Abs relocation/ delete questions

[fleener22]

In the process of getting my motor done and plan is to clean up the engine bay as well as I can.
Things in mind:
Battery to trunk
Relocate coolant tank, power steering, and windshield wash fluid bottle
Then it comes to the abs Iv seen many people move the units behind the secondary fire wall and some people delete them and run a prop valve with lines going to each break.
I would just like to have more help on this and how you ran the lines if you relocated it or what you did to delete it.
Thanks!

[JJ.]

I would never delete it, but relocate it behind the seconday firewall. I have no idea how to, but there are some topics on Audizine of people who've done this.

And show us when you get on with it, always interested!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Trb1]

Just will have to bend and flare the brake lines. Potentially extend the wiring as well. Shouldn't be difficult, just timely to get it looking good. Definitely do NOT delete your abs (plus whats the purpose since you have to retain the pump anyways). Your rear brakes will lock up big time before your fronts if you do. That's a pretty scary experience, especially when it happens at the speeds these cars can do. Ask me how I know.

[fleener22]

Thanks for the feed back have been trying to read as much as I can on it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xdewaynex]

People have deleted the abs on these cars, but you will need an adjustable proportioning valve for the rear brake lines. Im planning on doing it to my A4 since its no longer my daily. My abs module has been electronically unplugged since I bought the car in 09 and its never been a problem. The front lines come straight off the master cylinder and the rears are connected to a proportioning valve that you have to adjust. I bought a Wilwood valve a year ago, still need to piece together the extra lines and fittings.

[fleener22]

People have deleted the abs on these cars, but you will need an adjustable proportioning valve for the rear brake lines. Im planning on doing it to my A4 since its no longer my daily. My abs module has been electronically unplugged since I bought the car in 09 and its never been a problem. The front lines come straight off the master cylinder and the rears are connected to a proportioning valve that you have to adjust. I bought a Wilwood valve a year ago, still need to piece together the extra lines and fittings.

That's what Iv read also I was just wondering what people have the best luck with from experience and if anyone had pictures of how everything was done for either way relocated or deleted

[xdewaynex]

I dont know about the S4 section, but there are a few guys in the A4 section that have relocated the module and have pics. I can only recall 1 person here in the S4 section who done the delete, cant remember who it is at the moment, but his setup is where I got my idea from. There is an A4 user I follow on Instagram that is doing the delete as well. Relocating is a bit more work considering you have to move the battery to the rear, but youre planning on doing that anyways. I just like simplicity and have no use for ABS.

[fleener22]

I dont know about the S4 section, but there are a few guys in the A4 section that have relocated the module and have pics. I can only recall 1 person here in the S4 section who done the delete, cant remember who it is at the moment, but his setup is where I got my idea from. There is an A4 user I follow on Instagram that is doing the delete as well. Relocating is a bit more work considering you have to move the battery to the rear, but youre planning on doing that anyways. I just like simplicity and have no use for ABS.

Very true cinesnow is the one I know who deleted it in the s4, I wouldn't mind looking at the a4 section or instagram if you have names of the people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xdewaynex]

Thats who I was thinking of, had to go back into my pm's. coopacoopacoopa is on Instagram that deleted his. Needinganaudi I believe is Alex's username on here that relocated his, Im drawing a blank on the others.

[rguil]

Just rip it out and put a eastwood bias valve in then sell your abs brain on ebay.
Done

[Trb1]

I suppose you could add a proportioning valve in place, but what's the point? If you really want to do something with it just move it. ABS is beneficial in essentially every scenario for a street and track car. It'd be dangerous to delete it for style points.

[S4tech2]

I suppose you could add a proportioning valve in place, but what's the point? If you really want to do something with it just move it. ABS is beneficial in essentially every scenario for a street and track car. It'd be dangerous to delete it for style points.

Why do many track events like spec Miata require the abs to be deactivated then? I run the ttrs front brakes and 300mm rear rotorwith stock caliper and I've only activated abs once, and when it came on I could feel the car not stopping near as hard before it came on. I've personally just learned about where when it comes on just avoid that area of braking.

[Timtheguru]

Why do many track events like spec Miata require the abs to be deactivated then? I run the ttrs front brakes and 300mm rear rotorwith stock caliper and I've only activated abs once, and when it came on I could feel the car not stopping near as hard before it came on. I've personally just learned about where when it comes on just avoid that area of braking.

Probably has to do with the weight of the vehicle, but just a guess.

Miatas weight ~ 2,332 to 2,381 lbs

B5 S4 weight ~ 1,535 kg (3,384 lb) to 1,680 kg (3,704 lb)

(Source: Google)

[chris86vw]

Why do many track events like spec Miata require the abs to be deactivated then?

Because it is a spec class and all cars must be the same. Not all had ABS or it failed years ago so it was disabled/bypassed. Removing ABS is easier than adding ABS so the rules say to delete it.

It is for creating an even playing field, many classes still allow ABS, some even allow for using different units that add or delete features like traction control or specific motorsport units that can be tuned.


As for your brake setup and allegedly never using ABS? You use it EVERY time you touch the brake pedal because it is the ABS that is handling the bias especially with your modified brakes. Just because you aren't getting the pulsing feeling through the pedal does not mean ABS isn't active.

[Trb1]

Why do many track events like spec Miata require the abs to be deactivated then? I run the ttrs front brakes and 300mm rear rotorwith stock caliper and I've only activated abs once, and when it came on I could feel the car not stopping near as hard before it came on. I've personally just learned about where when it comes on just avoid that area of braking.

Essentially every scenario. Not every scenario. Obviously their are exceptions. I agree with you when saying that the car doesn't stop nearly as fast with the abs activated. It also doesn't stop nearly as fast when you lock up your tires. At least with abs activating you have the ability to control steering input. It varies based on the car and the braking system, and especially between manufacturers. The ABS is also controlling your bias to keep you from locking up the brakes right off the bat as well. So even if you're not pulsing your brakes, you're still getting different output at the front and rear brakes based on the demands you're giving at the pedal.

Depending on the way the abs system works, the argument is that you have more braking input longer without ABS and therefore if you know how to control your car you have the ability to brake faster and harder in a controlled situation. 99% of people don't know how to do that. 99% of times (especially on the road) you aren't going to be able to predict when and how hard you need to brake.

I honestly don't know exactly how perfect the b5 ABS system is with user input (let me tell you, its a hell of a lot better than subaru though). I'm sure there are situations where it would be beneficial to not have it, and I'm sure that this is true to a degree in particular situations with any ABS system. The point is that 99% of the time it would be more beneficial to have it. Especially for the safety aspect.

[S4tech2]

Essentially every scenario. Not every scenario. Obviously their are exceptions. I agree with you when saying that the car doesn't stop nearly as fast with the abs activated. It also doesn't stop nearly as fast when you lock up your tires. At least with abs activating you have the ability to control steering input. It varies based on the car and the braking system, and especially between manufacturers. The ABS is also controlling your bias to keep you from locking up the brakes right off the bat as well. So even if you're not pulsing your brakes, you're still getting different output at the front and rear brakes based on the demands you're giving at the pedal.

Depending on the way the abs system works, the argument is that you have more braking input longer without ABS and therefore if you know how to control your car you have the ability to brake faster and harder in a controlled situation. 99% of people don't know how to do that. 99% of times (especially on the road) you aren't going to be able to predict when and how hard you need to brake.

I honestly don't know exactly how perfect the b5 ABS system is with user input (let me tell you, its a hell of a lot better than subaru though). I'm sure there are situations where it would be beneficial to not have it, and I'm sure that this is true to a degree in particular situations with any ABS system. The point is that 99% of the time it would be more beneficial to have it. Especially for the safety aspect.

I see what you're saying. I didn't reslize the abs modified bias depending on the braking situation. Also for the spec Miata thing I didn't know the earlier cars didn't have it, it makes more sense now because I thought it was just more of a "driver enhancer" thing.

[Trb1]

I see what you're saying. I didn't reslize the abs modified bias depending on the braking situation. Also for the spec Miata thing I didn't know the earlier cars didn't have it, it makes more sense now because I thought it was just more of a "driver enhancer" thing.

Yeah, it 100% modifies bias. It's not as apparent with a bigger front brake setup. My abs module is bad and I run 17z calipers up front and stockers in the back and only feel the rears start to lock up if i catch a bump or brake like an idiot in a corner. It is much more noticeable (and scary) with stock calipers all around.

[spacecadet]

abs = good.
relocation would be trivial with about 56 feet of line, a flaring tool, and a bunch of fittings.

[audacity]

uh drive your car without abs for 2 days and you'll know how to drive it. abs is a luxury and is not needed...

[spacecadet]

Why remove and existing system, that will empirically lower the safety of the vehicle?

[Trb1]

uh drive your car without abs for 2 days and you'll know how to drive it. abs is a luxury and is not needed...

Yeah. Really slow and potentially sideways and then into a tree because your rear brakes lock up on a dime. It's ignorant to suggest that ABS isn't needed. Especially without adjusting bias via a manual valve.

[Tiluleshpingen]

another thread bump... What are the fitting thread sizes for our cars (S4)?\ that come off the master cylinder, with ESP and with out ESP?
I am also trying to relocate mine in the false fire wall but dont have any line at all

[Timtheguru]

Yeah. Really slow and potentially sideways and then into a tree because your rear brakes lock up on a dime. It's ignorant to suggest that ABS isn't needed. Especially without adjusting bias via a manual valve.

2nd, ABS for the B5S4 is not a luxury, it's part of the braking system allowing for control of bias..

[Alex44]

i had a pants shitting terrifying experience with the rears locking up due to no abs. well i have it but the module is broken so im going to try and open it, no way im spending 1400$ on a new module. i actually found a abs module BRAND NEW for 300$ but its the version for cars without esp and mine has esp (which i removed the fuse for), wondering if i can rewire my harness connector to make it work

[Timtheguru]

i had a pants shitting terrifying experience with the rears locking up due to no abs. well i have it but the module is broken so im going to try and open it, no way im spending 1400$ on a new module. i actually found a abs module BRAND NEW for 300$ but its the version for cars without esp and mine has esp (which i removed the fuse for), wondering if i can rewire my harness connector to make it work

Are you sure your abs module with esp is broken?

I remember modulemasters being able to repair the non-esp, but if you have an esp module, then it could be ok. You should put the fuse back in for esp and see if the rears locking up goes away.

They mention it could be another module that has failed:


"The Bosch Solenoid Pack is part of the Bosch 5.3 ESP (Electronic Stability Program) System. It is bolted directly to the hydraulic control unit, and because it contains only solenoids, seldom ever fails. The solenoid pack is hardwired to the hydraulic pump motor and has a 15-pin connector.

The source of most failures is the control module located behind the glove box or under the rear seat. This is the module you’ll need to replace. Unfortunately, we cannot repair it either."

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/sh...ules/bosch-50/

[Tiluleshpingen]

another thread bump... What are the fitting thread sizes for our cars (S4)?\ that come off the master cylinder, with ESP and with out ESP?
I am also trying to relocate mine in the false fire wall but dont have any line at all

holy shit now one is going to read this?

[cinesnow]

Hi guys,

Havent been online in a while and saw this thread and the shoutouts so I thought i'd represent the s4/rs4 section and share some of my experiences.

First, if you wanna relocate your abs, I can't help.
Second, I like what trb1 said. 99% of people arent intimately familiar with their cars and this is a really important thing to understand if you do decide to remove the abs unit. This was the first abs car i personally owned so naturally I wanted to get rid of it for about the first 6 years of ownership. Besides the prop valve, your pad compound and bedding them in properly is the next thing to be mindful of. I perfer not having abs for two reasons, adjustable bias & the ability to use different pad compounds for street vs track setups. Porterfield makes the best damn street pad iv'e used and gives a very nice, progressive engagement - kind of like the opposite of a turbo spooling up. The benefit is that they perform nearly the same cold as they do at temperature and the deeper you go the more you get. They are easily capeable of dropping around 20-25mph in a second when threshold braking around 80-90% When i had the abs unit in the car, i couldn't use the pedal as deep as without. In certain circumstances, like turn 4 at willow springs ive unexpectedly gotten a foot full of abs when trail braking and it is no fun. But then again neither is chording a tire from locking up a wheel...

I'm gearing up to build another car like my black one and will possibly look into something more exotic like a pedal box combonatin with a staging brake but here was my first one which works perfectly even now,

Routing:
master to ?/-3fittings - prop valve (top)
prop valve to linelock/turning brake/rear calipers (far left, bottom of prop valve)
prop valve to front brakes (middle and right port, bottom of prop valve)

Tilu, i'll measure the master to -3 adapter tomorrow and let you know what it is.




Sent from my iPad using Audizine

[Tiluleshpingen]

Hi guys,

Havent been online in a while and saw this thread and the shoutouts so I thought i'd represent the s4/rs4 section and share some of my experiences.

First, if you wanna relocate your abs, I can't help.
Second, I like what trb1 said. 99% of people arent intimately familiar with their cars and this is a really important thing to understand if you do decide to remove the abs unit. This was the first abs car i personally owned so naturally I wanted to get rid of it for about the first 6 years of ownership. Besides the prop valve, your pad compound and bedding them in properly is the next thing to be mindful of. I perfer not having abs for two reasons, adjustable bias & the ability to use different pad compounds for street vs track setups. Porterfield makes the best damn street pad iv'e used and gives a very nice, progressive engagement - kind of like the opposite of a turbo spooling up. The benefit is that they perform nearly the same cold as they do at temperature and the deeper you go the more you get. They are easily capeable of dropping around 20-25mph in a second when threshold braking around 80-90% When i had the abs unit in the car, i couldn't use the pedal as deep as without. In certain circumstances, like turn 4 at willow springs ive unexpectedly gotten a foot full of abs when trail braking and it is no fun. But then again neither is chording a tire from locking up a wheel...

I'm gearing up to build another car like my black one and will possibly look into something more exotic like a pedal box combonatin with a staging brake but here was my first one which works perfectly even now,

Routing:
master to ?/-3fittings - prop valve (top)
prop valve to linelock/turning brake/rear calipers (far left, bottom of prop valve)
prop valve to front brakes (middle and right port, bottom of prop valve)

Tilu, i'll measure the master to -3 adapter tomorrow and let you know what it is.




Sent from my iPad using Audizine

would greatly appreciated cinesnow as i dont have the lines them self or the tools to measure at the moment
or you can point me out to the ones you have on your car

[cinesnow]

I have access to the machines, inventory and the staff at paragon performance for just these types of tasks. if your'e not in too much of a hurry i could replicate an extra set over the next few weeks if you use the same prop valve, otherwise i'd be happy to share the exact specs and lenghts.
I should add that I cut off the original lines for the front brakes and re-flared tham with the sa fittings the prop valve came with instead of the factory metric stuff.

[Alex44]

Are you sure your abs module with esp is broken?

I remember modulemasters being able to repair the non-esp, but if you have an esp module, then it could be ok. You should put the fuse back in for esp and see if the rears locking up goes away.

They mention it could be another module that has failed:


"The Bosch Solenoid Pack is part of the Bosch 5.3 ESP (Electronic Stability Program) System. It is bolted directly to the hydraulic control unit, and because it contains only solenoids, seldom ever fails. The solenoid pack is hardwired to the hydraulic pump motor and has a 15-pin connector.

The source of most failures is the control module located behind the glove box or under the rear seat. This is the module you’ll need to replace. Unfortunately, we cannot repair it either."

https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/sh...ules/bosch-50/

thanks! thats some very useful info, guess i cant fix the module (if it is actually broken) if those guys cant.. hm need to do some more digging around i had no idea there was a module behind the glove box. The code im getting is 00302 - ABS solenoid valve relay (j106)

[Tiluleshpingen]

I have access to the machines, inventory and the staff at paragon performance for just these types of tasks. if your'e not in too much of a hurry i could replicate an extra set over the next few weeks if you use the same prop valve, otherwise i'd be happy to share the exact specs and lenghts.
I should add that I cut off the original lines for the front brakes and re-flared tham with the sa fittings the prop valve came with instead of the factory metric stuff.

am planing of keeping the abs .. the trouble am heaving is that i dont have any lines and dont know the specs of them. i had some lines laying around but the fitting was too small i dont know if there is a difference between Esp and non eps abs m0dules in the fitting aspect. if the price is reasonable then why not but first i want to know how far the abs is going to sit from the master cylinder (thinking no more then 10 inches)

[Timtheguru]

thanks! thats some very useful info, guess i cant fix the module (if it is actually broken) if those guys cant.. hm need to do some more digging around i had no idea there was a module behind the glove box. The code im getting is 00302 - ABS solenoid valve relay (j106)

Put the fuse back in, clear the codes, and see if it comes back.

[fleener22]

I ended up just relocating mine was really easy if you have the right tools




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tiluleshpingen]

I ended up just relocating mine was really easy if you have the right tools




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That actually looks pretty easy and good.. thanx this will help me out also
did have to do any modification the the abs harness? and wher did you mount the module on the chassis or false firewall

[fleener22]

That actually looks pretty easy and good.. thanx this will help me out also
did have to do any modification the the abs harness? and wher did you mount the module on the chassis or false firewall

No modification to harness and it's a custom bracket I made on the false firewall


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[landfill]

If the ABS was so important why did early c4 urs4 come with an ABS switch that allows you to turn the ABS on & off. It's literally right above the radio and says antilock brakes. B3 & B4 Coupe quattros have the button as well.

[Alex44]

Put the fuse back in, clear the codes, and see if it comes back.

ok did this and now i get the code
01542 - Yaw Rate Sensor (G202): Electrical Fault in Circuit

isnt that the esp sensor under rear seats?

[replica_rs4]

ok did this and now i get the code
01542 - Yaw Rate Sensor (G202): Electrical Fault in Circuit

isnt that the esp sensor under rear seats?

Its a module behind steering wheel. Try calibrating first. There is a procedure on Ross tech site.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Alex44]

oh my god THANK YOU tim and replica_rs4 for putting me in the right direction. No more beeping and abs light/esp/hand brake light are all gone now after putting the fuses back in for esp and then calibrating the steering wheel with vag

[oppositelock]

If the ABS was so important why did early c4 urs4 come with an ABS switch that allows you to turn the ABS on & off. It's literally right above the radio and says antilock brakes. B3 & B4 Coupe quattros have the button as well.

IIRC that was for use in very slippery conditions, like snow on ice, where you would actually stop faster locking the wheels and building up a pile of snow in front of each tire.