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  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Nov 16 2014
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    Is the car smarter than me

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    Hey guys and girls. So my car is a single turbo. I have no cel on. It's been a long fight lol. I can provide any other info you need sorry.

    Im in the middle of tuning and something is pulling the timing. I'll post a log. The second one is incomplete. I hate the timing pull as I can feel it

    I have checked for leaks and everything is pointing towards one. 80% duty cycle on the wastegate.

    During my log at 4250rpms my air to fuel is in the mid 14's. But then at 5000rpms it's right down to low 12's. I also don't have the water meth on at the moment but I don't want to tune for it just let it fight knock and iat's

    Sorry if this is confusing I just changed a dirty diaper in the middle of typing it. And tying to figure 4th grade math problems lol.


    so how do I post logs???
    Last edited by jimmer009; 11-02-2016 at 05:46 PM. Reason: add a log

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  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings slowSfaux's Avatar
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    Apr 26 2015
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    Phoenix, AZ

    Your afr is in the 14s at wide open throttle? That's crazy lean for wot.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Yea I agree. It does go back down. I'm running a walbro 450 so you wouldn't think it's not getting enough fuel. But at idle my fuel pressure is around 38psi. Should I go to a 5 bar fuel pressure regulator???

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings
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    Apr 07 2011
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    Home of the mighty beaver

    You likely have a mechanical fuel delivery issue. That's the good news.


    WAY too low idle fuel pressure. should be around 60-65 if I recall. (with vacuum line disconnected)


    any way to monitor fuel pressure at WOT ?


    things to check:

    swap FPR (not cuz its likely to have failed, but because its easy, also, check the screen on the bottom of it for possible debris)


    kinked fuel lines running back to tank. (sometimes they can get crushed somewhere along the bottom of car)




    Pull fuel pump. Check the return lines (the long ones that loop around) for kinks. repair if needed

    Check the fuel pump line from pump to lid, people like to use the wrong type of line, or dont install correctly, and it will kink, or split open at a stress point.

    Change fuel filter, (in my experience this NEVER helps unless its literally never been changed in 15 years, but its cheap and easy)


    Lastly, inspect the fuel pump itself.. A lot of these are being sold with a shitty pressure bypass mod that falls apart and basically just puts a big old hole in the top of the pump..... I personally think modifying a fuel pump like this is about the dumbest thing... Walboros are already sketchy in my book, no need to introduce further amounts of sketch.


    If all this checks out, replace the pump anyways, or, you can stick one inline in the engine bay and test with that... Thats how i determined I had a failed pump after checking/fixing everything else. (see wall of text below)





    I had a similar problems on both of my big turbo carsr. WOT had very lean AFR leading up to peak torque, then it would pull timing like mad, and start dumping fuel.


    One car, same as yours, low pressure at idle, you could drive around ok, but push it, and bad things happened.. I had no AFR guage, and no real tools to diagnose... I did however install a walboro fuel pump "kit" that included a shitty piece of hose (tyrolsport kit i think) and it turned out it was far too short, and split open at the fitting.


    My S4 had similar issues.. get into peak torque and it would pull timing etc.... again, no AFR guage (yet)... but I did have a nice fuel pressure guage... pressure was actually ok at idle... but if I got on it, the pressure actually started dropping as i got into boost.. a LOT.

    Traced the problem to both return lines being kinked shut in the tank.. And a subsequently burned out pump, or, the pump was defective from the get-go... And this was just a regular walboro 255.....




    I went 044 after that.. Ill never run another one of those cheap pumps again.
    Last edited by S4James; 11-03-2016 at 05:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Now is there any harm in running rubber lines all the way??? I am not against that. But I will pull the pump, I know I used the new hose they sent me with the pump.

    But no I don't have any way off checking fuel pressure at wot. (Damn slow friends)

    It is a new fuel filter. I have a universal one there. It's for fuel injection, should I buck up and get a high flow one???

    And you say both return lines??? My car only has one feed and one return. Evap is gone and coded out. But I will check everything this weekend just to make sure no kinks or something stopping pressure.

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiTechS4's Avatar
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    Oct 19 2007
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    My Garage
    2000 S4
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    Scottsdale , Az

    whats your setup ? are you tuning it or someone else ?what turbo ? what boost? there is alot left out lol

    where is your fuel pressure gauge /how are you measuring fuel pressure? what bar fpr do you have ?
    pull the vac line and whats your fuel pressure ? pinch off the return and whats your fuel pressure?
    2001 Audi S4 Manual - Nogaro Blue/black - Full AWE stg 3 kit w/ manifolds,h&r coilovers,jhm trans rebuild,UUC VM3 exhaust , 2.5" dp's - Needs Love - Got some love now 442awhp and 512 awtq
    2004 Audi S4 Avant manual - Silver/black - 2.7 swapped ,k24's and srm side mounts

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    The car is a single holset hx35w. I have a guy here from Audizine doing the tuning. I'm currently running 25psi., With 630cc injectors 85mm maf

    I currently have a fuel pressure gauge coming off my return line. I did install a new 4bar fpr not to long ago. But I will switch it to the supply and pinch the line.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will switch the gauge I meant

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings AudiTechS4's Avatar
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    Oct 19 2007
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    2000 S4
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    ok your gauge needs to be pre fpr , so on the feed side.
    2001 Audi S4 Manual - Nogaro Blue/black - Full AWE stg 3 kit w/ manifolds,h&r coilovers,jhm trans rebuild,UUC VM3 exhaust , 2.5" dp's - Needs Love - Got some love now 442awhp and 512 awtq
    2004 Audi S4 Avant manual - Silver/black - 2.7 swapped ,k24's and srm side mounts

  10. #10
    Veteran Member Three Rings Corradovolksb's Avatar
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    Aug 29 2013
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    2018 VW Atlas
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    Phoenix AZ

    I'm helping him with the tune. He has been working through some hardware issues so he should have things dialed in soon once he figures out what's going on with the fuel delivery.

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Oct 27 2011
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    TOYS
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    Philly Suburbs

    You need to know what the fuel pressure is between the fuel pump and pressure regulator, as that is what your injectors are seeing. 4 bar ~ 58 psi, but with vacuum you should read around 48 psi at idle. Does your tuner think you have a hardware issue?

    Start by listing all for your aftermarket performance hardware so we can better understand the situation.
    STK -> Compound Turbo Build Thread
    If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    So I switched the gauge around. I have 68psi at idle. And when I shut it off it sat at 48. And yes i meant it to say 68psi. It didn't go up or down when I unplugged the fpr. Would I t be that fast if a change???

    Sorry I didn't start out with a upgrade list. I do know better.

    Single holset hx35w
    630cc bish injectors
    Walbro 450lph pump (10g Wired)
    85mm maf
    2.0 coil packs
    I do have a boost gauge
    And a aem wideband
    Also ross-tech cable if we want to get technical lol.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings Monty23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmer009 View Post
    So I switched the gauge around. I have 68psi at idle. And when I shut it off it sat at 48. And yes i meant it to say 68psi. It didn't go up or down when I unplugged the fpr. Would I t be that fast if a change???

    Sorry I didn't start out with a upgrade list. I do know better.

    Single holset hx35w
    630cc bish injectors
    Walbro 450lph pump (10g Wired)
    85mm maf
    2.0 coil packs
    I do have a boost gauge
    And a aem wideband
    Also ross-tech cable if we want to get technical lol.
    Your stock fuel system can't relieve the fuel pressure adequately. This causes excessively high fuel pressure at idle and part throttle (which is probably compensated for in the tune). The walbro e85 pump (F90000267) has a relief valve that opens around 60-70 psi if I'm not mistaken. That means fuel pressure will bleed off in boost (68psi base fuel pressure + 20psi of boost = 88psi fuel pressure at 20 psi boost -> too much for that walbro imo). You either need to relieve the restriction in your fuel return line (I think the OEM FPR is a big restriction as well), or try running a 3 bar (43 psi) FPR to lower fuel pressure in boost to something the walbro pump can handle and obviously the tune needs to be revised for the 3 bar FPR.

    my .02
    STK -> Compound Turbo Build Thread
    If you cannot do great things, do small things in a great way.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    thanks Monty. Your 2cents is worth a quarter to me FYI.

    I have no problem going to a 3 bar fpr. I'll run it by corrado. anything is better than running lean and burning a hole in the piston.

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