink noise when it was all stock. If that is the case I am not sure how to set the Accubass properly. There are two adjustments for it, threshold and level. I still feel like that may not be set right. Its been 107-109 degrees out and not much cooler in the garage so sitting out there playing with it for extended times gets to be a bit tiring.

[svenson14]

I haven't done the ACM yet. Was only considering this as a possible next step. If I decide to go this route, I will contact the company and check first.

The sub fit fine. I made an angled ring, attached the ring to the sub then lowered the complete assembly into the deck lid.

The sound improvements are contingent on the music. For less $100 it was worth it. Was just looking for a little more, that's why I'm considering the ACM.

The ACM-1.300 is a single channel Amp. So like Mikey7182 said, it may have two connections, but the resistance from the two coils will be either 8 (if series) or 2 (if parallel).

Wait, what are you plugging the Mic into? And why wouldn't you just take straight from the RCA to analyze the signal instead of the sound.

Using the mic to get a sense of the system overall performance. What RCA? The stock stereo has no RCA outputs that I am aware of.[/QUOTE]

Yes, If you're using an LC2i, you would feed the RCA jack directly into an RTA to analyze the Signal rather than the acoustics. So what are you plugging the microphone into with the "app?" Your Laptop?

I just finished my build ( I need to post still), and I'm convinced my LC2i is not tuned right, but the local shops don't seem to use RTAs, or understand Roll-off.

[cspcrx]

No LC2i, it is built into the ACM 1.300 it is one of the nice things about that amp is LC2i and amp all in one!

I was phase testing all of the speakers today they were all in phase minus the sub. Checked the wiring from the amp to the sub, 9v battery trick and that was wired properly. Then it hit me, the stock sub fires the wrong way so its actually out of phase stock. So if you look at the info I posted previously the blue/yellow is negative and the white/yellow is positive. Well if your using this signal for an aftermarket amp and sub you need to switch them around when connecting to the amp. Run the blue/yellow to the + input and the white/yellow to the - input. Now my sub is in phase.

As for tuning I am with you. Playing with the accubass setting I am certain our stereo does not roll off the bass. I believe this is because it already has a stock subwoofer. In all of the RTA scanning I did I could find no sign of the bass suddenly rolling off as the volume increase. At this point I have turned threshold all the way to the left and dialed the level to be fairly flat on the RTA and to my liking.

[jquattro]

Hi again, I'm installing the Audison 3" speakers in the dash and need some help understanding how you get them back into the openings? I can't tilt them enough to get them to drop in.

Help??

[cspcrx]

put them in like your putting them in upside down and roll them into place. If that makes sense.

[Cooper993]

Hi again, I'm installing the Audison 3" speakers in the dash and need some help understanding how you get them back into the openings? I can't tilt them enough to get them to drop in.

Help??

I did mine last night. As cspcxr says, you place them with the magnet facing up, put the edge of the speaker into the hole, then flip the speaker 180 degrees into place. Took me a few minutes to figure it out myself.

[waxxonMTL]

damn it, i should do mine ! how you like the sound ? ANy tip to pop the fragile B&O cover ?

[cspcrx]

There is a video on youtube showing it being done. I used the plastic interior trim tools they sell to get mine out. That was what scared me the most actually. After getting the first one off, like always the second went much easier.

[jquattro]

Got it! Thanks.

The grills pop off pretty easy with a plastic trim tool.

[cybernet99]

There’s nothing quite like a good flocking...

I flocked my tweeter pods for the doors today. Now I have to wait until tomorrow brush off the excess and see how they look.

So far it looks like it will work out well.

After flocking


Before flocking


Test fit before primer and paint


Finally, ready to mount and run wires into doors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[waxxonMTL]

very niceee !! good job

[cspcrx]

Those look awesome

[cybernet99]

Here is the final installation in the car, and a short sound clip.

Installed in doors and enjoying



Quick video clip of them playing ...

[mikey7182]

0FB424CB-6922-4890-ACA5-58C80C0677AE.jpgMy 18” infinite baffle is finally under way! Here’s a teaser shot. Note the grill shape :D

[juniorcruzer]

wozers, that is a biggin. I used to be a bass head, but more in the sound quality these days....maybe it is because I'm half deaf from being a bass head......

Jon

[cspcrx]

WOW! Go big or go home I guess. Curious to see how that turns out. Looks like good progress so far.

[mikey7182]

Update: The IB wall and amp rack are complete. It is quite similar to the setup I had in my 2010 Passat (if it ain't broke... :D ) with a few changes, and far better fabrication thanks to Jon and the crew at Handcrafted Car Audio in Chandler.

I requested that the grill design take cues from the Audi RS4 grill. I also requested that I retain access to the floor hooks for the storage net. The corners are sealed off on the back side of the baffle.

The IB wall is 4" thick- a double 3/4" baffle, followed by another two layers of 3/4" for reinforcement and excursion clearance, and a double 1/2" grill layer over the front. The grill is still being finished as we are waiting on mesh and Audi rings.



The amp rack is constructed from aluminum sheet. The tolerances were incredibly tight with all the gear and the sub motor, especially pushing the IB wall far enough in to the trunk that I could retain most of my trunk space. Here is the test fitting:



One thing I didn't do in the Passat was seal the rear deck. I decided to do that in the S4. Jon removed the factory subwoofer and made ABS templates of the exposed holes for the sub and others that were stamped into the rear deck, securing them in place with adhesive, then finishing with the same dampener treatment that the front doors received.







The baffle was finished in black/charcoal carpet that closely matches the factory trunk liner, with the grill trim finished in the same black vinyl that was used on the kick panels. The grill insert will be heavy gauge honeycomb mesh, and hopefully will incorporate some Audi rings to mimic the factory grill. :) Still sorting out details on that.

The amps were modified to be internally bridged, to bypass all the filters, and have fixed gains, so no access to the terminals is needed after initial install, which makes for a clean look and allows the wiring to be hidden (still wiring things up at the time these pics were taken):



Two Gladen xs75c6 on the upper level (L+R) which will each run their respective side of the front stage. A single Gladen SPL1800c1 is centered beneath the sub it will power. I really like the symmetry of this. A Mosconi 6to8 Aerospace is on the driver side for processing, and distribution is on the passenger side. The moBridge DA3 is installed next to the factory amp where it converts the MOST signal to SPDIF.



The aluminum rack is secured to the trunk floor with rivnuts. It doubles as a lower support brace for the IB wall, with four 90* tabs extending off the back side of the base that are bolted to the baffle. The top of the baffle is secured with two large, thick gauge brackets that are bolted to the underside of the rear deck and flank the subwoofer on the baffle.



And here is the behemoth- the B&C 18DS115, in its new home, surrounded by the RS4-inspired grill. The baffle is surrounded on its perimeter with high density foam for a snug fit, and I'll probably reinforce a few areas in the corners if I have any audible "leakage" so to speak. Overall, it's solid as a rock!



I ordered some custom-length RCAs last night that use Mogami 2964 cable and Neutrik-Rean NYS connectors. I'll have to pull the rack to wire everything up, then re-install. I also need to use VCDS to change the setting in the Audio menu that allows the MOST signal to be used by the DA3. I am hoping to have this up and running by next week. :cool:

[FromRagsToS4]

Wow! Great writeup! No overheating issues with those amps not having any circulation?

[mikey7182]

Wow! Great writeup! No overheating issues with those amps not having any circulation?

Thanks! It is Arizona, and I haven't powered everything up yet (still waiting on the cables to arrive). But I ran these same series amps in my Passat and they never had a problem. The mesh on the side that is visible in the pics helps dissipate heat. I do have fans for them all (which you can see the holes for on the ends where the round cutouts and mounting holes are), but it would require removing the ends and wiring them in, so I'm not going to do anything until I've run them hard for a few days and see how they do.

The biggest advantage I have is I am running everything at 8 ohms mono. All my speakers are 8 ohm drivers, and very efficient, and I have a lot of power on tap that I likely won't be using, so between all the headroom and the 8 ohm load, the amps shouldn't be working very hard at all. That sub amp is rated at 1800x1@1 or 2 ohms. I'll be seeing about 600@8 ohms, and I doubt I'll use half of that seeing as how the sub is 98db efficient and will reach xmax quickly in an IB configuration. :)

[cybernet99]

Update: The IB wall and amp rack are complete. It is quite similar to the setup I had in my 2010 Passat (if it ain't broke... :D ) with a few changes, and far better fabrication thanks to Jon and the crew at Handcrafted Car Audio in Chandler.

I requested that the grill design take cues from the Audi RS4 grill. I also requested that I retain access to the floor hooks for the storage net. The corners are sealed off on the back side of the baffle.

The IB wall is 4" thick- a double 3/4" baffle, followed by another two layers of 3/4" for reinforcement and excursion clearance, and a double 1/2" grill layer over the front. The grill is still being finished as we are waiting on mesh and Audi rings.



The amp rack is constructed from aluminum sheet. The tolerances were incredibly tight with all the gear and the sub motor, especially pushing the IB wall far enough in to the trunk that I could retain most of my trunk space. Here is the test fitting:



One thing I didn't do in the Passat was seal the rear deck. I decided to do that in the S4. Jon removed the factory subwoofer and made ABS templates of the exposed holes for the sub and others that were stamped into the rear deck, securing them in place with adhesive, then finishing with the same dampener treatment that the front doors received.







The baffle was finished in black/charcoal carpet that closely matches the factory trunk liner, with the grill trim finished in the same black vinyl that was used on the kick panels. The grill insert will be heavy gauge honeycomb mesh, and hopefully will incorporate some Audi rings to mimic the factory grill. :) Still sorting out details on that.

The amps were modified to be internally bridged, to bypass all the filters, and have fixed gains, so no access to the terminals is needed after initial install, which makes for a clean look and allows the wiring to be hidden (still wiring things up at the time these pics were taken):



Two Gladen xs75c6 on the upper level (L+R) which will each run their respective side of the front stage. A single Gladen SPL1800c1 is centered beneath the sub it will power. I really like the symmetry of this. A Mosconi 6to8 Aerospace is on the driver side for processing, and distribution is on the passenger side. The moBridge DA3 is installed next to the factory amp where it converts the MOST signal to SPDIF.



The aluminum rack is secured to the trunk floor with rivnuts. It doubles as a lower support brace for the IB wall, with four 90* tabs extending off the back side of the base that are bolted to the baffle. The top of the baffle is secured with two large, thick gauge brackets that are bolted to the underside of the rear deck and flank the subwoofer on the baffle.



And here is the behemoth- the B&C 18DS115, in its new home, surrounded by the RS4-inspired grill. The baffle is surrounded on its perimeter with high density foam for a snug fit, and I'll probably reinforce a few areas in the corners if I have any audible "leakage" so to speak. Overall, it's solid as a rock!



I ordered some custom-length RCAs last night that use Mogami 2964 cable and Neutrik-Rean NYS connectors. I'll have to pull the rack to wire everything up, then re-install. I also need to use VCDS to change the setting in the Audio menu that allows the MOST signal to be used by the DA3. I am hoping to have this up and running by next week. :cool:

Wow! That's looking bloody Awesome! If I ever make it down to your neck of the woods, would love to meet up and see and hear it in person! Well done! :)

[Fresh.S4]

dont want to read through 18 pages if i dont need to.... can I/ is it worth it to just swap out the stock sub? I really dont want to get into too much rewiring. I have BO audi.

[mikey7182]

Wow! That's looking bloody Awesome! If I ever make it down to your neck of the woods, would love to meet up and see and hear it in person! Well done! :)

Definitely! I’m looking forward to firing it up myself!

[svenson14]

Hi All,
It took me a while, but after ~76 hrs, I've mostly finished my B8.5 non-B&O upgrade and wanted to provide a couple takeaways for others thinking or making an upgrade:

Important Notes/Takeaways from B8.5 Non B&O build:

1. The opening in the rear deck is 9" diameter. The Pioneer TS-SW2502S4 will not fit, regardless of spacer(s).
2. The non-B&O sound system sounds better as soon as that PoS OEM 8" is removed. REMOVE IT or unplug it. Do not leave it plugged in.
3. An Open/Infinite Baffle approach using the 8" Shallow Pioneer sounds like shit. Local shop said it sounded hollow because of the lack of enclosure. I will be changing to an enclosed.
4. The front and rear speakers are not the same. 8" on the front and ~6.5" on the back. Avantagg had a great write up that I believe confirms the SAK108 and SAK129 from Car-Speaker-Adapters.com will work.
5. I found a great write up here to modify the stock tweeter sails. You just need a #58 drill bit. I recommend a drafting compass to mark the circle for which 100+ holes you'll drill out.
6. If you're going to do the Coin Holder Delete Sub Remote Mod, make sure that to surface is as smooth as glass. Vinyl will still show imperfections. I used JB weld plastic putty. Also, don't use the nut & thread. The knob will stick up to high.
7. The GTO function of the LC2i worked great for me when plugging into the Sub wiring. I'm not sure why others have had problems.

Build Details:

• 8" Pioneer Shallow Mount TS-SW2002D2
• Custom 3/8" MDF Spacer
• Alpine MVR-M500 Amp
• Alpine RUX-KNOB Remote
• AudioControl LC2i Line Out Converter
• 2X Hertz Dieci 165.3 6.5" Component Front and Back...not amplified (TBD)
• Audiopipe Nippon MDF Rings + Custom MDF <--I don't recommend
• Noico 80 mil Sound Deadening

Will give update once I fix the sub...likely will go with the 10" TS-SWX2502. Reviews look good and I really want to stick to the shallow.

[jquattro]

don't want to read through 18 pages if i don't need to.... can I/ is it worth it to just swap out the stock sub? I really don't want to get into too much rewiring. I have BO Audi.

It is absolutely the best single thing you can do to your sound system! Check out Chris Bowen's site in Etsy. I put an 8" JL unit in mine, but I could see where a 10" may make you happier? I'm an old guy and don't care for the way the new rap music hammers you with unnecessary bass all the time, so the 8" is perfect for me. Then you need an LC2i and an Amp to drive the speaker. Definitely do it!!!

[cspcrx]

That looks great, nice clear install. I have to agree and I very happy with my sub from Chris on etsy. It just seems to match the sound system so well.

[gab5]

Got it. I'm actually in the AV biz (buildings not cars) and had never heard that contraction. Yes it makes a huge difference in how the speaker should be constructed as the acoustic load is considerably less and the excursion considerably more than a speaker in a sealed or even ported box. I think if I were to take on a sub project I would fabricate a shallow enclosure and fasten it to the underside of the deck, reinforced and sealed of course. I can't imagine taking up a chunk o the trunk with a box and I couldn't ever understand the idea of putting a bunch of cushioned and hard obstruction between the speaker and the passenger cabin anyway.

Anyone have a pic of something like this? Looking for ideas to reverse mount (down-firing) sub with a shallow box mounted to the underside of the rear deck.

[KLX]

What was your process for wiring up the remote wire for the amp?

[svenson14]

That looks great, nice clear install. I have to agree and I very happy with my sub from Chris on etsy. It just seems to match the sound system so well.

Thanks. The Etsy box is tempting, but it seemed way to pricey for what it was.

Anyone have a pic of something like this? Looking for ideas to reverse mount (down-firing) sub with a shallow box mounted to the underside of the rear deck.

I would like to see this too. I debate making my own enclosure to save a little space.

What was your process for wiring up the remote wire for the amp?

Simply wire the Remote Out of the LC2i to the Remote In of the Amp. The LC2i turns on everything once it detects a signal from the speaker/subs wires.

[Drunktank]

And here is the behemoth- the B&C 18DS115, in its new home, surrounded by the RS4-inspired grill. The baffle is surrounded on its perimeter with high density foam for a snug fit, and I'll probably reinforce a few areas in the corners if I have any audible "leakage" so to speak. Overall, it's solid as a rock!

Ho-ly-shit. I love the dedication to forego folding the seats down for long item storage. What kind of stuff do you normally listen to?

Thanks. The Etsy box is tempting, but it seemed way to pricey for what it was.

Here's how I thought about it. The cheapest I can find the Audison sub for is around $250. That's means a hand made fiberglass box, made specifically for my car where I don't have to cut any carpet out or use up any trunk space, is basically $350. I know if I contact a stereo shop and ask them to reproduce this box, they would easily quote me over $1k with the driver.

Anyone have a pic of something like this? Looking for ideas to reverse mount (down-firing) sub with a shallow box mounted to the underside of the rear deck.

As far as I know, this hasn't been done yet. At least I've never seen one. I originally had my amp rack on the underneath side of the deck, and I was really surprised how much I missed those extra couple inches of trunk height when putting stuff into the trunk. I ended up relocating the amp behind the left trunk door like everyone else.

[cspcrx]

That was my thinking on the Etsy box as well. I shopped it and spoke to two different local shops for a custom sub box. Anything made to go into the side was starting at $750. Heck even one that was going to mount under the shelf was going to be $500. I think its really a great buy and I am super happy with the quality.

[Fresh.S4]

no options to replace the rear deck sub and add a better amp?

[cybernet99]

I think I’ve gone with a unique option. JL Audio 12” in the rear parcel tray, but I’ve built my enclosure so that the sub sits quite high into the top of the rear parcel tray.

I did this to allow for as much trunk space as possible, while still retaining a killer sub.

This is the very start of the fabrication. The sub sits up above the rear deck 2”, and I will allow for 3” for excursion.


Here is another shot from underneath showing how high the sub goes up above the parcel tray.


It’s a dual 4ohm voice coil so it wired as an eight ohm load right now, but will be running as a two ohm load with the kicker amp.

It will end up being a sealed enclosure only sitting down 3” into the trunk on one side and 8” directly under the sub on the drivers side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fresh.S4]

has it already been discussed how much power the stock unit is?/ size?

I have a snazzy kenwood 5x9? self powered underseat sub. i wonder if i could wire that in, instead and run it under the seat..... I have one in my wifes tiggy and it kinda helps............................................. ......

[gab5]

I think I’ve gone with a unique option. JL Audio 12” in the rear parcel tray, but I’ve built my enclosure so that the sub sits quite high into the top of the rear parcel tray.

I did this to allow for as much trunk space as possible, while still retaining a killer sub.

This is the very start of the fabrication. The sub sits up above the rear deck 2”, and I will allow for 3” for excursion.


Here is another shot from underneath showing how high the sub goes up above the parcel tray.


It’s a dual 4ohm voice coil so it wired as an eight ohm load right now, but will be running as a two ohm load with the kicker amp.

It will end up being a sealed enclosure only sitting down 3” into the trunk on one side and 8” directly under the sub on the drivers side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have any more pics?

[gab5]

As far as I know, this hasn't been done yet. At least I've never seen one. I originally had my amp rack on the underneath side of the deck, and I was really surprised how much I missed those extra couple inches of trunk height when putting stuff into the trunk. I ended up relocating the amp behind the left trunk door like everyone else.

This is what I am worried about too. Do you have any pics of how low your amp rack sat under the rear deck?