Clutch and Flywheel combo - Does it work?

[Cgoon009]

All,

Looked around and cant seem to find an answer to my question. I have a Southbend clutch (https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B5_S4...e_3/ES3106506/) and I want to make sure it will work with either the 034 or fidanza single mass flywheels. The Southbend kit works with the stock dual mass, so I feel like it would, but I would like to make sure before I buy either one. Thanks

Edit, I know ECS says it will work, but I was hoping for verification then that. Im sure some of you will understand.

[XLR8 Craig]

Hello.

That setup should work fine with a 034 fly wheel.

We carry both products if you would like any further help or pricing!

Thanks,

Alex.

[jballou]

Why not just get a southbend single mass flywheel?

[Cgoon009]

Hello.

That setup should work fine with a 034 fly wheel.

We carry both products if you would like any further help or pricing!

Thanks,

Alex.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Why not just get a southbend single mass flywheel?

I had looked into that as well, but unless im just misinformed, it seems that the SB FW is about 250 more and has no replaceable surface. I would consider it if there was something I had overlooked. It also is 21lbs vs the 12lbs of the fidanza.

[jballou]

Thanks for the quick reply!



I had looked into that as well, but unless im just misinformed, it seems that the SB FW is about 250 more and has no replaceable surface. I would consider it if there was something I had overlooked. It also is 21lbs vs the 12lbs of the fidanza.

You are better off with the 21# flywheel. And replacement element???? Its a steel flywheel. Should last a very long time.

[Cgoon009]

You are better off with the 21# flywheel. And replacement element???? Its a steel flywheel. Should last a very long time.

After reading some more info, I think you may be right. I still have a couple concerns about it, mainly being that I will supposedly be right around the split in power that clutch/flywheel makers talk about. From what I understand, 500 or more at the crank seems to warrant an aluminum fw. (Im sure there are exceptions to this)

Another concern is the heat, I like the idea of steel, because the last thing I want to do is pull the flywheel because I warped it. But is it really that easy to warp? Hoping someone with some experience can chime in.

I also don't plan on dragging the car ever, but I do like the idea of a rev happy motor. I rev match by force of habit, so that seems appealing. Will the heavier steel fw still give me the same feel? I'm assuming that both options are going to be an improvement over the DMFW.

Are you running a steel wheel? Thanks for the info.

[Monty23]

South bend is a great company to deal with, they will resurface your stock DM flywheels if you want as long as its in acceptable condition. But the TTV flywheel is worth looking at. It's the least expensive steel FW and very good quality (machined-in tone ring).

[Cgoon009]

South bend is a great company to deal with, they will resurface your stock DM flywheels if you want as long as its in acceptable condition. But the TTV flywheel is worth looking at. It's the least expensive steel FW and very good quality (machined-in tone ring).

Thanks for the info, I will definitely take a look. I spoke with Dave at Southbend, and I really liked what he had to say. Another plus, the S4 FW from them is actually 17.5 pounds. That makes it even more attractive.

[joeSfour]

I used a full Southbend set up on my previous STK build. Southbend's stage 4 endurance, with their single mass steel flywheel, and could not have been happier with the results. Did not have any issues with installation, or the product, but if I had questions, Southbend was there to answer them.

Definitely recommend them solely based on their customer service, and success rate with the B5 platform.

[jballou]

[QUOTE=Cgoon009;11986564] From what I understand, 500 or more at the crank seems to warrant an aluminum fw. (Im sure there are exceptions to this)

QUOTE]

I am not sure what you mean buy this. Don't mistake what you read on here as the bible. Listen to the Veterans that have slung this car day in and day out.

[james 408]

using a fidanza aluminum w/steel friction surface on the southbend stage 4 endurance. <3 the flywheel and clutch is working great so far. as far as hp around 500 before it matters, that really has absolutely nothing to do with it. (in fact it could reasonably be argued the reverse is true, that steel would be better above 500hp, depending on the usage)

Aluminum flywheels can cause problems if not properly bedded. the steel friction surface of the fidanza helps aleviate that. It's also pretty cheap to replace (think it was around $100). The weight of the flywheel reduces rev time/engine mass. I'd avoid the 034 product, but I am extremely bias on that.

as far as heat goes, i've never warped a flywheel, but outside of intentionally popping the clutch to extend slides (which i try to give cooldown for), as long as you're rev matching there should be virtually no heat building in the system. I know when i was first learning to road-race a manual i mismatched shifts a lot more and there was some scarring/pitting on my stocker -- but this was largely due to driver mistakes. Don't take this the wrong way <3 http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-toe-technique note: the reason i suspect downshifting might be your issue is i've done extended road-racing stints right before multi-clutchpop gymkhanna/stunting and the clutch fade doesn't usually even begin until several back-to-back intentional over-rev pops. Car hasn't been healthy much lately (hence my 034 hate), but haven't even felt any clutch fade from the stage 4 endurance yet.

edit: oh maybe you're just fearing warping rather than actually having warped one. well i'll just leave it written as it is above, as that should give you a pretty good perspective on the matter. Outside of your clutch basically melting and you driving it without noticing the slip, I doubt you'll ever see a warped flywheel. However, absent changes to the shape of the flywheel, more mass = greater heat capacity; aluminum i believe cools faster, but can't absorb as much heat before failing. There are also some driving characteristic concerns. This link gives a better overview than I could ever hope to in a reasonably sized post: https://fidanza.com/aluminum-vs-steel/

from what i gather, 99% of cases of warped flywheels are from driving around a worn out clutch, and the driver failing to notice it slipping. Unless you're this guy:

[tasinb5s4]

FIDANZA owner here , if your clutch fit OEM dual mass flywheel it will fit FIDANZA
I ran FIDANZA with multible clutches no problems . When you receive flywheel there is crank O ring hold down with bolts use hight temp tread lock on those bolts thats it !
that flywheel can take some serous stress i have it for 75 k miles now over 100 drag launches running mid-low 11 sec passes still holds good
south bend clutch? my friend had one it slips ...not the best clutch to have for aggressive driver
AMD or RINGER RACING stage 4 much batter stuff & cheaper
currently running FIDANZA with RR stage 4 & USP metal slave kit -best clutch set up i ever had ,clutch pedal lighter then stock , engagement much batter then stock ,no chatter my be way i drive
i had multble 1.5-1.6 60ft on full weight car

[Cgoon009]

.

Yeah I agree about forums not being gospel. I was actually referencing literature from Astro Performance (Ford company) and Fidanza, they were both making the case for high power cars having aluminum (Unless dragging). Thanks for bringing up the SB flywheel, had you not, I wouldn't have taken a closer look and changed my mind. I ordered one today.

using a fidanza aluminum w/steel friction surface on the southbend stage 4 endurance

Thanks for all the info, I have never warped a flywheel myself, but good pointers on driving. I learned from my old man, so I like to think im pretty good, but everyone can learn a thing or two.

FIDANZA owner here

Thanks for your input!

[jballou]

Good choice..

[naudlee]

TTV or bust

[ianwpb]

TTV 0608. Mine was like $418 shipped.

http://ttvracing.com/product/audi-s4...ufacturer=audi

[Wide-66]

Careful with TTV they had machining issues on a batch and are failing to tell customers. The tone ring is machined wrong giving the improper impulse signal.

[Nollywood]

I've been running TTV flywheels since 2009, in different cars, and different engines. 2.7T, V8 32/40V. never had any issues.
My most recent was this year, in a 2000 B5 V8 40V quattro. Never missed a beat.

[Wide-66]

This was august I bought it. My problem is they knew when I questioned if it was right and told me it was fine. It caused me to tear the whole thing apart again. They knew at the time I asked and said nothing.

[Monty23]

This was august I bought it. My problem is they knew when I questioned if it was right and told me it was fine. It caused me to tear the whole thing apart again. They knew at the time I asked and said nothing.

That sucks, TTV sent me a flywheel with clutch disk surface machined to the wrong height which caused me to waste a crap load of time trying to figure out what happened (clutch was slipping after the 500 mi break in, I was livid). Sent the flywheel and my old SB clutch to SB and they confirmed my suspicion and fixed the flywheel for me for nothing. South Bend is a great company to work with!

I shared mf findings with TTV and they assured me all the other flywheels they had on hand were correct. But after reading another thread, I think they simply shipped me a B7 RS4 flywheel by accident.

[Wide-66]

It sucked big time being in my RS6. Ill pull 2.7ts all day but the 4.2t even deleted is not much fun. This is just a heads up the tone rings could be machined wrong where it isnt clocked right in regards to TDC. If your just a normal guy not looking its easy to miss. If you get a cam correlation code and no start thats most likely the issue.

[ianwpb]

My engine is still out.. The TTV flywheel is bolted up. I have my stock DMFW.. Would be able to tell if it was machined correctly by comparing it to the stock FW?

[julex]

My engine is still out.. The TTV flywheel is bolted up. I have my stock DMFW.. Would be able to tell if it was machined correctly by comparing it to the stock FW?

Sure. Measure step up from friction surface to top of posts the PP bolts to. They should match.

AS for tone ring, simply locate the large window on both FWs, stack them on top of each other, clock both FWs so that the large windows are synchrnized and all the holes should match exactly. Simply put bolts through and they should go through both FWs without any interference.

[ianwpb]

Sure. Measure step up from friction surface to top of posts the PP bolts to. They should match.

AS for tone ring, simply locate the large window on both FWs, stack them on top of each other, clock both FWs so that the large windows are synchrnized and all the holes should match exactly. Simply put bolts through and they should go through both FWs without any interference.

Thanks, it's already bolted up, but I should be able to check the tone ring still.

[julex]

Thanks, it's already bolted up, but I should be able to check the tone ring still.

you can still verify the step up. The voids for PP straps are usually machines right in plane with friction surface and should be very easy to verify if that's the case. If so (99.99999% certain it is), then you can verify the step up by measuring it directly on the side of FW/PP stack.

[Seerlah]

from what i gather, 99% of cases of warped flywheels are from driving around a worn out clutch, and the driver failing to notice it slipping. Unless you're this guy:

This video cracks me up each and every time. I absolutely hate talking bad about people...so we will just talk about his car

1) Mismatched wheels. I have one mismatched wheel on my car and you know where it stays? On my driveway. Tire blew out and is just there till I can throw all my winter wheels on. New hardware coming in mail. In other words...car should have sat and never left the driveway. Should have sat there till it hatched.

2) Dark tint on rear and the front...not sure if trash bag or silver colored sourced cheap tarp material.

3) Looks as if he tried to do a burnout...right as soon as the front tries left his driveway. No smoke?!?! Don't smell that burning clutch?!?! And no smoke that should accompany burning tires?!?! Sounds like throttle applying was up there too...for a while...till...lololol

[Royal769sr]

Lol

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Wide-66]

Thanks, it's already bolted up, but I should be able to check the tone ring still.

To verify the tone ring which was my issue, at TDC the blank in the tone ring should be at about 10 o clock looking at the back of the motor.....which is in line w the cps i believe.

[ianwpb]

Thanks guys. I'll check it out.

you can still verify the step up. The voids for PP straps are usually machines right in plane with friction surface and should be very easy to verify if that's the case. If so (99.99999% certain it is), then you can verify the step up by measuring it directly on the side of FW/PP stack.

To verify the tone ring which was my issue, at TDC the blank in the tone ring should be at about 10 o clock looking at the back of the motor.....which is in line w the cps i believe.