What if you're tuning company goes out of business?

[SouthernBoy]

Not playing devil's advocate at all but this thought occurred to me this morning. What happens if the tuning company you went with goes out of business while you're running their tune and you are still in your warranty period? With them gone, you are not going to be able to get your original software re-flashed for your ECU. This could prematurely kill your warranty and on the S4, that could be a pretty costly affair.

The real answer to this would be for the company to supply you with your original software on a flash drive or SD card so that if this ever happened, you could at least take it somewhere that has the equipment to do a flash and have your ECU returned to OEM factory spec.

Any thoughts on this?

[MrFunk]

There is going to be some degree of risk when modifying your car. There are way to minimize that risk by making educated decisions.
That being said; If you are going to loose sleep thinking about every other situation in which the big bad dealership may "find out" you flashed your ECU then you may want to just avoid it all together.

[fitzydude]

You could just got to another tuner and have them flash it with the OEM file. When I switched from Revo to EPL I flashed my ECU with OEM software that EPL had on file for my ECU.

[SouthernBoy]

You could just got to another tuner and have them flash it with the OEM file. When I switched from Revo to EPL I flashed my ECU with OEM software that EPL had on file for my ECU.

So EPL didn't have software that actually was installed in your car (of course) but via you VIN, (would think) had the proper version which was compliant with your ECU as shipped? I wondered about this and thanks for the info.

[SouthernBoy]

There is going to be some degree of risk when modifying your car. There are way to minimize that risk by making educated decisions.
That being said; If you are going to loose sleep thinking about every other situation in which the big bad dealership may "find out" you flashed your ECU then you may want to just avoid it all together.

Not losing any sleep, just curious about the potential pitfalls, if any may be present in my initial question. I haven't taken the decision to do any of this and was just posing this to see if it was a valid consideration.

[SR7D1]

Not losing any sleep, just curious about the potential pitfalls, if any may be present in my initial question. I haven't taken the decision to do any of this and was just posing this to see if it was a valid consideration.

Have you considered Chipwerke? I used them for about a year and had no complaints. You can remove it before visiting the dealer and it involves no flashing of your ECU. Most importantly, no sleepless nights for you.

https://www.chipwerke.com/

[SouthernBoy]

Have you considered Chipwerke? I used them for about a year and had no complaints. You can remove it before visiting the dealer and it involves no flashing of your ECU. Most importantly, no sleepless nights for you.

https://www.chipwerke.com/

Yes I have. I've done quite a bit of research on this site, and others, about Chipwerke's products and it has some major attractions to its use. I was more curious about what might happen if a tuner went out of business and if its customers were left high and dry with their flashed ECU's.

Haven't taken any decisions for myself at this point... just trying to gather some information. What I am mostly concerned about is the car's performance in second, third, and fourth gear (mine has a manual transmission). First gear pulls great. But due to the ratio spread between first and second gears, and the weight and lower torque rating, second, third, and fourth gear are not all that wild in their acceleration. For example, my best 50-70 time in fourth gear is 3.81 seconds. My '66 396/360 Chevelle, with simple bolt-on mods, did this in three seconds flat. And my '88 Mustang LX 302, with simple bolt-ons and a 3.55 rear, did it in 4.1 seconds. So my interests tend to be in real world results and how the car does on the street. Not for racing but rather for pleasure and peace of mind. I know that the times this car tends to turn in are in large part the result of the launch. With AWD and virtually no wheel spin, E.T.'s will be lower. But when I see times in the neighborhood of 13.1 seconds with terminal speeds of around 104 MPH, that tells me the car is doing most of its work in the first two gears and its accelerative rate falls off quickly from third gear on. Anyway, I have no intention to drag race or track my S4. Being an older gearhead, I just enjoy a solid performance machine that has really good acceleration and throttle response.

As for Chipwerke vs a tune, were I to go this route, I would probably be more interested in a tune in order to get the whole package. The software, being resident in the ECU, is going to control the entire cadre of processes involved in engine management. Timing, fuel delivery, boost, and a host of other components. This seems to me to be much like what the car has in its stock form, only more attuned to the performance angle. I should think that driveability and everyday operation would be transparent to the owner other than feeling increased responsiveness with slight tip-ins of the throttle. That appeals to me.

[Chris@EPL]

So EPL didn't have software that actually was installed in your car (of course) but via you VIN, (would think) had the proper version which was compliant with your ECU as shipped? I wondered about this and thanks for the info.

We have all the OEM files on file and put them on your server to install on your car. Unlike other tuners we work directly with the customer so you would have the OEM file information yourself. You would know your part number and software version.

[Race Shooter]

Or you can just go back to Audi and have them flash you back to stock. You wouldnt be TD1 as they're putting the car back to stock, so they wont care.

Only downside is the charge to have it done.

That would be void if you had a warranty issue you wanted to get fixed before getting it flashed back to stock. But if your company goes under and you're concerned, you could just drive right to Audi while the car was in ok shape and have them put the stock tune on it.

[S4Flyer]

IMO, there is a bigger general concern that regulations may come about that require ECU versions be checked during inspection and emissions testing.

VW was/is being dragged across the coals for their emissions cheating, lawmakers may soon realize ECU tunes have the potential to change emissions as well.

It isn't difficult to image states (CA especially) legislating that ECU versions need to be OEM versions to pass emissions testing.

Here, again, piggybacks seem to be a good solution. I'd go CW myself, but it was a miserable experience with my DSG.

[doug97gxe]

Not playing devil's advocate at all but this thought occurred to me this morning. What happens if the tuning company you went with goes out of business while you're running their tune and you are still in your warranty period? With them gone, you are not going to be able to get your original software re-flashed for your ECU. This could prematurely kill your warranty and on the S4, that could be a pretty costly affair.

The real answer to this would be for the company to supply you with your original software on a flash drive or SD card so that if this ever happened, you could at least take it somewhere that has the equipment to do a flash and have your ECU returned to OEM factory spec.

Any thoughts on this?

I actually went through this with a different car. The options were to get someone else to tune it who was certified in that EMS ... get a different EMS/Tune ... sell the car ..

at the end of the day i choose to sell the car

[bhvrdr]

I would think worst case scenario is you just go with another reputable tuner who should have your stock file and revision available too.

One thing everyone should do is take a screenshot of their stock file and revision number. This is not always the same for the same model year. An example is audi did an update,to my ecu code to version 0004 so my vin would have had version 0002 last month but version 0004 this month. Youd want version 0004 to go back on or youll get a td1 for failing spec actual

[SouthernBoy]

Or you can just go back to Audi and have them flash you back to stock. You wouldnt be TD1 as they're putting the car back to stock, so they wont care.

Only downside is the charge to have it done.

That would be void if you had a warranty issue you wanted to get fixed before getting it flashed back to stock. But if your company goes under and you're concerned, you could just drive right to Audi while the car was in ok shape and have them put the stock tune on it.

Wouldn't Audi check to see if there was an after market flash in place before they did this?

[SouthernBoy]

I would think worst case scenario is you just go with another reputable tuner who should have your stock file and revision available too.

One thing everyone should do is take a screenshot of their stock file and revision number. This is not always the same for the same model year. An example is audi did an update,to my ecu code to version 0004 so my vin would have had version 0002 last month but version 0004 this month. Youd want version 0004 to go back on or youll get a td1 for failing spec actual

Yep, I thought about this. For example, I had a recall notice last year which involved emissions. My guess is that recall resulted from the VW mess and Audi was probably just being proactive. Software releases can come about at any time so unless a tuner has all of the latest revisions, like you said you are most likely just going to get the version that was tagged for your year and model.

I went by a local shop this morning, again, who offers Unitronic tunes. I am interested in their 1+ tune since 93 is readily available in my state and in those states where I visit. I have read some really good things about this tune and am most attracted to its driveability and the fact that it pretty much acts like the stock tune, only releasing more power.

I also have followed your exploits with Chipwerke and Unitronics. Your level of detail is amazing and is of a great help to me (my head is still wrapped around carburetors and more simple fuel injection systems). So I admit that I am somewhat torn between Chipwerke's products and a flash tune.

One question about Chopwerke, please. Does it force the engine to surge at neutral throttle openings at low engine speeds in lower gears (I have the manual tyranny)? Or is it seamless and transparent in that department?

[theweebabyseamus]

*your

[LittleDozer]

What if you are tuning company goes out of business

[Race Shooter]

Wouldn't Audi check to see if there was an after market flash in place before they did this?

Yes, actually you'd just tell them you have a car that had a tune on it but you want to go back to the stock Audi tune.

They'll charge you, but you should not have any issues as Audi has already said in various memos that you can undo a TD1 by going back to stock. So it wont matter, you're asking to go back to stock so you wont get any TD1 as there is no reason to put a TD1 on a stock car.

The only issue would be if you were having a warranty problem already, then they'd say its due to the tune and you'd have to pay to fix that first. But simply going back to stock shouldnt cause any issue or headache with Audi other than dealership labor rates to do a flash.

Once stock you can then do another tune if you want with a company that is in business. LOL

[SouthernBoy]

Yes, actually you'd just tell them you have a car that had a tune on it but you want to go back to the stock Audi tune.

They'll charge you, but you should not have any issues as Audi has already said in various memos that you can undo a TD1 by going back to stock. So it wont matter, you're asking to go back to stock so you wont get any TD1 as there is no reason to put a TD1 on a stock car.

The only issue would be if you were having a warranty problem already, then they'd say its due to the tune and you'd have to pay to fix that first. But simply going back to stock shouldnt cause any issue or headache with Audi other than dealership labor rates to do a flash.

Once stock you can then do another tune if you want with a company that is in business. LOL

Sounds interesting with one exception. I am the original owner and that would show up when they pulled up my VIN.

[bhvrdr]

Yep, I thought about this. For example, I had a recall notice last year which involved emissions. My guess is that recall resulted from the VW mess and Audi was probably just being proactive. Software releases can come about at any time so unless a tuner has all of the latest revisions, like you said you are most likely just going to get the version that was tagged for your year and model.

I went by a local shop this morning, again, who offers Unitronic tunes. I am interested in their 1+ tune since 93 is readily available in my state and in those states where I visit. I have read some really good things about this tune and am most attracted to its driveability and the fact that it pretty much acts like the stock tune, only releasing more power.

I also have followed your exploits with Chipwerke and Unitronics. Your level of detail is amazing and is of a great help to me (my head is still wrapped around carburetors and more simple fuel injection systems). So I admit that I am somewhat torn between Chipwerke's products and a flash tune.

One question about Chopwerke, please. Does it force the engine to surge at neutral throttle openings at low engine speeds in lower gears (I have the manual tyranny)? Or is it seamless and transparent in that department?

thanks man. The one drawback to CW is with DSG cars there can be part throttle tip-in issues at low rpm where the box starts manipulating the signal. When you transition into a gear change at a very low rpm like 1500rpm you may get a jerkiness that is usually not present with a good flash tune. The CW folks could address this by plugging into the cam sensor and playing with ramping the signal slowly but it seems like they are done with development for now on this platform. I had tried to get them to make a more aggressive map for stage 2 cars and they never responded.

Mike

[onlyaudis]

Chipwerke also works best on 93 octane. if you have both a DSG and only 91 octane available, its not the best choice IMO.

[whiped]

thanks man. The one drawback to CW is with DSG cars there can be part throttle tip-in issues at low rpm where the box starts manipulating the signal. When you transition into a gear change at a very low rpm like 1500rpm you may get a jerkiness that is usually not present with a good flash tune. The CW folks could address this by plugging into the cam sensor and playing with ramping the signal slowly but it seems like they are done with development for now on this platform. I had tried to get them to make a more aggressive map for stage 2 cars and they never responded.

Mike

Same here Mike, gave them a call, sent them some logs. No response yet

[Race Shooter]

Sounds interesting with one exception. I am the original owner and that would show up when they pulled up my VIN.

Why would that matter.

You have an Audi, you want it stock, they'll do it for you if you pay for it. Again, no reason for them to TD1 you because the car will be stock. Even if you did the mods and got your car listed as TD1, going back to stock can get the TD1 flag removed. So in this case, doing that shouldnt be an issue. Whether you modded it or not.

[SouthernBoy]

thanks man. The one drawback to CW is with DSG cars there can be part throttle tip-in issues at low rpm where the box starts manipulating the signal. When you transition into a gear change at a very low rpm like 1500rpm you may get a jerkiness that is usually not present with a good flash tune. The CW folks could address this by plugging into the cam sensor and playing with ramping the signal slowly but it seems like they are done with development for now on this platform. I had tried to get them to make a more aggressive map for stage 2 cars and they never responded.

Mike

Thanks so much for this. It is one of my primary concerns. My '04 Acura TL started to surge and not hold a steady engine speed at lower RPM's in the lower gears, such as second gear in traffic. I hunted around a bit and found that the cable leading to the electric throttle position sensor had developed some slack so I removed the slack and that helped. But it was most likely a problem with that sensor. Manual transmissions can magnify this sort of behavior since the entire drive train is locked once the clutch is fully engaged. This is one of the main reasons I am considering a tune.

The idea of reading the cam sensor makes perfect sense, by the way.

- - - Updated - - -

Chipwerke also works best on 93 octane. if you have both a DSG and only 91 octane available, its not the best choice IMO.

Thanks. I have a manual and 93 is what we have here for premium grade gasoline.

[SouthernBoy]

Why would that matter.

You have an Audi, you want it stock, they'll do it for you if you pay for it. Again, no reason for them to TD1 you because the car will be stock. Even if you did the mods and got your car listed as TD1, going back to stock can get the TD1 flag removed. So in this case, doing that shouldnt be an issue. Whether you modded it or not.

This is valuable information for me; thank you.