The definitive stereo and subwoofer upgrade thread

[willms81]

Finally finished the Pioneer sub install last night.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another forum but someone linked a 3/4" mdf ring from Amazon.

This is too thick. I think 1/2" would be the sweet spot. Had to shave an angle into the back side to seat property, then ended having to shave the bottom of the front to get it low enough to clear the rear deck cover. I used a thin layer of rope caulk between the sub and ring, and the ring and the deck also.

I used sound deadening on the top and bottom of the rear deck to make sure I covered any holes and alleviate any potential rattles. I absolutely despise rattling in a car stereo.

Initial response is good. Definitely adds a little more bottom end to the OEM setup, which was what I was looking for.

Even turned up, I had no interior or exterior rattles.

Keep in mind this won't rattle your neighbor's windows, but compliments the B&O system to the point it should have been stock to begin with.

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[CardFan]

Cardfan, I’m glad you finally have this installed. If you’re not doing this already, run it in series so the amp sees a ~16ohm load. You will lose ~6 dB but will gain a ton of headroom and it will sound much cleaner. I thought AE was nuts when they suggested it but they were spot on. Also reverse the polarity so the driver is pushing into the cabin versus how the stock sub is wired. There is a lot of debate on this topic, I can only speak to the AE sub.

Thanks BKE. I had run across the reverse polarity issue when researching so I think I’ve got that one covered. I’m a bit stereo wiring illiterate though so I’m struggling with how to wire this in series? I only see one set of connections on the sub so I’m assuming it’s a SVC, and so I’m not sure what I can do?

[fmzip]

Finally finished the Pioneer sub install last night.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another forum but someone linked a 3/4" mdf ring from Amazon.

This is too thick. I think 1/2" would be the sweet spot. Had to shave an angle into the back side to seat property, then ended having to shave the bottom of the front to get it low enough to clear the rear deck cover. I used a thin layer of rope caulk between the sub and ring, and the ring and the deck also.

I used sound deadening on the top and bottom of the rear deck to make sure I covered any holes and alleviate any potential rattles. I absolutely despise rattling in a car stereo.

Initial response is good. Definitely adds a little more bottom end to the OEM setup, which was what I was looking for.

Even turned up, I had no interior or exterior rattles.

Keep in mind this won't rattle your neighbor's windows, but compliments the B&O system to the point it should have been stock to begin with.

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Glad to hear it!

[fmzip]

Thanks BKE. I had run across the reverse polarity issue when researching so I think I’ve got that one covered. I’m a bit stereo wiring illiterate though so I’m struggling with how to wire this in series? I only see one set of connections on the sub so I’m assuming it’s a SVC, and so I’m not sure what I can do?

I'm a bit lost on how you'd wire a SVC 8 ohm sub in series as well...

[Phoang1988]

So is the pioneer sub the best one to go in the rear deck? I had a spare jl 10w0v3-4 laying around and decided to put that in. I don’t think it sounds very good and there’s probably something better out there for free air usage. I’m debating on getting the pioneer since everyone seems to have good results or do a different JL sub if someone has a rec.

[Cooper993]

Finally finished the Pioneer sub install last night.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another forum but someone linked a 3/4" mdf ring from Amazon.

This is too thick. I think 1/2" would be the sweet spot. Had to shave an angle into the back side to seat property, then ended having to shave the bottom of the front to get it low enough to clear the rear deck cover. I used a thin layer of rope caulk between the sub and ring, and the ring and the deck also. ...

That's surprising to hear. I made my own angled ring and it was 3/4" in the front 2" in the rear. The rear was a little tight (1 3/4" would be perfect) but otherwise fit fine. However, I used foam insulating strips and not rope caulk.

[fmzip]

So is the pioneer sub the best one to go in the rear deck? I had a spare jl 10w0v3-4 laying around and decided to put that in. I don’t think it sounds very good and there’s probably something better out there for free air usage. I’m debating on getting the pioneer since everyone seems to have good results or do a different JL sub if someone has a rec.

The only JL would be an a very old IB/free air version which are not easy to find. The Pioneer is a great little sub for the money. Suggestion, put the Audison AP8's in your doors. I keep finding myself needing to turn the bass down with the AP8's and the Pioneer sub.

[fmzip]

Finally finished the Pioneer sub install last night.

Can't remember if it was this thread or another forum but someone linked a 3/4" mdf ring from Amazon.

This is too thick. I think 1/2" would be the sweet spot. Had to shave an angle into the back side to seat property, then ended having to shave the bottom of the front to get it low enough to clear the rear deck cover. I used a thin layer of rope caulk between the sub and ring, and the ring and the deck also.

I used sound deadening on the top and bottom of the rear deck to make sure I covered any holes and alleviate any potential rattles. I absolutely despise rattling in a car stereo.

Initial response is good. Definitely adds a little more bottom end to the OEM setup, which was what I was looking for.

Even turned up, I had no interior or exterior rattles.

Keep in mind this won't rattle your neighbor's windows, but compliments the B&O system to the point it should have been stock to begin with.

I think I may have posted that link. I fabricated mine out of 3/4 and mine fit but was also as tight as you could go without hitting the shelf

Agreed 1/2 would be ideal

[Phoang1988]

The only JL would be an a very old IB/free air version which are not easy to find. The Pioneer is a great little sub for the money. Suggestion, put the Audison AP8's in your doors. I keep finding myself needing to turn the bass down with the AP8's and the Pioneer sub.

What old JL would you suggest? Maybe I can source one from ebay or something. Otherwise, I have the pioneer on order from amazon for about $55 but it’s on backprder right now

[fmzip]

What old JL would you suggest? Maybe I can source one from ebay or something. Otherwise, I have the pioneer on order from amazon for about $55 but it’s on backprder right now

I can't tell ya....I'm watching Ebay too ;)

I believe it's a 10IB-8 that you need to find

If you want a really nice one:

http://aespeakers.com/shop/ibau-woofers/ib10au/

A few guys in this thread have this one, you'll need to cut the deck a bit

[DFS4]

I just installed the pioneer DVC in my non B&O B8.5, the original sub was 2 ohm and the pioneer is 4 ohm, I wired the VCs in parallel to maintain the 2 ohm rating, sounds better than stock but it may need an amp
next are the front speakers of some kind for the front doors

[PeteRock]

What old JL would you suggest? Maybe I can source one from ebay or something. Otherwise, I have the pioneer on order from amazon for about $55 but it’s on backprder right now

The Pioneer is available and in stock on Amazon....

Pioneer TSW261D4 10-Inch Champion/DUAL4 OHM/1200W/40 Equalizer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O8B7CBW..._S9jwAbYKS1CWG


Pete

[Audi403]

I've had this setup for awhile now but haven't got around to posting pictures. Here's my 12W6 setup powered by a Slash 600/1v3
Monoblock Class D amp with a 5 farad power cap. Yes 5 farad is overkill, but I got a good deal on it from a buddy :)

Power cap is mounted to the back of the right rear seat and amp is mounted to the back of the left rear seat (behind the sub box).

The remote bass control knob is mounted in the center console where the card/change holder used to be. I love this part. It allows me to dial in the bass level perfectly for each song. I use it pretty much every song.

System hits hard. I dynamatted everything in the back (entire trunk and both sides of the rear deck). Everything sounds great, only annoying rattle is from the rear brake light mounted on the rear windshield. I'm actually just about the rip it off and see what I can do (maybe a bead of silicone around it). The door panels rattle when it's turned up loud enough. They're next on my list for dynamatting as soon as we get some warmer weather.

[drmonkey]

No offense, but you got a "good deal" on the capacitor because your buddy sold you a worthless piece of snake oil. Those things do nothing but reduce the amount of voltage going to your amps; they provide no current out and only act as a buffer for the electrical system. All you're doing is starving your amps for voltage.

[doug97gxe]

No offense, but you got a "good deal" on the capacitor because your buddy sold you a worthless piece of snake oil. Those things do nothing but reduce the amount of voltage going to your amps; they provide no current out and only act as a buffer for the electrical system. All you're doing is starving your amps for voltage.

Lol I wanted to say something but I decided to keep quiet .. yes capacitors are useless and even for whT they are designed for which is to give the system a bit of juice on heavy bass notes that w6 isn’t coming near to a 1 farad cap

However we live we learn and we enjoy.. if u enjoy your setup then it was worth it to you


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[Audi403]

No offense, but you got a "good deal" on the capacitor because your buddy sold you a worthless piece of snake oil. Those things do nothing but reduce the amount of voltage going to your amps; they provide no current out and only act as a buffer for the electrical system. All you're doing is starving your amps for voltage.

A cap wired in parallel with an amp will not "starve it for voltage". Clearly you don't understand electricity.

Also worth noting, the Slash V3 puts out 600W rms regardless of input voltage. "The power supply adjusts its operation so as to maintain the amplifier's rated power output and low distortion operation over a wide range of vehicle voltages (11V-14.5 V)"

[drmonkey]

A cap wired in parallel with an amp will not "starve it for voltage". Clearly you don't understand electricity.

Capacitors are electrical buffering devices, they are not current-generating devices. I should have added in my original post that they are starved for voltage - as the alternator is recharging the capacitor. So, yes, they aren't always starved for voltage but when the amp spikes in voltage and draws it from the capacitor, the alternator now has to recharge that capacitor. It sounds great in theory but in reality it does nothing but affect how your amplifier performs.

This was a great read:

https://axleaddict.com/cars/Car-Audi...They-DONT-Work

I know how it works, I've been in the car audio game for many years. If you really wanted to do anything worthwhile then you'd do the Big 3 upgrade.

[Audi403]

Capacitors are electrical buffering devices, they are not current-generating devices. I should have added in my original post that they are starved for voltage - as the alternator is recharging the capacitor. So, yes, they aren't always starved for voltage but when the amp spikes in voltage and draws it from the capacitor, the alternator now has to recharge that capacitor. It sounds great in theory but in reality it does nothing but affect how your amplifier performs.

This was a great read:

https://axleaddict.com/cars/Car-Audi...They-DONT-Work

I know how it works, I've been in the car audio game for many years. If you really wanted to do anything worthwhile then you'd do the Big 3 upgrade.

Capacitors in a DC circuit store electrical energy. They are constantly charging and discharging when in parallel with a current drawing load. You are essentially placing a fast acting battery in parallel with your amp. The use of a capacitor will result in a smoother output voltage on the load. It is incorrect to say the cap will starve voltage to the amp.

You were correct to say the capacitor will not generate current. However, you are incorrect to say the capacitor will not supply current. This is exactly what it is doing when it discharges, and it does it very quickly.

My background is Electrical Engineering. I haven't spent a ton of time in the car audio world but those principles should hold up. Thanks for the link though, I'll check it out when I get some time later today.

Edit: The article is correct that the capacitor is not going to increase the capacity of total system current available. If your alternator is not able to supply enough current for your system, a capacitor is definitely not your solution. However, that is not my reasoning for using a capacitor.

Here is something I pulled from another site that explains it fairly well:

"The way a car audio capacitor works is that during normal operation, it is supplied with voltage from a car’s electrical system. That charges it up so that’s ready to go when it’s needed. If at some point the amplifier tries to draw more amperage than the electrical system is capable of putting out, resulting in a significant voltage drop at the amp, the capacitor will discharge. Since car audio capacitors are typically installed right next to the amp—or as close as possible—there is significantly less voltage voltage drop, and the whole electrical system is able to continue operating normally.

Since capacitors are able to charge and discharge very quickly, a car audio capacitor can be “refilled” whenever the power demands of the amp don’t require any extra juice."

[0000_S5]

I am enjoying the education and technical debate between Audi403 and drmonkey. Very interesting

Audi403, I wish I had a big ass sub like yours. Much better use of the trunk thank having my golf clubs in there. Based on my golf game, I am completely wasting the space in my trunk.


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[fmzip]

I am enjoying the education and technical debate between Audi403 and drmonkey. Very interesting

Audi403, I wish I had a big ass sub like yours. Much better use of the trunk thank having my golf clubs in there. Based on my golf game, I am completely wasting the space in my trunk.


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[Audi403]

I am enjoying the education and technical debate between Audi403 and drmonkey. Very interesting

Audi403, I wish I had a big ass sub like yours. Much better use of the trunk thank having my golf clubs in there. Based on my golf game, I am completely wasting the space in my trunk.


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I don't play golf

[Strong Man]

Here is something I pulled from another site that explains it fairly well:

"The way a car audio capacitor works is that during normal operation, it is supplied with voltage from a car’s electrical system. That charges it up so that’s ready to go when it’s needed. If at some point the amplifier tries to draw more amperage than the electrical system is capable of putting out, resulting in a significant voltage drop at the amp, the capacitor will discharge. Since car audio capacitors are typically installed right next to the amp—or as close as possible—there is significantly less voltage voltage drop, and the whole electrical system is able to continue operating normally.

Since capacitors are able to charge and discharge very quickly, a car audio capacitor can be “refilled” whenever the power demands of the amp don’t require any extra juice."

this is 100% correct .... The main idea by using big electrolytic capacitors for a car-audio systems is to improve!!! (NOT to Eliminate in 100%!!!) ripple factor.






Simple formula tells : for each 100watts 100mF . So, for example for system with in total 1000watts you need to use 1F capasitor

[Drunktank]

Lol, this argument is a staple on car audio forums. Someone inevitably posts a pic of their 5 farad cap and the flame war begins. You guys are way too civilized.

[B8_Dude97]

Might be a dumb question, I’m no audio head but would enclosing the rear deck subwoofer be of any benefit? I ask because I saw on trending someone doing it on another platform


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[Drunktank]

I guess it would all depend on the parameters for the stock driver, and I'm not sure how you'd find those out. Some are made for IB, some are made for big boxes, some are made for small boxes. They have different suspension stiffness, motor sizes, etc. depending on what it's made to do.

With that said, you couldn't make the stock driver worse, but it would take a good amount of work to build an air tight box around it.

[mikey7182]

I'm curious for those of you who have done the 8" upgrade in the front doors- is there any additional leeway for a larger woofer, so long as the depth remained at 3" or so? I know the factory grill is quite small, but frequencies under 300hz or so don't really suffer from being "blocked" like a midrange or a tweeter (think of what your sub has to overcome to travel from the trunk). Midbass, like sub bass, is maximized by increasing displacement, so I am looking to fit the largest driver in there possible. I haven't pulled my doors off yet to look at clearance on the back side of the panel, and it's hard to tell from the pics in this thread although this has been very informative!

As a point of reference, I have been involved in car audio for about 15 years, and for about the past 10 years I have used exclusively pro audio gear in my installs, which are typically high efficiency drivers that require very little power to exceed loudness that most conventional car audio drivers are capable of. I use horns (HLCDs) and have had pretty good luck perfecting this art over the years by trying some unconventional things. My last install was in my 2010 Passat, which included customized fiberglass ported front door enclosures that housed 10" pro midbass, 7" pro midrange in custom kickpanels, and horns under the dash, then an 18" SI HT in the trunk in a custom infinite baffle I built. I love going to live shows and my goal is always to recreate this experience as much as possible in my vehicles. I sold the Passat last spring and bought my 2014 S4 in June. I have done a GIAC Stage II w/pulley, GIAC trans tune, intake, and RS grille thus far. I'm in love with the car and eager to be a part of the community here as I learn more. Also happy to offer any help or advice I can!

Mikael

Edit: I hate Photobucket. I need to find a new hosting site for pics that is forum-friendly. Any suggestions?

Here are a few pics from the Passat install, in case anyone is curious.

amp rack and subwoofer:



Pioneer DEX-P99RS headunit/processor:

[mikey7182]

Let’s try this:

https://imgur.com/gallery/MAwIi

[drmonkey]

Let’s try this:

https://imgur.com/gallery/MAwIi

Scrolled to the last image and saw "Forty Six & Two"...one of the best songs for testing ranges in car audio...happens to be one of the greatest bands too...

[mikey7182]

Scrolled to the last image and saw "Forty Six & Two"...one of the best songs for testing ranges in car audio...happens to be one of the greatest bands too...

You may have noticed the Tool sticker above the IB sub pic as well. :) My license plate is "MY3RDEY." I'm a bit of a nerd about it.

[drmonkey]

You may have noticed the Tool sticker above the IB sub pic as well. :) My license plate is "MY3RDEY." I'm a bit of a nerd about it.

Nice! I keep waiting for them to come back to Houston so I can see them again.

[mikey7182]

Also, does anyone know the outer diameter of the factory 3" in the dash? Maybe the mounting diameter? I'm seeing what I can fit up there.

[cspcrx]

I have a set I can measure but there were threads on this long ago. Without cutting the dash the Audison ADV3 was the only option found.

[mikey7182]

Awesome, thank you. I read through this entire thread a few times but haven’t been on the forum much other than this.

There are several options that appear to fit from google searches. I’m considering the Illusion Audio C3cx. Hoping it fits. If you wouldn’t mind measuring the depth as well that would be much appreciated!

[Drunktank]

I have the Focal Flax 3-way components (PS 165 F3) installed and the mids could not have been a better fit. They literally squeezed in perfectly, I didn't even need to screw them down. If you go on Focal's site and look them up, that may tell you about the dimensions you're looking for.

[doug97gxe]

I am enjoying the education and technical debate between Audi403 and drmonkey. Very interesting

Audi403, I wish I had a big ass sub like yours. Much better use of the trunk thank having my golf clubs in there. Based on my golf game, I am completely wasting the space in my trunk.


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are you being sarcastic when you say big ass sub? LOL

[0000_S5]

Partially; I’d really like to have big bass, but my damn golf addiction precludes me from giving up the trunk space. I’d get more enjoyment from the sub and it would be more economical.


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[Drunktank]

Why not just do a corner box and have both?

[0000_S5]

^^ Before I do that, I need to do the Pioneer deck sub swap..... I’ve been following this thread for a while and (sadly) haven’t pulled the trigger.


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[SoCal Quattro]

Partially; I’d really like to have big bass, but my damn golf addiction precludes me from giving up the trunk space. I’d get more enjoyment from the sub and it would be more economical.


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Same here with the golf addiction, I can barely squeeze my clubs in my S4, I haven't setup my sub yet but have a JL 12W7 in a small box and going add some kind quick connection to allow me to take it out whenever I want., the amp and LCi will be hidden.

[0000_S5]

The disconnect is a good idea....


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