Allroad Subframe spacer removal/exhaust fitment

[chris86vw]

Anyone running an Allroad with the subframe spacers removed and run into any issues with exhaust fitment?

My car is in a million pieces doing my trans swap and 100 other things, found that previous owner had something fall into driver side inlet tube and took out the turbo, that explains the whistle the 3 times I drove it. Not the end of the world my parts car actually had Rotomaster K04 clones (can't find info on them but they seem to have been holding up for a while). Cool other than I Wanted to do a tuning progression of 1-2-3, 3 being Gt28s but ok skipping a few steps.

The issue is parts car had hacked up downpipes going to a hack (that is being nice) exhaust and I can't use my tip BEL downpipes with he K04s. So I am building new downpipes this weekend if my cats show up today. I started to jig up last night for the hacked up downpipes then I remembered they don't line up to a stock cat back location. So I Was going to swap the stock turbos back on and jig up to the outlet on the BEL downpipes which should meet up with my stock cat back but then remembered that the engine will now be higher in the car than it was before with the subframe spacers removed.

So has anyone removed the allroad subframe spacers and run into a stock catback without major exhaust alignment issues? This needs to be my tame daily driver, you can't hold a conversation in the Jeep or A3, so I don't want to do a catback build until I see how loud it is with just the larger downpipes. The aftermarket downpipes seem to fit A6 and allroad so maybe I"m just over thinking this.

Anyone know if the normal A6 and the Allroad just maybe had different exhaust hanger heights... hacked exhaust was missing half only the rear most ones were stock which are the ones from the allroad which would need to remain for proper tip alignment in the valence.

[ChicagosPhantom]

I tried to follow, but I'm lost now...

Anyways,

If you're planning to run KO4s you'll have to use APB flanges as BEL ones won't work.
Tip transmission dp can be fitted over manual transmissions.
All manual cars have same flanges (old style) on downpipes as any APB cars and those are direct bolt on to KO4.
Subframe spacer removal was done before on allroad, but for that to compensate you need shorter uprights so you don't run into front end suspension issues.
I have both allroad and A6, both 01E, both have S4 aftermarket downpipes.
On A6 hangers are at the same point as on S4, however in allroad they're off a good 1.5" so I had to use spacer (small metal plate) to bolt them on to a hanger. Removing subframe spacer would probably get them leveled with factory hanger position.
No issues lining downpipes in allroad with rest of my exhaust, but I still have subframe spacers in and I don't think removing them would cause misalignment with rest of your catback.

[chris86vw]

I tried to follow, but I'm lost now...

Anyways,

If you're planning to run KO4s you'll have to use APB flanges as BEL ones won't work.
Tip transmission dp can be fitted over manual transmissions.
All manual cars have same flanges (old style) on downpipes as any APB cars and those are direct bolt on to KO4.

All laid out above as part of what is being changed and why... and has nothing to do with the question.

Subframe spacer removal was done before on allroad, but for that to compensate you need shorter uprights so you don't run into front end suspension issues.

I have 100% complete a6 I'm parting out and have those parts from it, not a factor in this question which is why it was left out. But just so no one else is confused I have all those parts, it had nothing to do with the exhaust, this isn't a thread that has anything to do with the suspension.

No issues lining downpipes in allroad with rest of my exhaust, but I still have subframe spacers in and I don't think removing them would cause misalignment with rest of your catback.

So nothing to do with the question.


I appreciate the attempt to help but you haven't seem to have done this nor understand that moving the engine up 1" by removing the spacers raises the downpipe outlet one inch which changes how it would made up to the cat back, because it does not change height. It would essentially now be like this -- _ . In some cases that is too much in others it is fine. Which is why I'm asking if anyone with experience actually removing the spacers dealt with exhaust alignment issues. My catback isn't on so I can't just raise the inlet an inch simulating the change to see how the tips and other parts move which is why I Was asking. Maybe I'll just throw it on.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Well, your post was confusing and lacking in information so I laid out some.... what I was saying is removing the subframe spacers won't have HUGE efect on aligning exhaust.

Gotcha... IDK nothing and seems like you have all the answers already so you should be ready to go. You didn't even have to open a thread about this. 🙄

[4rings2turbos]

Maybe it's just coming across wrong, but that sounded pretty snotty toward someone that put in effort to help you. Marko is a really good guy and you should apologize.


It has been previously discussed and comes up in the search that removing the spacer causes four issues- repeated for those that might not be in your exact situation that will also be reading- driveshaft misalignment, front snub mount misalignment, lower control arm geometry issues and: exhaust clearance issues.

[kid]

This appears to be the question...

Anyone running an Allroad with the subframe spacers removed and run into any issues with exhaust fitment?

Anyone know if the normal A6 and the Allroad just maybe had different exhaust hanger heights... hacked exhaust was missing half only the rear most ones were stock which are the ones from the allroad which would need to remain for proper tip alignment in the valence.

This appears to be an answer...

On A6 hangers are at the same point as on S4, however in allroad they're off a good 1.5" so I had to use spacer (small metal plate) to bolt them on to a hanger. Removing subframe spacer would probably get them leveled with factory hanger position.
No issues lining downpipes in allroad with rest of my exhaust, but I still have subframe spacers in and I don't think removing them would cause misalignment with rest of your catback.

If there is another issue, please let us know. I plan on doing a K04/6 speed swap on my K03/Tip, and would be interested in any hiccups I might be missing.

[chris86vw]

Maybe it's just coming across wrong, but that sounded pretty snotty toward someone that put in effort to help you.

Nope you read it correctly, I replied completely snotty to a snotty reply that had zero effort put in. IF any effort would have been put in then all the clearly listed items that were known would have been acknowledged .

The only thing he actually posted as far as an answer were things I clearly stated were know, like changing the downpipes, and about the suspension which was not even part of the question.

It has been previously discussed and comes up in the search that removing the spacer causes four issues- repeated for those that might not be in your exact situation that will also be reading- driveshaft misalignment, front snub mount misalignment, lower control arm geometry issues and: exhaust clearance issues.

So you clarified that what he said is not an issue is in fact an issue. The one key thing I was asking about now two people are claiming completely opposite things.

I've searched, have been for weeks actually while I decide if I wanted to do this and have yet to find anything on the exhaust alignment which is why I asked.



Since you do bring up that people might be searching for this and others reading might want to know it makes it even more critical to not randomly throw out speculation based on things one has never done. Good guy or not that actually only HURTS the usefulness of a forum. He even later repeated again that it won't make an issue which shows he doesn't even comprehend what is being asked, that isn't helpful.

[chris86vw]

This appears to be an answer...

You highlighted two separate questions, and one answer.

Will there be fitment issues is a separate question from the hanger height. He did answer that they were a different height (although with a number that doesn't make sense if the difference is only for the spacers), that is a useful starting point but there are other considerations. like are they all different height. Is the exhaust modified in other ways too (didn't ask). Those are details which can really only be answered by someone who has done what was asked in the first question, he has not.

For example if the tips of a normal A6 and those of an allroad both fit with similar clearance to the valence but there is a 1" difference in hanger height then putting in the A6 hangers onto the allroad might cause the tips to now rest on the valence. So the solution for someone running with no spacers trying to make up that 1" of misalignment may not be simply throw on A6 hangers. It may mean that keeping the stock rear ones while using the middle A6 ones means that you take some stress off of them while still keeping tip clearance. Also moving the side of the exhaust that connects to the downpipes up an inch may completely take all load off the middle hanger and putting the entire weight of the cat back on just the rear hangers. Only actually seeing or doing it can answer that, not having issues because one has not ever done what is being asked is not an answer.



1/4" changes or less can cause major fitment issues in many applications, couple degrees of rotation can cause major fitment issues in others, think slip fit exhausts that bend on multiple planes tightened before all pipes are aligned. Despite good intentions this is NOT a subject for just guessing, even thinking you can guess on this shows a lack of understanding of the question and exhaust fitment. It doesn't mean one knows nothing, nor that another party has all the answers. It just means guessing is worthless, it helps no one now or when searching.

[4rings2turbos]

So has anyone removed the allroad subframe spacers and run into a stock catback without major exhaust alignment issues?

Yes it has been done and yes issues were had.

Anyone know if the normal A6 and the Allroad just maybe had different exhaust hanger heights[?]

Yes the hanger heights are different.

[chris86vw]

Yes it has been done and yes issues were had.

Ok so ignoring the now conflicting answers and since you previously said it has been discussed (but not done it yourself??) What are the issues and what have people done to address it or where is it being discussed?

[4rings2turbos]

Marko said he was making a guess. Do a search here or on google to find specifics. I don't remember either of the specific owner's handles.

[chris86vw]

[QUOTE=4rings2turbos;12263383]Marko said he was making a guess.[quote]

I know, this isn't a topic for guessing, most aren't. Especially when doesn't seem to understand what is even changing. With the only two answers in the thread being completely opposite only further emphasizes how guessing helps no one.

Do a search here or on google to find specifics. I don't remember either of the specific owner's handles.

As I noted above I have. been searching the topic for weeks as I decided if I Wanted to do this or not while it is all apart or wait for some other stuff down the road. Not only are most threads that mention the spacers just people shocked to learn that there are even spacers in their car but not one thread I've seen has mentioned exhaust period. Since you said there were threads that discussed it I was wondering if maybe you knew of one or even a user in particular, you don't, that's fine.

[Audibot]

Nope you read it correctly, I replied completely snotty to a snotty reply that had zero effort put in. IF any effort would have been put in then all the clearly listed items that were known would have been acknowledged .

The only thing he actually posted as far as an answer were things I clearly stated were know, like changing the downpipes, and about the suspension which was not even part of the question.

How was his answer snotty?! He couldn't completely follow your post, and honestly, neither could I. Perhaps you should lay out your post in an orderly fashion, like "Background: blah blah blah" Questions: 1. question 1; 2. question 2; 3. question 3"


Someone doing something and discussions about that topic may not be contradicting either, considering a lot of discussion happens before someone goes about doing it the first time. But with your attitude, I would be surprised if you get any more help from here

[chris86vw]

He couldn't completely follow your post, and honestly, neither could I. Perhaps you should lay out your post in an orderly fashion, like "Background: blah blah blah" Questions: 1. question 1; 2. question 2; 3. question 3"

Questions:

1. What part is hard to follow?

2a. Do you like him think information is missing to help answer the question? Downpipe flange fitment is not relevant or needed information to answer the question, nor is anything related to suspension. He provided no information allegedly missing from the initial post that is in anyway relevant.

2b. What information do you need to help answer the question?

3. Do you honestly think wild ass guesses based on no experience are actually helpful to anyone today or even in the future searching and finding this thread to get this answer?



And this allegedly has been discussed over and over again yet not a single person has an answer or location of said well known information, so not a new topic apparently nothing to discuss.

[4rings2turbos]

I do know where to find such information, you don't seem to be someone that needs any hand-holding though. You can paypal me $5 for a link if you want.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Wow, what a dweeb!

Hey, Mr. Engineer go do some work and mesurments and let us know how to fit things properly.
You're better of doing that then wasting time and space on forum arguing with everyone. Seems like you have a lot of it, better waste it productively.

✌

[chris86vw]

Wow, what a dweeb!

Hey, Mr. Engineer go do some work and mesurments and let us know how to fit things properly.
You're better of doing that then wasting time and space on forum arguing with everyone. Seems like you have a lot of it, better waste it productively.

✌

Had you actually read the initial post instead of pretending it was missing information that was clearly there you would know that I do not have the parts to measure because a previous owner had them hacked up and modified. Lovely crush bent mild steel from the downpipe/trans mount to the 18" long tips. I have no stock A6 parts to compare to, that was part of why I made this post, I needed the information. The second reason being that despite claims exhaust fitment on cars without spacers is information that can be found all over, it is not. So not easily found, it is apparently now something one can profit from supplying. So by having a thread specifically about this I was hoping that anyone else in the future looking would easily be able to find it, which is also why the thread was titled in a way that would contain relevant key words.

I'm making parts from scratch (As noted in the first post) so my measurements will be worthless to anyone here and would only fit my car. Posting them would make no sense at all and only further confuse people in the same way that posting things one has not done as the answer confuses and does not help anyone.

While I'm not an engineer, dropped out of engineering school actually to work in this industry, I've been involved in the VW audi community online for close to 25 years and working in it almost 20. I rarely start posts myself because I have the information or can find it. If I do post a new question it really does mean it is quite often a topic with little information to be easily found and it seemed like a conversation would benefit the community. Posting wrong information or made up information means that no one is helped, it only further buries the correct information making it harder for people to do things going forward. I'm the first person to say I'm an ass, this isn't news to me. But just because you can't admit you are one doesn't mean that your post was just you shooting roses and peace signs out of your nipples, it helped no one today and likely with just further confuse people going forward. I called you out on it, suck it up.

[ChicagosPhantom]

Had you actually read the initial post instead of pretending it was missing information that was clearly there you would know that I do not have the parts to measure because a previous owner had them hacked up and modified. Lovely crush bent mild steel from the downpipe/trans mount to the 18" long tips. I have no stock A6 parts to compare to, that was part of why I made this post, I needed the information. The second reason being that despite claims exhaust fitment on cars without spacers is information that can be found all over, it is not. So not easily found, it is apparently now something one can profit from supplying. So by having a thread specifically about this I was hoping that anyone else in the future looking would easily be able to find it, which is also why the thread was titled in a way that would contain relevant key words.

I'm making parts from scratch (As noted in the first post) so my measurements will be worthless to anyone here and would only fit my car. Posting them would make no sense at all and only further confuse people in the same way that posting things one has not done as the answer confuses and does not help anyone.

While I'm not an engineer, dropped out of engineering school actually to work in this industry, I've been involved in the VW audi community online for close to 25 years and working in it almost 20. I rarely start posts myself because I have the information or can find it. If I do post a new question it really does mean it is quite often a topic with little information to be easily found and it seemed like a conversation would benefit the community. Posting wrong information or made up information means that no one is helped, it only further buries the correct information making it harder for people to do things going forward. I'm the first person to say I'm an ass, this isn't news to me. But just because you can't admit you are one doesn't mean that your post was just you shooting roses and peace signs out of your nipples, it helped no one today and likely with just further confuse people going forward. I called you out on it, suck it up.

lol dude you need to chill.
I'm not in war with you and because I couldn't care less I don't have to suck it up. I do not get offended, neither I get hurt that easy from someone over interwebs.

To me your post was confusing as to others. I did read it few times and still wasn't totally clear so I did add some info which is true and not made up, so it won't confuse anyone else, except ego pumped person as you.
You were putting KO4s then you're going back to stock turbos and BEL dp.....
Why would all of that even matter if you're building everything from scratch...Whatever.

Other thing that you can't know or maybe didn't consider is that English is my second language and I'm trying to explain stuff in different way then you or someone else would.

I told you I had both cars, A6 and allroad, up in air and both of those components you were inquiring in my hands and I could compare where and how things sit. Also I did told you that I'm running S4 DP on my allroad with subframe spacers in and that dp hangers are off and don't align, removing subframe spacer will put downpipes in line with hangers and rest of the exhaust will align, but I guess you missed that information.
I still didn't get which dp you plan to run on yours.

Being an ass is one thing, but being an smart-ass is something different, it's cry out for attention and it's usually pathetic.
I respect your years in industry, but you were acting like a little bitch.

I'm not an ass, but I'm being an ass sometimes, only when it's needed, I'm not overdoing it like you did. Didn't ask others to jump in, but they did, because they saw something wrong and wanted to share their opinion on it...and you're here just to show us all useless and that we don't know anything instead of share information and get things figured out.
That's a one way to enter community and get new friends, good job keep it going!

[Xplycko]

Chris, he wasn't being smart he was trying to help. Just shake hands bro and reformulate your question. If you didn't like his first answer you should have clarified your exact need.

[kid]

You highlighted two separate questions, and one answer.

Will there be fitment issues is a separate question from the hanger height.

Two questions, that return the same result.

If your hanger heights are different, you will have alignment issues.

If you have alignment issues, it's due to the previously stated difference in hanger height.

This isn't rocket science...