How's an RS4 as a track car?

[SharkNardo]

Hey all, I've been an A6 (2 C5s and 1 C7) and Porsche (993) guy for years. I'm interested in putting a track car together to take advantage of 2 great road courses near me (VIR and Dominion).

There's a lot of choices for a track car, but I've always been fond of the B7 RS4. I have some familiarity with the 4.2 motor having had a variant of it in my C5 4.2 A6. How are they as track cars? With the V8 weight on the front end, how do they handle? How does the motor hold up? Any weak points? I know the B7 platform has a lot of aftermarket support, is there good aftermarket support for the RS4?

Just trying to get an idea if the RS4 is a good choice for a track car...any insight would be helpful...thanks!

[doughboy17]

Although I imagine the RS4s are fun cars, I anticipate you could make better choices for a strictly track car. The V6 alone makes the front end of my car heavy and the front tires constantly SCRUBBING. I can only imagine what the extra 2 cylinders would do. Although I would not dare compare it to the 911, I anticipate it is the opposite of the rear slide happy 911.

[USAFS4]

I took mine to Summit Point last fall and was amazed at how nimble the car was through the tighter corners. Engine and stock brakes with upgraded pads did well also. At the limit it will push. Also, the tires held up really well. My B8 S4 would scrub the hell out of the fronts but the RS4 had very neutral wear. If you want a DD that is fun at DEs it's not a bad choice. But if you take your track driving seriously than it will limit you at some point, and the needed upgrades to go faster are more expensive than picking another platform.

[rs4max]

I track my RS4 regularly with the AudiClub. It's an absolute blast and it's an extremely capable car that will take me a very long time to fully explore before my driving skills catch up! Obviously, it's a front-heavy car (and a heavy car in general) and it will understeer badly if you overdrive it. It's a car that will rewards a smooth and precise driving. If you try to muscle it around, it'll fight back and destroy your front tires.

As mentioned above, upgraded brake pads are a must, and if it's time to change your rotors, upgrade those too (StopTech makes good two-piece rotors, which means you can just replace the rotor rings when they're worn out at only about half the cost). I also recommend a stiffer rear sway bar (034Motorsport makes a good one) to help the rear rotate and reduce understeer, as well as adjustable control arms (again, 034) so you can dial in a bit of camber at the front.

Mechanically, the engine is very strong, and you really don't have to worry about much there. No weak points other than the normal, often mentioned maintenance items of the RS4: carbon cleaning, intake runner flaps, and regular oil changes.

After that, tires are what make the biggest difference, but that's a department that is up to personal preference. Michelin PSS work great and will have reasonably good lifespan, even with track use, but you have to watch out for pressures and compound temperature or they'll destroy themselves rather quickly. Some folks also run Bridgestone RE11 or Toyo R888 or T1S. I now have a different set of wheels for the track (lighter, 18"), mostly so I can run slicks.

With all that said, I don't know that I would buy an RS4 specifically to make it a track car, unless you're loaded. It's an expensive car to maintain, and taking it to the track certainly doesn't help the wallet. It does force you to keep the car in tip-top shape though. If you're looking for a track toy, I feel like there are much better options. But the RS4 is indeed a very special car, that's a pleasure to drive both on and off the track, and I certainly would be the last person to not recommend owning one :)

[wednesday]

Rs4 is beast of a ride and heck of a lot of fun even with it's quirks.

To each their own; imo it is a ridiculously expensive track car to maintain considering that if you spend the same amount on a different car, you would end up with better results (track times) and so on.. While rs4 does have support from quite a few vendors, it does not come close to the support some other cars have and the knowledge that comes with having a larger audience - something you learn the hard way with rs.

[MattboyR32]

All that rs4max said!

Yes we can buy newer, more adept, more agile and capable cars. But there are still some teeth in the old dog!

https://youtu.be/M4LHOskUPes


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[SharkNardo]

Great info, thanks all...think I will consider another platform based on the comments...RS4's still rock though

[rs4max]

https://youtu.be/M4LHOskUPes

Nice! I wasn't at AudiFest last year (I find that event a bit expensive to attend). What other Audi events have you done? Not that many RS4s out there! I was at Thunderhill for the Winter Driving Event earlier this year, in the rain, and that same black M4 and I were having a lot of fun :)

[Fourplay]

They're difficult to trail brake into corners because of the propensity to understeer. They have great mid corner handling and even better corner exits because of the AWD, but turn-in is not particularly great because of all the weight over the front of the car.

Basically, you have to get all of your braking out of the way in a straight line rather than try to use trail braking to rotate the car into the corner. Big difference from other quick-ish cars I've driven.

Consumables will be expensive because it's a heavy car. Tires aren't terrible but brakes are quite expensive and the car uses them up quickly. The stock calipers are quite good (unlike, say BMW M cars), no fade with the correct pads and fluid. The car itself should be very reliable on track, it will just cost a lot to run HPDE with.

It's not a bad car and the limits are quite high, it's just heavy, which makes it a less than ideal track car.

[pule333]

I track mine. It's brilliant with some mods. But. Very heavy! Consumables are expensive! Not ideal track car but very capable indeed! A lot of fun! And you can't beat a V8 :)
https://youtu.be/xoyu64R0l94

[koolade9]

Rs4 is beast of a ride and heck of a lot of fun even with it's quirks.

To each their own; imo it is a ridiculously expensive track car to maintain considering that if you spend the same amount on a different car, you would end up with better results (track times) and so on.. While rs4 does have support from quite a few vendors, it does not come close to the support some other cars have and the knowledge that comes with having a larger audience - something you learn the hard way with rs.

Well said.

[vdubjetta02]

Having driven an RS4 and E90 M3 back to back.... I would steer towards an M3 all day long. The motor isn't as far up as the RS4 and I believe it the center of gravity is even lower in regards to the motor. I love the RS4 as a family sedan, but personally feel it is a little too nose heavy (but everything feels nose heavy after owning a porsche )

My vote would be an E92 M3 or oposite spectrum... C6 Z06's are insanely capable track cars as well. My good buddy has one

[MattboyR32]

I track mine. It's brilliant with some mods. But. Very heavy! Consumables are expensive! Not ideal track car but very capable indeed! A lot of fun! And you can't beat a V8 :)
https://youtu.be/xoyu64R0l94

Cool vid. How did you mount your camera?


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[ATEAV8]

Mario took his 1000hp rs4 to a track day and got kicked off the track for going to slow. No longer welcome back. Probably not the best example to use but I'd say they are pretty decent and fun cars to track as long as you're not a ****.

#Kennyleaks

[koolade9]

https://youtu.be/xoyu64R0l94

Watch the throttle level <5k rpm. This video shows the limiter quite well.

[pule333]

One more to the kitty :) https://youtu.be/QxYrcLP1kQs

[ven0m]

One more to the kitty :) https://youtu.be/QxYrcLP1kQs

Question, what do you use for the telemetry input on the video?

Ps: Great noises and driving!

[pule333]

Question, what do you use for the telemetry input on the video?

Ps: Great noises and driving!

Harrys lap timer with KIWI3 obd dongle
Thanks :)

[MattboyR32]

Cool vid. How did you mount your camera?


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Need a pic of ur camera mount setup pls!


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[pule333]

Need a pic of ur camera mount setup pls!


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Just like that

[MattboyR32]

Awesome. Pretty huge clamps. The picture is rock steady though. Nice seat setup! Waiting for the next oreca store sale to pick up some omp seats. Nicely done.


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[ven0m]

Just like that

Awesome camera mount! I can't find it under any searchword, how's it called even?
I found "cargo mounts" to be similar but not with those fancy clamps at the end.

[MattboyR32]

Just like that

What Corbeau seats are those?


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[wednesday]

Damn. Love it

[pule333]

Awesome camera mount! I can't find it under any searchword, how's it called even?
I found "cargo mounts" to be similar but not with those fancy clamps at the end.

Lol :)
I am a photographer so have them laying around
This is what the clamps are https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...h_ratchet.html
And this is the extension pole to go in between https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ble_light.html
I have a slightly difrent version of the pole but they do same thing.
Also need something like this https://shop.gopro.com/mounts/handle...AGTSM-001.html
Or
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/gopro-pole-mount

[pule333]

What Corbeau seats are those?


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http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/corbea.../prod_474.html

[koolade9]

Search: racing harness spinal compression

[MattboyR32]

So long as my sholders are lower than the holes the belts pass through are, correct?

[koolade9]

So long as my sholders are lower than the holes the belts pass through are, correct?

Negative; the key function is where your shoulders sit in relation to where the harnesses mount. A harness bar above the shoulders behind the seat is proper. Some folks get away with mounting to the seatbelt anchors on the rear deck, but that's just a loophole, and it's not exactly the safest choice. OE seats are designed to crumple and provide some level of vertical impact support. Racing seats are designed to work in tandem with the roll cage. When the occupant is strapped in, they become a part of the structure along with the seat. If the seats are left to be structural members all alone, they will fail at the wrong time.

[ven0m]

MattboyR32, if you're interested in a read. Me and koolade9 had a long discussion a while back in this forum thread: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ounting-points

We also continued the discussion privately and I'm thankful for the arguments he brought to the table. We both agree that these "plug-in" harnesses are no substitution for a roll-cage/harness-assembly/hans. And by using it, you put your own neck at stake as it never can be a 100% safety solution.

I think the loophole that koolade mentions is that what I pointed out in our discussion (pictures in that thread), that if you as the driver are short-enough (I'm 5'8"), your shoulders are under the hole in the seat where the harness passes through, but also the angle at which the harnesses continue behind the seat is important. A propper harness bar will cause the harness to travel upwards leaving your shoulders, reducing the risk of spinal compression. Connecting them to the rear seat-belt connection points still puts them at an "acceptable" angle.

This word "acceptable" you have to judge yourself.

PS: We were discussing the Scroth harnesses, who are running a patented ASM technology to prevent the driver from submerging.

[MattboyR32]

Look, I totally get the safety aspects of it.

There was an article on the winding road website about the race to the bottom and the budget conscious decisions we make and therefore the risks that we take. Believe you me, I would love to go get a proper race car as a "fun" car like a few people in the Audi Club here in California have. Alas I don't play in that sort of money. So trying to balance safety with cost is tough because ultimately what is your life worth!

There was an instructor a number of years back, second lap at big willow and he rolled it. he had a few bruises and contusions but otherwise fine. Car was a write-off. Very lucky fellow. Do I take some comfort that he was in an RS4 and he survived. Sure. Does it mean I am invincible no.

I think as we work our way up from beginner groups and with no mods on the car to more and more advanced such that you want to make certain adjustments to go faster, means also you have to start weighing the safety aspect much more.

Would also be nice if someone made a removable roll cage for our cars. Before people jump on and flame me about removable or fixed, my argument is that I would still like to take more than 2 people in the car on the road if I wanted to... maybe one day I'll take a trip to autopower industries and see if they can measure something up...

cheers all.

[koolade9]

I'm not saying you guys need to run a cage. But you'll be hard pressed to find a racing organization that will let you on track with belts mounted like that. Find yourself a good fabricator and have a harness bar made. Here's one in a B6 I pulled off the interwebs:



Otherwise, I'd run OE belts...