JHM tune on a high mileage RS4?

[DAYTA]

I'm having a set of JHM piggies and a JHM resonated exhaust installed on Thursday, and I just noticed that JHM his having a holiday sale on their software. I wasn't planning on adding a JHM tune until next Spring, but the sale has me intrigued. However, I'm a little concerned since my car has 122k miles on it and I'm not sure what wearable parts might be strained past reliability if I add the tune.

Are there any components that I'd have to worry about failing? When I picked up my car back in Oct, Coventry did a BG clean (I plan to walnut blast in the Spring) and they also replaced all spark plugs, ignition coils, and VC gaskets prior to delivery. My concern would be the fuel pump, injectors, and possibly the clutch.

[65vetteC6]

I'm having a set of JHM piggies and a JHM resonated exhaust installed on Thursday, and I just noticed that JHM his having a holiday sale on their software. I wasn't planning on adding a JHM tune until next Spring, but the sale has me intrigued. However, I'm a little concerned since my car has 122k miles on it and I'm not sure what wearable parts might be strained past reliability if I add the tune.

Are there any components that I'd have to worry about failing? When I picked up my car back in Oct, Coventry did a BG clean (I plan to walnut blast in the Spring) and they also replaced all spark plugs, ignition coils, and VC gaskets prior to delivery. My concern would be the fuel pump, injectors, and possibly the clutch.

As with any high performance car that gets into higher mileage there is always a chance of something failing. I think you nailed it with the key maintenance items people have had problems with though. Definitely do injectors.

[FastEddie]

INJECTORS!!!!

[DAYTA]

OK, so it sounds like replacing the injectors is a must at 122k miles if I go with the JHM tune...what if I just add the piggies + exhaust? I'm curious if the freer flowing exhaust setup will cause the ECU to compensate by adding more fuel to keep A/F ratios constant, thus putting more strain on the injectors?

Also, anyone have thoughts on replacing the fuel pump? I assume it will become necessary at some point?

[ven0m]

You have 3 fuel pumps.

[simple_king]

Fuel injectors are a must. When I got a tune I changed everything except the LP fuel pump. I got my HP pumps rebuilt, changed fuel injectors only because I got them on clearance for $30 each hitachi.

[NYC_Legacy]

Fuel injectors are a must. When I got a tune I changed everything except the LP fuel pump. I got my HP pumps rebuilt, changed fuel injectors only because I got them on clearance for $30 each hitachi.

Where did you have your HP pumps rebuilt?

[CoreyRS]

Why are injectors a must with the tune? Or at what mileage should they be serviced/replaced

[simple_king]

Where did you have your HP pumps rebuilt?

Tuning works in Lonh Island but most Indy shops can do it. Upgraded internals for higher flow rate.

[NYC_Legacy]

Tuning works in Lonh Island but most Indy shops can do it. Upgraded internals for higher flow rate.

Thank you, I'll have to check them out. Are you supercharged or planning on it? I can't imagine a higher flow rate being much help on an N/A set-up.

[simple_king]

Thank you, I'll have to check them out. Are you supercharged or planning on it? I can't imagine a higher flow rate being much help on an N/A set-up.

Yes I'm supercharged.

[Quattrors4]

I'm having a set of JHM piggies and a JHM resonated exhaust installed on Thursday, and I just noticed that JHM his having a holiday sale on their software. I wasn't planning on adding a JHM tune until next Spring, but the sale has me intrigued. However, I'm a little concerned since my car has 122k miles on it and I'm not sure what wearable parts might be strained past reliability if I add the tune.

Are there any components that I'd have to worry about failing? When I picked up my car back in Oct, Coventry did a BG clean (I plan to walnut blast in the Spring) and they also replaced all spark plugs, ignition coils, and VC gaskets prior to delivery. My concern would be the fuel pump, injectors, and possibly the clutch.

i would def change injectors and get new pumps ,or at least do some serious fuel logging,the jhm tune is very timing aggressive,any problem in fueling and your engine will be a time bomb ready to blow

[simple_king]

Also a leakdown test. Depending on the health of the engine you can choose someone with a soft tune or get the aggressive tune.

[DAYTA]

Fuel injectors are a must. When I got a tune I changed everything except the LP fuel pump. I got my HP pumps rebuilt, changed fuel injectors only because I got them on clearance for $30 each hitachi.

Also a leakdown test. Depending on the health of the engine you can choose someone with a soft tune or get the aggressive tune.

Thanks for the info. Where did you source injectors for $30 a piece?? Everywhere else I've looked has them at $700 for a set of 8. Also, how much did you save by getting your existing pumps rebuilt vs getting new ones?

In terms of tuning, which tunes are less aggressive than the JHM? I've read mixed reviews about the APR tune, and the other ones I know of are REVO and GIAC.

Btw...do you have a black supercharged RS4? If so, I think we met at the Carburetors & Coffee in New Canaan back in Oct (I brought my NSX).

[simple_king]

I got the injectors when FCP had a sale and it was 8 for $280 with shipping. I thought it was to good to be true but they arrived as described. I think the most aggressive tune is JHM and the rest can be considered soft tunes. I could be wrong tho. Upgraded internals cost between $500 -800 for both. Not sure how they will work with a NA engine.

I have a silver RS4 btw

[wahpao]

On my first RS4, I got the JHM tune at 60,000 and had 2 injectors fail at 63,000. I'm not definitive that it was the tune that caused it. Luckily it was only $600 for parts and labor from Audi to get the car back on the road. The tune definitely woke up the car and now I have their supercharger on my second RS4. I mean shit is bound to happen when we decide not to leave the car alone from the factory. The customer service has been second to none from JHM for me at least and that's why I decided to support them but who's to say things would have been the same if I had catastrophic failure and asked them for repairs? Thank God it didn't so Ill leave it at that. Just be prepared to have shit go wrong and if it does have money set aside to address the issues. Good luck.


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[65vetteC6]

Thanks for the info. Where did you source injectors for $30 a piece?? Everywhere else I've looked has them at $700 for a set of 8. Also, how much did you save by getting your existing pumps rebuilt vs getting new ones?

In terms of tuning, which tunes are less aggressive than the JHM? I've read mixed reviews about the APR tune, and the other ones I know of are REVO and GIAC.

Btw...do you have a black supercharged RS4? If so, I think we met at the Carburetors & Coffee in New Canaan back in Oct (I brought my NSX).

I wouldn't really bother with REVO or GIAC tunes, I think I have seen maybe one or two people give feedback. APR seems to lift some of the restrictions a factory tune holds back, JHM is probably the most popular because it wakes the car up so much. You could probably have UM do a custom tune for you as well, you probably are not far from them. As for a cleaning I used https://www.racecityinjector.com. There is a pretty long thread here somewhere that addresses symptoms and tests you can do.

On my first RS4, I got the JHM tune at 60,000 and had 2 injectors fail at 63,000. I'm not definitive that it was the tune that caused it. Luckily it was only $600 for parts and labor from Audi to get the car back on the road. The tune definitely woke up the car and now I have their supercharger on my second RS4. I mean shit is bound to happen when we decide not to leave the car alone from the factory. The customer service has been second to none from JHM for me at least and that's why I decided to support them but who's to say things would have been the same if I had catastrophic failure and asked them for repairs? Thank God it didn't so Ill leave it at that. Just be prepared to have shit go wrong and if it does have money set aside to address the issues. Good luck.


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The injectors were probably just a coincidental failure. There are a lot more cases being reported now at higher mileage with them. Good to see you are still enjoying that car.

[Chuuey]

Thanks for the info. Where did you source injectors for $30 a piece?? Everywhere else I've looked has them at $700 for a set of 8. Also, how much did you save by getting your existing pumps rebuilt vs getting new ones?

In terms of tuning, which tunes are less aggressive than the JHM? I've read mixed reviews about the APR tune, and the other ones I know of are REVO and GIAC.

Btw...do you have a black supercharged RS4? If so, I think we met at the Carburetors & Coffee in New Canaan back in Oct (I brought my NSX).

I was about to ask the same. $30 injectors?! If that was the case I'd buy two spare sets... Cheapest I have found are FCP as well roughly ~$585 a set.

I definitely recall seeing your NSX at C&C. Love those shows.

[Blackstallion]

Ill be that DB - "I got my HP pumps rebuilt, changed fuel injectors only because I got them on clearance for $30 each hitachi"

So where was this clearance?

[Chuuey]

Ill be that DB - "I got my HP pumps rebuilt, changed fuel injectors only because I got them on clearance for $30 each hitachi"

So where was this clearance?

They are 72.99 on clearance right now.

[CoreyRS]

Not to threadjack, but on a stock RS4 is it advised to replace the injectors at higher mileage? I recall reading the thread 65vetteC6 mentioned and it seemed that the consensus was that the hitachi injectors were not necessarily equivalent to the OEM injectors.

[ven0m]

Not to threadjack, but on a stock RS4 is it advised to replace the injectors at higher mileage? I recall reading the thread 65vetteC6 mentioned and it seemed that the consensus was that the hitachi injectors were not necessarily equivalent to the OEM injectors.

It is wise to change injectors. Faulty injectors can lead to a lean or wet internal combustion, which may result in various chamber damages as scorched walls, etc. Best way to monitor this is by checking your fuel trims with VAG-COM - STFT and LTFT. (search for threads on injectors and you'll find gold)

Injector calibration is a no-go, as our injectors are direct injection type, which work at 182bar. The standard benches used for injector testing are made for port injection, which works at 4 to 8bar. It is possible you don't find a fault on an injector at that low pressure, then you put it back into the car and you have the same faults again.

Best is to replace all 8 and have piece at mind.

If doing a tune any fault that was minor at OEM ecu settings will/can be amplified.


One point from my side, which many forget is good O2 sensors. These sensors are the only "eyes" of our ECU how to adapt the a/f ratio and timing, so faulty sensors can also return faulty data to the ECU resulting in wrong mixtures or camshaft timing adjustments.


My 2 cents on what I learned on AZ from the forum members which share their experience.

[65vetteC6]

Thanks for the info. Where did you source injectors for $30 a piece?? Everywhere else I've looked has them at $700 for a set of 8. Also, how much did you save by getting your existing pumps rebuilt vs getting new ones?

In terms of tuning, which tunes are less aggressive than the JHM? I've read mixed reviews about the APR tune, and the other ones I know of are REVO and GIAC.

Btw...do you have a black supercharged RS4? If so, I think we met at the Carburetors & Coffee in New Canaan back in Oct (I brought my NSX).

Not to threadjack, but on a stock RS4 is it advised to replace the injectors at higher mileage? I recall reading the thread 65vetteC6 mentioned and it seemed that the consensus was that the hitachi injectors were not necessarily equivalent to the OEM injectors.

I had Hitachi and OEM injectors tested at the same time (both brand new) and there was a small variance. As ven0m said though, all of the cleans and testing that is done is done a a fraction of operating pressures so its tough to say. I would think that the difference is amplified at a higher pressure but thats all guesses until someone actually finds a machine to test at operating pressures.

[prfktgntlmn]

I bought my Hitachi injectors from FCP back in March, $47 a piece. I remember about 3 days after, the price jumped up to over $70.

[S42RS4]

I bought my Hitachi injectors from FCP back in March, $47 a piece. I remember about 3 days after, the price jumped up to over $70.

I'm running Hitachi injectors also, I replace all 8 and put over 4k miles on them. No problems so far and it got rid of my misfire that I was having. I brought a set off ebay for under 500 bucks.

[DAYTA]

Got my car back from Excelerate Performance, loved the mods they added for me today. Highly recommended.

Coincidentally, I had no idea that EPL was a well known and respected tuner on AZ and more importantly because they're now literally right next door to Excelerate! I spoke to Tony about the EPL tune for our cars and I'm considering trying it out. Between having local support and the potential for a custom dyno tune on EPL's Mustang dyno, I may be going down this route instead.

However, a tune will probably have to wait for a bit as the previous set of mods just ran my bank account completely dry. I think I'm also going to play it safe, take everyone's recommendations, and save up some $$$ so I can replace the injectors and HPFPs first before moving forward with the tune. For now, I'm happy with the extra few ponies I got from the JHM piggies + resonated exhaust...not to mention that glorious sound!

[wahpao]

I wouldn't really bother with REVO or GIAC tunes, I think I have seen maybe one or two people give feedback. APR seems to lift some of the restrictions a factory tune holds back, JHM is probably the most popular because it wakes the car up so much. You could probably have UM do a custom tune for you as well, you probably are not far from them. As for a cleaning I used https://www.racecityinjector.com. There is a pretty long thread here somewhere that addresses symptoms and tests you can do.



The injectors were probably just a coincidental failure. There are a lot more cases being reported now at higher mileage with them. Good to see you are still enjoying that car.

No that was my first RS4 that the injectors failed. I blew the head gasket on the supercharged one and am in the process of putting the motor back in. Just got doing a CC and I'm just taking my time, like 5 months lol.


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[65vetteC6]

No that was my first RS4 that the injectors failed. I blew the head gasket on the supercharged one and am in the process of putting the motor back in. Just got doing a CC and I'm just taking my time, like 5 months lol.


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Blew a head gasket??? Out of curiosity what were the symptoms?


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[wahpao]

Blew a head gasket??? Out of curiosity what were the symptoms?


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Leaking oil. Was adding a quart every other day.


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[IronmanS4]

Tony is the best ! he's tuned all my cars since forever and I have supplied him with all his development mules ( B8 S4 and his current 16 S3 ) . He actually just tuned my RS4 and I was pleasantly surprised how noticeable the gains are for this NA motor.

That said...more power will also speed up some wear rate issues that are on the verge of popping up. I would at least do the injectors and breather/pcv system. Having seen how bad the carbon gets on these 4.2's...no chemical out there will make a diff, so get a proper CC.

If you don't mind me asking...how much did Excelerate charge for installing the piggies ?

Got my car back from Excelerate Performance, loved the mods they added for me today. Highly recommended.

Coincidentally, I had no idea that EPL was a well known and respected tuner on AZ and more importantly because they're now literally right next door to Excelerate! I spoke to Tony about the EPL tune for our cars and I'm considering trying it out. Between having local support and the potential for a custom dyno tune on EPL's Mustang dyno, I may be going down this route instead.

However, a tune will probably have to wait for a bit as the previous set of mods just ran my bank account completely dry. I think I'm also going to play it safe, take everyone's recommendations, and save up some $$$ so I can replace the injectors and HPFPs first before moving forward with the tune. For now, I'm happy with the extra few ponies I got from the JHM piggies + resonated exhaust...not to mention that glorious sound!

[Chuuey]

Got my car back from Excelerate Performance, loved the mods they added for me today. Highly recommended.

Coincidentally, I had no idea that EPL was a well known and respected tuner on AZ and more importantly because they're now literally right next door to Excelerate! I spoke to Tony about the EPL tune for our cars and I'm considering trying it out. Between having local support and the potential for a custom dyno tune on EPL's Mustang dyno, I may be going down this route instead.

However, a tune will probably have to wait for a bit as the previous set of mods just ran my bank account completely dry. I think I'm also going to play it safe, take everyone's recommendations, and save up some $$$ so I can replace the injectors and HPFPs first before moving forward with the tune. For now, I'm happy with the extra few ponies I got from the JHM piggies + resonated exhaust...not to mention that glorious sound!

In my neck of the woods. Good people at XLR8 and EPL.

[meistah]

I don't think EPL has shown any proven performance gains on the s4 or rs4 4.2 engines aside from a supercharger, don't think they would be a great choice for a tune. I understand that they can custom dyno tune and show whp gains on a chart, but so can lots of other companies. We've seen lots of cases of companies putting a tune on a stock or stock + exhaust RS4 that didn't make any difference. Aside from an initial feel from the throttle response changing, the actual acceleration of the car didn't improve.

[WinterRunner]

Excelerate did all my Acura CL Type-S work years ago, had a Comptech blower installed and a bunch of other Comptech goodies. Josh (owner) does great work and stands by it 100%.

[Chuuey]

I don't think EPL has shown any proven performance gains on the s4 or rs4 4.2 engines aside from a supercharger, don't think they would be a great choice for a tune. I understand that they can custom dyno tune and show whp gains on a chart, but so can lots of other companies. We've seen lots of cases of companies putting a tune on a stock or stock + exhaust RS4 that didn't make any difference. Aside from an initial feel from the throttle response changing, the actual acceleration of the car didn't improve.

With all due respect, isn't that the nature of tuning this motor and not just EPLs results? Disclaimer, for me, tuning this car to put unneeded stress on certain components for negligible gains just isn't worth it. I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment- I think a lot of these tunes change the dynamic of the car, the power delivery and the throttle input which probably does a lot for 8 year old software. But, I do not think the performance gain translates to just "whp gains" for any of the tunes available. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[meistah]

With all due respect, isn't that the nature of tuning this motor and not just EPLs results? Disclaimer, for me, tuning this car to put unneeded stress on certain components for negligible gains just isn't worth it. I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment- I think a lot of these tunes change the dynamic of the car, the power delivery and the throttle input which probably does a lot for 8 year old software. But, I do not think the performance gain translates to just "whp gains" for any of the tunes available. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I get where you're coming from. JHMs tune has been proven to show significant whp and real world performance increase with those basic mods though. Tune + exhaust takes it from a high 12/low 13 second 1/4 mile car to a low 12 second 1/4 mile car. Other companies haven't been able to replicate that performance from what I've seen. I'd link you a chart but it's blocked on this site, lol. I'm sure there's some on here also.

[Peter1.8t]

Some good suggestions on what parts to buy before getting a tune. You always want to make sure your car is healthy before changing the file. If EPL is next door have them do it. When they throw it on the dyno they will be able to get live data on what is actually going on with your engine. Tony is a knowledgeable guy, if there is an issue he will let you know. That's a huge extra that your getting that most people don't have the privilege of getting.

Better option than just throwing on a file from who knows where, made by a guy that you don't know, because some people on the internet that you don't even know said it was good.

[nr103]

I get where you're coming from. JHMs tune has been proven to show significant whp and real world performance increase with those basic mods though. Tune + exhaust takes it from a high 12/low 13 second 1/4 mile car to a low 12 second 1/4 mile car. Other companies haven't been able to replicate that performance from what I've seen. I'd link you a chart but it's blocked on this site, lol. I'm sure there's some on here also.

Are these numbers quoted somewhere? I have a hard time believing exhaust and turn transforms the car into low 12s without any other mods. Define "low"

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[DAYTA]

Are these numbers quoted somewhere? I have a hard time believing exhaust and turn transforms the car into low 12s without any other mods. Define "low"

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Dyno results have shown JHM tune + full exhaust (2.75" header back) can net 40whp on the RS4.

See this thread for 1/4 results: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-4-mile-Record

12.2 is in the "low" 12's by my book, and whatever accelerations gains he may have had from the JHM clutch/flywheel would probably have been offset by the skinny winter tires he was running.

[Chuuey]

Dyno results have shown JHM tune + full exhaust (2.75" header back) can net 40whp on the RS4.

See this thread for 1/4 results: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-4-mile-Record

12.2 is in the "low" 12's by my book, and whatever accelerations gains he may have had from the JHM clutch/flywheel would probably have been offset by the skinny winter tires he was running.

I just want to clarify, and this is not intended to be malicious.

I believe the 40 whp gain you are referencing is inaccurate. Perhaps just a misunderstanding of the facts.

That comparison is between a car which was not (and had never been) carbon cleaned vs a car that was carbon cleaned 10k ago, tuned, and had every bolt on. There are some factors at play. Additionally, these parameters were measured via vag com and not an actual dyno.

40 wheel, to me, seems like a lot.

And just to give credit where it is due, the track times are the track times. There are gains.

[meistah]

I think 40whp is a reasonable estimate... regardless of what the actual number is, we can all agree that tune + exhaust on this car giving you 12.2x is a large gain. There's some other examples of this, but I think Mistros and Dans are the only ones on this forum.