B7 Driving Impressions from a new Audi Owner / Prior Bimmer afficionado (Impressed)

[LBCB7]

I'm sure there's lots of tenured Audizine members on here who have enjoyed these cars for many years. However, I felt that people may be interested to hear my thoughts on the Audi B7 as a new owner and prior owner of MANY 3-series BMWs

The short story is that I am absolutely blown away by the driving dynamics of this car and the overall value of the package. Mine is a 2008 A4 2.0T front-track S-line (not true S-line, but standard 2008 "s-line"). In comparison, I'm referencing my most recent BMW, which was a 2001 330i with the sport/M package (wheels, interior, etc.), automatic tranny. I've owned 4 other BMWs btw, including two other 3-series, an older 5 series and an X5. Granted the Audi is 7 years newer, but in terms of second-hand market price, the two cars are very comparable, whereas a 2008 3-series would surely cost thousands more. I only paid $5500 for my A4.

Performance/Handling:

Although the BMW 6-cyclinder is famed for it's smooth power delivery, and I can see why many "experts" prefer it over the 2.0T, I was pleasantly surprised by the grunt in my A4. Of course, this is bone-stock and I'm scheduled for my APR flash on Saturday. I'm interested to see if the BMW boasts any advantage once my A4 is flashed. Otherwise, I've found the power adequate and no obvious shortcomings when compared to the BMW. Perhaps more importantly--and I mean this very sincerely--I find the driving dynamics, handling, etc. PREFERABLE to the BMW. The car feels more solid and better handling--especially at high speed. Yes, I said it. Yes, I mean it. For all of the BMW fanfare with regards to steering, "driving on rails" etc., I actually prefer the Audi's handling. Even with front-track, I can't believe how engaging the vehicle rides. The A4 also feels MUCH lighter than the BMW, though I haven't checked the stats on that yet. I can't see why all of the editors of the major car mags gave the B7 mediocre ratings on driving dynamics. I know that they always rate the 3-series as the gold standard, but you'd think they'd give more accolades to the Audi, given how great it drives.

Comfort:

The Audi wins hands-down. Not even close. From seats to ergonomics to intuitive controls relating to wiper control, etc. to storage compartments, to audio, to climate control, the Audi is simply far superior. I'm am in pure comfort in the A4. The BMW isn't/wasn't bad, but it was no Audi in terms of interior design and comfort. This was probably my best surprise as a new Audi owner. On that note, I'd say that the Audi is the "most German" car of the bunch. If Audi represents the pinnacle of German minimalist luxury, then BMW is 2nd and Mercedes is third (I've also owned Merc). The Audi seems sportier, "cleaner" and more minimalist than the BMW, which in turn, has the same relationship with the over-engineered and too-cushy Merc.

Efficiency/Running Costs:

While, admittedly, I have some fears about VW/Audi maintenance and running costs, I already know that my A4 is getting far superior fuel economy. My 330i was running 17mpg in L.A. driving, and I'm pretty certain the Audi will at least get 22 if I'm driving conservatively. Although the Audi requires synthetic oil changes, my independent shop quoted me $75 for the oil change, while my BMW guy was charging $80 for conventional oil change (didn't use BMW oil and said it didn't matter. This guy is a BMW legend btw, so he knew his stuff). I'm thinking running costs will likely be a wash once the improved fuel economy is factored-in.

Value/Summary:

Knock on wood, but I have NO regrets about my purchase and decision to leave BMW. I haven't been this pleased over a used car purchase in a looooooong time. I'm sold on Audi. As stated, I paid $5500 for this car. It came as a one-owner vehicle that was first leased in 2008 for the [wealthy] family's daughter who later purchased it CPO at the end of her lease. She owned it ever since until I purchased it last week. The car has 91K miles and every record you can imagine from one independent shop and two Audi dealerships. I literally have a book of records, the most recent of which include the timing belt, water pump, etc. Other records show motor mounts, turbo service, carbon removal etc. etc. I haven't even had time to review all of them yet and was satisfied once I saw the timing belt. Matching Goodyear tires all around, recent brakes, etc. This car was ready to go.

After my APR flash, I'm going to have a $6000 range 2008 A4 with all maintenance and in tip-top cosmetic shape. In terms of value, I think anyone would be very hard pressed to get a BMW with similar performance, value and condition. For now, I'm sold on Audi and would highly recommend anyone to look into a well-sorted B7. I can't imagine any other sports sedan value that would compare. I once owned a 2005 Saab 9-3 that had a similar feeling engine, but it didn't hold a candle to the Audi in terms of sophistication and refinement. Once you factor in easy mod potential, and it's no wonder that Audi enjoys such an enthusiast following.

[ballinb5]

Make sure to check[/replace] the cam follower if you haven't already. It's a cheap maintenance item that can cause more damage like hpfp, cam, cam chain etc. if not replaced

[trj]

Nice summary. I disagree with some and I agree with some of your comments.
I came from 2001 330ci sports package to 05.5 Audi A4 Quattro and currently own 2009 328i xdrive coupe.

Comfortable ride: yes, my a4 is comfortable on rough roads because my A4 is stock. But BMW sports seats are much better in holding you in place. Audi stock seats are like a bench unless you go with recaros.

Handling: NO, steering feel is super light and tremendous understeer. You actually known where the front wheels are facing with the BMW. This is on Quattro. I assume front trac would under steer more than Quattro.
Engine: stock per stock, I will take BMW inline 6 anyway of the week. Inline 6 is insanely smooth. 2.0t sounds like a tractor engine.

Mpg: same. I could never get 30+ mpg I was hoping from Audi A4. But it was certainly better than my 330. I could get around 27mpg on my 330, and 29 on my A4 on extended highway drives.

Maintenance: if you are a DIY person, Audi is PITA. I try and do all my maintenance and repairs. The m54 engine on e46s are pretty bullet proof. Cooling system is a weak point though. No need to do tuning belt is a huge plus on the m54 and n52/53 engines. Exploding cam followers are the weak point for Audi.

This is coupe specific: BMW has always given more priority to coupes in terms of equipment. Coupes always are better equipped. Audis are not always better equipped but the standard equipment is ok. E46 had sports package as default, e92 has lighting package and adaptive bixenons as default.

Oil change: b7 takes less than 5 quarts of oil, BMW takes 7 quarts. That alone makes up for price difference. And on Audi the filter is in a terrible place. BMWs have filter on the top of the engine, no mess.

This doesn't relate to your situation since you have front trac. But Quattro hands down against xdrive. But for good weather rear wheel drive hands down against front trac or Quattro.

Price: yes, b7 is a lot cheaper than E90/E92s. I paid more for my b7 because of the color choice, and more for my e92 because of the packages I wanted.

My observations are based on simultaneous ownership of 2001 BMW 330ci, 2005.5 Audi A4 Quattro, 2009 BMW 328i xdrive.
I had 2001 330ci for 6 years. Sold it at 185k miles. Audi, I have had for 2 years(bought with 69k miles and at 98k miles now) 2009 BMW I have had for 4 months(62k miles).

Here is a kicker, I spent more on my b7 mods(no power mods) and maintenance in two years than what I spent on maintaining and modding my e46 in 6 years. Yes this includes my recent turbo blow out. And everything is Diy for me. Probably if you take it to a shop Bmw will be expensive.

Everyone's experience is different with cars. So my case may not be your case. Good luck. Drive what makes you happy. Not the badge. I didn't go for a 335 because of the turbo blow out on my b7. That's how put off I am with the turbo cars right now. Plus I have decided not to keep any German cars above 100k miles. After that it's a constant upkeep and downhill depreciation.
Oh one more point. Audi uses very thin metal in the body. My e46 and b7 parked next to each other, B7 got hail damage worth of 4K repairs, BMW not a single dent. And again hail damage happened this year(not as severe).
Not trying to scare you because you have had experience with BMWs. But my experience with b7 has been kinda up and down. May be I will be back in a TT or a6/a7 just for Quattro. :)



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[LBCB7]

Make sure to check[/replace] the cam follower if you haven't already. It's a cheap maintenance item that can cause more damage like hpfp, cam, cam chain etc. if not replaced

Thanks for the tip! Yes, I caught wind of that issue during my research... I'm pretty sure it's on the receipt with the timing belt replacement, etc. but I'll double-check. I'm actually having Auto Union Tuning in Huntington Beach CA do the APR Stage 1 and oil change this Saturday, so I'll check before then. If not, I'll make sure they do it.

[LBCB7]

Nice summary. I disagree with some and I agree with some of your comments.
I came from 2001 330ci sports package to 05.5 Audi A4 Quattro and currently own 2009 328i xdrive coupe.

Comfortable ride: yes, my a4 is comfortable on rough roads because my A4 is stock. But BMW sports seats are much better in holding you in place. Audi stock seats are like a bench unless you go with recaros.

Handling: NO, steering feel is super light and tremendous understeer. You actually known where the front wheels are facing with the BMW. This is on Quattro. I assume front trac would under steer more than Quattro.
Engine: stock per stock, I will take BMW inline 6 anyway of the week. Inline 6 is insanely smooth. 2.0t sounds like a tractor engine.

Mpg: same. I could never get 30+ mpg I was hoping from Audi A4. But it was certainly better than my 330. I could get around 27mpg on my 330, and 29 on my A4 on extended highway drives.

Maintenance: if you are a DIY person, Audi is PITA. I try and do all my maintenance and repairs. The m54 engine on e46s are pretty bullet proof. Cooling system is a weak point though. No need to do tuning belt is a huge plus on the m54 and n52/53 engines. Exploding cam followers are the weak point for Audi.

This is coupe specific: BMW has always given more priority to coupes in terms of equipment. Coupes always are better equipped. Audis are not always better equipped but the standard equipment is ok. E46 had sports package as default, e92 has lighting package and adaptive bixenons as default.

Oil change: b7 takes less than 5 quarts of oil, BMW takes 7 quarts. That alone makes up for price difference. And on Audi the filter is in a terrible place. BMWs have filter on the top of the engine, no mess.

This doesn't relate to your situation since you have front trac. But Quattro hands down against xdrive. But for good weather rear wheel drive hands down against front trac or Quattro.

Price: yes, b7 is a lot cheaper than E90/E92s. I paid more for my b7 because of the color choice, and more for my e92 because of the packages I wanted.

My observations are based on simultaneous ownership of 2001 BMW 330ci, 2005.5 Audi A4 Quattro, 2009 BMW 328i xdrive.
I had 2001 330ci for 6 years. Sold it at 185k miles. Audi, I have had for 2 years(bought with 69k miles and at 98k miles now) 2009 BMW I have had for 4 months(62k miles).

Here is a kicker, I spent more on my b7 mods(no power mods) and maintenance in two years than what I spent on maintaining and modding my e46 in 6 years. Yes this includes my recent turbo blow out. And everything is Diy for me. Probably if you take it to a shop Bmw will be expensive.

Everyone's experience is different with cars. So my case may not be your case. Good luck. Drive what makes you happy. Not the badge. I didn't go for a 335 because of the turbo blow out on my b7. That's how put off I am with the turbo cars right now. Plus I have decided not to keep any German cars above 100k miles. After that it's a constant upkeep and downhill depreciation.
Oh one more point. Audi uses very thin metal in the body. My e46 and b7 parked next to each other, B7 got hail damage worth of 4K repairs, BMW not a single dent. And again hail damage happened this year(not as severe).
Not trying to scare you because you have had experience with BMWs. But my experience with b7 has been kinda up and down. May be I will be back in a TT or a6/a7 just for Quattro. :)



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I think you have some fair points. I agree that the seats aren't bolstered as well, and I forgot to note that in my summary. Otherwise, I stand on the handling, comfort, etc. One thing I should note--especially when it comes to understeer and such--is that I'm not talking about track driving, etc. I'm talking about handling in my everyday Los Angeles driving. Freeway onramps, offramps, city traffic, etc. In every type of driving I do hear, the A4 has handled better for my purposes. I haven't gone into a hairpin turn at 60 mph or anything like that, and I realize that understeer is a real challenge in a fwd car with weight bias toward the front. However, I'm just talking about my driving experience as opposed to track tests, etc. The doors/sheetmetal is definitely lighter on the A4--I prefer that. This ties into the weight discussion that I referenced. The BMW feels distinctly heavy and almost antique (like an old 50s car) in terms of it's use of heavy materials. On one hand I think this contributes to the bulletproof factor, but on the other hand it gives it a Volvo/tank quality. I prefer the lighter, more agile stature of the Audi. Obviously BMWs are great, and the 3-series is consistently the top pick for "experts." I was just pleasantly surprised to learn, after all these years, that I turned out to be more of an Audi guy. I never imagined that would happen.

[LBCB7]

One update I forgot to mention that really adds to my analysis... Paddle Shifters. I was looking for this option specifically, and whether DSG or not, I have found them fast and effective--exactly what I was looking for as a compromise between slush box and manual. The tranny is far superior to the auto in my BMW, with quicker shifts in the sport mode and the option of paddle shifting, which I actually find useful.

In terms of "light" steering, I have found that to be a myth. Everyone talked about this on all of the forums, and instead, I've found that my steering adjusts to my speed. When I'm in a parking lot it's indeed very light. However, when I'm driving I've found that it stiffens. At highway speed it's just as BMW-stiff as my BMW. I was just talking to my girlfriend about that earlier, as she's a big BMW stiff-steering fan. Furthermore the A4 has a tighter turning radius which has made my city driving much easier. Speaking of city driving, it really affects gas mileage. On the highway the BMW does fine, but most of my driving is city, where the Audi does make a tangible difference in mpg.

[tloft4]

i almost got another beamer instead of my a4 (was gonna get a lexus but it sold while i was on the way to the dealer), when i was in highschool my dad gave me his older 95 525i 5spd and i loved it. luckily at that time he still took care of the big bills but that was when premium was 4.29/gal here so it still hurt.. driving it as irresponsibly as possible i still got comparable mpgs to my a4 (~17 vs 20 city[but like 35 vs 30 highway) i went a4 cause ive always wanted one and if i didnt do it this time i probably wouldnt/couldnt for a while again. things like seatbelt dings, open door+lights screech, "put your foot on the brake" msg are all annoying imo and not very refined german. maintenance costs have been up there but all scheduled, no real surprises yet, but by the sounds they will be pretty close longterm. was never a mercedes fan but the few i drove were not bad but theyd still be last on the list

[trj]

I think you have some fair points. I agree that the seats aren't bolstered as well, and I forgot to note that in my summary. Otherwise, I stand on the handling, comfort, etc. One thing I should note--especially when it comes to understeer and such--is that I'm not talking about track driving, etc. I'm talking about handling in my everyday Los Angeles driving. Freeway onramps, offramps, city traffic, etc. In every type of driving I do hear, the A4 has handled better for my purposes. I haven't gone into a hairpin turn at 60 mph or anything like that, and I realize that understeer is a real challenge in a fwd car with weight bias toward the front. However, I'm just talking about my driving experience as opposed to track tests, etc. The doors/sheetmetal is definitely lighter on the A4--I prefer that. This ties into the weight discussion that I referenced. The BMW feels distinctly heavy and almost antique (like an old 50s car) in terms of it's use of heavy materials. On one hand I think this contributes to the bulletproof factor, but on the other hand it gives it a Volvo/tank quality. I prefer the lighter, more agile stature of the Audi. Obviously BMWs are great, and the 3-series is consistently the top pick for "experts." I was just pleasantly surprised to learn, after all these years, that I turned out to be more of an Audi guy. I never imagined that would happen.

One update I forgot to mention that really adds to my analysis... Paddle Shifters. I was looking for this option specifically, and whether DSG or not, I have found them fast and effective--exactly what I was looking for as a compromise between slush box and manual. The tranny is far superior to the auto in my BMW, with quicker shifts in the sport mode and the option of paddle shifting, which I actually find useful.

In terms of "light" steering, I have found that to be a myth. Everyone talked about this on all of the forums, and instead, I've found that my steering adjusts to my speed. When I'm in a parking lot it's indeed very light. However, when I'm driving I've found that it stiffens. At highway speed it's just as BMW-stiff as my BMW. I was just talking to my girlfriend about that earlier, as she's a big BMW stiff-steering fan. Furthermore the A4 has a tighter turning radius which has made my city driving much easier. Speaking of city driving, it really affects gas mileage. On the highway the BMW does fine, but most of my driving is city, where the Audi does make a tangible difference in mpg.

As I said earlier, different people have different choices on the cars and their feel. I dont track any of my cars, but I prefer oversteer to understeer in everyday driving. I am not sure how you got B7 to turn tighter than e46, but RWD will run circles if needed. The car is physically larger and has longer wheel base(I guess). Nose dive during braking is another of my B7 issues, that upsets the balance of the car. Front trac cars do not have rear wheels pushing the car at turns thats the best part of quattro which makes it feel so planted.
People here do the 640 mod to make the steering heavier. You prefer lighter steering, which is absolutely fine.
When you say transmission is awesome, thats because you have CVT in your car. Please take good care of that transmission. Read up a little more on CVT on B7s. I am not saying any one of the cars are better, your choice is as good as mine. But the particular model B7 you have needs a little more attention than the quattro equipped ones. Good luck.