Control Arms Whats the Difference?

[JKCutler3]

I've read the S-Line are stiffer than stock A4 but not as stiff as S4? Is this correct?

Whats the difference between OEM, FEBI, MEYLE and 034 if the FEBI fit the S4 also?

I'm not going to drop ride height anytime soon, but want to stiffen up the suspension. Front Upper bushings are worn and first to be replaced.

[jacobsen]

Mayle HD are best. 034 are schtiffies and Febi are knockoff

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[5ktq]

I think original is probably lemforder or trw

febi and meyle products are kind of across the board.. some german but a lot turkish, chinese.

Although even first rate outfits like lemforder are having more chinese things now.

[jacobsen]

Yeah lemforter is best but man you gonnna spend child...you gonna spennd...

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[Kevin C]

My thread on updating standard upper arms to S4 bushings.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11331051

I have had the German made Febi kit for more than a year. So far so good.

[BumblebVR6]

I have the 034 density line kit with their adjustable upper control arms. Feels smooth like oem but bushing are beefier from what's advertised.

[5ktq]

My thread on updating standard upper arms to S4 bushings.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11331051

I have had the German made Febi kit for more than a year. So far so good.

Dude that's the problem with febi and meyle I was talking about. They changed their names to febi GERMANY and Meyle GERMANY. The GERMANY on the CAs means nothing, it's just the brand - and pretty disingenuous. The box will have a sticker saying where it was actually made though.

I got a febi trans mount a while back:

Mount itself says febi GERMANY and nothing else.
Top (main) box label says febi Germany
small sticker on bottom of box says made in china.

edit: derp, I see we had the same conversation in the thread you linked. I can't remember things anymore.

Anyway moral of the story is meyle and febi are decent parts in general, still have some german production but some is not, so buyer beware. Their german stuff is near first rate, and world sourced is probably best you can get for not european made.

I just get let down when I spend extra for german part and get a chinese one, even if it's better quality / qc than shit-tier parts like 'uro' or 'mtc'. I guess my concern is that their chinese sourced parts are made in the same plant as low-tier ones, and they charge extra for that 'GERMANY' and former name weight.

[Spike00513]

I've read the S-Line are stiffer than stock A4 but not as stiff as S4? Is this correct?

Whats the difference between OEM, FEBI, MEYLE and 034 if the FEBI fit the S4 also?

I'm not going to drop ride height anytime soon, but want to stiffen up the suspension. Front Upper bushings are worn and first to be replaced.

I saw an official Audi document that said this too, at least the first part, S-line being stiffer than normal.
IDK about S4. Didn't someone install S4 bushings though?
edit: looks like yes

And you seem to be talking about large front, inner, upper.

Just a note, don't forget about the tiny one that the shock/strut mounts onto. Weight goes on it. And at least for the FCP kit, maybe it is soft, and if you plan to install such a thing, I heard it's a good idea to order something heavier duty, maybe Meyle HD, which could be stiffer (so it doesn't sag with mileage) that should be cheap, $8/ea or something. Yes, it adds steps/complication, unless you're the lucky few who have a garage and a hydraulic shop press in it, where you can take your time and set the bushing to the right depth, if that's even how its done. My point is that since it's your own personal car, you've got a big interest in taking care and trying to make sure things are done right.

[Axis]

Meyle HD used to be good, now its not.

Lemfoerder for me.

[jacobsen]

I thought about this for quite a while. If I was to do it all over again I would either do what I did which is good but stiff. It's taking awhile for it to loosen up. Or I would probably go with the lemforder.

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[Spike00513]

I thought about this for quite a while. If I was to do it all over again I would either do what I did which is good but stiff. It's taking awhile for it to loosen up. Or I would probably go with the lemforder.

I guess not too stiff, could that be such a thing? Because someone did find black poly eBay ones for cheap, there was a thread some months ago.
There is also Powerflex, but I heard these suspension geometries dont play well with poly and that it's rubber for a reason. Or that the poly is subject to such force, and because it may not have any give, would just tear.

As for NVH transmitted to the driver, I wonder.
Because a lot of it, I bet, is coming from the spring and damper, connecting the wheel to the road, no matter what.
Then again, I can't discount control arms, because they hold the wheel up/straight.

Haven't even mentioned spherical bearings

and 034 has Density Line

https://store.034motorsport.com/cont...a4-s4-rs4.html

I mention this because OP says "stiffen suspension" - well, like how? Everything plays a part. All the other bushings and pads, the kind of spring(s) and dampers.
Maybe. Like more crisp?
I'm currently on stock parts, and can see torn rubber when peeking in the fender well.
and the front end feels like crap. Vague, I dont really know what's going on. And they probably move under load.
Basically if I turn the SW right, I just hope the wheels copy that in some general sort of way. It works technically, I guess.

[JKCutler3]

Anyway moral of the story is meyle and febi are decent parts in general, still have some german production but some is not, so buyer beware. Their german stuff is near first rate, and world sourced is probably best you can get for not european made.

I just get let down when I spend extra for german part and get a chinese one, even if it's better quality / qc than shit-tier parts like 'uro' or 'mtc'. I guess my concern is that their chinese sourced parts are made in the same plant as low-tier ones, and they charge extra for that 'GERMANY' and former name weight.

Yea but how do you make sure to get their good stuff?? Maybe I should make some a phone call to see if I can get an answer.

I saw an official Audi document that said this too, at least the first part, S-line being stiffer than normal.
IDK about S4. Didn't someone install S4 bushings though?
edit: looks like yes

And you seem to be talking about large front, inner, upper.

Just a note, don't forget about the tiny one that the shock/strut mounts onto. Weight goes on it. And at least for the FCP kit, maybe it is soft, and if you plan to install such a thing, I heard it's a good idea to order something heavier duty, maybe Meyle HD, which could be stiffer (so it doesn't sag with mileage) that should be cheap, $8/ea or something. Yes, it adds steps/complication, unless you're the lucky few who have a garage and a hydraulic shop press in it, where you can take your time and set the bushing to the right depth, if that's even how its done. My point is that since it's your own personal car, you've got a big interest in taking care and trying to make sure things are done right.

Which is why I want something that is quality but mid priced. I don't want to replace them again.

I thought about this for quite a while. If I was to do it all over again I would either do what I did which is good but stiff. It's taking awhile for it to loosen up. Or I would probably go with the lemforder.

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Sounds like highest quality on the market.

Listed at $772 for the whole kit I will probably with something in the $500 range. Meyle at $440, if better quality why is Febi $495. The struggle is real. haha I just dont think I could spend the extra cash on Lemforder. I'd rather spend it on red tops and plugs. haha

[jacobsen]

You can either get the 03 for Street density or you can get the lemforder and I would go with the lymph order because it's going to save you time and hassle in the long run. You don't know what you're getting with the feby and the maley.

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[JKCutler3]

You can either get the 03 for Street density or you can get the lemforder and I would go with the lymph order because it's going to save you time and hassle in the long run. You don't know what you're getting with the feby and the maley.

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03
it is.

[Kevin C]

You can either get the 03 for Street density or you can get the lemforder and I would go with the lymph order because it's going to save you time and hassle in the long run. You don't know what you're getting with the feby and the maley.

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I got the Febi kit and the arms were all made in Germany. So now you know what your getting. I took that kit and upgraded the bushing on the uppers to the S4 style. One year in and they are all good. The 03 kit says its for the S4 but does not appear to have the correct S4 upper bushings. https://store.034motorsport.com/cont...a4-s4-rs4.html

[JKCutler3]

So I got these off of Craigslist. I was getting ready to install them when I noticed they're definitely different. Both for the right side, but one is smooth, the other has a grainy finish. And the logos are presented differently. You can also see Germany on one of the bushings but not the other. Wondering if the one that doesn't say Germany is lower quality?








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[jacobsen]

Maybe hd or lemforter or 034 whichever is best price maybe... Maybe one is just newer and they changed the way they manufacture them now?

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[diztek]

buy nice or buy twice. i bought febi's, then after 1 year it started making creaking noises. replaced them with trw and never looked back.

[Nollywood]

Personally, you can't beat OEM.

My 2000 B5 Quattro was still solid on the originals at 135,000 miles, so they do last a long time.

For my B6, I'm going with genuine B7 RS4 lower arms. And yeah, from Audi direct, no third party crap. The ride will be firm, yet compliant.

[itsmatt33]

Mayle HD are best. 034 are schtiffies and Febi are knockoff

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this

[g huns]

Hope Febi's suspension components are better quality than their water pumps.

[diztek]

Hope Febi's suspension components are better quality than their water pumps.

they are not.

[oaybar007]

The rubber components on my oem Lemforder arms are just about done all around, uppers and lowers. I'm at 139k mileage. I'm going to go with the Meyle HD kit as well. It seems to be well liked and falls in the quality-at-a-reasonable price category.

[jacobsen]

Yeah but lemforter are the best best.

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[JKCutler3]

Yeah but lemforter are the best best.

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On RMEuropean.Com Lemforder uppers are $45 each. HERE

[DJHoro]

I went with Fcp Euro Uppers and replaced bushings with new whiteline ones. Bushings where under 40$ from Auto Anything shipped with a discount code. Planning on installing with Coilovers in the coming weeks. Waiting on my 034 top hat bushings but they are back ordered.

[G-Ride]

Yeah but lemforter are the best best.

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If I had my time again, I'd go down the lemfoerder path. I bought a febi kit about 3 years ago and they are horrible. Terrible noises come from them when turning, when the weather hot the rubber is noisy.
I'll replace them at some point with Lems.

[tHatOne guY]

Lems next time for sure.

Used the FCP option3 kit 25k miles ago and the car doesn't seem to track straight like it did before the control arm change.

[jacobsen]

For the record I like my 034 Street density complete control arm kit it was a good price. They're more firm and they don't take up as much slack so they transmit more through themselves. It all comes down to the bushing. Thickness, density, material, and I think old gangster once said that the lemforder have a Teflon lubricating Puck inside? I'm not sure if the others do?

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[crazyquik22023]

You can either get the 03 for Street density or you can get the lemforder and I would go with the lymph order because it's going to save you time and hassle in the long run. You don't know what you're getting with the feby and the maley.

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Mayle HD are best. 034 are schtiffies and Febi are knockoff

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Yeah but lemforter are the best best.

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For the record I like my 034 Street density complete control arm kit it was a good price. They're more firm and they don't take up as much slack so they transmit more through themselves. It all comes down to the bushing. Thickness, density, material, and I think old gangster once said that the lemforder have a Teflon lubricating Puck inside? I'm not sure if the others do?

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So in this 1 thread you have said that Mayle are the best, but then you said you don't know what you are getting with Mayle, then you said Lemfoerder are the best, then you said 034 are too stiff, then you say you like the 034. I don't think I would take your word for buying any control arms.

[jacobsen]

So in this 1 thread you have said that Mayle are the best, but then you said you don't know what you are getting with Mayle, then you said Lemfoerder are the best, then you said 034 are too stiff, then you say you like the 034. I don't think I would take your word for buying any control arms.

The maley HD are the upgrade to the standard Mayle and what I had on my car for the past fifty thousand miles. they shouldn't be a bad buy. However people are saying that they've moved manufacturing to China? And the quality isn't so great? Hmm.. The 034 Street density are stiff but so far so good on my car. I did have one prematurely fail... front right rear lower. And everyone will agree that the lemforder are the best best of the best. These three brands are all in competition with each other
1. lemforder
2. 034 street
3. Mayle HD
4. Febi don't buy!
And the only reason you would not get the lemforder is because you don't want to spend the money on them.



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[Kevin C]

I ran Febi on my B5 for five years and did lose one lower ball joint due to a bad seal.

I have had Febi on my B6 for more than a year without issue.

I did lose two Meyle tie rod ends due to a lack of grease.

[Spike00513]

For the record I like my 034 Street density complete control arm kit it was a good price. They're more firm and they don't take up as much slack so they transmit more through themselves. It all comes down to the bushing. Thickness, density, material, and I think old gangster once said that the lemforder have a Teflon lubricating Puck inside? I'm not sure if the others do?

Teflon is known to deposit a layer of transfer-film that is self lubricating. This is the first time I'm hearing of it being used like this. Interesting, I'll look into it.
This speak of "firmness" raises my curiosity. Because when I DID change CA's, it did seem more firm, crisp, feelable, and precise. Like I actually knew what the front end of the car was doing and could control it more like a scalpel carving the road. Rather than feeling wobbly, going on it's own wherever it wants under road force (the car is heavy), and basically flopping around because the bushings connecting it to the road became worn and loose.

I say this because I wonder if you having gone with street density, makes that even MORE of an effect.
Or the recent talk about people pressing in S4 bushings, or poly which I hear doesn't like B6 application and can tear.

Regardless of bushing, you still have springs and dampers doing work. I hear Koni FSD improves handling and comfort by 30% when paired with sport springs. However those still vary. '02 sport is lower and stiffer. That is the combo diagnosticator used, and someone else recently who said it's nice.
Kind of expensive though. I've only seen secondhand FSD for $350-$500 twice. Other than that, MSRP is like $800. I suppose it's not THAT bad once every 10+ years depending on factors but I'm just saying. It's not cheap.

Then, what about OTHER suspensions? various brands and models of coilover, and so on. The whole system working together.
Isn't this why race teams use spherical joints and stiff-body coilovers, so they can calculate and align suspension performance without having to worry about rubber deflection messing it up?
I don't mean to lump everything into one category though. It's apples and oranges. A rally car is not built the same way as an F1 car using pull or push-rod suspension (or do they have similarities?) - but, both are purpose-built, get rebuilt often, and cost $1M+...

Once saw a thread of a curb crashed D3 A8 where the CA's buckled first as intended by design (aluminum is a soft light metal) saving the car, so he DIY fixed it and was happy to install new Lemforder parts.

Not sure how much they cost, guess I'll look it up.
But me personally? I think my FCP kit might've tore, and I paid extra for a lifetime warranty, so maybe I can just swap in a new kit for now (hopefully get 25-30k+ mi out of it?) and wait a few more years to contemplate Lemforder, if I even still have the car by then, who knows.

[old guy]

For the record I like my 034 Street density complete control arm kit it was a good price. They're more firm and they don't take up as much slack so they transmit more through themselves. It all comes down to the bushing. Thickness, density, material, and I think old gangster once said that the lemforder have a Teflon lubricating Puck inside? I'm not sure if the others do?

All of the ball joints have a liner. None of them are metal on metal anymore. That's pretty standard stuff for ball joints.

[coffeysm]

I bought a set from FCP ~2 years ago and the other day I noticed there were some stress cracks on the bushings.

[Chemmie]

I bought a set from FCP ~2 years ago and the other day I noticed there were some stress cracks on the bushings.

But what set did you buy? It'd help those of us who are deciding whether to replace a couple control arms or just buy the entire front end kit.
2
FCP has Meyle HD and Lemforder kits. The Meyle price @$460 USD is agreeable, considering just the 4 rearward/frontward front lower CA's are about $100 CAD each. I can't see spending $1000 on just a front kit for a $4000 car, especially since the OEM parts lasted only 170k kms.

[5ktq]

I was working on my old audi a few days back. One ball joint. Doesn't handle as nice but.. one ball joint and no aluminium

[Chemmie]

Can anyone shed light on the above question re: Meyle HD Ball Joint Kit? Will it last at least as long as the stock parts?

I did my CVT fluid today and the passenger side seriously needs both lowers.

[Chemmie]

Can anyone shed light on the above question re: Meyle HD Ball Joint Kit? Will it last at least as long as the stock parts?

I did my CVT fluid today and the passenger side seriously needs both lowers. I'm apt to trust what Oaybar said above and just order the HD kit.

[jacobsen]

The jury is not out.... Lemforder is the best of the best. Mayle HD is a replacement to original design which is I think a good sign to revise their part.... get the one in your budget and report back in the future

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