Giac Stage 2 and E85

[4Rings3Liters]

I know I read somewhere what GIAC suggests using when running E85 with their race map but after looking through E85 thread after thread can't seem to find it. I recently put 4 gallons of E85 in my car and topped the rest off with 93. Has anyone else ran their race map with this setup and will I be ok? I don't want to throw a code because I don't have my ross tech cable yet so I won't be able to clear it. I'm going to the drag strip on friday. Also do GIACs different maps need driving time to adapt or once you change it on the fob its immediately ready?

[Connie@GIAC]

We recommend doing an e30 blend (about 4.5 gallons) with our race mode. It should not throw codes. For future consideration, you can run up to 6.5 gallons of E85 for additional performance. You should allow for at least 20 miles for the map to adapt, but otherwise it doesn't take much time.

[4Rings3Liters]

We recommend doing an e30 blend (about 4.5 gallons) with our race mode. It should not throw codes. For future consideration, you can run up to 6.5 gallons of E85 for additional performance.

Excellent customer service, thank you! So has anyone ran the race map with just 4 gallons of E85? I might have to go back to the gas station.

[whiped]

Excellent customer service, thank you! So has anyone ran the race map with just 4 gallons of E85? I might have to go back to the gas station.

Be careful and pick up an ECA if you run it regularly.

Over E40 and you can start getting into some trouble.

Also, +1 Connie, excellent fast response!

[4Rings3Liters]

Be careful and pick up an ECA if you run it regularly.

Over E40 and you can start getting into some trouble.

Also, +1 Connie, excellent fast response!

Sorry for my ignorance, what's an ECA? I don't run E85 regularly, actually this was my first time.

[Connie@GIAC]

Not sure who here has ran 4, but you should be fine with that. Like he said, be careful of going over E40!

[whiped]

Ethanol Content Analyzer I did a write up on mine here: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ntent-Analyzer

There are multiple other options as well.

E40 was the tipping point for Stage II. I usually kept it around E35.
E35 seems to bee the tipping point for my DP setup. I stay around E30.

Be careful blending, running lean because the fuel pump cannot keep up is very dangerous for your engine.

[4Rings3Liters]

Not sure who here has ran 4, but you should be fine with that. Like he said, be careful of going over E40!

How do I calculate this and what issues could occur?

[hyetiko]

I've been running giac race map daily for the last month with 4 gallons of e85 no problems, but I will be installing a ECA soon to see my exact ethanol amount.


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[whiped]

Ethanol content is hard to calculate unless you know the ethanol content of the gas in your car and of the E85 you're adding. You call ballpark pretty well but it is not worth it to me if you are frequently blending.

There are lots of bad things that can happen from running lean. Pison failure is a big one.

[4Rings3Liters]

Bueller... anyone else?

[MVR 155]

Depending on the station the ethanol content of the fuel can vary greatly..... Using an ECA will let you know the exact amount of ethanol in the fuel you are purchasing so you can obtain the proper mix of fuel. Just because you are purchasing fuel from an E85 pump that does not mean the fuel contains a full 85% of ethanol.

[Loe]

i've been pretty lucky in FL. I just recently filled with 90% ethanol off a station in Port St. Lucie (Sunoco off Gatlin Blvd near i-95 if anyone is in the area, just tested it yesterday evening). Stations closer to my home in Sarasota, FL are normally in the 83-87% range.

At any rate, 37.7% is my magic number for my particular car.

[rtl5009]

We recommend doing an e30 blend (about 4.5 gallons) with our race mode. It should not throw codes. For future consideration, you can run up to 6.5 gallons of E85 for additional performance. You should allow for at least 20 miles for the map to adapt, but otherwise it doesn't take much time.

Is the boost profile different on the race map than the pump map?

[Loe]

Is the boost profile different on the race map than the pump map?

it isn't, the B8.5 "boost dip" is still present on the stage II pump file as much as it is on the race file.

[SR7D1]

Great thread! I was going to start one in a similar vein:

I was wondering what is more cost effective or sensible next step in the HP increase process?

Upgrade to the GIAC S2+ (DP) or Run the S2 Race file all the time with E85 (blend or full on)

If my cost calculations are correct:

The DP upgrade will be about $1500 (parts, labor and taxes if I install the crank pulley myself)
The Race file feature will cost about $1000 (HP and LP fuel pump and Flex-it ECA with bluetooth, no labor, I install myself)

Hard to tell which makes more sense. And I forgot to mention, I track the car at road courses.

Thoughts?

Here is the link to the ECA I would get. Whiped tells me he is researching a less expensive alternative.

http://www.fuel-it.biz/flex-fuel-sen...ooth-analyzer/

[whiped]

You don't need the upgraded fuel pumps to run some E85 on Stage II.

I already posted about my ECA solution: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ntent-Analyzer

I still need to do some research on HPFP alternatives. The $400 autotech wants for the HPFP piston is a bit much. (You can buy a new pump for less than that)

I'd start with some E85 because it is cheap and go from there.

Add in 4 gals to a tank of 93 and see how you like it.

Feel free to txt me if you have questions.

[SR7D1]

You don't need the upgraded fuel pumps to run some E85 on Stage II.

I already posted about my ECA solution: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ntent-Analyzer

I still need to do some research on HPFP alternatives. The $400 autotech wants for the HPFP piston is a bit much. (You can buy a new pump for less than that)

I'd start with some E85 because it is cheap and go from there.

Add in 4 gals to a tank of 93 and see how you like it.

Feel free to txt me if you have questions.

Thanks Geoff, I already run 4-5G of E85 on occasion. That has always been enough to max out the pump gas file from GIAC. So with me considering running race all the time, abandoning pump all together (instead of buying the crank pulley and upgraded GIAC file) I wanted to remove any doubt regarding issues if I added more or full E85 and just always run the race file? Make sense?

[theweebabyseamus]

You don't need the upgraded fuel pumps to run some E85 on Stage II.

I already posted about my ECA solution: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ntent-Analyzer

I still need to do some research on HPFP alternatives. The $400 autotech wants for the HPFP piston is a bit much. (You can buy a new pump for less than that)

I'd start with some E85 because it is cheap and go from there.

Add in 4 gals to a tank of 93 and see how you like it.

Feel free to txt me if you have questions.

I agree, but the Autotech will still outflow the new HPFP in either case. I do wish it were cheaper though. Its just a piston and spring, $400 seems a bit much.

[SR7D1]

So to dig deeper, what needs to be done first, to run full E85? The existing threads on this, give a few different variables, so I want to approach this solution with guys that have gone full on E85.

1. Upgrade the HPFP
2. Log with VCDS (what field/parameter?)
3. Depending on said logs, upgrade the LPFP?
4. I see ECS has a replacement LPFP, but I cannot tell if it's the flex fuel model?

Thanks for the input everyone!

[Loe]

I wouldn't venture into full E85 just yet.

[S4UCE]

Ethanol content is hard to calculate unless you know the ethanol content of the gas in your car and of the E85 you're adding. You call ballpark pretty well but it is not worth it to me if you are frequently blending.

There are lots of bad things that can happen from running lean. Pison failure is a big one.

General question for everybody blending E85 - Do you guys run wideband O2 sensors?

[SR7D1]

General question for everybody blending E85 - Do you guys run wideband O2 sensors?

No, but I log with VCDS.

[SR7D1]

I wouldn't venture into full E85 just yet.

Loe, are you running any FP upgrades, high or low? (I could not tell from your signature?)

Also, why no full E85 yet? I thought there were several members running full on? Seems to me like a cheap way to run the RACE file all the time?

[rtl5009]

No, but I log with VCDS.

The car has dual Widebands from the factory! You are running them!

[S4UCE]

I guess I should update my question then to - Do you guys run a standalone AFR gauge or at least regularly look at AFR a multi functional gauge like the P3?

Just curious because when running meth on my B5, I would always keep an eye on AFR at wot to check for lean conditions in the event of some kind of failure of in the meth system. When running a loose mix (not doing exact measurements) of E85 (which varies in ethanol content to begin with) I would think one would want to keep an eye on AFR after filling up to make sure the ECU is properly adapting to it.

[13ttaz]

My experience running ethanol blended fuel on REVO and then GIAC race tunes has not revealed that an upgraded HPFP is required. Then again, I am presently using GIAC's fuel pump kit. Which unfortunately is not entirely a drama-free affair if the hose between the t-fitting and fuel regulator rips or opens up from the increased fuel delivery pressure.

Those of you that upgraded your HPFP, what did you see or experience in running your tune on ethanol blended fuel that led you to conclude you need to install the Autotech HPFP, or did you do so simply as a prophylactic measure?

My experience and observation is what ethanol fuel blend and what fueling upgrades you need to use to optimally run on race tunes is far from well settled, at least for me.

[Loe]

Loe, are you running any FP upgrades, high or low? (I could not tell from your signature?)

Also, why no full E85 yet? I thought there were several members running full on? Seems to me like a cheap way to run the RACE file all the time?

PM sent, "full E85" isn't what it truly is... it makes for great marketing though!

[13ttaz]

^^^ Loe, I thought you concluded you did not need the HPFP and were going to jettison it?

[jachien]

PM sent, "full E85" isn't what it truly is... it makes for great marketing though!

I think originally "full e85" was in reference to a full tank of e85 instead of a mix. What do you mean by "it isn't what it truly is?"


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