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  1. #1
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
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    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Performance Rail Valve, what is it and why do you need one?

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    Typically referred to as an RS4 rail limiter valve. As most know the OEM rail valves are limited to 106 or 116 bar. Why VW and Audi changed them I have no idea, but let me tell you why you need one.

    If you are running stock tune, you will not need one unless you have one that is worn out. If you are running a S1 tune or any tune that commands over 115 bar, you need a PRV (Performance Rail Valve).

    The rail limiter valve is used as a safety device, when you go over the target "crack pressure" (this is when the rail valve opens) it bleeds of fuel from the fuel rail/injectors. This additional fuel gets dumped back into the low pressure side of the fuel system and gets compressed by the high pressure fuel pump. Several people have upgraded to the RS4 valve, but this is not the best solution for your application.

    The RS4 rail valve is designed around dumping excessive fuel supply, so when it opens it dumps a larger volume than the stock or our PRV. This large dump of fuel will show a huge drop in fuel pressure, then the valve closes, the system builds pressure, then valve opens and repeats the cycle. This is not the optimal solution for a tuned car/engine. The RS4 valve had its time and place, now there are better solutions on the market.

    The tune will depend on what PRV you buy. The RS4 valve had a crack pressure of 136 bar, and it worked much better than the OEM units (see crack pressures above) on a tuned car. Problem being, it was not rated high enough for the S2 + tunes. Some S2+ tunes would target 130 to 135 bar for fuel pressure, this is only allowing 1 to 6 bar of opening protection, this is not enough. Rule of thumb when buying a PRV, go 10 to 12 bar over your target fuel pressure. So if you are commanding 130 bar, you should have a 140 to 142 bar rail limiting valve. 125 bar tune should have a 135 to 137 bar rail limiting valve.

    Why don't want to run your stock or OEM rail limiting valve? The rail limiting valve is used for over pressure control, not as a return line to your high pressure fuel pump. If you are running a 125 bar tune but have a 106 bar rail valve all that fuel is getting dumped back into the low pressure side. This can create a huge problem with heat and wear on the rail valve. When you compress the fuel over and over again it will start to build heat, that heat will then start to work its way into the surrounding items; lines, HPFP, injectors, fuel rail, ect. All this additional heat is getting put into the fuel, excessive heat in your fuel = poor cooling during injector spray event = loss in power. Not only this, but the constant opening and closing of the OEM rail limiter valve will cause irregular tune or power delivery to the drive train ( have seen this and dyno results from customers have confirmed this). Remember, the OEM valve is used for "safety" not to control your fuel system pressure. The OEM valve has a cycle life, if its consistently held open, that cycle life drops very quick.

    OK, we have talked about the RS4 valve, the OEM valve, and why you don't want to run either one of these. Now why should you run one of ours?

    1. OEM supplied part that is built for the 2.0 FSI engine (we are under contract to have the OEM MFG build these for us)
    2. Target crack pressure levels at 138 (new pressure we are adding first of the year) 142, 145 and 150 bar
    3. Proper flow control when the valve "cracks"/opens
    4. Testing, we have a bench tester that allows us to test one out of every 10 units to verify proper operation
    5. More power, better tune, direct fitment, and affordable.

    We are making this post to let everyone know that after the first of the year the pricing will be going up to $169 on every valve that we offer (MFG says that they cost more to make now, damn them!)

    Current pricing is:

    142 PRV $125
    145 PRV $150
    150 PRV $150

    You can find these listed on our website at www.hpfpupgrade.com

    The first of the year will have our new 138 bar PRV listed on the site, that will be when the prices go up. We are currently ordering a 100 units per crack pressure at this time in order to bring you the best pricing possible.

    Thanks,

    John with HPFPUPGRADE

  2. #2
    Senior Member Three Rings jonnybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 23 2009
    AZ Member #
    51152
    Location
    San Jose

    So if I'm on a Stage 1 tune on my 2.0t B7, will I end up chugging unnecessary gas? I plan to buy a GT3071 kit later mid 2012.

  3. #3
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnybravo View Post
    So if I'm on a Stage 1 tune on my 2.0t B7, will I end up chugging unnecessary gas? I plan to buy a GT3071 kit later mid 2012.
    No, the nice thing about the PRV is it will allow you hit your commanded fuel pressure not go over it. The only way you would end up going over the commanded pressure is if you were running one of our S2 fuel pump and had a tune build around a lower cracking pressure OEM rail limiter valve. To date I have yet to hear of any problems with one of our PRV valves causing an over rich or over fueling condition.

    Hope this helps!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Three Rings jonnybravo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 23 2009
    AZ Member #
    51152
    Location
    San Jose

    Cool...So I plan to install a GT3071. Will a 142 be enough? Or which do you recommend?

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Three Rings abzoni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 13 2010
    AZ Member #
    66964
    Location
    Toronto

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnybravo View Post
    Cool...So I plan to install a GT3071. Will a 142 be enough? Or which do you recommend?
    John recommended me to get the 150 when I asked him.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings fordyoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 20 2011
    AZ Member #
    74329
    Location
    Philadelphia

    just got the 150 valve
    Borg Warner EFR6758 B7 A4

  7. #7
    Established Member Two Rings devvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 15 2011
    AZ Member #
    82611
    Location
    Sweden

    Hi, I got the APR Stage 2+ tune for 98 RON ~2 weeks ago. When pulling WOT on 4th gear i feel that around 4700rpm-5000rpm the engine surges for a little bit then keeps coming. Is this something a PRV would fix? If so, which should I get? And is it possible for me living in Sweden to order one?
    A4 2.0TSQ 07.4 | APR Stage 2+ | Autotech HPFP | 034Motorsport HFC | STaSIS Cat-Back | BMC drop-in filter | RS4 Sway | RS4 Grille | RS4 PRV | NGK BR7EIX | B5 lowering caps | Rev. D DV | Podi Boost Gauge | EBC Red Stuff pads | 20%/30% Tint

  8. #8
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnybravo View Post
    Cool...So I plan to install a GT3071. Will a 142 be enough? Or which do you recommend?
    145 will work for your application.

  9. #9
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by fordyoz View Post
    just got the 150 valve

    Thanks for the purchase!

  10. #10
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by abzoni View Post
    John recommended me to get the 150 when I asked him.

    145 and 155 are the new options listed on the site. 145 was a little more tame for those running the 2+ tunes. Everyone who is making big power with custom tunes I am recommending the 155 bar unit.

  11. #11
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Quote Originally Posted by devvan View Post
    Hi, I got the APR Stage 2+ tune for 98 RON ~2 weeks ago. When pulling WOT on 4th gear i feel that around 4700rpm-5000rpm the engine surges for a little bit then keeps coming. Is this something a PRV would fix? If so, which should I get? And is it possible for me living in Sweden to order one?
    Sent you a PM, thanks.

  12. #12
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Customer testimonial:

    Got some awesome results from your fuel rail valve... i just instaled my cat cams and got on a dynapack dyno 568hp using only 4 Rs4 injectors... before i was peaking @ 497 hp ... now with the extra fuel pressure i got 60hp more!!!

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings blingaling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 12 2011
    AZ Member #
    70851
    My Garage
    05 ninja 636(RIP)
    Location
    NEPA

    Quote Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade View Post
    145 and 155 are the new options listed on the site. 145 was a little more tame for those running the 2+ tunes. Everyone who is making big power with custom tunes I am recommending the 155 bar unit.
    I just purchased the 145 bar prv and have not installed it but iplan on running and ko4 system or rai's efr kit with full bolt ons and water meth with a custom tune, now i havnt seen this thread until now so if im aiming to hit very close to 300awhp or slightly more should i have purchased the 155bar?? I emailed sales with this question also. I probably should of asked when i purchased so this is my fault lol

  14. #14
    Registered User Three Rings hpfpupgrade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 10 2011
    AZ Member #
    79556
    Location
    Auburn, WA

    Bump...

  15. #15
    Active Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Oct 06 2008
    AZ Member #
    33881
    Location
    San Diego

    Would like to upgrade my 2006 Audi A4 2.0t FSI high pressure fuel pump through your fuel pump rebuild program(HPFPupgrade.com). I would like to upgrade to stage 1. Do I also need to upgrade to a performance rail valve? I believe I have e stock rail valve. Can I run the stage 1 HPFP with the stock rail valve without suffering performance or wasting fuel? If I need to upgrade the rail valve, how many bars would be recommended?

    Thanks.

  16. #16
    Established Member Two Rings Merdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 28 2013
    AZ Member #
    114209
    Location
    Turkmenistan

    Quote Originally Posted by hpfpupgrade View Post
    Typically referred to as an RS4 rail limiter valve. As most know the OEM rail valves are limited to 106 or 116 bar. Why VW and Audi changed them I have no idea, but let me tell you why you need one.

    If you are running stock tune, you will not need one unless you have one that is worn out. If you are running a S1 tune or any tune that commands over 115 bar, you need a PRV (Performance Rail Valve).

    The rail limiter valve is used as a safety device, when you go over the target "crack pressure" (this is when the rail valve opens) it bleeds of fuel from the fuel rail/injectors. This additional fuel gets dumped back into the low pressure side of the fuel system and gets compressed by the high pressure fuel pump. Several people have upgraded to the RS4 valve, but this is not the best solution for your application.

    The RS4 rail valve is designed around dumping excessive fuel supply, so when it opens it dumps a larger volume than the stock or our PRV. This large dump of fuel will show a huge drop in fuel pressure, then the valve closes, the system builds pressure, then valve opens and repeats the cycle. This is not the optimal solution for a tuned car/engine. The RS4 valve had its time and place, now there are better solutions on the market.

    The tune will depend on what PRV you buy. The RS4 valve had a crack pressure of 136 bar, and it worked much better than the OEM units (see crack pressures above) on a tuned car. Problem being, it was not rated high enough for the S2 + tunes. Some S2+ tunes would target 130 to 135 bar for fuel pressure, this is only allowing 1 to 6 bar of opening protection, this is not enough. Rule of thumb when buying a PRV, go 10 to 12 bar over your target fuel pressure. So if you are commanding 130 bar, you should have a 140 to 142 bar rail limiting valve. 125 bar tune should have a 135 to 137 bar rail limiting valve.

    Why don't want to run your stock or OEM rail limiting valve? The rail limiting valve is used for over pressure control, not as a return line to your high pressure fuel pump. If you are running a 125 bar tune but have a 106 bar rail valve all that fuel is getting dumped back into the low pressure side. This can create a huge problem with heat and wear on the rail valve. When you compress the fuel over and over again it will start to build heat, that heat will then start to work its way into the surrounding items; lines, HPFP, injectors, fuel rail, ect. All this additional heat is getting put into the fuel, excessive heat in your fuel = poor cooling during injector spray event = loss in power. Not only this, but the constant opening and closing of the OEM rail limiter valve will cause irregular tune or power delivery to the drive train ( have seen this and dyno results from customers have confirmed this). Remember, the OEM valve is used for "safety" not to control your fuel system pressure. The OEM valve has a cycle life, if its consistently held open, that cycle life drops very quick.

    OK, we have talked about the RS4 valve, the OEM valve, and why you don't want to run either one of these. Now why should you run one of ours?

    1. OEM supplied part that is built for the 2.0 FSI engine (we are under contract to have the OEM MFG build these for us)
    2. Target crack pressure levels at 138 (new pressure we are adding first of the year) 142, 145 and 150 bar
    3. Proper flow control when the valve "cracks"/opens
    4. Testing, we have a bench tester that allows us to test one out of every 10 units to verify proper operation
    5. More power, better tune, direct fitment, and affordable.

    We are making this post to let everyone know that after the first of the year the pricing will be going up to $169 on every valve that we offer (MFG says that they cost more to make now, damn them!)

    Current pricing is:

    142 PRV $125
    145 PRV $150
    150 PRV $150

    You can find these listed on our website at www.hpfpupgrade.com

    The first of the year will have our new 138 bar PRV listed on the site, that will be when the prices go up. We are currently ordering a 100 units per crack pressure at this time in order to bring you the best pricing possible.

    Thanks,

    John with HPFPUPGRADE
    is that valves still available on the prices you mentioned above?

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