B6 3.0-Specific Thread

[Nollywood]

When it comes to the 3.0 B6, not much love is shown. Indeed, there's not much out there in terms of engine mods, 3.0 cars are kind of limited to bolt-on aesthetics.

I thought I'd just throw this out here - a thread specifically for the 3.0 guys. Despite the limited performance options, I'm sure there are owners who've tried different ways of gaining a few horses, and wouldn't mind sharing their experiences. Let's see what's out there!

Sure, the B6 non-3.0 may have the advantage of massive aftermarket support, including massive power hike options, but us 3.0 guys know this:

The 3.0 is quicker than a stock 1.8T 150 / 163.
The 3.0 makes more power than all stock 1.8T's.
The 3.0 is more reliable - less jack-stand queens.
The 3.0 motor looks nicer in the engine bay.
The 3.0 motor sounds nicer than a 1.8T, silky smooth, even at high rpm.

It just needs more grunt!

So come on, guys - mods, DIY's, anything 3.0-related, let's see it all!

[MurkyRivers_A4]

1.8T>3.0 /thread :)

[Nollywood]

1.8T>3.0 /thread :)

Grrrrr!

[SJorge3442]

1.8T>3.0 /thread :)

Typical 1.8 guy. Must have never seen this JHM video, have you?



3 liter pulls on a Stage 2+ 1.8 with just a tune and downpipes.


Anyway, Nolly, there's a few people writing custom tunes out there (Kompresd being on of them and Zimbu being the other) that have been squeezing more from the 3.0. Unfortunately, with it being N/A, there's just not that much more to gain. Everyone says the downpipes makes the biggest difference and then the flywheel comes next. I have a Kompresd ECU i run from time to time, but I realy wanna give Zimbu's a go too. Hes been tweeking it for about a year and a half now and really nows his stuff too.

[blitz2190]

1.8T>3.0 /thread :)

2.7T B6>1.8T>3.0

Fixed it for ya :)

as for the 3.0 there was once a super charger kit, and if you where dead set on power gains and had someone that can tune you could try something like a procharger, basically a super charger but remote mounted and plumbed likea turbo.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

2.7T B6>1.8T>3.0

Fixed it for ya :)

I was gonna go there but didn't cause was just playing with Nolly, which I'm sure he knows.

Apparently I'm a typical 1.8t guy and my attempt at getting panties wadded up was successful.

[Nollywood]

Thanks for your input, Jorge.

I'm saying this, and probably not much will come out of this - I'm keen to find the break-point on a boosted 3.0 motor. I've got a spare engine, and I'm willing to put it to the test. I've been speaking to a shop, with regards to 9.3:1 forged pistons. I'm referring to snail too, not a supercharger.

It doesn't matter if it goes bang. I'll try my best to keep it together, if I really get into some R&D. I'll just keep turning up the wick, until something breaks, just want to see what the 3.0 motor will take, with forged pistons, and a separate piggy-back ECU to control boost. This will most likely be with a rough, basket-case B6, not my daily, so it'll be dispensable.

I probably won't touch this until summer, and I'm in the middle of a house move too. But yeah, this is my plan.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Thanks for your input, Jorge.

I'm saying this, and probably not much will come out of this - I'm keen to find the break-point on a boosted 3.0 motor. I've got a spare engine, and I'm willing to put it to the test. I've been speaking to a shop, with regards to 9.3:1 forged pistons. I'm referring to snail too, not a supercharger.

I probably won't touch this until summer, and I'm in the middle of a house move too. But yeah, this is my plan.

Shouldnt you be able to mount the 2.7T turbos and manifolds to the 3.0 engine?

[Nollywood]

Shouldnt you be able to mount the 2.7T turbos and manifolds to the 3.0 engine?

Yes, this could be done. But, it's the internals that are important, together with controlling it all.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Yes, this could be done. But, it's the internals that are important, together with controlling it all.

At that point, especially since your in Europe, find yourself an RS4 2.7 and call it a day.

[Nollywood]

At that point, especially since your in Europe, find yourself an RS4 2.7 and call it a day.

Yes, but this isn't what this thread is all about. The same way, 1.8T owners chasing 400whp could find themselves B6 S4's, and call it a day. Not everyone is prepared to junk their cars, and not every 3.0 owners is in Europe.

Besides, the 3.0 motor in a B6 isn't really my goal. This is for sharing ways of increasing output from the 3.0 V6, without an engine swap, sharing benefits the Audi community.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Yes, but this isn't what this thread is all about. The same way, 1.8T owners chasing 400whp could find themselves B6 S4's, and call it a day. Not everyone is prepared to junk their cars, and not every 3.0 owners is in Europe.

Besides, the 3.0 motor in a B6 isn't really my goal. This is for sharing ways of increasing output from the 3.0 V6, without an engine swap, sharing benefits the Audi community.

Ah ok. Let's be honest though, once you swap internals, slap on turbos, your basically ending up with a stroked 2.7t. Which, if you go 2.7t from the beginning, may actually be a cheaper end result .

Carry on though, I will exclude myself from the thread.

[blitz2190]

Thanks for your input, Jorge.

I'm saying this, and probably not much will come out of this - I'm keen to find the break-point on a boosted 3.0 motor. I've got a spare engine, and I'm willing to put it to the test. I've been speaking to a shop, with regards to 9.3:1 forged pistons. I'm referring to snail too, not a supercharger.

It doesn't matter if it goes bang. I'll try my best to keep it together, if I really get into some R&D. I'll just keep turning up the wick, until something breaks, just want to see what the 3.0 motor will take, with forged pistons, and a separate piggy-back ECU to control boost. This will most likely be with a rough, basket-case B6, not my daily, so it'll be dispensable.

I probably won't touch this until summer, and I'm in the middle of a house move too. But yeah, this is my plan.

It would be interesting but to me just seems like a rather large waste of money, I wouldn't bother with internals and just go with a conservative amount of boost, if your going to put that much money into a block for internals i would spend it on something that will actually hold up to the heat, that aluminum block was never meant for it and would be like throwing money in a fire. but its your car if you do go through with the mods to the 3.0 post it so we can see.

[Nollywood]

Ah ok. Let's be honest though, once you swap internals, slap on turbos, your basically ending up with a stroked 2.7t. Which, if you go 2.7t from the beginning, may actually be a cheaper end result .

Carry on though, I will exclude myself from the thread.

Relax, Murky. No one's excluding you, or anyone else. This thread is about everything 3.0 V6, so anything from a chip, to transmission swaps, to other engine mods, even suspension.

It wasn't my intention to exclude you, and if you felt that way, I apologise. Everyone's views are valid, even if they're from the dark side - 1.8T owners.

[Nollywood]

Point taken, Blitz. By internals, I'm referring to just the pistons. The G3 kits have been eating the stock cast pistons since their inception.

Yeah, the 2.7T is a viable option, but only if the local market permits engine swaps. There are a number of European markets that do not allow engine swaps, unless they were an option in a particular chassis.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Relax, Murky. No one's excluding you, or anyone else. This thread is about everything 3.0 V6, so anything from a chip, to transmission swaps, to other engine mods, even suspension.

It wasn't my intention to exclude you, and if you felt that way, I apologise. Everyone's views are valid, even if they're from the dark side - 1.8T owners.

No not at all. I know nothing about the 3.0's and therefore have no value to add :) Im leaning more about the 2.7t swaps as I am in the process of going that route now.

If that comes up again, Ill jump back in :)

[Protection]

2.7T B6>1.8T>3.0

Fixed it for ya :)

I have one of each currently, and fully agree. Of course the 2.7t is stage 3 so not really a fair comparison.

I picked up the 3.0 last month, and have to say I was really surprised by the lack of info and DIYs out there for this engine. I was flying blind removing the downpipes. In retrospect, since the car needed so much other attention, I wish I had just pulled the motor. Also, everything I could find said I could bolt a B6 S4 exhaust right to my downpipes--perfect fit. Not true. Pipes wound up being 4 inches too short. I think the 3.0 in Europe must be using secondary cats like the 2.7t.

With the 2.7t, there are tons of posts, documents, DIYs, Spreadsheets with torque values for everything you could imagine.


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[Nollywood]

Protection, you're right. The Euro B6 3.0 runs pre-CATS, just like the 2.7T.

[Ryanleif]

I'm very curious of this as well I have a 3.0l with a pes G3 sc. It feels to me like it pulls pretty good but after 70000kms the motor popped and I am now replacing with another 3.0l the sc is going back on because my computer won't run a non sc motor and I have no imobolizer in the car so a newer stock ecu won't work either. Fingers crossed I won't blow this motor and hoping to find out next week if my blown motor was hurt before I purchased the car

[Nollywood]

I'm very curious of this as well I have a 3.0l with a pes G3 sc. It feels to me like it pulls pretty good but after 70000kms the motor popped and I am now replacing with another 3.0l the sc is going back on because my computer won't run a non sc motor and I have no imobolizer in the car so a newer stock ecu won't work either. Fingers crossed I won't blow this motor and hoping to find out next week if my blown motor was hurt before I purchased the car

Do you know what boost your engine was running? Stock compression, or dropped a few points with stacked head gaskets?

[Ryanleif]

Do you know what boost your engine was running? Stock compression, or dropped a few points with stacked head gaskets?

I honestly have no idea bought the car this way but I am gonna crack the old motor open and see what happened. From all the research I've done I think pes superchargers were a straight bolt on don't have a boost gauge but gonna invest in one now. From what I have read about these systems is they are any where from 5-9 pounds of boost. It's suppose to give the car about 330hp with the charger and computer tune. I know the super charger is a eaton mp62 with a modified nose cone to line up the serpentine belt.

[Spike00513]

Not everyone is prepared to junk their cars, and not every 3.0 owners is in Europe.

But every 3.0 owner in US has access to 2.7T, and usually ends up going that way. Just saying.

It would be interesting but to me just seems like a rather large waste of money, I wouldn't bother with internals and just go with a conservative amount of boost, if your going to put that much money into a block for internals i would spend it on something that will actually hold up to the heat, that aluminum block was never meant for it and would be like throwing money in a fire. but its your car if you do go through with the mods to the 3.0 post it so we can see.

Isn't 2.7T a strong iron block?
The new 2.7L TT eco-boost (direct injected) in the new Ford Fusion is iron block

[EuroxS4]

3.0 is the worst and absolute most unreliable engine audi has ever produced.Look at prices on 1.8T and prices on 3.0 a4.A4 with 3.0 engines are cheaper.More problems,issues and so on.

Sorry dont mean to knock the thread but just stating the obvious turbo engines are easier to modify and extract extra power from whereas N/A engines are limited to bolt ons and the power gains are not significant without spending tons of money.

[Nollywood]

3.0 is the worst and absolute most unreliable engine audi has ever produced.Look at prices on 1.8T and prices on 3.0 a4.A4 with 3.0 engines are cheaper.More problems,issues and so on.

Unreliable? Audi's worst engine? In what sense? I'm really interested, this is news to me.

The A4 3.0 residuals are lower, not due to unreliability issues, more to do with like most large capacity engines - gas mileage, and insurance costs. It's not just an Audi thing, it's a global issue. The larger an engine, the faster used prices plummet, compared to the same model with a smaller engine.

But, this isn't about the A4 1.8T vs 3.0 V6. It's about modifications, and fixes for the B6 A4 3.0.

[Nollywood]

Sorry dont mean to knock the thread but just stating the obvious turbo engines are easier to modify and extract extra power from whereas N/A engines are limited to bolt ons and the power gains are not significant without spending tons of money.

No need to apologise, Eurox.

But, lack of easy bolt-on mods doesn't drop an engine into the worst, or most unreliable category. As a daily driver, the B6 3.0 is a reliable, competent cruiser, and less prone to sludge, and oil pump failure.

[EuroxS4]

Unreliable? Audi's worst engine? In what sense? I'm really interested, this is news to me.

The A4 3.0 residuals are lower, not due to unreliability issues, more to do with like most large capacity engines - gas mileage, and insurance costs. It's not just an Audi thing, it's a global issue. The larger an engine, the faster used prices plummet, compared to the same model with a smaller engine.

But, this isn't about the A4 1.8T vs 3.0 V6. It's about modifications, and fixes for the B6 A4 3.0.

Maybe not the worst engine but one of the wort engines made by audi..Off the top of my head 3.0 engines variable valve timing assembles are known to fail.Oil leaks galore from every orfice possible.Catalytic converters are common.Torque converters are common as are oxygen sensors.Let's see valve cover gaskets piss,water pumps piss,power steering pumps fail,power steering racks.Rear coolant pipe between the head piss all the time.So far thats all I got.But there is plenty that fails on the 3.0 engine lets not kid ourselves.Especially when comparing to 1.8T.Yes 1.8T have some similar issues but overall no where near as much trouble as a 3.0.I'd take a 1.8T with 200k miles over a 3.0 with 100k miles on it any day of the week.My current 1.8T has over 320k documented miles on it still running strong.I've had the car since 60k miles.Original engine.Original catalytic converter,oxygen sensors,power steering rack,pump,coolant pipes.Long story short the 3.0 sucks the money right out of your pocket.Thats why most people prefer the 1.8T.Hell a simple reflash will yield better results than a 3.0.I'm being honest cause I work in the field.

Yes any 6 cylinder engine will run and idle smoother than 4 cylinder engine without a doubt.

Oil sludge was only an issues because of the 10k miles oil change interval and subpar oil being used or not being change with quality oil that meet the specs.There is no reason for a car to go 10k miles without an oil change regardless of oil type.

I run full synthetic in my 1.8T and still change it every 3k miles. or every 3 months.

[Nollywood]

My first B6 Avant 3.0 Quattro Tip had 543,000 miles, and was still on the original engine. No leaks, no failures. The transmission shifted great, though occasionally initial engagement in the morning was delayed. Not because it was a 3.0L, more because the ATF had never been replaced.

Power steering pump and rack failure? I don't get this. These are the same on both 1.8T and 3.0 models. So are oxygen sensors.

VVT assemblies can fail, sure. I've not come across any, as yet, though. 1.8T engines have been known to shed the vibration damper keyway, which if the owner's unlucky, can damage the nose of the crank, or worse.

I too am from an Audi background, having worked as an Audi Master Tech for 13 years, Volkswagen Master Tech for 5 years, and a Volkswagen Commercial Senior Tech for 3. I have no doubt you know your onions, but in this game, you need to be impartial, and not turn a thread into an engine comparison one.

[EuroxS4]

I agree.However they keyway on the crank shaft normally shears with highly modified 4 cylinder engines,mostly due to the lack of a correct vibration dampner to begin with.This issue does not occur on stock or mildly modded 4 cylinder engines.I dont believe the pumps are the same,racks might be but pumps I dont think so.Not trying to turn the thread into comparison.Just stating that opinions vary and very few people in the states at least would rather have a 1.8t over a 3.0 engine.The engine was good for its time.But as stated kinda underpowered for the displacement.

As faar as modification go.Not alot were modified.Theres only so much you can do.Exhaust,intake,possibly cams if you can find a set,maybe some nitrous.Other than that lots of $$$ to modify.

[imnuts]

I forget who, but someone did do a built 3.0 a long, long, long time ago. There was very little that I found posted about it other than a few random mentions. They kept the N/A engine, just upgraded the internals. I think the person eventually went to the PES supercharger.

There was also a one off TT 3.0 in Europe that there is/was a video with details on somewhere.

From threads that I've read over the years, the internals are failure point #1, and the block is right behind at #2. It's why going to a 2.7T is a better option as that engine can withstand a lot more than ours.

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[Nollywood]

PAS vane pumps are the same, just different mounting brackets.

[Protection]

[/QUOTE]Long story short the 3.0 sucks the money right out of your pocket.Thats why most people prefer the 1.8T....[/QUOTE]

Damn, the 2.7t must be the "Dyson" of Audi engines then.

In all fairness, I have very little experience with the 3.0 other than the last month of replacing nearly everything, including power steering pump, steering rack, timing belt, cats, exhaust etc...on a ridiculously cheap A4 I picked up. The power steering pump is the same ZF pump as from my 2.7t, the rack I removed was the same ZF rack as my 1.8t. The valve cover gaskets on every Audi including my 2.7t seem to fail after a short interval. (And yes I always torque to factory spec--10nm)

My biggest gripe about the 3.0 is what a pain in the ass it is to get to everything. I wasn't expecting it to be like my B5 S4, where every task begins with, "first remove engine from vehicle". Simply removing the intake manifold and all those tiny inaccessible coolant lines from the throttle body took me over an hour. I'm sure there are shortcuts, but I could not find a good DIY after an extensive search.

I just picked up my plates today, so I can't even give a comparison to the 1.8t. It does sound meaner (factory S4 exhaust--non flapper model) than my 1.8 with a Borla system.


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[imnuts]

Maybe not the worst engine but one of the wort engines made by audi..Off the top of my head 3.0 engines variable valve timing assembles are known to fail.Oil leaks galore from every orfice possible.Catalytic converters are common.Torque converters are common as are oxygen sensors.Let's see valve cover gaskets piss,water pumps piss,power steering pumps fail,power steering racks.Rear coolant pipe between the head piss all the time.So far thats all I got.But there is plenty that fails on the 3.0 engine lets not kid ourselves.Especially when comparing to 1.8T.Yes 1.8T have some similar issues but overall no where near as much trouble as a 3.0.I'd take a 1.8T with 200k miles over a 3.0 with 100k miles on it any day of the week.My current 1.8T has over 320k documented miles on it still running strong.I've had the car since 60k miles.Original engine.Original catalytic converter,oxygen sensors,power steering rack,pump,coolant pipes.Long story short the 3.0 sucks the money right out of your pocket.Thats why most people prefer the 1.8T.Hell a simple reflash will yield better results than a 3.0.I'm being honest cause I work in the field.

Yes any 6 cylinder engine will run and idle smoother than 4 cylinder engine without a doubt.

Oil sludge was only an issues because of the 10k miles oil change interval and subpar oil being used or not being change with quality oil that meet the specs.There is no reason for a car to go 10k miles without an oil change regardless of oil type.

I run full synthetic in my 1.8T and still change it every 3k miles. or every 3 months.

Of all the supposed "common" failures you list, the catalytic converter is the only common one that I've ever seen anyone post about here. Typically the leaking valve cover gaskets are due to a cracked PCV pipe or failed valve, the same thing that plenty of 1.8T users have the same issue with.

I've had one coolant hose get replaced so far and am at 220k miles. No water pump leaks, just recently got my first O2 sensor code. No weeping gaskets or power steering issues. I have also changed my oil every 10k miles since I've gotten it (at 47k miles >9 years ago), and when my timing belt was last changed, there were no issues with the cams, the only other issue that has been well documented here. Say what you will about the engine, but there are far fewer issues that 3.0 users have than 1.8T users based on threads posted here and elsewhere.

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[DarkoNova]

So all these "common failures" listed are typical wear items used on both engines. Obviously wear items are going to need to be replaced. Do you complain when your tires have to be replaced?

The only thing I've really seen people complain about on 3.0's is the intake changeover valve.

But 1.8T guys, I've seen complaints about the diverter valve, coolant flange, and countless other 1.8 specific items.

Just sounds like 1.8T guys coming in and trying to make themselves feel better about their engine choice.

[blitz2190]

But every 3.0 owner in US has access to 2.7T, and usually ends up going that way. Just saying.



Isn't 2.7T a strong iron block?
The new 2.7L TT eco-boost (direct injected) in the new Ford Fusion is iron block

it is indeed my comment was on the 3.0 which is an aluminum block, not designed for much more power than it already makes.

[Protection]

Look, whether your B6 is a 1.8t, 3.0, 4.2 or even if you started life as a 1.8t, but never felt completely comfortable as a 1.8t and converted to a 2.7t. We are all part of the same family, and it is our love of products from Ingolstadt that binds us together--for better or worse.

[EuroxS4]

So all these "common failures" listed are typical wear items used on both engines. Obviously wear items are going to need to be replaced. Do you complain when your tires have to be replaced?

The only thing I've really seen people complain about on 3.0's is the intake changeover valve.

But 1.8T guys, I've seen complaints about the diverter valve, coolant flange, and countless other 1.8 specific items.

Just sounds like 1.8T guys coming in and trying to make themselves feel better about their engine choice.

Sorry but I didnt know a variable valve timing assembly is a wear item.Please point out where in the service manual it states a interval for replacement??I never said the 1.8t was perfect all I said was it easier to modify and a better engine overall.

Im very happy about engine choice I'm also very happy that I dont have to deal with a 3.0 engine that is a pain in the ass to do anything on.PLease don't cry.Its supposed to be fun thread your just turning it into a sideshow now.

[All_Euro]

it is indeed my comment was on the 3.0 which is an aluminum block, not designed for much more power than it already makes.

Is this a different aluminum alloy from the 4.2L V8 that’s in the B6 S4’s?... those seem to hold up alright. Maybe this V6 has some rigidity issues inherent to the block design?

Replacing the pistons, or even rods, in the 3.0 V6 would be on par with the standard BT 1.8 build - kind of comes with the territory.

[DarkoNova]

Sorry but I didnt know a variable valve timing assembly is a wear item.Please point out where in the service manual it states a interval for replacement??I never said the 1.8t was perfect all I said was it easier to modify and a better engine overall.

Im very happy about engine choice I'm also very happy that I dont have to deal with a 3.0 engine that is a pain in the ass to do anything on.PLease don't cry.Its supposed to be fun thread your just turning it into a sideshow now.

Calm down, bro. I was pointing out the hypocrisy in your post. Mentioning all the wear items that people replace on the 3.0 but not doing the same for the 1.8's.

Yes the intake actuator is still a moving part so I would call it a wear item. It's a big one, but still. You claim the 1.8 has nowhere near the same amount of issues but I'd say it's roughly the same.

You have more plentiful, cheaper power options. Good for you. I specifically chose a 3.0 b6 because I can't stand the sound of 4 cylinders. I still have love for them in b6's, because, well, b6. But I couldn't deal with the typical 4 cylinder sound.

Anyway, like Protection said, regardless of engine, it's still a great chassis.

Back to talking about 3.0 mods.

[Nollywood]

Has anyone played around with intake manifold spacers, and different injectors, followed by a remap in the 3.0? I'm just curious. I've seen somewhere, where a shop pulled the heads, ported them, did a valve job, bigger injectors and throttle body.

It ran a bigger MAF housing, and the MAF cartridge was scaled accordingly. It ran pretty strong, by all accounts, and was able to get into the 14's. I can't remember what power it made, though.

[EuroxS4]

Only benefit of spacer I could see is extra torque but it wount be much.


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