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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
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    S4 timing guides

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    Has anybody ever had any luck with replacing just the plastic guides to cure a start up chain rattle?

    I have a lower mileage car (58k) which very briefly, less than 0.5secs, rattles on a cold startup

    I'm wondering due to the low mileage whether it is necessary to change parts which could theoretically last another 100k miles

    I understand I may need to pull the engine twice (worst case) using this method but it seems a little excessive to blanket change everything

    Also has the Rs4 timing guide 059109469f been well proven in the S4 to replace ours which commonly fails?

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings badger.'s Avatar
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    Mar 31 2014
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    My Garage
    '18 RS3 | '05 S4 Avant
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    KY

    IMO people replace everything because it is peanuts compared to the work involved in getting access. Is it a little excessive? Probably. But not completely illogical.

    If you want to spend hundreds or thousands to pull the motor to replace that one $50 part, go for it. In all likelihood you'd be fine for another 100k. You may even be fine for another 100k without doing anything. There are cars that reach 160k miles or more on all stock guides. On the other hand, for all the guides and tensioners back there you spend maybe ~$600-800 total. Throw in the mechanical adjusters with a known wear issue and you are up to maybe $1600ish in parts.


    So the decision you need to make after either shelling out $3-4k+ in labor for a shop to pull the motor or 2-3 days of your own sweat, are you going to do all that work and do zero additional preventative maintenance? Or spend that extra $500-1500 and know everything is new and much more likely to last that 100k+ additional miles?


    The mechanical adjusters will wear out eventually but those might be good for 100k more (this is why jhm intermediate is is so popular, you get the guides, tensioners, and new adjusters). The chains are often not replaced. I agree, the metal tensioners themselves probably don't need much attention other than perhaps refreshing the orings. Alternatively, like I mentioned above, you could run another 100k miles without changing anything. It all comes down to your personal risk tolerance and finances I suppose.
    '18 RS3 Glacier White: DS1 Stg 2 | Wagner EVO1 IC | 034 4" Turbo Inlet | 034 4" Intake
    '05 S4 Avant Brilliant Red: JHM Tune | JHMv1 Headers | Fast Intentions Catback | Ported IM & Spacers | JHM LWCP | JHM ATF Cooler | Thor Skid Plate | Koni Yellows | Apikol Rear Diff | JHM LW Rotors | AudioQ 1200D w/Dual 10" CVRs

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings gcoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 06 2009
    AZ Member #
    40835
    My Garage
    2005 B6 S4 6mt Avant & 2001 B5 S4 6mt Avant (Sold) & 2007 VW Passat 3.6 4Mo wagon
    Location
    Boise Id

    ^^ Totally correct. It is a lot of work to get to the guides. Do it right and get another 100k miles

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 05 2015
    AZ Member #
    359932
    My Garage
    2005 Audi Allroad 2.7 Biturbo V6, 2000 Lexus 2JZGE GS300 and my old skate board
    Location
    Billings, MT

    I have a guy on Face book who is an OEM dealer that is getting me cheaper prices than these as well. Hit me up if you want that info.

    FCP
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109513C $23.03
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25425 $93.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109510M $44.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25424 $88.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038634 $50.39
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038640 $62.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038635 $42.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038641 $56.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25418 $36.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109507G $47.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109469AD $27.69
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109510E $39.49
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109514B $23.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-059109469F $35.79
    Total: 674.99

    JHM
    Pair JHM Mechanical Cam Adjuster Repair Kit (PAIR) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad w/ 4.2L [JHM-079109087N-Kitpair] $750.00
    Pair Block Off Plate Kit for SAI, Secondary Air Injection Plates (JHM) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad, C6-A6 w/ 4.2L V8 [JHM-B67S4SAIBlock] $29.95 +15 for gaskets 44.95
    Total 794.95

    ECS
    2 Camshaft Hex Head Collared Bolt M12x1.25x125 Mfg Part # N91086201= 14.00
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 1-4 Mfg Part # 079109092B = 7.95
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 5-8 Mfg Part # 079109091B = 12.56
    2 Camshaft Seal Mfg Part # 079109293C = 5.26
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Left Mfg Part #079131120A = 10.36
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Right Mfg Part # 079131120 = 13.02
    1 Lower Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Center Mfg Part #079109139M = 4.32
    10 Hexagon Socket Head Bolt - Mfg Part #N10156205 = 9.90
    4 O-Ring 5x1.5 o-ring Mfg Part #N90638402 x4 = 4.00
    Total: 81.37

    Total 1551.31

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Feb 12 2017
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    Forgot to say that I would be removing the lump myself and carrying out the timing chain work

    I understand if you were paying labour to do the job why you'd replace everything

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings roboto_1337's Avatar
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    Jul 05 2016
    AZ Member #
    375740
    My Garage
    B7 S4 6MT, Porsche 958.2
    Location
    Ontario, Canada

    Have you replaced the oil check valves in the valley pan? sometimes cures the issue, that being said there is that one guide that always breaks. I have read that the B6 is more susceptible than the B7 but nevertheless both are prone to failure at some point in the vehicle's life.

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 15 2014
    AZ Member #
    264387
    Location
    Cape Breton Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry.Reese View Post
    I have a guy on Face book who is an OEM dealer that is getting me cheaper prices than these as well. Hit me up if you want that info.

    FCP
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109513C $23.03
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25425 $93.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109510M $44.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25424 $88.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038634 $50.39
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038640 $62.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038635 $42.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038641 $56.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25418 $36.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109507G $47.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109469AD $27.69
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109510E $39.49
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109514B $23.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-059109469F $35.79
    Total: 674.99

    JHM
    Pair JHM Mechanical Cam Adjuster Repair Kit (PAIR) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad w/ 4.2L [JHM-079109087N-Kitpair] $750.00
    Pair Block Off Plate Kit for SAI, Secondary Air Injection Plates (JHM) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad, C6-A6 w/ 4.2L V8 [JHM-B67S4SAIBlock] $29.95 +15 for gaskets 44.95
    Total 794.95

    ECS
    2 Camshaft Hex Head Collared Bolt M12x1.25x125 Mfg Part # N91086201= 14.00
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 1-4 Mfg Part # 079109092B = 7.95
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 5-8 Mfg Part # 079109091B = 12.56
    2 Camshaft Seal Mfg Part # 079109293C = 5.26
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Left Mfg Part #079131120A = 10.36
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Right Mfg Part # 079131120 = 13.02
    1 Lower Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Center Mfg Part #079109139M = 4.32
    10 Hexagon Socket Head Bolt - Mfg Part #N10156205 = 9.90
    4 O-Ring 5x1.5 o-ring Mfg Part #N90638402 x4 = 4.00
    Total: 81.37

    Total 1551.31
    Is this everything you need or ?

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 05 2015
    AZ Member #
    359932
    My Garage
    2005 Audi Allroad 2.7 Biturbo V6, 2000 Lexus 2JZGE GS300 and my old skate board
    Location
    Billings, MT

    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphin S4 View Post
    Is this everything you need or ?
    Got someone i am getting 98%of the for OEM for cheaper than this list. Not doing adjusters if i don't have to.

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Three Rings 0396's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 10 2005
    AZ Member #
    5211
    Location
    L A

    Every time I read up on these timing advice, my poor mind keeps spinning. If I go OEM, what do I really need to get , less actual timing chain. I see people mention certain seals and the need for new bolts vs others don't mention it at all. I'm afraid that when the time comes, the shop might or might not replace all those...especially all you know is they say " yes we replace all necessary " parts. I guess I can request all the old parts..but.

    Just thinking out loud. OP, good luck.
    0396

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 05 2015
    AZ Member #
    359932
    My Garage
    2005 Audi Allroad 2.7 Biturbo V6, 2000 Lexus 2JZGE GS300 and my old skate board
    Location
    Billings, MT

    That list i posted includes the upgraded RS4 lower guide as well.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings ILVTRANCE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 19 2012
    AZ Member #
    106098
    Location
    New York

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry.Reese View Post
    I have a guy on Face book who is an OEM dealer that is getting me cheaper prices than these as well. Hit me up if you want that info.

    FCP
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109513C $23.03
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25425 $93.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109510M $44.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25424 $88.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038634 $50.39
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038640 $62.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038635 $42.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain 50038641 $56.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner FEB-25418 $36.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Tensioner VAG-079109507G $47.09
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109469AD $27.69
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109510E $39.49
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-079109514B $23.99
    1 Engine Timing Chain Guide VAG-059109469F $35.79
    Total: 674.99

    JHM
    Pair JHM Mechanical Cam Adjuster Repair Kit (PAIR) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad w/ 4.2L [JHM-079109087N-Kitpair] $750.00
    Pair Block Off Plate Kit for SAI, Secondary Air Injection Plates (JHM) for B6-B7 S4, C5-allroad, C6-A6 w/ 4.2L V8 [JHM-B67S4SAIBlock] $29.95 +15 for gaskets 44.95
    Total 794.95

    ECS
    2 Camshaft Hex Head Collared Bolt M12x1.25x125 Mfg Part # N91086201= 14.00
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 1-4 Mfg Part # 079109092B = 7.95
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Cylinders 5-8 Mfg Part # 079109091B = 12.56
    2 Camshaft Seal Mfg Part # 079109293C = 5.26
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Left Mfg Part #079131120A = 10.36
    1 Cam Chain Tensioner Gasket - Right Mfg Part # 079131120 = 13.02
    1 Lower Timing Chain Tensioner Gasket - Center Mfg Part #079109139M = 4.32
    10 Hexagon Socket Head Bolt - Mfg Part #N10156205 = 9.90
    4 O-Ring 5x1.5 o-ring Mfg Part #N90638402 x4 = 4.00
    Total: 81.37

    Total 1551.31
    who is your guy? If I can source the parts cheaper i need to let my mechanic know to see if this will help me bill wise
    2014 SQ5 P+ | 034 Stage 2 ECU + TCU | 034 190mm crank pully | 034 Street Density motor mounts | 034Motorsport S34 Carbon Fiber Intake | Merc Racing HX V3 | Bilstein B8's w/ H&R Springs | 034 Trans insert | RSNAV 10.25
    NEW EDM MIX APRIL 2021 https://soundcloud.com/matt-scheinwa...in-my-basement

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 05 2015
    AZ Member #
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    My Garage
    2005 Audi Allroad 2.7 Biturbo V6, 2000 Lexus 2JZGE GS300 and my old skate board
    Location
    Billings, MT

    Quote Originally Posted by ILVTRANCE View Post
    who is your guy? If I can source the parts cheaper i need to let my mechanic know to see if this will help me bill wise
    PM'd you.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 05 2015
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    2005 Audi Allroad 2.7 Biturbo V6, 2000 Lexus 2JZGE GS300 and my old skate board
    Location
    Billings, MT

    Quote Originally Posted by ILVTRANCE View Post
    who is your guy? If I can source the parts cheaper i need to let my mechanic know to see if this will help me bill wise
    Also 059109469E replaces 079109469AD

  14. #14
    Senior Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 13 2014
    AZ Member #
    263852
    My Garage
    1997BMWZ3
    Location
    Daly City,CA United States

    Surprisingly the rs4 guide is cheaper than the oem guide on fcp euro... I chuckled a bit when I saw that. Oh typical audi

  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings Dirtracer603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 15 2012
    AZ Member #
    98717
    My Garage
    Custom stunt CRF250 supermoto, 06 CBR600rr
    Location
    Fredericksburg, Va

    It's not necessarily the guides that are the problem but the tensioners instead. If the faulty tensioners wouldn't let the chain smack against the guides then the guides wouldn't fail. Also, you would still get chain rattle if you only replaced the guide too. Get the JHM minimal kit installed and you'll be good to go. It's less than $1,000.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Feb 12 2017
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    South UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtracer603 View Post
    It's not necessarily the guides that are the problem but the tensioners instead. If the faulty tensioners wouldn't let the chain smack against the guides then the guides wouldn't fail. Also, you would still get chain rattle if you only replaced the guide too. Get the JHM minimal kit installed and you'll be good to go. It's less than $1,000.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app
    Leave the chains?

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Senior Member Three Rings Dirtracer603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 15 2012
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    My Garage
    Custom stunt CRF250 supermoto, 06 CBR600rr
    Location
    Fredericksburg, Va

    Quote Originally Posted by S4Marc View Post
    Leave the chains?

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Yes leave the chains, many people with well over 100k miles are replacing the guides/tensioners while leaving the existing chains and you dont even have 60k...chains on these cars are solid, regardless of miles.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app

  18. #18
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtracer603 View Post
    Yes leave the chains, many people with well over 100k miles are replacing the guides/tensioners while leaving the existing chains and you dont even have 60k...chains on these cars are solid, regardless of miles.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app
    Could I assume so long as I keep the chains on all the cogs and mark them to be sure I won't need the timing tools if I leave the chains?

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings Dirtracer603's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 15 2012
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    My Garage
    Custom stunt CRF250 supermoto, 06 CBR600rr
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4Marc View Post
    Could I assume so long as I keep the chains on all the cogs and mark them to be sure I won't need the timing tools if I leave the chains?

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    I imagine if you thoroughly marked everything and didnt have to take the sprockets off the camshafts that you can do everything without timing tools, but you might want to confirm this. I happen to have a brand new timing tool kit that I only used 1 part out of and maybe be willing to rent out or sell if you need it.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app

  20. #20
    Established Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtracer603 View Post
    I imagine if you thoroughly marked everything and didnt have to take the sprockets off the camshafts that you can do everything without timing tools, but you might want to confirm this. I happen to have a brand new timing tool kit that I only used 1 part out of and maybe be willing to rent out or sell if you need it.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Audizine mobile app
    Appreciate your offer but imagine the postage would be cost prohibitive to Blighty

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Four Rings roboto_1337's Avatar
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    Jul 05 2016
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    B7 S4 6MT, Porsche 958.2
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    Ontario, Canada

    Hi Terry,

    sent you a PM looking to get in touch with your guy for some timing parts.

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