Throttle Actuator Error

[IceQB]

Audi A4 B6 1.8T Avant

Throttle body not being aligned.
Getting the following error in VCDS:
17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338)
P1579 - 001 Adaptation Not Started

Gives same/similar error on the VW/Audi software at dealer.

Throttle Body will only aligned once this error is removed.
When ignition is turned to ON position the throttle body makes a scratching type of noise.
Have removed throttle body & cleaned with carb cleaner.
Still not working.
I have tested current on plug to throttle body.
- Pin #2 to Ground gives me recommended 5V.
- Pin #2 to #6 gives me recommended 5V.
Also done continuity of wires from plug to ECU & they check out fine.

Car starts but dies seconds after that. When unplugging the Mass Airflow Meter/Sensor car idles fine & can drive, but i'm guessing it will be heavier on fuel.

Any one have any ideas of what I can do to fix?

[IceQB]

No ideas...?
Also forgot to mention ESP light stays on, but im guessing thats due to MAF being disconnected.

[naysay15]

Unhook ur battery. Touch the two terminals with a jumper. It should clear the tb error code.
The TB will not align till there's no codes stored.

[IceQB]

@naysay15 Will that not set ECU to default values?

[naysay15]

Yeah but that's what u want. U will not be able adapt ur tb unless ur ecu is code-free.

[IceQB]

Will give it a go in next hour or so, Thanks

[IceQB]

Tried resetting by touching terminals, error still there & cannot do TB alignment.

[IceQB]

Anyone with any other ideas?

[Pswish]

Well, basic troubleshooting is good in bad out, replace before the bad output (i.e. throttle body). By Mass Airflow Sensor are you referring to the sensor in the intake pipe or on the throttle body? to test the Mass Airflow Sensor:

1. Start engine and let run at idle.
2. In diagnostic function "33 - OBD", select "Mode 1: Checking measured values."
3. Select the desired measuring value "PID 16: Air flow quantity at Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor".
4. Specified value: 2,0 ... 4.5 g/s
5. End diagnosis and switch ignition off.

If the specified value is not reached:
• Check intake air system for leaks (false air)*
• Check voltage supply and wire connections
If the specified value is exceeded:
• Eliminate engine load via additional equipment (A/C system/power-assisted steering/alternator).
• Check voltage supply and wire connections

From AllDataDIY.com

[IceQB]

Well, basic troubleshooting is good in bad out, replace before the bad output (i.e. throttle body).

Is the Throttle Body broken? This i haven't determined yet or no one has given any indication of such. Been trying to get hold of a Throttle Body to plug in & test but haven't had any luck yet getting one before going to the replace route which is a bit costly.

By Mass Airflow Sensor are you referring to the sensor in the intake pipe or on the throttle body?

MAF at intake pipe just left of turbo.

1. Start engine and let run at idle.

If you read above TB won't align so cannot idle unless MAF is removed.

[naysay15]

The TB wont align unless these conditions are met. Make sure they are.
No DTC's in the Engine Controller
Battery voltage at least 11.5 V
Throttle must be at idling position (keep your foot off the gas pedal)
Throttle body part must not be dirty (carbonized).
Coolant temperature must be between 5 and 95C
If fault codes were cleared cycle the ignition off and back on prior to running Basic Settings.

[old guy]

What happens if you plug the MAF sensor back in after the engine has been started and is at idle?

[IceQB]

The TB wont align unless these conditions are met. Make sure they are.
No DTC's in the Engine Controller
Battery voltage at least 11.5 V
Throttle must be at idling position (keep your foot off the gas pedal)
Throttle body part must not be dirty (carbonized).
Coolant temperature must be between 5 and 95C
If fault codes were cleared cycle the ignition off and back on prior to running Basic Settings.

Battery is at 12.6+V
Foot is off gas pedal (obviously)
Coolant temp at about 50C or more most times i'm testing
Just that code won't erase so adaption cannot take place.

- - - Updated - - -

What happens if you plug the MAF sensor back in after the engine has been started and is at idle?

I'll try that now & report back

[Pswish]

That is a good half step since the sensor looks like it feeds the fuel pump relay...

[IceQB]

@old guy

Did as you suggested, car started to idle high.
From 800 jumped to 1200.
Also ABS light came up as well.
Gas pedal was bit unresponsive, took it for a drive around the block & started getting better but not like it should be.
Will hook up laptop & pull codes now.

[IceQB]

Pulled codes then cleared & Throttle Actuator just returned again.
ABS cleared as well, don't know what happened there!

With MAF plugged in after starting & idling its not as responsive to gas pedal.

[old guy]

What is your MAF sensor g/s reading at idle?

[naysay15]

That is a sign of a bad maf. What is ur g reading at idle? Must be 2-4
If that code wont clear u wont be able to align the TB. Its posdible it has failed.
Pick up a junkyard unit and see.
I also have a known good tb if ur interested

- - - Updated - - -

What is your MAF sensor g/s reading at idle?

Lol. OG is fast....must been typin at the same time

[IceQB]

What is your MAF sensor g/s reading at idle?

2.0 - 2.2 g/s When plugged in after its idling.

[IceQB]

Its posdible it has failed.
Pick up a junkyard unit and see.
I also have a known good tb if ur interested

Have ben looking at scrapyards but none around or there one being stripped.
I'm guessing you in the US, i'm across the ocean in SA.

[old guy]

Auto or manual transmission? Can you also check your idle fuel trim and partial fuel trim as well as your short term trim? That would be Measuring Blocks 32 and 33.

[IceQB]

Auto or manual transmission? Can you also check your idle fuel trim and additive fuel trim as well as your short term trim?

Manual transmission.
Where would i check fuel trim in VCDS (quick google give Group 32)
Should I check it with MAF in (plugging in after idle)?

[old guy]

Manual transmission.
Where would i check fuel trim in VCDS? Should I check it with MAF in (plugging in after idle)?

Check with MAF plugged in and at idle. That would be Measuring Blocks 32 and 33. Block 32 gives the idle adjustment in % as well as the partial trim in %.

Block 33 gives the instantaneous or Short Term trim adjustment in %.

[IceQB]

Group 32 | 9.0% Adaption (Idle) | 0.0% Adaption (Partial)
Group 33 | 5.5% Lambda Control | 1.520V Sensor Voltage

[old guy]

Group 32 | 9.0% Adaption (Idle) | 0.0% Adaption (Partial)
Group 33 | 5.5% Lambda Control | 1.520V Sensor Voltage

Your MAF g/s is on the low side for a manual transmission at idle with no load. The 9% idle fuel trim is slightly high but within what's considered an acceptable range of ±10%. Your partial probably reads 0% because every time you reset your codes the fuel trims go to 0%. You need to drive the car for at least 10 minutes to get a good reading on the partial trims.

I'm going to assume your STFT (MB33) was jumping from a little above to a little below 0%.

Does the engine run good enough to run it about 10 minutes and recheck the partial trim?

Basically I'm trying to determine if you have a false air situation going on. A small leak will drop the MAF g/s at idle since all the air isn't getting metered and the fuel trims will go up a little to account for the extra air.

[IceQB]

Does the engine run good enough to run it about 10 minutes and recheck the partial trim?

Basically I'm trying to determine if you have a false air situation going on. A small leak will drop the MAF g/s since all the air isn't getting metered and the fuel trims will go up a little to account for the extra air.

With MAF plugged in it can run but feels unresponsive/sluggish.
Unfortunately the wife came to remind me we have a dinner appointment & I should leave my "little" project for the morning.
I will do a test run first thing in the morning & i'll post results for you.
You think an air leak would cause this TB problems?
Thanks for the input/help thus far everyone!!

[old guy]

With MAF plugged in it can run but feels unresponsive/sluggish.
Unfortunately the wife came to remind me we have a dinner appointment & I should leave my "little" project for the morning.
I will do a test run first thing in the morning & i'll post results for you.
You think an air leak would cause this TB problems?
Thanks for the input/help thus far everyone!!

I am struggling with the connection between the MAF and throttle body symptoms. The fact that your engine won't start with the MAF plugged in but will run if you plug it in after starting. Typically that would be an indication of a rather severe air leak somewhere. Which could still be the case. Once you have the opportunity see if you can get 10→15 minutes of drive time and recheck the fuel trims.

I mentioned that I expected the STFT to be bouncing around ± 0%. If it wasn't bouncing but just staying as a fuel add that would be an indication that the idle fuel trim wasn't through adapting yet and would eventually settle well above 10%.

Now go eat dinner!

[old guy]

I am struggling with the connection between the MAF and throttle body symptoms. The fact that your engine won't start with the MAF plugged in but will run if you plug it in after starting. Typically that would be an indication of a rather severe air leak somewhere. Which could still be the case. Once you have the opportunity see if you can get 10→15 minutes of drive time and recheck the fuel trims.

I mentioned that I expected the STFT to be bouncing around ± 0%. If it wasn't bouncing but just staying as a fuel add that would be an indication that the idle fuel trim wasn't through adapting yet and would eventually settle well above 10%.

Now go eat dinner!

Edit: Just a few more points. The instantaneous or Short Term Fuel Trim is the immediate adjustments being made by the ECU based upon feedback from the front O2 sensor. If at idle the ECU has to continue to add fuel above the base map it will start to adjust the base map up until it no longer has to continue the add. In your case the base map is adding 9% at idle. If your STFT (currently at 5%) stays above 0% the base map will continue to increase until the STFT hovers around 0%.

As I mentioned the fuel trims reset to 0% every time you clear the ECU. Once you start driving the STFT will do the same thing for the long term partial trim. Your base map is currently set at 0%. As you start driving the STFT is going to either add or subtract fuel based upon the front O2 sensor reading. If it continues to add fuel the ECU will adjust the partial trim base up until the STFT no longer has to add fuel. This takes a few minutes of driving for everything to adjust out.

This will give us an indication as to how your fueling is operating and may give us some insight as to why the TB won't reset.

[IceQB]

Sorry for late reply, but got caught up in work.
Will do what you suggested first thing in the morning. Need to find/sort this problem out & move to whatever is next....

[blitz2190]

what is the error given when trying to start the adaptation. Clear the codes and try it without turning the ecu off. I'll bet if the throttle body is actually good you need a battery charger on there, I know you said it was at 12.6v but thats at rest with no load. Put a tender on there give it a few hours and try again. The alignment proccess is incredibly picky and I just helped someone 2 weeks ago with the same problem.

[IceQB]

@blitz2190 I've hooked multimeter up to battery & set to capture min & max reading when I start engine.
It drops to 11.6-11.8 & peaks at 13.8-14.1 during starting sequence.
Should I start it with (trickle) battery charger connnected to battery?

[blitz2190]

to do the adaption you shouldn't be starting it. Also that dip to 11.6 may be happening when the adaption is starting and may fail because of it. the few times this happened to me I was able to get it to work with a high current battery charger that has the jump start option, set it to medium power which reads about 13v and let it sit for an hour and had no problem after.

[IceQB]

Think you misunderstanding.
The Volt check was done in this manner to check battery voltage.
Also if you read up error will not clear in Engine Module so adaption will not take place.
For adaption to happen no errors present in Engine Module.

[blitz2190]

if the only code is that its needs adaptation it will work. Reset using vcds, don't turn the key off, run adaptation with battery charger attached.

[IceQB]

Will give a go in the morning & report findings, thanks

[IceQB]

if the only code is that its needs adaptation it will work. Reset using vcds, don't turn the key off, run adaptation with battery charger attached.

Tried, code won't reset with battery charger connected.

[IceQB]

@old guy - Started without MAF plugged in. Idling plugged MAF in, waited 2 mins or so for it to settle. Then took for a 15min drive.
Measurements taken at idle after trip.

Group 32 | 4.3% Adaption (Idle) | 25.0% Adaption (Partial)
Group 33 | 4.7 to -5.5% Lambda Control | 1.440V to 1.580V Sensor Voltage

Mass Air Flow Sensor - 1.97g/s
Throttle Valve Angle 0.4%
Battery Voltage 13.440V
Coolant Temp 89C

[old guy]

Your idle adaptation at 4.3% is OK. According to the Bentley +/- 10% is considered a “normal” range. Your partial adaptation at 25% is not OK. The maximum partial adaptation is 25%. So that would indicate that your ECU has to add a substantial amount of fuel. Typically when you see corrections of this magnitude there is a large amount of false (non-metered) air entering from somewhere that isn’t going through the MAF sensor.

The first thing I would recommend is to perform a boost pressure test. Pay particular attention to everything between the MAF sensor and turbo inlet. A crack or split in the TIP will cause a false air condition without showing a boost leak.

Another possibility is a dirty or defective MAF sensor. But first I would eliminate a false air condition. If you don't find anything with the leak test we can move on to other possibilities.

[EuroxS4]

I know a lot of you guys have this error 17967 in vag com and it won’t clear and when you try to do a throttle body alignment it errors, so if you have this problem read on!
Step1 remove the 4 Allen studs that hold the throttle body on the intake manifold you will need to remove the vac pipe and induction pipe to.
Step2 leave the wires plugged in and remove the 6 torx that hold the protective plastic cover onto the TB and remove the plastic cover.

Step3 the problem lies in the potentiometer. on mine the clip that holds it onto the shaft had slipped down allowing the potentiometer to move far to easily I just re-positioned the clip with a screwdriver just push it up it’s a bit hard to explain without pics sorry.
Step4 hook up vag com and switch ignition on and go to engine module and set vag com to do a throttle body alignment.
Step5 now go back under the bonnet to the TB now move the potentiometer with your fingers, there are two pots in here one you can move it maybe stiff and the other is fixed we want the one behind the spring at the top its attached to a blade that will spin round the centre shaft, watch your FINGERS because the throttle body will spring open when the potentiometer hits the sweet spot.

Step6 now go back to vag com and try to clear your fault code it won’t clear yet so do a TBA again this time it should succeed now check fault code it should be gone!!!
Box your car back up and enjoy your now perfect tick over.
Notes vag com must be trying to do a TBA when you move the pot! Watch your fingers when the TB snaps open and shut! I have pictures I will try and upload later.
I did this fix on my 99 golf gti DBW but it will work on all other TB’s audi skoda seat vw.

sorry for the crappy pics.But this was done some years ago,using a really crappy camera couldnt get it to focus close enough.


Also FYI if you ever see and adaption value of 25% the maf has failed.When the bosch mafs fail they default to the maximum reading.

[IceQB]

@old guy
Will do some reading up on how to perform a leak/boost test, thanks.

@EuroxS4
My throttle body internals look quite different from the pics you've posted, so doubt your solution would work, thanks anyway - it might someone with similar TB as yours.