Anyone have the APR specs on the new B9 S4?

[db12]

noticed that the new turbo B9 s4 is almost 500 lbs lighter than our tanks. Does anyone know if APR has been working on a tune for this vehicle? I wonder if they will be able to get the same increase in power output with a Turbo vs supercharger?

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

With a turbo it's even easier vs supercharger in terms of capable output for ANY car. That said, I heard 2 weeks and we'll know something.

[whiped]

With a turbo it's even easier vs supercharger in terms of capable output for ANY car. That said, I heard 2 weeks and we'll know something.

+1, the ceiling for turbos is higher and they are more generally considered more -tuner friendly-

I heard 2 weeks as well

[Silverbullet S4]

B9 should be a beast if it has the internals to hold up. Just look at what they've already done with the little S3!

.....2 weeks....lol

[cspcrx]

I cannot imagine they are not working on something. But I did not hear two weeks. I heard Boost Season.

[db12]

With a turbo it's even easier vs supercharger in terms of capable output for ANY car. That said, I heard 2 weeks and we'll know something.

The tune increases seem to be car dependent as ours almost jumps 100 crank hp tuned with pulley vs say the RS models gets you nothing. The a4 etc gets you half of that. If they can squeeze 100 hp increase out of the new B9 ill be impressed. That will be a quick car

[B8_Jim]

noticed that the new turbo B9 s4 is almost 500 lbs lighter than our tanks.

You have a source for that? For the A5/S5 Road and Track has "Audi says up to 132.3 lbs lighter depending on the trim", and I'd be shocked if '4s are that much better than the '5s.

[xpoweruk]

The B9 S4 hasnt lost much if any weight,it still weighs in at 1630kg for the saloon
https://www.audi.co.uk/content/dam/a...cGuides/a4.pdf Page 66

[LittleDozer]

The tune increases seem to be car dependent as ours almost jumps 100 crank hp tuned with pulley vs say the RS models gets you nothing. The a4 etc gets you half of that. If they can squeeze 100 hp increase out of the new B9 ill be impressed. That will be a quick car

Yeah but look at the WTQ gain

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...i_gen3_b9.html

[db12]

You have a source for that? For the A5/S5 Road and Track has "Audi says up to 132.3 lbs lighter depending on the trim", and I'd be shocked if '4s are that much better than the '5s.

Not sure which site quoted that, just searched again for it and car and driver put it at 3,700 lbs. Which would be trim dependent

[Lensch09]

Considering the car is not available yet in the US (where APRs engineering staff resides), I highly doubt that they have much of anything cooking...

Maybe they should start another 105+ page disappointment over in the B9 A4/S4 specific forum?

-DL

[db12]

Considering the car is not available yet in the US (where APRs engineering staff resides), I highly doubt that they have much of anything cooking...

Maybe they should start another 105+ page disappointment over in the B9 A4/S4 specific forum?

-DL

That doesn't seem to stop them as they have been working on the new TTRS for a while now. Over 600 hp tune on that one...lol

[LittleDozer]

Considering the car is not available yet in the US (where APRs engineering staff resides), I highly doubt that they have much of anything cooking...

Maybe they should start another 105+ page disappointment over in the B9 A4/S4 specific forum?

-DL

Yeah I heard Stage 1 is 2 weeks into boost season 2017

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

The tune increases seem to be car dependent as ours almost jumps 100 crank hp tuned with pulley vs say the RS models gets you nothing. The a4 etc gets you half of that. If they can squeeze 100 hp increase out of the new B9 ill be impressed. That will be a quick car

So you're telling me that you can't gain 100HP from a Stage 2 turbo car? OK.... not. Stage 2 on a turbo car is flash and downpipe. On most, that's an easy 100HP gain. And as the other poster has said, look at the TQ gains with that. But what I was also saying is that it's easier to gain power and manage those gains on turbo cars. You're kinda stuck with superchargers because you can only do so much and cooling is much harder on supercharged cars. Traditionally, intercooling turbo cars was easy... Audi of course has kinda hosed us on that because even their new turbo cars are now liquid to air intercooled, which sucks ass in my opinion.

[4Rings3Liters]

So far I think APR is a joke and wouldn't go with them unless something mind blowing came out. Their whole boost season BS put it over the top for me.

[Dippy]

I found this article an interesting read. If the CR has been raised then this will limit how much the boost can be increased without extra work to avoid knocking, especially if that's already been compensated for by the valvelift. However no doubt if tuners can get around that it looks easy to uprate the turbo - although will heat become an issue (as it always does)? Also remember that this engine has a new ECU which the tuners need to crack. How long did it take tuners to crack the SIMOS 8.4, and then the 8.5? The latest SIMOS 16 has not been cracked yet, 2.5 years after introduction. And finally this is a new engine design with unproven reliability. Not that Audi has been known to put cars into production with design errors, but maybe this new engine might have weak points which might become more vulnerable after a tune? What's that "TD1" thing I keep reading about?

[db12]

So you're telling me that you can't gain 100HP from a Stage 2 turbo car? OK.... not. Stage 2 on a turbo car is flash and downpipe. On most, that's an easy 100HP gain. And as the other poster has said, look at the TQ gains with that. But what I was also saying is that it's easier to gain power and manage those gains on turbo cars. You're kinda stuck with superchargers because you can only do so much and cooling is much harder on supercharged cars. Traditionally, intercooling turbo cars was easy... Audi of course has kinda hosed us on that because even their new turbo cars are now liquid to air intercooled, which sucks ass in my opinion.

No Im not saying you cant gain that. I was simply stating that the amount of gain that can be squeezed out of these cars with a tune is based on the car itself. Perfect example is the RS models, the most you can increase is 18 crank hp. I hope your right about the B9 S4 being an under performer and a tuned monster ;)

[LittleDozer]

No Im not saying you cant gain that. I was simply stating that the amount of gain that can be squeezed out of these cars with a tune is based on the car itself. Perfect example is the RS models, the most you can increase is 18 crank hp. I hope your right about the B9 S4 being an under performer and a tuned monster ;)

You understand the difference between tuning a naturally aspirated versus forced induction car right?

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

You understand the difference between tuning a naturally aspirated versus forced induction car right?

I was wondering the same thing when I read his first response, but surely no one's gonna make that mistake... Even the newer RS models that are FI have considerable gains on them.

[LittleDozer]

I was wondering the same thing when I read his first response, but surely no one's gonna make that mistake... Even the newer RS models that are FI have considerable gains on them.

You'd be surprised. Having money for car+tune doesn't mean people know how things work :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[whiped]

You'd be surprised. Having money for car+tune doesn't mean people know how things work :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It amazes me how many people are modifying their cars blindly.

They just throw money at it without taking the time to do proper research or diagnostics.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

You'd be surprised. Having money for car+tune doesn't mean people know how things work :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have a point and I guess I always think that people on car forums or those with tuned cars actually know their shit and do it because they love it and not just because. Hell, half the time I'm amazed at how many on here do stuff to their cars and don't actually do the work themselves. Kinda defeats the purpose of modding a car in my opinion.

[AvusPdx]

If the European release dates were sooner than US, an APR rep can go to Europe to study the tuning for the new engine. There may already have tunes in Europe that APR can piggy back as well. This happened for the FRS platform, since Japans GT86 release was a year early, and many companies already had the specs for making parts in the US. Within a month of release, there was a shit ton of parts for that car.

[Thurston]

B9 should be a beast if it has the internals to hold up. Just look at what they've already done with the little S3!

.....2 weeks....lol

i must admit the thought of audi splurging and forging the internals like bmw did w/ the s55 would just be super duper.

[jlaudio]

It amazes me how many people are modifying their cars blindly.

They just throw money at it without taking the time to do proper research or diagnostics.

It amazes me that you think people turn their own wrenches on b8/8.5 s4's. I know a plurality of people here do but your average middle upper class Joe cannot be bothered.

I spend hours of research on every aftermarket part that goes on my car as I'm sure you do; the girlfriend thinks I am obsessive. Please don't take as a personal attack it's just something I've noticed since I bought my b8 in 2012.

[whiped]

It amazes me that you think people turn their own wrenches on b8/8.5 s4's. I know a plurality of people here do but your average middle upper class Joe cannot be bothered.

I spend hours of research on every aftermarket part that goes on my car as I'm sure you do; the girlfriend thinks I am obsessive. Please don't take as a personal attack it's just something I've noticed since I bought my b8 in 2012.

No worries, my comment was aimed towards the enthusiasts

Anyone going off the beaten path really. It's one thing to throw money at an off-the-shelf solution that is supported.

It's a completely different thing to throw money at plugs, pumps, injectors, tunes where the problem all along was bad gas (Not aimed towards anyone, just an example)

[LittleDozer]

No worries, my comment was aimed towards the enthusiasts

Anyone going off the beaten path really. It's one thing to throw money at an off-the-shelf solution that is supported.

It's a completely different thing to throw money at plugs, pumps, injectors, tunes where the problem all along was bad gas (Not aimed towards anyone, just an example)

Ha, yeah someone said they were going to buy a new fuel pump because at 6k RPM the car felt like it needed more fuel to go faster.

No logs, no codes, no CEL etc etc.

B8.5s still cost a decent chunk of change. As they go down in value more of your average wrenchers will get them and we'll see more people tearing things apart ~for science~.


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[bhvrdr]

No worries, my comment was aimed towards the enthusiasts

Anyone going off the beaten path really. It's one thing to throw money at an off-the-shelf solution that is supported.

It's a completely different thing to throw money at plugs, pumps, injectors, tunes where the problem all along was bad gas (Not aimed towards anyone, just an example)

While db12 may have said it for the wrong reasons or whatever he makes a decent point about turbos and ease of getting power.


With Audi, they generally dont oversize the turbos they put on their cars. They want them to provide good response and torque so they size them pretty well. This tends to limit the head room on the stock turbos that go on audi cars. You can gain huge torque but 1/4 mile times come from horsepower. Without doing a turbo upgrade, you are somewhat limited. Seeing as 90% of folks who buy the B9 are not going to be putting on a new turbo in their brand new car you are stuck with software upgrades and possibly downpipes (although most would likely not do downpipes to a brand new car either).

With the supercharged B8/B8.5 you can take the car from 333hp to around 475hp without ever changing anything but two pulleys (really only the crank pulley needed since you can go 200+mm). You arent picking up 140hp of top end on any stock turbo Audi cars that I know of without some significant hardware changes. Even the S6 is advertised to pick up about 90chp on 93 octane on the stage 1 stuff at around 5000rpm or so. The S4 picks up significantly more than that.

Now you start swapping turbos and the sky is the limit with turbo cars. You can make tons more power very easily but with the stock turbos, i'm not betting on it.

Just my uneducated guess right now since the B9 is not here yet.

Mike

[KnewJack]

While db12 may have said it for the wrong reasons or whatever he makes a decent point about turbos and ease of getting power.


With Audi, they generally dont oversize the turbos they put on their cars. They want them to provide good response and torque so they size them pretty well. This tends to limit the head room on the stock turbos that go on audi cars. You can gain huge torque but 1/4 mile times come from horsepower. Without doing a turbo upgrade, you are somewhat limited. Seeing as 90% of folks who buy the B9 are not going to be putting on a new turbo in their brand new car you are stuck with software upgrades and possibly downpipes (although most would likely not do downpipes to a brand new car either).

With the supercharged B8/B8.5 you can take the car from 333hp to around 475hp without ever changing anything but two pulleys (really only the crank pulley needed since you can go 200+mm). You arent picking up 140hp of top end on any stock turbo Audi cars that I know of without some significant hardware changes. Even the S6 is advertised to pick up about 90chp on 93 octane on the stage 1 stuff at around 5000rpm or so. The S4 picks up significantly more than that.

Now you start swapping turbos and the sky is the limit with turbo cars. You can make tons more power very easily but with the stock turbos, i'm not betting on it.

Just my uneducated guess right now since the B9 is not here yet.

Mike

That's seem to be the trend with turbocharged German cars. Great low end response, but limited top end on stock turbo. A turbo that makes max torque at 1700rpm is great around town but limit high rpm power. A VGT would be a nice improvement, but I don't know of any Audi that utilize that technology.

[jnicho1]

[1ben1245]

noticed that the new turbo B9 s4 is almost 500 lbs lighter than our tanks. Does anyone know if APR has been working on a tune for this vehicle? I wonder if they will be able to get the same increase in power output with a Turbo vs supercharger?

So i actually spoke to some guys at unitronic at water fest this year and they said they are currently testing it with an output figure of 600HP(STAGE 1). I personally don't know how much boost they are running but the final numbers will most likely be alot lower for engine ware and reliability of drivetrain. Still i think its safe to expect around 500-600 on stage 1.

[FromRagsToS4]

+250hp.....on stage 1...... right

[xpoweruk]

ABT claim 425 HP 550 NM on the stage 1 box
MTM claim 400 HP 550 NM on the stage 1 box

Those figures are usually pretty close to what a flashed tune ends up with

[Thurston]

the ecu has not been cracked and may never be from what i've read... it's a rather scary situation and frankly it's looking like the chipwerke/juice box/dtuk type finagling will be all that works for the foreseeable future. Good news though w/ the zf 8speed being in like e v e r y t h i n g ... a tcu tune should be readily available.


bosch mg1 ... super max encryption on all levels. Everyone is looking for the crackers to crack it and they are struggling mightily from the ecu forums i peruse. if i'm wrong please please tell me! i want to be wrong; and if you can crack it... i bet you could charge 6 figures selling to apr.

[Loe]

I hope COBB and BurgerTuning jumps into the "B" platform, they love ethanol, downpipes, fueling upgrades, and CAN-bus access or similar features.

[pdqgp]

My Dual Pulley S4 will be more fun and likely faster than the B9 S4 for IMO at least another 2 years. Not only will the B9 market have to wait until something is actually available and proven with the latter being more critical since not only is the new platform unproven but then the tuner products will be net-new as well.

Not saying down the road it won't be great fun, but until then, most will be stock B9's or at the most a B9 with a mild tune that might be equiv. to a stage 1 tune on our platform.

Now I'm off to do something no B9 owners are going to do today......drive a fairly stout S4

[BlueSVT]

One of the reasons I bought a CPO 2015, was because I have heard the new ECUs may be impossible to crack.

[MrFunk]

One of the reasons I bought a CPO 2015, was because I have heard the new ECUs may be impossible to crack.

This.

I was out at AWE Tuning last year chatting with the owner... he said the tuning business is going to the wind because with all the increasing regulations etc it's becoming very difficult to not only crack ECU's but the legalities around it are more and more strict.

[Thurston]

the rs3 ecu is supposedly made to be cracked ;) i'm exaggerating a little bit but that's the impression i've picked up.. seems that may be where the die hards should go next

[jonwoods]

The B9 has a reverse flow engine too so the turbo sits in the V. It will be a challenge to just stuff an arbitrarily large turbo in there.

I've always wondered why the newer ECUs are locked down. What is the point if any modifications to the software just immediately voids a warantee anyway? Just let people have at it. Perhaps manufacturers don't want anybody seeing their special engine management sauce. It won't be long before a tune means "replace the entire ECU"...