C7 S6/S7 RS7 4.0T 1/4 Mile Database

[MileMan402]

Over and over again we've seen that Stage 2 (downpipes and/or catback) adds zero horsepower to these cars. The stock downpipes and catalysts are just that good (same part number as the RS7 pieces). I really don't know if you had a bad batch of gas with timing pull like you say you did, but I doubt it based on everything I've seen. Stage 2 just doesn't add any power. That's the likely reason why you essentially ran the same numbers with Stage 2 as you did with Stage 1. I'm not trying to make you look stupid. My goal is to educate the community. This way people don't have to waste money on mods that don't yield any appreciable gains. It's to help others. Please consider this going forward...

As for my car, those 11.0 times were with Stage 1, a 93/ethanol mix and rear drag radials. Everything else stock. Density altitude was around 1400-1600 IIRC. I then added the RS7 inlet pipes and RS7 airbox and ran a hair slower on average but since the car was ran on different days it's tough to say what the true gain or loss was. My gut tells me it just didn't do anything one way or the other.

I wouldn't say that ***video deleted***

You can state your "intentions" all you want but it's easy to see you are combative to some degree in almost every post you make. Whether it's calling someone out or stating people don't know what they're talking about if they think differently than you do.

And there is a ton of proof out there that DPs and a retune DO add power to these cars. It's not substantial, but 30-40awhp seems to be the general range. That isn't going to turn an 11.5 sec car into an 11.0 sec car, but it would probably shave a tenth or two, assuming other variables remain similar. Watch the video above. I would argue that gap is worth a tenth or two in the 1/4

I think what TT 4.0T is alluding to is that unless you're running a truly custom tune that you have input on (not just blindly trusting your tuner) that "30-40 whp" could be left on the table with stock DP's and really they're just upselling you a $1500-2000 set of DP's and releasing that extra hp to you.

[saxon]

I think what TT 4.0T is alluding to is that unless you're running a truly custom tune that you have input on (not just blindly trusting your tuner) that "30-40 whp" could be left on the table with stock DP's and really they're just upselling you a $1500-2000 set of DP's and releasing that extra hp to you.

trust me that no tuner wants to do that, if they do that and another tuners stage 1 destroys there tune it would not be good.

[TT 4.0T]

What I've been saying is the advertised ~30-40 HP increase people are talking about from some companies' Stage 1 to Stage 2 is legit in some cases, such as with APR. However, it's not from the downpipes; it's from the revised (and more aggressive) software included in the Stage 2 package. For example, according to a thread here on AZ, a representative from APR confirmed that their Stage 2 software was revised compared to their Stage 1 software to be more aggressive and basically runs the turbos at their max (i.e. no more boost can be run). So if you run a similarly aggressive tune on the stock downpipes, you can achieve roughly the same power. Unitronic, on the other hand, did it right and posted their actual results for Stage 1 and Stage 2. This was a truly apples to apples comparison since both their Stage 1 and Stage 2 offerings include software that's already aggressive. So in their case, the difference between the two stages was essentially just the downpipes. And this is why their published results showed a peak gain of something like only 4 HP.

While I'm not accusing tuners of anything, it's conceivable that they realized during their R&D phase that the downpipes by themselves did not add any power so they decided to bundle them together with stronger "Stage 2" software. What they don't want to tell you is how much of that 30-40 HP gain is from the DPs and how much is from the more aggressive software. If I were them, I wouldn't want that disclosed either... Otherwise it would kill DP sales and you'd have people opting for stronger software with the stock downpipes while saving thousands in hardware and labor charges.

You can run similarly revised and aggressive software with the stock downpipes and exhaust and achieve the same or at least very similar results. It's my opinion that this is why the EPL car walked the APR. APR's stage 1 software is a little weak and leaves power on the table compared to their Stage 2 software or Unitronic/EPL (either stage).

I think what TT 4.0T is alluding to is that unless you're running a truly custom tune that you have input on (not just blindly trusting your tuner) that "30-40 whp" could be left on the table with stock DP's and really they're just upselling you a $1500-2000 set of DP's and releasing that extra hp to you.

[TT 4.0T]

No Stage 1 tune is going to "destroy" another's Stage 2 or even Stage 1. Unitronic, APR, EPL, etc. are all very similar in terms of power, except APR's Stage 1 is lacking because it leaves a lot of power on the table (probably to pave the way for the Stage 2 package). There's only so much you can extract from the smallish turbos on the S6/7.

trust me that no tuner wants to do that, if they do that and another tuners stage 1 destroys there tune it would not be good.

[saxon]

What I've been saying is the advertised ~30-40 HP increase people are talking about from some companies' Stage 1 to Stage 2 is legit in some cases, such as with APR. However, it's not from the downpipes; it's from the revised (and more aggressive) software included in the Stage 2 package. For example, according to a thread here on AZ, a representative from APR confirmed that their Stage 2 software was revised compared to their Stage 1 software to be more aggressive and basically runs the turbos at their max (i.e. no more boost can be run). So if you run a similarly aggressive tune on the stock downpipes, you can achieve roughly the same power. Unitronic, on the other hand, did it right and posted their actual results for Stage 1 and Stage 2. This was a truly apples to apples comparison since both their Stage 1 and Stage 2 offerings include software that's already aggressive. So in their case, the difference between the two stages was essentially just the downpipes. And this is why their published results showed a peak gain of something like only 4 HP.

While I'm not accusing tuners of anything, it's conceivable that they realized during their R&D phase that the downpipes by themselves did not add any power so they decided to bundle them together with stronger "Stage 2" software. What they don't want to tell you is how much of that 30-40 HP gain is from the DPs and how much is from the more aggressive software. If I were them, I wouldn't want that disclosed either... Otherwise it would kill DP sales and you'd have people opting for stronger software with the stock downpipes while saving thousands in hardware and labor charges.

You can run similarly revised and aggressive software with the stock downpipes and exhaust and achieve the same or at least very similar results. It's my opinion that this is why the EPL car walked the APR. APR's stage 1 software is a little weak and leaves power on the table compared to their Stage 2 software or Unitronic/EPL (either stage).

no, thats not how it works. please create another thread to prevent this thread from getting clogged up.

downpipes allow better flow which allow more aggressive timing. you can not run the same amount of timing without them. its as simple as that

[Barritia]

I think I asked this before but if the RS downpipes are infact the same as the S downpipes then how comes they are more than capable enough on a stage 1 RS with bigger Turbos but not on a stage 2 S with smaller Turbos. Or is it a lie that the downpipes are the same.

[pez81]

What I've been saying is the advertised ~30-40 HP increase people are talking about from some companies' Stage 1 to Stage 2 is legit in some cases, such as with APR. However, it's not from the downpipes; it's from the revised (and more aggressive) software included in the Stage 2 package. For example, according to a thread here on AZ, a representative from APR confirmed that their Stage 2 software was revised compared to their Stage 1 software to be more aggressive and basically runs the turbos at their max (i.e. no more boost can be run). So if you run a similarly aggressive tune on the stock downpipes, you can achieve roughly the same power. Unitronic, on the other hand, did it right and posted their actual results for Stage 1 and Stage 2. This was a truly apples to apples comparison since both their Stage 1 and Stage 2 offerings include software that's already aggressive. So in their case, the difference between the two stages was essentially just the downpipes. And this is why their published results showed a peak gain of something like only 4 HP.

While I'm not accusing tuners of anything, it's conceivable that they realized during their R&D phase that the downpipes by themselves did not add any power so they decided to bundle them together with stronger "Stage 2" software. What they don't want to tell you is how much of that 30-40 HP gain is from the DPs and how much is from the more aggressive software. If I were them, I wouldn't want that disclosed either... Otherwise it would kill DP sales and you'd have people opting for stronger software with the stock downpipes while saving thousands in hardware and labor charges.

You can run similarly revised and aggressive software with the stock downpipes and exhaust and achieve the same or at least very similar results. It's my opinion that this is why the EPL car walked the APR. APR's stage 1 software is a little weak and leaves power on the table compared to their Stage 2 software or Unitronic/EPL (either stage).

Don't EGTs play a large part in why DPs are needed for a more aggressive tune.

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[TT 4.0T]

These are arguments which could very well be true if the stock S6 downpipes were deemed a restriction at the levels we're seeing. Based on everything I've seen though, I believe they flow plenty at the power levels we're all at right now. So turbine inlet pressures, exhaust gas temperatures, etc are more than adequate with the stock downpipes as they are with aftermarket downpipes, thus no power gains. Install gigantic turbos on your car, crank up the boost to 35-40 PSI and then I'd probably agree with the statements below since the downpipes (and catalysts) would likely become a restriction at those power and boost levels.

I think a common misconception on the forums is believing a hardware component is restrictive just because it's the stock OEM piece. People often believe aftermarket parts have to be better than stock and add power just because you're getting rid of the stock part. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. Sometimes the aftermarket part actually loses power! For example, aftermarket catbacks for the 4.0T as well as a name brand cone style intake were both shown to lose power on APR's in house dyno. Bottom line is every case is different. In this application, the factory downpipes flow very well. They flow so well that Audi's performance division "quattro GmbH" didn't bother changing them for the much higher horsepower RS6/7 variants, despite the engines running bigger turbos and more boost. Tuned RS7s have gone as quick as low 10's with the OEM downpipes (same as S6 pipes). A tuned RS7 makes a solid 100-150 more HP than a tuned S6/7...

For Saxon, I'm just curious, what made you decide to go with the Unitronic stage 2 setup? Their own dyno sheet below shows minimal gains over stage 1+... The same kind of standard deviation you typically see from just one dyno pull to the next. In other words, the results were so small they're hardly even quantifiable.

Stage 1+: 529 HP (peak): https://www.getunitronic.com/imgs/dy...i-S6-S7-C7.jpg
Stage 2: 538 HP (peak): https://www.getunitronic.com/imgs/dy...i-S6-S7-C7.jpg

So a 9 HP gain (peak) with aftermarket downpipes and aftermarket catback. 9 HP in a 4400lb tank is probably not going to show up until the last decimal place on your timeslip.

no, thats not how it works. please create another thread to prevent this thread from getting clogged up.

downpipes allow better flow which allow more aggressive timing. you can not run the same amount of timing without them. its as simple as that

Don't EGTs play a large part in why DPs are needed for a more aggressive tune.

[TT 4.0T]

They're the same. Part numbers 4G0254252LX and 4G0254202NX.

You can go to the following link and then click each part number to see what other models those same part numbers can be found on. In this case, those RS7 downpipes can be found on the S6, S7, A8, and S8.

http://www.oemepc.com/audi/part_sing.../263478/lang/e

I think I asked this before but if the RS downpipes are infact the same as the S downpipes then how comes they are more than capable enough on a stage 1 RS with bigger Turbos but not on a stage 2 S with smaller Turbos. Or is it a lie that the downpipes are the same.

[saxon]

These are arguments which could very well be true if the stock S6 downpipes were deemed a restriction at the levels we're seeing. Based on everything I've seen though, I believe they flow plenty at the power levels we're all at right now. So turbine inlet pressures, exhaust gas temperatures, etc are more than adequate with the stock downpipes as they are with aftermarket downpipes, thus no power gains. Install gigantic turbos on your car, crank up the boost to 35-40 PSI and then I'd probably agree with the statements below since the downpipes (and catalysts) would likely become a restriction at those power and boost levels.

I think a common misconception on the forums is believing a hardware component is restrictive just because it's the stock OEM piece. People often believe aftermarket parts have to be better than stock and add power just because you're getting rid of the stock part. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. Sometimes the aftermarket part actually loses power! For example, aftermarket catbacks for the 4.0T as well as a name brand cone style intake were both shown to lose power on APR's in house dyno. Bottom line is every case is different. In this application, the factory downpipes flow very well. They flow so well that Audi's performance division "quattro GmbH" didn't bother changing them for the much higher horsepower RS6/7 variants, despite the engines running bigger turbos and more boost. Tuned RS7s have gone as quick as low 10's with the OEM downpipes (same as S6 pipes). A tuned RS7 makes a solid 100-150 more HP than a tuned S6/7...

For Saxon, I'm just curious, what made you decide to go with the Unitronic stage 2 setup? Their own dyno sheet below shows minimal gains over stage 1+... The same kind of standard deviation you typically see from just one dyno pull to the next. In other words, the results were so small they're hardly even quantifiable.

Stage 1+: 529 HP (peak): https://www.getunitronic.com/imgs/dy...i-S6-S7-C7.jpg
Stage 2: 538 HP (peak): https://www.getunitronic.com/imgs/dy...i-S6-S7-C7.jpg

So a 9 HP gain (peak) with aftermarket downpipes and aftermarket catback. 9 HP in a 4400lb tank is probably not going to show up until the last decimal place on your timeslip.

If all you care about is peak power I'd agree, however the mid range gains are pretty significant

[TT 4.0T]

Maybe 10-15 in the mid range? That's for the downpipes and catback, not downpipes alone. Could also be differences between the stage 1+ and stage 2 software that account for some of that gain.

If all you care about is peak power I'd agree, however the mid range gains are pretty significant

[pez81]

Maybe 10-15 in the mid range? That's for the downpipes and catback, not downpipes alone. Could also be differences between the stage 1+ and stage 2 software that account for some of that gain.

I think tuners have shown 30-40whp with downpipes in the midrange. Only way to know is buy downpipes. I think I'll get some custom made and report back

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[pez81]

Maybe 10-15 in the mid range? That's for the downpipes and catback, not downpipes alone. Could also be differences between the stage 1+ and stage 2 software that account for some of that gain.

Anyway vol/new user what tune do you have. Do you have a cat back? I know you had a good run on radials but what on street tyres? All user feedback is good, means we can all learn from each other

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk

[kouzman]

57 documented track passes, 39 on APR stage 1, 33 in the 10s, 12 under 10.70.

[email protected] best on racegas
[email protected] best on pumpgas

[saxon]

57 documented track passes, 39 on APR stage 1, 33 in the 10s, 12 under 10.70.

[email protected] best on racegas
[email protected] best on pumpgas

Thanks, any mods and what gas?

[kouzman]

Thanks, any mods and what gas?

Mods, APR stage 1, Roc-Euro Intake, no spare and tools ( I have retrofitted a spare tire kit), weight with driver 4675lbs, wheels HRE FF15 20x10.5 on Michelin PSS 285/35-20
gas: VP Racing MS109

[saxon]

updated

[HeelBuff]

57 documented track passes, 39 on APR stage 1, 33 in the 10s, 12 under 10.70.

[email protected] best on racegas
[email protected] best on pumpgas

What a great run. Congratulations!

[Ze_Nardo6]

57 documented track passes, 39 on APR stage 1, 33 in the 10s, 12 under 10.70.

[email protected] best on racegas
[email protected] best on pumpgas

Awesome times!!

[SubaruSTI8]

things like this make me want an rs7 LOL

[TT 4.0T]

One can achieve very similar numbers by slapping on OEM RS7 turbos and a few other bits.

things like this make me want an rs7 LOL

[Pinto6one7]

So if the downpipes are the same on the S6 as the RS7, has anyone tried to run a stage II software on stock downpipes?
I'd be curious to see dyno or 1/4 times compared to stage II with upgraded downpipes.

[smilton]

So if the downpipes are the same on the S6 as the RS7, has anyone tried to run a stage II software on stock downpipes?
I'd be curious to see dyno or 1/4 times compared to stage II with upgraded downpipes.

I suspect high EGTs are what make the tuners press so hard for down pipes with stage II software. Since all of the stage I tunes produce about the same power they are all trying to stay below roughly the same target metrics -- I too am curious what those numbers are and if the stock down pipes are perhaps being sold short of their potential. I'm not saying I'd want to run such a hot tune daily but occasional 1/4 passes it could be a possibility.

[3rdBNCC]

For this we need:
year 2014
make Audi
model RS7
ecu tune APR
tcu tune N/A
stage 2
file 100
fuel Sunoco 100
misc mods Stock other than tune and DPs
d/a
date 1/11/17
timeslip[/QUOTE]

[HeelBuff]

2014 RS7 with APR stage 2 file and APR down pipes on 104 octane tune running pure VP MS-109 (105 octane). A solid 11 second car.

[Ze_Nardo6]

2014 RS7 with APR stage 2 file and APR down pipes on 104 octane tune running pure VP MS-109 (105 octane). A solid 11 second car.

I shouldn't laugh but you make it difficult not to...really hoping a solution finds it's way to your car. Sorry brother

[saxon]

updated times

[3rdBNCC]

For this we need:
year 2014
make Audi
model RS7
ecu tune APR
tcu tune N/A
stage 2
file 104
fuel Sunoco GT260+
misc mods Roc Euro Intake, APR DP
d/a
date 2/9/17
timeslip

[cobrario]

For this we need:
year 2014
make Audi
model RS7
ecu tune APR
tcu tune N/A
stage 2
file 104
fuel Sunoco GT260+
misc mods Roc Euro Intake, APR DP
d/a
date 2/9/17
timeslip

Wow, full interior? If so that's the fastest I've seen for a car's that's not gutted, congrats!

[3rdBNCC]

Wow, full interior? If so that's the fastest I've seen for a car's that's not gutted, congrats!

Thanks! Daily driver, full interior, child car seats, tire kit, nothing gutted and I am 6'3" 235 lbs

[saxon]

great times!!!

that run is faster than an upgraded turbo time!

updated

[kouzman]

For this we need:
year 2014
make Audi
model RS7
ecu tune APR
tcu tune N/A
stage 2
file 104
fuel Sunoco GT260+
misc mods Roc Euro Intake, APR DP
d/a
date 2/9/17
timeslip

these are some killer times my man! congrats!

what tire combo are you running? and what settings do you use to launch. You have some amazing 60ft times!

[3rdBNCC]

these are some killer times my man! congrats!

what tire combo are you running? and what settings do you use to launch. You have some amazing 60ft times!

285 35 21 MPSS. Still playing around with the launch. Obviously the brake and traction control off, but more "feathering" into the launch since these cars don't have traditional LC. I really feel like if I can repeat my best 60' time of 1.53, I can get to 10.2x. I ran out of time last night.

Also, I would say that the track prep at OSW (use to be Bithlo) is a big part of why my 60 times are so good, they do an amazing job. Typically my first couple of runs I have some spin but once the night wears on they get it so sticky out there you can hear your tires sticking to the track as you are rolling up to the line. At PBIR I can't even get around the water boxes so its nearly impossible to launch there in an AWD car on street tires.

[3rdBNCC]

great times!!!

that run is faster than an upgraded turbo time!

updated

Thanks for adding. Actually though you had a bit of a typo in my favor. Should be 10.344 not 10.334, I will take though lol

[saxon]

fixed

[low-profile]

Congrats on a fantastic run! And you backed it up...just a little wheel spin on the second slip?
Was this last night? Time and/or date is off, correct?

The RS7 boys are laying the smack down!!!

For this we need:
year 2014
make Audi
model RS7
ecu tune APR
tcu tune N/A
stage 2
file 104
fuel Sunoco GT260+
misc mods Roc Euro Intake, APR DP
d/a
date 2/9/17
timeslip

[low-profile]

You guys are making me want to trade up to the RS7...already. Nice run! March 5th at E-town they have a t-n-t. Let me know if you are interested in going.

57 documented track passes, 39 on APR stage 1, 33 in the 10s, 12 under 10.70.

[email protected] best on racegas
[email protected] best on pumpgas

[3rdBNCC]

Congrats on a fantastic run! And you backed it up...just a little wheel spin on the second slip?
Was this last night? Time and/or date is off, correct?

The RS7 boys are laying the smack down!!!

Thanks! Yes it was last night. Not sure why the time/date was off but it has had me messed up too ever since lol.
Yes the second one I tried to launch at a higher rpm and had a tad bit of spin.

[DGVR6]

Sheesh, I just seen the video.. that's moving

[3rdBNCC]

Sheesh, I just seen the video.. that's moving

Supposedly a guy filmed the run with a drone too. Going to try to find out if he actually did, that would be a sick perspective.