Another 'Help Me Decide On A Stage 3 Build' Thread.

[Euromike]

Hi Ziners'

I would love some opinions on what to do with this car.

My story is i had a B5 A4 in high school, always dreamed of getting into an S4, but had to sell the car (and everything else fun) to buy a house a few years ago. Now that things have settled down and i got the house fixed up, its time to put a little money into fun again. I am partial to Laser Red because my A4 was that color, and came across a clean one that i picked up a few months ago. 170k miles, 6 speed, 01. No rust, Totally stock other than a straight pipe exhaust from the cat back (raspy) Timing belt just done. Obligatory pic below.

Since i picked up this car, i have found a laundry list if things that bother me about it. Heater core isnt working right, and yes i know how labor intensive it is, ill get to it someday. But, the shocks arent great, It leaks oil like crazy.. i could go on, but you guys get the picture. Motor needs to come out and be gone over.

I have researched a ton of stage 3 builds. I don't want to spend more than 5k or so all in, so i realize I'm going to have to source things used. This is not my DD. Wont be driven at all in the winter. My goal in this build is to have a reliable weekend toy that doesn't leak oil like a bitch, but doesn't have so much power i start blowing differentials, axles, and transmission internals. I want to be confident jumping in this car and driving it 300 miles to H2oi / Waterfest. I also want the learning experience of putting this motor on the bench and going over it. It will be my first serious car teardown, and I'm sure it won't be my last.

Anyways. Turbo opinions. I am leaning towards Bw Ko4's for their even power distribution, and top notch reliability. Also you see a bunch come up used. But i am also considering Frankenturbo F21's for their affordability brand new, and i can't help but look at the RS6 options, but have heard mixed reviews on power delivery and reliability. Also much harder to find these cheap.

If i have done my research right, these are the supporting mods i need
Inlets, hopefully sourced with turbos. Planning about $1500 budget for turbos and inlets.
Downpipes (~300 used)
RS4 MAF (100 used)
Exhaust (~500 used)
Fueling (~200)
Fuel Pump (~200)
Intake (~150 used)
Motor/Trans Mounts (200 NEW)
Stage 3 Clutch (~800)
FMIC (~500)
Silicone hoses (~200)
Tuning (~300??)
DV's (100)
Gaskets, Hoses, Seals, Fluids, Ect (400)
Very Rough Approx Total $5450.

Am i missing any parts here? Are my prices somewhat on point? No idea what tuning to go with, but hoping for an out of the box tune.. Would love to do SMIC's for that stock look, but FMIC seems a much cheaper option. Not sure if i should put a used clutch in it, might step up for a new one.. But i think everything else other than gaskets and such can be sourced used.

Appreciate your input guys. Im really excited to get started with this build. Going to pick up an engine hoist on black friday ($99, gotta love harbor freight)

Cant say I'm not tempted to sell the bitch and pick up a completed car for the same or less money.. some freakin nice cars in the classifieds right now for around 9k, and thats about what i would have into this car after dumping 4-5 thousand into a build.. But, i really would like to do the build myself and be sure everything is solid, and done right..

Thanks for the opinions, and forgive the long, drawn out post with way too much information.

-Mike

[audi-hammer]

-I have a lot of those parts used and im not too far from you (3 hours) in buffalo, NY. jhm and ebay front mount intercooler are the same, $400 new on ebay. Don't advise a front mount, I have awe smic with fiberglass shrouds for $500. I believe tuning is roughly $400 for a stage 3 tune from the guys who will send logs back n forth aka blake, mirza. I HIGHLY advise bw ko4's or bw RS6. Been seeing a few failures coming out with the other options. Your prices are about right but clutch you can prob get a whole lot cheaper. I literally have everything on that list besides intake/maf housing.
-Love my harbor freight engine hoist and stand, they work.
-Buying another car is always an option but you have a clean sport laser, that is a perfect starting point. You know the issues your car has now already if there are any and you get to do it yourself. The last part is worth its weight in gold as lame as that is to say haha

[jturnbull]

I have some F21s currently being upgraded to Mixed flow that I'm considering selling. PM me if you're interested

[avant1987]

AWE side mounts aren't much more than a front mount. They have 15 days lead time for production as an FYI.


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[FlyboyS4]

Inlets, hopefully sourced with turbos. Planning about $1500 budget for turbos and inlets.
Downpipes (~300 used)
RS4 MAF (100 used)
Exhaust (~500 used)
Fueling (~200)
Fuel Pump (~200)
Intake (~150 used)
Motor/Trans Mounts (200 NEW)
Stage 3 Clutch (~800)
FMIC (~500)
Silicone hoses (~200)
Tuning (~300??)
DV's (100)
Gaskets, Hoses, Seals, Fluids, Ect (400)

----------------------
With your budget these are some parts I'd be considering.

XS Power Downpipes & Exhaust ($725)

ETSpec
Stage 3 fueling Kit & tune [3 Bar MAP Sensor, Walbro fuel pump, 52# EV14 injectors, RS4 MAF, Tune] ($800)
710N DV ($89)
Stern motor mounts ($205)
RS4 clutch ($429)

034
034 street density tranny mounts ($120)

SRM
SMIC's w/ hoses ($750)

Used K04's ($1,200-$1,500)

[Euromike]

-I have a lot of those parts used and im not too far from you (3 hours) in buffalo, NY.

You got a PM!

I have some F21s currently being upgraded to Mixed flow that I'm considering selling. PM me if you're interested

I think I'm more convinced than ever to go with BW K04's, but thanks!

With your budget these are some parts I'd be considering.

XS Power Downpipes & Exhaust ($725)

ETSpec
Stage 3 fueling Kit & tune [3 Bar MAP Sensor, Walbro fuel pump, 52# EV14 injectors, RS4 MAF, Tune] ($800)
710N DV ($89)
Stern motor mounts ($205)
RS4 clutch ($429)

034
034 street density tranny mounts ($120)

SRM
SMIC's w/ hoses ($750)

Used K04's ($1,200-$1,500)

Appreciate your input. Looks like my goal of keeping this around 4k will be attainable with some patience sourcing parts! Hoping to find the exhaust used from somebody. I will have to check out this ETSpec site, i can definitely deal with $429 for a clutch!

[TylerT]

Funny, you and I are in the same boat and I've already decided far before I purchased my car it would go Stage III. Helps having a second car

I'm currently getting all of my maintenance done before I start sourcing parts, much of which you've already done.

I think if you put the time & money into these cars, they really are worth it in the end .. If I could get around 350-375whp reliably (I understand reliable is a relative term with these cars), I'd be stoked.

Stage 2 simply isn't enough.

[Euromike]

Funny, you and I are in the same boat and I've already decided far before I purchased my car it would go Stage III. Helps having a second car

I'm currently getting all of my maintenance done before I start sourcing parts, much of which you've already done.

I think if you put the time & money into these cars, they really are worth it in the end .. If I could get around 350-375whp reliably (I understand reliable is a relative term with these cars), I'd be stoked.

Stage 2 simply isn't enough.

I think stage 2 would probably be enough for me, but i would be constantly worrying about popping my 175,000 mile newly overworked K03's. haha! and i cant deal with all the oil leaks anymore.

[Euromike]

Slight update. Got a couple leads on used Bw K04's, injectors, dp's, inlets, ect from part outs once the guys get their motors pulled. Hope one of them works out!

Black friday season is here and i think my credit card is going to hurt after this weekend.

I did some research and found out that the control arm kit i bought for my A4 and never got around to putting on fits on my S4! Sweet!

I think my first bit of maintenance will be picking up a set of Solowerks coils ($399 right now) and installing that control arm kit, should make a huge difference, as my shocks and control arms are TOAST.

Also thinking about picking up a clutchmasters FX400 during the black friday sales, as i see it highly recommended around here. Do i want 6 puck or 8 pad disc? I see most of the recommendations around here are 6 puck, but i do want a smooth clutch if possible.. What do you guys think? i also emailed mike @ Ringer Racing about it. I will be using my stock flywheel, any issues with that?

The S4 is officially tucked away for the winter, the question remains if it will emerge next spring as a stage 3, or still stock, with better suspension. lol! Have a good thanksgiving guys.

[zatch_303]

You will love the car after all new control arms. Do tie rods while you're at it. With new control arms, new tie rods, and new coilovers you will fall in love with driving the car all over again. Even if it is stock still!

As far as the FX400 goes I have heard nothing but good things as well. I recently had to replace my clutch and I decided to go with the JHM stage 1 clutch kit (supposed to hold stage 2 power on our cars). Kit consists of JHM stage 1 clutch, 034 aluminum lightweight flywheel 240mm, and the B7 RS4 pressure plate. 2K miles so far and I could not be happier! Stock pedal feel with slightly more noticeable clamp, which took a few days to learn and get used to but now I absolutely love it. Would highly recommend. The big seller for me on this setup is that you can replace the iron friction plate when swapping clutch discs and retain the flywheel and B7 RS4 pressure plate so down the road when I have more power I can just upgrade to their stage 4 clutch (or any other clutch that is compatible with 240mm flywheels). Saves money in the long run.

Anyway, happy holidays and good luck with the car! Laser is one of my favorite colors!

[Euromike]

You will love the car after all new control arms. Do tie rods while you're at it. With new control arms, new tie rods, and new coilovers you will fall in love with driving the car all over again. Even if it is stock still!

As far as the FX400 goes I have heard nothing but good things as well. I recently had to replace my clutch and I decided to go with the JHM stage 1 clutch kit (supposed to hold stage 2 power on our cars). Kit consists of JHM stage 1 clutch, 034 aluminum lightweight flywheel 240mm, and the B7 RS4 pressure plate. 2K miles so far and I could not be happier! Stock pedal feel with slightly more noticeable clamp, which took a few days to learn and get used to but now I absolutely love it. Would highly recommend. The big seller for me on this setup is that you can replace the iron friction plate when swapping clutch discs and retain the flywheel and B7 RS4 pressure plate so down the road when I have more power I can just upgrade to their stage 4 clutch (or any other clutch that is compatible with 240mm flywheels). Saves money in the long run.

Anyway, happy holidays and good luck with the car! Laser is one of my favorite colors!

Thanks bud!I will have to look into your clutch setup tonight and see if i can find some good prices! I have been in touch with mike @ ringer racing who is recommending his stage 4 clutch to me, disc rather than puck setup. Did some searching on the forums, and people seem to like it and it can be used with stock flywheel. Very good pricing this weekend only. trying to talk myself into it.

And i picked this up yesterday! Was there about a half hour after their doors opened, and got the last one! I dont even know how they can sell these for $100 bucks on black friday, super nice. Took about 2 hours to put it together though lol, maybe i am just slow.

[Euromike]

Spent the morning in the garage prepping the car for coilovers and doing a compression test. Compression test results are following

145--145
140--145
145--150

Healthy enough for stage 3, right?

Ran into a broken spring. and some rusty ass strut mounts. Damn, this car is in really great shape rust wise and these strut mounts are just gone. Google searches are telling me 200+ PER SIDE? please dont tell me im going to have more money in freaking mounts than i am coilovers.

[Bordom]

Lol that's nothing. Check out my build thread and you'll see how much worse they get

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[Euromike]

Lol that's nothing. Check out my build thread and you'll see how much worse they get

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Thanks, now i got hooked on your build thread and had to read it all. Haha. Good work sir

but your not kidding they do get worse lol. But i cant put these back on, it will bother me.

Looks like AudiS4parts will sell me a set around $150, and a set actually just popped up on the classifieds. Nice.

Disaster averted.

[Euromike]

To anybody who doesnt know about it, Join the facebook B5 S4 owners group.

Posted about my strut mounts and looking for stage 3 parts, overwhelming response within an hour. Wow.

[Euromike]

Alright, i require more help. I actually have a few part out guys offering me K04's right now, but this is one if my biggest contendors.

I have the opportunity to pick up an AWE stage 3 kit. k04's, manifolds, Inlets, Downpipes, Injectors, MAF, DV's, Lobster claws. Asking $2500.

Unknown miles on the build, unknown age of the kit. He says no shaft play, and they look pretty clean, no bends in the fins or anything.

It look like AWE discontinued their full kit, or i can't find it on their site anyways. Is that a date stamp on the ECU of 10/04?

[Yuppie]

You can get a custom tune for fairly cheap now days. I believe Jared at VLM Spec offers custom tune for 400-500?

[Euromike]

You can get a custom tune for fairly cheap now days. I believe Jared at VLM Spec offers custom tune for 400-500?

Good to know, thanks. That is probably smarter, get something tuned for my specific build, whatever that may be, lol.

Also, did you get the reply to the PM you sent me the other day?

[Yuppie]

Good to know, thanks. That is probably smarter, get something tuned for my specific build, whatever that may be, lol.

Also, did you get the reply to the PM you sent me the other day?

Well any of the AWE, APR, ASP, etc tunes are off the shelf so they will work fine however you won't maximize the power potential of your setup. Going custom will allow you to do that and now days prices have really come down so it makes sense to go that route.

I'll check my PMs again and get back to you.

[Cajkaaa]

interesting. you are in Slippery rock right?

[Euromike]

interesting. you are in Slippery rock right?

Yes sir. Headed to Butler right now to shop at Sams Club. Haha!

[Cajkaaa]

That's a mistake. Hahah. I live by there actually.


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[Euromike]

That's a mistake. Hahah. I live by there actually.


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Cool man! My girl works at the hospital, and it's really or nearest food and shopping, so we're down there daily haha. Do you drive a B5? I have only seen 1 other around, which also happened to be a clean looking laser sedan.

[Cajkaaa]

What does she do at the hospital? My wife is an RN there. I have a black s4 avant on ccws. I also have a BMP r32 with a fully shaved bay on work wheels. That's he car you'd most likely see. I have seen that laser a few times. No idea who it is. There is a vast stage 3 avant local as well. But he doesn't bring it out much.


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[Euromike]

What does she do at the hospital? My wife is an RN there. I have a black s4 avant on ccws. I also have a BMP r32 with a fully shaved bay on work wheels. That's he car you'd most likely see. I have seen that laser a few times. No idea who it is. There is a vast stage 3 avant local as well. But he doesn't bring it out much.
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Haha no shit, she is also an RN there, 5M. I have absolutely seen your R32 once, very nice ride. Will be looking for your avant, good to know theres something other than WRX's and STI's in the area lol. Saw that laser at walmart a few months ago, and its one of the biggest things that motivated me to get back into B5's lol. I DD a chevy truck, nothing very noticeable lol. she drives a tornado mk6 gti, led tails. Cool man, never expected to meet a local on here

[Cajkaaa]

Haha that's too funny. She's in the ICU and soon to be cathlab. My avant may be down for the count as I'm pretty sure the turbos said bye. Debating on using my rebuilt Ko4 or get some srm k24 rs6. I have for sure seen her car my wife drives the bagged Tiguan at the hospital. Oh. Everyone here drives those things. It's annoying as all get out.


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[Euromike]

Haha that's too funny. She's in the ICU and soon to be cathlab. My avant may be down for the count as I'm pretty sure the turbos said bye. Debating on using my rebuilt Ko4 or get some srm k24 rs6. I have for sure seen her car my wife drives the bagged Tiguan at the hospital. Oh. Everyone here drives those things. It's annoying as all get out.

Yes, too many subarus!! my girl says she has seen the Tig and is extremely jealous of the bag setup. She wants to bag the GTI, but those airlift kits aren't cheap, and i need turbos. Haha!

I don't think my turbos have long either, 170k, never been changed. Also debating K04 / F21 / K24, so many options with these cars. Leaning towards BW K04 just because they are proven, and have a nice even power curve rather than top end punch, more fun around town.

[Cajkaaa]

I have the front struts for her car for sale! She's on coilovers now on that car. Lol. So if ya want to make her happy. I got you! I also work for open road tuning and can get you some deals on the kit.

Sad thing is my avant is a k04/996 hybrid car. So I'm downgrading slightly. Idk yet though honestly. I've thought the same thing on the proven fact. We will see. The power output just isn't enough for me I think.


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[Euromike]

I have the front struts for her car for sale! She's on coilovers now on that car. Lol. So if ya want to make her happy. I got you! I also work for open road tuning and can get you some deals on the kit.

Sad thing is my avant is a k04/996 hybrid car. So I'm downgrading slightly. Idk yet though honestly. I've thought the same thing on the proven fact. We will see. The power output just isn't enough for me I think.


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haha, she's on stock suspension, im hoping i can talk her into settling on a good set of coilovers. The car gets parked for the harshest winter months anyways, she can deal with static.

Bummer that you have K04's and they are going!! I would be doing Tial 770's if i could afford it. but not happening on stock block!!

[616_S4]

F21's FTW

[Euromike]

So many turbo options lol.

talking to a guy about Garrett gt2554r's right now. Didn't even realize they were an option!!

[Euromike]

F21's FTW

Have had quite a few people recommend F21's

They must have improved their build quality.

[Cajkaaa]

If you would be interested in k04s. I might be willing to sell mine.


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[Euromike]

Yes, i am looking for a set! Ill PM you man.