Fluidampr pulley

[Dippy]

It finally looks like I'll be able to get my S5 tuned in the near future. Since it is likely that I'll be going for the crank pulley solution, I need to have some serious thoughts about whether its OK to have an undampened pulley or if I should get the Fluidampr one. It seems to me that apart from the extra cost it seems that going for the Fluidampr pulley is the safest option. Are there any downsides that I am unaware of?

[JD S4]

This argument has been had a million times on a million different forums with a million different cars.. The arguments almost always end up the same - it's a personal choice. All of the "data" seems to back up the validity of a dampened pulley but anecdotal evidence suggests many cars run tens of thousands of miles without dampening and are "fine"..

Personal preference. It's all about risk tolerance.

My 2 cents - is risking a $15k engine worth saving $300 up front? For me, no. For others, absolutely. Choice is yours.

[jachien]

Just outta curiosity. What mileage and what year are you. I have a '13 with 65k miles about and sorta am concerned with the stock crank pulley going out soon. Luckily though I have a 189mm ready.


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[cjw]

I'm curious if the rubber ring in the stocker really offers any dampening. Would be nice to see some proof from Fluidampr on their testing. No one has seemingly had any issue with solid pulleys. Most of the pioneers are driving the shit out of their cars too.

[abamfo]

Loe and I have both found that the FD pulley is a far superior for roughness while idling, which is only worsened by lighter undampened pulley... I won't touch a lightweight crank pulley ever again

[ModItNow]

Not many people have found a reason to go dampened but there also hasn't been many dampened options before fluidampr. Just reading about them on other platforms made me want to buy it. Doesn't MRC and other tuners in the UK use undampened pullies?


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[xpoweruk]

Not many people have found a reason to go dampened but there also hasn't been many dampened options before fluidampr. Just reading about them on other platforms made me want to buy it. Doesn't MRC and other tuners in the UK use undampened pullies?


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MRC have always used a solid undamped crank pulley.No known issues & they have been fitting them since 2012 I believe

[waxxonMTL]

Not many people have found a reason to go dampened but there also hasn't been many dampened options before fluidampr. Just reading about them on other platforms made me want to buy it. Doesn't MRC and other tuners in the UK use undampened pullies?


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ati throught BMG was available back then. FYI

[Dippy]

Thanks for the comments. As noted by my fellow Brit I know that MRC have been fitting undampened crank pulleys for years and I have not read any reports of problems. However I believe that most other tuners offer the supercharger pulley (in fact when I contacted REVO they weren't willing to consider supporting a FD pulley instead). I guess I'd be willing to go undampened but I'd be happier paying the extra for a FD for the confidence that a small risk is even smaller. The fact that some people are noticing smoother idle with the FD furthers that confidence.

Do any FD owners have anything negative to report?

[ModItNow]

ati throught BMG was available back then. FYI

Yes GMG offered one of the first crank pullies and it's dampened..


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[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

Loe and I have both found that the FD pulley is a far superior for roughness while idling, which is only worsened by lighter undampened pulley... I won't touch a lightweight crank pulley ever again

I said that when I first swapped to a FD from the JHM on mine and everyone said I was crazy. Glad to see some reputable people backing it up. Def less NVH with the FD.

The FD is excellent and so is there customer service. I wouldn't hesitate paying the extra just for their support, let alone the benefits. As far as negatives, I've seen none and, as stated, have run both the undampened JHM 179mm as well as the FD 183mm.


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[theweebabyseamus]

This argument has been had a million times on a million different forums with a million different cars.. The arguments almost always end up the same - it's a personal choice. All of the "data" seems to back up the validity of a dampened pulley but anecdotal evidence suggests many cars run tens of thousands of miles without dampening and are "fine"..

Personal preference. It's all about risk tolerance.

My 2 cents - is risking a $15k engine worth saving $300 up front? For me, no. For others, absolutely. Choice is yours.

Well said.

[scottycs]

I would have went with Fluidampr if the price was reasonable. $898 is ridiculous for a crank pulley.

[waxxonMTL]

I would have went with Fluidampr if the price was reasonable. $898 is ridiculous for a crank pulley.

the ATI sell for the same. So its the audi tax.. The oem is about 400$ i believe. So, it's on par I would say. not ridiculous.

1500$ for an air intake is ridiculous tho.

[scottycs]

I am comparing to other Fluidampr products and the fact they charge $199 for a larger diameter.

[waxxonMTL]

I am comparing to other Fluidampr products and the fact they charge $199 for a larger diameter.

yeah i agree, i paid like 350 for my RB26 FD lol

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Loe and I have both found that the FD pulley is a far superior for roughness while idling, which is only worsened by lighter undampened pulley... I won't touch a lightweight crank pulley ever again

I think you're talking out of your ass on that one because I have one from JHM and my idle is not rough at all. It's not even lumpy as it used to sometimes be with the stock pulley a long time ago. No hunting of RPM, nothing. So I don't know where you get your info from, but you might wanna not spread it like it's gospel.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Thanks for the comments. As noted by my fellow Brit I know that MRC have been fitting undampened crank pulleys for years and I have not read any reports of problems. However I believe that most other tuners offer the supercharger pulley (in fact when I contacted REVO they weren't willing to consider supporting a FD pulley instead). I guess I'd be willing to go undampened but I'd be happier paying the extra for a FD for the confidence that a small risk is even smaller. The fact that some people are noticing smoother idle with the FD furthers that confidence.

Do any FD owners have anything negative to report?

You guys do realize that if you do notice a smoother idle it has NOTHING to do with the FD's argument that simply because it's dampened, it's lowering vibrations, right...? Cuz here's the thing. The FD isn't dampened like the OEM one is, it's dampened with a viscous liquid inside which causes the pulley to have an inertial type of behavior itself. So, it's the principal of this additional inertial behavior and possibly also the added weight that might act to smooth the idle of the engine. But like I said, I have a JHM one and have a rock solid and smooth idle. My idle actually improved and became smoother after doing some carbon cleaning, so I'm not even going to say that the JHM pulley did anything to get rid of the lumpy idle I had a while back if anything. Honestly, had it not been for a slightly quieter and smoother idle that I noticed one time after doing the cleaning, I wouldn't have even thought about it.

[scottycs]

I also have the JHM and the idle and smoothness of the car is identical to stock.

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

I also have the JHM and the idle and smoothness of the car is identical to stock.

I disagree, I've had all three. JHM>stock>=FD. It's not an issue of the idle staying smooth and not hopping RPM's, there is more noticeable NVH in the JHM at idle than with the FD. I also have some bushing inserts so maybe that is having an impact? But this is all based on perspective and maybe confirmation or frequency bias by any/all parties on either side. INA and FD do claim to have information to back up the claim there is significant vibration with a solid, but I haven't seen it at this point.


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[scottycs]

So really you didn't go back to back with only changing the pulley? I am still weary of the non dampened pulley, but I can attest there is no noticeable change from stock.

Also, they have information to back up? But won't release it? They shouldn't make the claim unless they are willing to share the info.

I disagree, I've had all three. JHM>stock>=FD. It's not an issue of the idle staying smooth and not hopping RPM's, there is more noticeable NVH in the JHM at idle than with the FD. I also have some bushing inserts so maybe that is having an impact? But this is all based on perspective and maybe confirmation or frequency bias by any/all parties on either side. INA and FD do claim to have information to back up the claim there is significant vibration with a solid, but I haven't seen it at this point.


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[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

^^^ Yeah, exactly, we haven't seen shit at this point. The guy who did this FD design was all about releasing some info to the public they got in testing, etc., but we never got anything. The subject eventually died and no one has said anything since, so yeah... I think everyone should run what they want to run. If you wanna spend the money on an FD because they sold you on the "concept" that their's is better, so it. If not, then buy a solid one and do whatever. If anything, in my opinion, I'd trust JHM before KI for solid pulleys, but that's just because they've made theirs for a lot longer and for many Audi platforms and to my knowledge KI is new to the scene, so while it's not that difficult to cut a pulley out of a piece of aluminum, taking into consideration how much weight you should shave and how much not to is something that should be considered in this case in my option.

And trust me... I'm by no means a JHM fanboy, they've made plenty of shit products like their brakes and high flow CATs that suck ass, so I'm not here to sell you on the JHM stuff by any means.

[OnEaNgRyBuNnY]

I went from stock to JHM to FD back to same JHM and I am just waiting to have enough time to put the FD back on. The bushings were put on while the JHM was on the first time or even before that, but the switch to the FD, they were already installed and I didn't touch them after.

Swank, I agree, I wouldn't knock anyone any way they would go on this with what is known at this point, it's preference as pointed out.

I didn't mention that they said they had info that they then didn't release to back them up, I was treated very well by INA and Fluidampr but I'm no fanboy either, I'm as, uh, curious as the next person when someone says they have the info and never release it, which is what I was trying to get at...




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[abamfo]

I think you're talking out of your ass on that one because I have one from JHM and my idle is not rough at all. It's not even lumpy as it used to sometimes be with the stock pulley a long time ago. No hunting of RPM, nothing. So I don't know where you get your info from, but you might wanna not spread it like it's gospel.

Mate, why would I talk sh*t about this. I switched from the lightweight underdrive JHM pulley (not the overdrive) and my idle is far less lumpy tan it was before. It is no secret that some people have issues with NVH at idle, there are numerous threads on it. I noticed it as soon as installed the FD but didn't say anything until Loe also mentioned it, and now that OneEagreBunny said something it can't just be a coincidence that we all noticed it. I'm not commenting on performance because that is something which I and other can't comment on unless you've tested before and after. But if you think I'm talking out of my arse I don't give a shi*t, glad you have a car which doesn't have any idle NVH issues but there are plenty that do.

[Loe]

I was hesitant myself to post something about it and never mentioned it for weeks because I thought it was placebo, and felt it would be controversial. I don't think anyone posting here is trying to sell or convince anyone, rather giving their personal experience.

I did go from the OEM crank pulley to a JHM, then a KI and I did not notice any perceived differences in idle quality or NVH, a slightly different experience than others. However, when I switched over to the FD, I noticed subtle differences days after (my fault because I was more excited/thrilled that I can use my fuel mix effectively, and me constantly logging with GIAC so I never got to sit back and realize the differences) while sitting at idle, because it was then that I realized the occasional lumpy idle was reduced (I'm strictly speaking of the lumpy stuff only, not NVH). It's not completely gone, but it feels like there is a layer of carpeting from that source of shake. The usual primary engine vibrations are still there for me that only cushier engine mounts can filter out. There are other aspects that I've noticed that are hard for me to even digest, let alone comprehend how/why it even effected it, but I'll wait to say something down the line about it.

I'm not saying either method is the best in terms of performance or in terms of what you want out of a pulley, I'm strictly talking about my experience with pulley swapping. Would I be hesitant to run a solid pulley? no, I ran it for awhile and loved every minute of it; there doesn't exist to be any evident on this platform thus far that has shown detrimental affect just yet. Each pulley available has its happy customers for sure, choose which one you feel is best for your needs based on research. The customer service from JHM, KI, and FD have all been easy.

Dippy, what I would say to you is that at this moment, if you are only limiting yourself to a crank pulley upgrade-only, that it does limit you with some tuners who require a purchase of their s/c pulley. IIRC Uni-tronic and EPL are the only two that don't limit you on this (Kudos for being ahead of the game!), whereas I believe APR, GIAC, REVO, and maybe 034 may limit you to purchasing their pulley. If so, this may change in the future as more and more tuners are becoming more receptive to market demands and the performance gains of having an overdrive crank pulley as a viable alternative.

[whiped]

I'm going to attempt to stay out of the shit but let's see what happens.

NVH on a pulley that is functioning properly is going to be very hard to observe. JHM/KI/FD/Stock whatever, assuming they are balanced and installed correctly shouldn't be very noticeable even with some type of measuring device.

I saw some of the test data for the FD pulley's and it begged more questions than it answered. The questions I asked privately about the data were never answered and I somewhat doubt the validity of the data itself.

With that aside, I think the biggest reason FD is not releasing any data is simply because it is not tangible/measurable short term let alone conclusively enough to please most of us.

When it comes down to it there are two camps: Those that believe in a dampened pulley and those that do not.

I personally plan to run a dampened pulley for few reasons:

1. I plan to keep and daily my car until it is no longer feasible. Hopefully 5+ years so the longevity of a part and the overall life of the car is important to me.
2. I believe if Audi could have safely ran a non-dampened pulley they would have.
3. Issam is actively working with us on improve the platform and his products (FWIW, I do think the cost is a bit high)

If you are someone who plans to sell your car in a few years or only put 10k miles on it. It probably does not matter. If you plan to put over 100k miles on your car I'd go with a dampened pulley. (OEM, FD, GMG, etc)

****This is my opinion, I am not a lawyer, I do not represent any of these companies, I only somewhat know what I'm talking about, take everything I say with a grain of salt, it's your car make up your own mind

[Trent212]

I have had stock--->186KI--->179 FD, and from what I could tell nothing changed. Little less SC noise with the smaller pulley, but as far as anything else, more than likely would have just been in my head.

The shop that put on my 186 didn't grind the mounting boss down like I had suggested they do, on the install, and I tore my SC belt into about 5 different pieces.

So I have mixed feelings about that still at the moment, and they suggested I move down to a 179 seeing as they have put two on without having any issues. If not for me being out of town and just wanting my car back running when I got back, I most likely would have put the time aside and did the grinding myself and put a new belt on and save $1200 for parts+labor.

So hind site, non vs dampened, I think it depends on how long *YOU* plan on keeping the car, and if you think it would be fine to take a minor risk and save money.

[theweebabyseamus]

[*]I believe if Audi could have safely ran a non-dampened pulley they would have.

This is the one that stands out to me. If there was no difference in NVH, reliabilty, or anything else, I dont see them going to the trouble of mass producing a dampened pulley from the factory vs a machined pulley they could certainly produce/have produced for much cheaper. That being said, I have 5 days on my B8 so I have no dog in the fight.

[RyanJon]

I think what a lot of people are not realising is that the type of vibrations the pully is dampening are so small you wouldn't pick them up and would need a machine to measure them. They are called harmonics and although minute can cause premature wear and failure of components which will only show up in the long run. If you were to google harmonics in an engine it'll throw up plenty of info.

I'm an electrical engineer and have experienced how destructive harmonics in a transformer can be so I'm very wary of causing harmonics in my engine.

[cjw]

I mentioned it before, but is a rubber ring in the stock pulley really offering any damping? The limited Fluidampr info was against the OEM pulley.

[whiped]

I mentioned it before, but is a rubber ring in the stock pulley really offering any damping? The limited Fluidampr info was against the OEM pulley.

The info I saw was supporting it over a solid crank.

[cjw]

The three dyno graphs are labelled stock pulley that I saw. No other info was given to me. Two of them showed stock being better for power. No harmonics info. The third, I would estimate only shows a gain above 5500. It's not good or complete info.

[whiped]

The three dyno graphs are labelled stock pulley that I saw. No other info was given to me. Two of them showed stock being better for power. No harmonics info. The third, I would estimate only shows a gain above 5500. It's not good or complete info.

One of those graphs showed a "non-dampened" pulley and a huge loss in power. Granted, I don't really believe it 🙄

My opinion is based off my understanding of physics and the points I posted above.

I consider those graphs mostly hogwash.

[cjw]

All three graphs are clearly labeled OEM and stock. Two showed no gains or losses. That's what they sent me.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Mate, why would I talk sh*t about this. I switched from the lightweight underdrive JHM pulley (not the overdrive) and my idle is far less lumpy tan it was before. It is no secret that some people have issues with NVH at idle, there are numerous threads on it. I noticed it as soon as installed the FD but didn't say anything until Loe also mentioned it, and now that OneEagreBunny said something it can't just be a coincidence that we all noticed it. I'm not commenting on performance because that is something which I and other can't comment on unless you've tested before and after. But if you think I'm talking out of my arse I don't give a shi*t, glad you have a car which doesn't have any idle NVH issues but there are plenty that do.

Just for shits and giggles, after I changed my oil tonight, I let the engine idle and put a small flashlight on top of the front supercharger plastic cover standing on end while the engine idled. Flashlight didn't vibrate enough to tip over or drop or move even. Shit's smooth as silk... I dunno what to tell you. I should have taken a video so you can see. If it's smooth enough for that, it's smooth enough for me. How much more do you need?

[abamfo]

Just for shits and giggles, after I changed my oil tonight, I let the engine idle and put a small flashlight on top of the front supercharger plastic cover standing on end while the engine idled. Flashlight didn't vibrate enough to tip over or drop or move even. Shit's smooth as silk... I dunno what to tell you. I should have taken a video so you can see. If it's smooth enough for that, it's smooth enough for me. How much more do you need?

Great, well we can now safely say (thanks to Swank) that there are no rough idle issues with any b8/b8.5 s4/s5/a5. So a heavy crank pulley has no beneficial effect over a lightweight crank for a lumpy idle under any circumstance simply because the condition doesn't exist on Swank's car. Well done but just for shits and giggles, here is some reading...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...4-idle-quality

EDIT: Lost my car for two weeks (someone ran into me) but I'll be doing your flashlight test after a full heat cycle when I get it back, I'll take a video too

[Loe]

Great, well we can now safely say (thanks to Swank) that there are no rough idle issues with any b8/b8.5 s4/s5/a5. So a heavy crank pulley has no beneficial effect over a lightweight crank for a lumpy idle under any circumstance simply because the condition doesn't exist on Swank's car. Well done but just for shits and giggles, here is some reading...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...4-idle-quality

EDIT: Lost my car for two weeks (someone ran into me) but I'll be doing your flashlight test after a full heat cycle when I get it back, I'll take a video too

I realized that I never posted an update on that thread (probably because I was figuring out my deposit issue on cyl #5, which turned out to be the s/c coolant leak). Spark plug gap didn't change idle quality over the long-run. I have always wondered why this engine can be slightly lumpy at idle (experienced this with local Audi guys on S4/S5/A6 cars), but that's probably another subject to not turn this one off course. There are many 90* V6's out there that are butter smooth (Jag's 3.0 S/C is one that comes to mind, and then GM's 3800).

[Dippy]

Thanks again for the comments. As to Loe's point in #25 I am still in the situation where I have near zero tuning options because I have the CREC engine with SIMOS 16 ECU. However now that Flashtec have cracked that ECU the situation will change. So far only a single tuner has announced a map and that is stage 1 only with the cheap gas (95 RON over here). Depending on how things fare over the next few months I may or may not get a choice over which or what pulley I can get. So I'm just getting a 'feel' for how much I should care about having the FD pulley. I kept my stage 1+ B5 S4 for 13 years (11 of them tuned) and if the stage 2 for my B8.5 is as good as I anticipate, I may well keep it for many years too, since I can't see what new car I'd want to replace it with (especially if the RS5 'only' gets the 2.9 biturbo with the same sort of tune it has in the Panamera). So I do care about long term reliability (but not enough to stay stock :)).

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Great, well we can now safely say (thanks to Swank) that there are no rough idle issues with any b8/b8.5 s4/s5/a5. So a heavy crank pulley has no beneficial effect over a lightweight crank for a lumpy idle under any circumstance simply because the condition doesn't exist on Swank's car. Well done but just for shits and giggles, here is some reading...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...4-idle-quality

EDIT: Lost my car for two weeks (someone ran into me) but I'll be doing your flashlight test after a full heat cycle when I get it back, I'll take a video too

Maybe you have issues cuz it's an A5.

[abamfo]

Maybe you have issues cuz it's an A5.

I should note she doesn't have a rough idle when I baby her, maybe that's what I'm doing wrong ... either way she goes alright for an A