The definitive stereo and subwoofer upgrade thread

[Strong Man]

fmzip well done Man ! Congrats.

"The tradeoff is the AP8 has less volume output in comparison to the stock speaker."

it's obvious ...time to upgrade apm :)))) BTW ...sub sounds just perfect with stock amp...waiting to get Voce 3 in dash :)

[fmzip]

fmzip well done Man ! Congrats.

it's obvious ...time to upgrade apm :)))) BTW ...sub sounds just perfect with stock amp...waiting to get Voce 3 in dash :)

Thanks bud!

Here's my summary for all that are following.

For a nice, easy, relatively inexpensive upgrade....Pioneer sub and Audison Voce dash speakers. I could have been very content with that, the results were extremely noticeable.

Since I disassembled every door and deadened things and added the AP8's, the system is poised for future upgrades if I so desire. To me, the time spent to deaden and insulate the car was well worth it. The AP8's are a much better sounding speaker as well.

If I had known of the APK165's before I bought the AV-x 6.5 coaxials, I would have bought them for the rear doors. I'd also like to try the AP-1 tweeters in the front sail panels.

http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=58

I can imagine that with more power, these speakers will really pound. They are so much more accurate than stock. Could use some suggestions as to how to install an amp etc. with this setup to better understand the options. With so many speakers, I assume the factory amp would still have to be utilized somehow with an after market amp? Anyone tackle such a setup here? The Audison Prima 8.9 looks to be a nice amp/processor

That is the plan and that is where it will stop.....

Maybe I should follow my own advice of two weeks ago and STOP??? lol

I know that a real Amp and processing will really shine!

[Strong Man]

fmzip , https://www.crutchfield.com/S-UuRCRX...HELIX-DSP.html

[fmzip]

fmzip , https://www.crutchfield.com/S-UuRCRX...HELIX-DSP.html

Thanks...do we have line level inputs to use? BTW, I reversed the polarity. I am unsure of the result at the moment since I have mismatched fronts still.



Spent the night modifying the speaker mount...

Had to run out to the store to find something thinner to mount the speaker rings, what I used was too think. This was perfect:

[the general]

If you can find a Mobridge da2 or da3, it will decode the MOST system and plug right in using the fibre cable and provide RCA outs. The da3 also has a built in dsp.


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[waxxonMTL]

Thanks bud!

Here's my summary for all that are following.

For a nice, easy, relatively inexpensive upgrade....Pioneer sub and Audison Voce dash speakers. I could have been very content with that, the results were extremely noticeable.

Since I already have the sub, I will try your suggestion and try those 3 inch driver :) thanks

[Strong Man]

Thanks...do we have line level inputs to use?

Basically your line level inputs are speaker outputs from stock amp.

[Strong Man]

BTW, I reversed the polarity. I am unsure of the result at the moment

Since yestarday I've started to run with reversed the polarity too...I already did it a few times when I just installed the sub , and in that time I didn't noticed any difference between both polarities .
This time I've noticed ...hmmmmm how I'm going to explain it ?! Let's say the sound from sub merged/sound-connected better with the front speaker which is good , BUT I felt like a little bit less power/impact from sub .

[fmzip]

Since yestarday I've started to run with reversed the polarity too...I already did it a few times when I just installed the sub , and in that time I didn't noticed any difference between both polarities .
This time I've noticed ...hmmmmm how I'm going to explain it ?! Let's say the sound from sub merged/sound-connected better with the front speaker which is good , BUT I felt like a little bit less power/impact from sub .

I tired swapping the polarity on the sub....way less bass.

Have to say, the AP8's have way more mid bass than the stock front door speakers.

The system really sounds great now with the 6 new Audison speakers in the mix

[Strong Man]

I tired swapping the polarity on the sub....way less bass.

So, we noticed the same ... happy to hear it. I was afraid that I've started to loose my sound experience, but no :)))

[Dobbler]

I tired swapping the polarity on the sub....way less bass.

Have to say, the AP8's have way more mid bass than the stock front door speakers.

The system really sounds great now with the 6 new Audison speakers in the mix

So skip upgrading the front door speakers and just do Audison coax in the back doors?

[Strong Man]

So skip upgrading the front door speakers and just do Audison coax in the back doors?

What ?!

The system really sounds great now with the 6 new Audison speakers in the mix

[Dobbler]

What ?!

I can read. I'm doing the 3.0 up front. But he said he lost mid bass with the 6.5 in the front doors. So my question stands :)

[Strong Man]

I can read.

Are you sure about it ?!:))))

I'm doing the 3.0 up front. But he said he lost mid bass with the 6.5 in the front doors. So my question stands :)

Quote Originally Posted by fmzip View Post


Have to say, the AP8's have way more mid bass than the stock front door speakers.

[Dobbler]

Are you sure about it ?!:))))

Yeah, when he did the 6.5's he lost midbass. He did a lotttttta fabrication for the front doors - and switched to the 8's. I'm looking for best bang for the buck including labor effort.

[Drunktank]

You guys should really just bite the bullet and do it right if you've gone this far. Now you're replacing speakers without a way to tune them. Get an X701-d or a BitOne and do the install right. The better it sounds, the more you're going to want to turn it up and you won't have the power available.

[fmzip]

You guys should really just bite the bullet and do it right if you've gone this far. Now you're replacing speakers without a way to tune them. Get an X701-d or a BitOne and do the install right. The better it sounds, the more you're going to want to turn it up and you won't have the power available.

Agreed for anyone who has no budget.....

But...not everyone fits that bill

Just ordered the AP1 tweeters for the front sail panels:




The system has plenty of bass now. The AP8's should be used instead of 6.5's in the front door. Too much mid bass is lost with 6.5's. It was apparent with the factory 8" installed and the Voce 6.5 in the other door. I removed the Voce 6.5 the very next day.

Agreed, it would be nice to tune it with a DSP/Amp but as with most music, one setting doesn't fit all. I'm likely going this route at some point in the distant future, looking at the Audison Prima 8.9, The X-701-D is for non MMI cars which wouldn't work for me.
Right now I am very please with the results from replacing just the speakers

[fmzip]

Yeah, when he did the 6.5's he lost midbass. He did a lotttttta fabrication for the front doors - and switched to the 8's. I'm looking for best bang for the buck including labor effort.

There isn't much difference in fabrication for 6.5's or 8's.....You'll have to fabricate a mount for either. Either way you have to sandwich two 3/4 MDF spacers together and then attach them to a 1/4" piece of wood or plastic. You need a jigsaw, and a cordless drill and drill bits, screws and some caulk

Get 2 sets of these for the fronts and a couple of cutting boards:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-8-MDF...EAAOSwRoZZicnB

These are for the rears:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pair-Wood...0AAOSwmblZ17pG

So skip upgrading the front door speakers and just do Audison coax in the back doors?

And no....

Do the Voce 3" first, the front AP8's next, the rear doors last...don't forget the sub ;)

I'd offer to make some rings but they may not be the prettiest

[Dobbler]

There isn't much difference in fabrication for 6.5's or 8's.....You'll have to fabricate a mount for either. Either way you have to sandwich two 3/4 MDF spacers together and then attach them to a 1/4" piece of wood or plastic. You need a jigsaw, and a cordless drill and drill bits, screws and some caulk

Get 2 sets of these for the fronts and a couple of cutting boards:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PCS-8-MDF...EAAOSwRoZZicnB

These are for the rears:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pair-Wood...0AAOSwmblZ17pG





And no....

Do the Voce 3" first, the front AP8's next, the rear doors last...don't forget the sub ;)

I'd offer to make some rings but they may not be the prettiest

Thanks! I already have a JL 10" open-air sub and JL 300w amp with remote level control, so I'm set on the low end.

What was the consensus on the center dash speaker? Voce 3", something else, or leave it be?

[fmzip]

Thanks! I already have a JL 10" open-air sub and JL 300w amp with remote level control, so I'm set on the low end.

What was the consensus on the center dash speaker? Voce 3", something else, or leave it be?

From the thread I read early on which led me done the Voce path, that person did not like the sound of the Voce in the center dash so they built a small enclosure for it. I am leaving it be.

Since you have the bass you want, you may like the 6.5's in the fronts then. However, if you like what you have, you will likely lose some of that bass.....

After adding the AP8's, I now have turned my bass knob down by two clicks already. It's at one click past twelve o'clock now if that helps you any. Much better accurate mid bass for sure

[BKE]

I added the Audison Voce 3. Being a data guy, I took a few before and after measurements to quantify the changes. All measurements are in 1/3 octave and no smoothing. I have a sub already which is clearly visible in the measurements.

First is the baseline, which has all sound settings at neutral.
[IMG][/IMG]

Second is the same speaker configuration adjusted by ear to match my desired performance.
[IMG][/IMG]

This is with the audison speakers installed.

First is the neutral setting.
[IMG][/IMG]

Second is the adjusted settings to my tastes.
[IMG][/IMG]

The overall sound has improved exponentially; unaltered, unveiled, etc. are accurate descriptions. The measurements show a 5db improvement @ 14kHz, an overall increase in output from 250 to 14k and negative impact at 160hz (a roll off difference between the stock and audison speakers).

Not visible in the static pictures is the audison’s smoothing improvement between 250-14k. The audison’s significantly reduced the peaks and valleys in the signal while the stock speakers had wide fluctuations.

I need to tune the sub and take a few near fields to determine the 160k drop and the complete lack of the top octave.

[fmzip]

I added the Audison Voce 3. Being a data guy, I took a few before and after measurements to quantity the changes. All measurements are in 1/3 octave and no smoothing. I have a sub already which is clearly visible in the measurements.

First is the baseline, which has all sound settings at neutral.
[IMG][/IMG]

Second is the same speaker configuration adjusted by ear to match my desired performance.
[IMG][/IMG]

This is with the audison speakers installed.

First is the neutral setting.
[IMG]
[/IMG]

Second is the adjusted settings to my tastes.
[IMG][/IMG]

The overall sound has improved exponentially; unaltered, unveiled, etc. are accurate descriptions. The measurements show a 5db improvement @ 14kHz, an overall increase in output from 250 to 14k and negative impact at 160hz (a roll off difference between the stock and audison speakers).

Not visible in the static pictures is the audison’s smoothing improvement between 250-14k. The audison’s significantly reduced the peaks and valleys in the signal while the stock speakers had wide fluctuations.

I need to tune the sub and take a few near fields to determine the 160k drop and the complete lack of the top octave.

Cool! I love when actual data supports my ears. The “empty wallet” placebo effect sometimes alters people’s “unbiased” reviews ;)


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[waxxonMTL]

very interesting.. i guess i will have to do the 3' and 8' speaker.

[Strong Man]

BKE thank you for sharing with us your results ...it's really impressive !

[BKE]

I took a near field measurement of the stock 8’s and was surprised by how smooth they are, (I didn’t take a snapshot as I was just goofing around). My two cents is to jump into the 3’s then the 8’s if the 3’s don’t do it for you.

[BKE]

BKE thank you for sharing with us your results ...it's really impressive !

My pleasure.

[fmzip]

I took a near field measurement of the stock 8’s and was surprised by how smooth they are, (I didn’t take a snapshot as I was just goofing around). My two cents is to jump into the 3’s then the 8’s if the 3’s don’t do it for you.

I agree, just by ear the stock 8's are pretty darn good for what they are. You'd be surprised as the significant difference when you are able to A/B each one in the vehicle. The accuracy of the AP8's is the big difference.

I'd be curious to hear just the AP8's and the Voce 3" installed without upgrading the sub...The AP8's added a significant amount of bass all on their own

[waxxonMTL]

I agree, just by ear the stock 8's are pretty darn good for what they are. You'd be surprised as the significant difference when you are able to A/B each one in the vehicle. The accuracy of the AP8's is the big difference.

I'd be curious to hear just the AP8's and the Voce 3" installed without upgrading the sub...The AP8's added a significant amount of bass all on their own

Problem with the stock B&O 8'' is that, on certain rap song, I heard the limit of the speaker at level 24ish and need to lower it to 21-22 to allow to sound good. So I can reach their limit and then they start to sound ''scratchy''

[Cooper993]

One Audison AP8 installed. Huge difference in mid bass, much tighter and much more accurate than the stock B&O. The tradeoff is the AP8 has less volume output in comparison to the stock speaker. This has been consistent with each speaker swap. It's obvious when you look at the quality of the stock speakers, you could drive them easily, there is nothing to them.

Audison offers a one inch tweeter in this series as well, an AP1. Think I am going to order a pair to see how they sound in the front sail panels.


http://www.audison.eu/index.php?page=product&id=55

Still need to tweak the mount I fabricated to get the door panel back on. For reference, I used two 8" rings which are 3/4" thick and sandwiched them together. I mounted those to a plastic ring I made from a cutting board which is about 1/2" thick. Ideally, if I had a slightly thinner piece of plastic, it would have made my life a little easier. This speaker is right near the door panel without much room to work with.

Do you have a picture with the stock speaker mounted?

Not trying to be critical, but the picture above looks rather "ghetto". Looking to see if there is a better option e.g. reuse the stock speaker surround or maybe 3D fabrication

[fmzip]

Do you have a picture with the stock speaker mounted?

Not trying to be critical, but the picture above looks rather "ghetto". Looking to see if there is a better option e.g. reuse the stock speaker surround or maybe 3D fabrication

LOL, agreed ghetto looking but rock solid. That was all that I was after. I am super anal but something like this will never be seen.

Under no means would you want to reuse the stock housing in any way. It's so flimsy, there is zero structural integrity. I have a stock A4 non-B&O front and rear door speaker if you like to use them for mock up / 3D rendering. They are the same size as the B&O's I bought them to begin looking at ideas, like you, before tearing the car apart. I paid $25 each for them. If you are going to do a 3D rendering and will offer it to the forum, I'll ship you both of them for $25

Here are both, I have full sized pics shown:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11261628445...84.m1555.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11265157699...84.m1555.l2649

Here's the stock setup:

[Cooper993]

Ok, so now that I see the stock picture, that's just one street over from "ghetto".

[fmzip]

Ok, so now that I see the stock picture, that's just one street over from "ghetto".

Lol...

Those Grilles with the Audi emblems are the only part of the deign worth keeping :)


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[S4Gibbs]

I have a non-b&o sound system in my S4 unfortunately. Fortunately, this also means I do have a separate volume control exclusively for my subwoofer accessible through the MMI which should come in handy later ;)

Anybody have any experience on where to start upgrading this stock system?

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[fmzip]

I have a non-b&o sound system in my S4 unfortunately. Fortunately, this also means I do have a separate volume control exclusively for my subwoofer accessible through the MMI which should come in handy later ;)

Anybody have any experience on where to start upgrading this stock system?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I wouldn't see any reason not to follow the same order as the speaker sizes are the same. I fabricated my speaker mounts from stock A4 speakers before I took the doors apart.

[fmzip]

Do you have a picture with the stock speaker mounted?

Not trying to be critical, but the picture above looks rather "ghetto". Looking to see if there is a better option e.g. reuse the stock speaker surround or maybe 3D fabrication

BTW, If you want to make pretty mounts, this is the way to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IOiU9Xt3bE

[Drunktank]

Originally Posted by S4Gibbs View Post

I have a non-b&o sound system in my S4 unfortunately. Fortunately, this also means I do have a separate volume control exclusively for my subwoofer accessible through the MMI which should come in handy later ;)

Anybody have any experience on where to start upgrading this stock system?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
I wouldn't see any reason not to follow the same order as the speaker sizes are the same. I fabricated my speaker mounts from stock A4 speakers before I took the doors apart.

Isn't the non-B&O only a 2-way system?

[fmzip]

Isn't the non-B&O only a 2-way system?

I put coax 6.5's in the read doors so that solves the back's. You could do the same for the fronts or run separates in the fronts and make holes in your sail panels to mount tweeters. That would likely be the better route.

[S4Gibbs]

Isn't the non-B&O only a 2-way system?

It is indeed only a two way, so no front tweeters by side mirrors, only dash "tweeters."

Anybody know if the dash speakers are getting full signal? Wouldn't want to put 3" Voces in my dash if their only getting highpass tweeter-signal from the amp...





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[Cooper993]

BTW, If you want to make pretty mounts, this is the way to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IOiU9Xt3bE

Thanks for the link. The issue isn't how to make them, it was more the way the speaker housing sticks way out off the door.

Until I saw that the stock speaker was basically the same, did I realize it wasn't the mounts you made; but the way the mount is designed from the factory.

As an FYI, for the Sub-ring I made, I actually used left-over Trex trim I had laying around then covered it in gray felt.

[Drunktank]

It is indeed only a two way, so no front tweeters by side mirrors, only dash "tweeters."

Anybody know if the dash speakers are getting full signal? Wouldn't want to put 3" Voces in my dash if their only getting highpass tweeter-signal from the amp...

I can only speak about the B&O system, but all it's outs were full signal. The tweeter had a capacitor soldered on to protect it. At the same time, it could be different though because the B&O tweeter shares the woofer speaker wire... I probably didn't help at all there..

Anyway, you could always remove the dash tweeters to see if there's a cap attached. That should give you a good idea.