Stage II ECU and DSG Tune, Intakes, Downpipes, and Exhaust: Avoiding the Dreaded TD1

[GT-R & S4]

I wanted to share my personal experiences as someone who's only owned their '15 S4 for two years, and for most of that time I've been running on a GIAC Stage II ECU and DSG tune. I also went with aftermarket intakes by ISP, as well as AWE resonated downpipes and Touring exhaust. Since then I have had my vehicle in for Audi service twice, the 15K and 25K service (the latter just a couple of days ago). Prior to each service, I took my vehicle into a tuner (Induktion Motorsports, of Linthicum Heights, Maryland, for the 15K, and Forge Motorsport of Orlando, Florida, for the 25K). In both instances a full scan was performed on my vehicle by the Audi technician, and nothing showed up. No sign of a tune, and equally important, no sign that the flash counter was reset. Also note that the 25K service involved a software update, for the ECU recall on the vehicle. Both Induktion and Forge did outstanding work on flashing me to stock, then back to my tune when the Audi service was completed. Yes, it is inconvenient to have to flash to stock, have the service done by Audi, then flash back to my tune. But since I only imagine having to come to the Audi dealer once a year for required service (not counting on oil changes due before the next service--I'll take care of that on my own), it's worth it for the much, much better performance I'm enjoying with the vehicle.

[chrisucf99]

I just tell my Audi Dealer Service Advisor that I'm tuned and to not hook my car up to their computer. He says cool, all good. Simple as that ;)

[B18b1ex]

I just tell my Audi Dealer Service Advisor that I'm tuned and to not hook my car up to their computer. He says cool, all good. Simple as that ;)

This works until some idiot tech runs a comparison test.


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[quickglx]

Have you actually checked on elsa for td1? Since you had the ECU update done(24CO?), curious if it was flagged. There is no alert to tell you a tune has been discovered, it is a background process. A simple scan for faults etc will never uncover a tuned ECM. The ECM is flashed automatically through an an SVM code where it scans all the installed control modules and updates as found needed. Perhaps a spec/actual scan goes a step further? This is what you want to avoid. If you like, send me your VIN via PM and I will check. I have a 24CO campaign open on my car, but I'd rather it not be flagged... Even if I am well out of the NVLW period.

[GT-R & S4]

A simple scan for faults etc will never uncover a tuned ECM.

But we're talking about a vehicle that has been scanned back to stock when Audi scans it. Also, I would think that with the recent ECU recall and associated software update, Audi had a pretty good look inside my car.

[Jroyalty7]

Sorry OP not trying to be a thread jacker but curious about something. I have not flashed my car yet as im waiting on my warranty to expire next month. However I've done supporting mods like suspension, drivetrain inserts, and p3 gauge in the meantime. My SA at the dealership one time questioned me if my car was ever chip tuned which I denied, and it hasn't, but I'm curious now if they could td1 me and not tell me due to the other things on my car? I honestly just don't want the flag on my car for resale purposes down the road etc... any way to find this out?

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[GT-R & S4]

Sorry OP not trying to be a thread jacker but curious about something. I have not flashed my car yet as im waiting on my warranty to expire next month. However I've done supporting mods like suspension, drivetrain inserts, and p3 gauge in the meantime. My SA at the dealership one time questioned me if my car was ever chip tuned which I denied, and it hasn't, but I'm curious now if they could td1 me and not tell me due to the other things on my car? I honestly just don't want the flag on my car for resale purposes down the road etc... any way to find this out?

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I'm not expert on this matter, and I would venture to say most people on this forum aren't either. Most that claim to be are what we used to call in the military, "Barracks Lawyers". I think the rule of thumb with respect to an Audi service department rejecting a warranty claim is that they could use whatever modifications you've had done to the vehicle, software or hardware wise, and try to use that as a reason to reject your claim. An ECU and/or DSG tune would be an easy way to reject a claim, because a tune could conceivably affect so much of the vehicle's engine and transmission. The onus would unfortunately be on us, the vehicle owners, to prove the tune was not the cause or at least a contributor to a malfunction. I think in a best case scenario, where you're up front with your service adviser about what you've had done with the car, and if the dealership is at least making an attempt to be reasonable with you, could probably go a long way in helping support a warranty claim if the tune really isn't the cause of any malfunction. If it is, own up to it and take it up with your tuner. But if you're trying to hide something from the dealership and then make a warranty claim, that would probably make the dealership that much less likely to want to at least hear you out and go to bat for you. Also, I have had my vehicles flashed back to stock before any service, so that I don't put my dealership in a position whereby they could possibly discover a tune and then have to act upon that, whether they wanted to or not. Establish a good rapport with your Audi service department, be up front with them and honest, and that will probably go a long way. Sure, some service techs and advisers are going to be jerks, but that's why you need to shop around for a decent place first to have your vehicle serviced, and one that you can establish and maintain a good professional relationship.

[PopTart]

I'm currently Stock. I took my car to 2 places for an appraisal: Carmax & Audi. Carmax offered me $2K MORE than Audi. I kept my car Stock because I assumed Audi would offer me more. Next week is my appointment for APR Stage II.

Sorry OP not trying to be a thread jacker but curious about something. I have not flashed my car yet as im waiting on my warranty to expire next month. However I've done supporting mods like suspension, drivetrain inserts, and p3 gauge in the meantime. My SA at the dealership one time questioned me if my car was ever chip tuned which I denied, and it hasn't, but I'm curious now if they could td1 me and not tell me due to the other things on my car? I honestly just don't want the flag on my car for resale purposes down the road etc... any way to find this out?

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[GT-R & S4]

I'm currently Stock. I took my car to 2 places for an appraisal: Carmax & Audi. Carmax offered me $2K MORE than Audi. I kept my car Stock because I assumed Audi would offer me more. Next week is my appointment for APR Stage II.

I think most places are giving auction prices. Last August or September, the CarMax in Orlando offered me $39K for my vehicle. The other day, just for grins, a Dodge dealer offered me $38K. I stopped by because they were offering $750 a month three-year lease on either a Challenger or Charger Hellcat.

[Thurston]

I've had success flashing back to the stock file thus far as well.

[quickglx]

But we're talking about a vehicle that has been scanned back to stock when Audi scans it. Also, I would think that with the recent ECU recall and associated software update, Audi had a pretty good look inside my car.

Exactly why I am curious how it couldn't have been flagged. Unless like I mentioned, the specified/actual comparison looks for something else that the update SVM code doesn't... It doesn't matter if you flash it back to stock. Some how they are able to see that it was previously tuned. I hope you're right

[GT-R & S4]

Exactly why I am curious how it couldn't have been flagged. Unless like I mentioned, the specified/actual comparison looks for something else that the update SVM code doesn't... It doesn't matter if you flash it back to stock. Some how they are able to see that it was previously tuned. I hope you're right

I'm not sure how a tuner is able to flash a vehicle back to stock and remove any evidence of a previous tune. I know the tuner how to break the encryption protecting the ECU module first, and once there, I can only guess that wiping their tracks with respect to removing a tune is akin to a hacker gaining unauthorized access to a system and altering the audit logs to remove any indication of what happened. In this case it would be removal of the tune map file, as well as reset counter. All I know is that is works and I'm happy with my tune.

[AC419]

Brought my car into the dealer today to get my coolant error looked at, my service rep tells me that I'm TD1, so Audi would not cover the repairs since I'm tuned. Been bringing my car in hoping that I wouldn't get flagged.. oh well

[bhvrdr]

I look at it as if a 5 to 10K dollar repair would set you back significantly with respect to finances, keep the car's performance stock and enjoy aesthetic upgrades. If it would suck but not be something you'd really be thinking about a month later, mod away and hope for the best but be ready for the worst.


Mike

[GT-R & S4]

Brought my car into the dealer today to get my coolant error looked at, my service rep tells me that I'm TD1, so Audi would not cover the repairs since I'm tuned. Been bringing my car in hoping that I wouldn't get flagged.. oh well

Had you flashed back to stock previously before taking your vehicle to an Audi dealer for service? If not, you were just playing Russian Roulette with your warranty.

[GT-R & S4]

I look at it as if a 5 to 10K dollar repair would set you back significantly with respect to finances, keep the car's performance stock and enjoy aesthetic upgrades. If it would suck but not be something you'd really be thinking about a month later, mod away and hope for the best but be ready for the worst.


Mike

+1 Exactly. If I had a bonafide issue that was not the result of my tune, I would expect Audi to cover that. Now I realize that this could go down the rabbit hole of opinions, but I'm saying I would at least address the dealership first to fix something that was not related to my tune. Of course, as many of us now, having a tune gives Audi leverage in pointing the blame at your tune for many things, related to a genuine fault or not.

[AC419]

Had you flashed back to stock previously before taking your vehicle to an Audi dealer for service? If not, you were just playing Russian Roulette with your warranty.

Hi, sorry for the late response. I apparently I did, but the dealer was still able to scan and trigger a TD1.

[GT-R & S4]

Hi, sorry for the late response. I apparently I did, but the dealer was still able to scan and trigger a TD1.

What tune do you have? Mine is AWE/GIAC Stage 2, engine and DSG. Prior to both my 15K and 25K service appointments, I went back to my tuner and was flashed to stock. The GIAC tune was completely removed and just as importantly, there were no indication that the flash counter had been tripped. I'm sure if Audi were intent on it, they could develop code that could aggressively scan more thoroughly than the routine scans they use. Face it, it's a cat and mouse game, unfortunately, so you have to be as thorough as possible.

[bmoreS4]

I've had success flashing back to the stock file thus far as well.

Same here, I've had mine in twice since I bought it. Flashed the ECU and TCU back to stock at home using the EPL software, had zero issues.

[Race Shooter]

Have either of you guys though actually checked with Audi to see if you're TD1? Just because you havent been told you are, doesnt mean it hasnt happened on the back end when the car was plugged in. If you havent had a warranty issue that TD1 would void, there may have been no reason for you to have ever been told that you are TD1.

Additionally, flashing back to stock can remove the remnants of a tune, even if the flash counter is reset, there are still traces in the computer that can be used to tell this has happened. These cars are all "black boxes" of data being recorded. Things like boost is recorded and cannot be reset as well as many other variables.

Even without a trace of a tune, if the car has shown significant time at higher boost that stock, they could use that "prove" the car has been tuned, which even makes things like Chipwerke potentially warranty voiding. Its just a matter of how deep Audi wants to dig if there is an issue.

Now before we start yelling "well Audi has to prove it," yes that is true, but how many of you will fight Audi in court over such a thing? Are you really going to take them to court and spend thousands of dollars in order to try to make them try to prove that that $5000 ring job was caused by your tune? Sure, they need to prove it, but you need to get them in court to do that and that is likely going to cost a lot more than what your trying to get them to cover.

So in cases of expensive warranty claims, I'm sure Audi can dig fairly deep into their software without too much trouble to find something they can use against you if they have doubts as to whether the car has been stock or not. Again, just a matter of how hard they want to try.

Bottom line, is if you tune, you need to be prepared to pay if you have an issue, no matter what you think you're doing to prevent it.

Again, I'd be interested in having you guys have Audi run your VINs and see if you may actually be TD1, you just werent alerted by the dealer because they either didnt, or possibly didnt even know when it happened in the background while connected to Audi corporate computers.

[s4hype]

I thought Audi developed some new software that can tell if you're flashed or not. So even if you flashed back to stock Audi can still tell. OP should run his VIN to make sure 100%.

[GT-R & S4]

I thought Audi developed some new software that can tell if you're flashed or not. So even if you flashed back to stock Audi can still tell. OP should run his VIN to make sure 100%.

I'm very happy with my Stage 2 tune, intakes, DP's, and exhaust, and I'm okay with the risk/reward aspect. I've been completely upfront with my Audi Service Department about my tune. I flashed back to stock before the 15K and 25K service, just so I wouldn't put them in a position of finding the tune and having to slap the TD1 Scarlet Letter on my vehicle, ha-ha. I knew I was taking a risk when I had the aftermarket work and tune performed, and I'm okay with that. The performance of my S4 is really good now, and I say that having come from a couple of GT-R's and a couple of CTS-V's. In fact, I did a few highway pulls with someone in a GT-R a couple of weeks ago, and even though he obviously ran ahead of me, I wasn't that far behind. As far as running my VIN through Audi, I suppose I could do that. But I'm not overly concerned.

[Race Shooter]

I flashed back to stock before the 15K and 25K service, just so I wouldn't put them in a position of finding the tune and having to slap the TD1 Scarlet Letter on my vehicle, ha-ha.

Its not up to them though. If they hook it up, it has a chance of being flagged by corporate, they have zero control over it. Which is why I suggested you may be flagged even though havent been told.

They can manually TD1 a car if they see suspension, intakes or other items, but, while I have heard of it being done, I think many places wont manually do it if you're up front and cool. However, as soon as your hooked up to the computer, its all automatic.

[GT-R & S4]

Its not up to them though. If they hook it up, it has a chance of being flagged by corporate, they have zero control over it. Which is why I suggested you may be flagged even though havent been told.

They can manually TD1 a car if they see suspension, intakes or other items, but, while I have heard of it being done, I think many places wont manually do it if you're up front and cool. However, as soon as your hooked up to the computer, its all automatic.

I hear what you're saying, and I"m sure your advice will be helpful to some on this board. Again, I'm very happy with my tune and am not going to lose any sleep over the spectre of a TD1 code. I am not going to recklessly handle the tune and my Audi service to the point where I'm asking for trouble. I'm comfortable that I've been careful and done my due diligence, so that I can enjoy a tune that has made my S4 very fast, or at least much faster than stock.

[s4hype]

I hear what you're saying, and I"m sure your advice will be helpful to some on this board. Again, I'm very happy with my tune and am not going to lose any sleep over the spectre of a TD1 code. I am not going to recklessly handle the tune and my Audi service to the point where I'm asking for trouble. I'm comfortable that I've been careful and done my due diligence, so that I can enjoy a tune that has made my S4 very fast, or at least much faster than stock.

I don't know what the hype is all about warranties but at 500 miles I got reflashed and knock on wood I've never needed warranty claims.

[LINDW4LL]

I don't know what the hype is all about warranties but at 500 miles I got reflashed and knock on wood I've never needed warranty claims.

The "hype" about warranties is that when your engine fails due to a freak factory defect, you're not out the $17,499.92 plus labor that Audi will charge for a new engine.

[GT-R & S4]

The "hype" about warranties is that when your engine fails due to a freak factory defect, you're not out the $17,499.92 plus labor that Audi will charge for a new engine.

Lots of other cars are modded within warranty, so I don't understand why the paranoia over just Audi. I'm sure any vehicle manufacturer will at least consider trying to assign blame to a vehicle owner over a warranty claim, if they suspect the car has been modified in any way. If Audi is by itself in tagging cars with modifications, for the sole purpose of being able to deny warranty claims, then maybe we're on to something.