crank case/valve cover pressure/blow by

[Fast4esT]

perhaps this belongs in the questions I'm too afraid to ask category but here it goes

1.8t with IE rods and JE pistons motor built in Salt Lake City in 2010. bought car in 2012, spoke with the mechanic who did the engine work and he said the motor was built loose to handle high boost.

when I got the car it had the 034 vortex catch can that had a filter on top venting to atmosphere. It would always leave any oily residue mess around itself and would stink. This spring I finally rerouted the crank case/valve cover back to the TIP with a Saikou Michi catch can using 3/4" lines and the pcv pancake valve between CC and TIP.

I still get the oil smell inside the car, the catch can just blows oil straight out from the drain.

Im curious if the drain could have a bad seal or if there is too much pressure going through it.

oil consumption does not seem to be an issue, just under the full mark after 3000 miles and never see drops on the ground

do I have a problem? CC is mounted at passenger side in front of shock mount, pretty level with valve cover

[jacobsen]

Check out the provent

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

So in other words this is normal operational behavior? Just need a better Cc?

[jacobsen]

So in other words this is normal operational behavior? Just need a better Cc?

Pretty much, but you should know the health status of your PCV system before you go trying to modify it with s catch can. What the provent does is filter the air and the solid vapor. The two are separated, the air goes into the tip and the oil sinks to the bottom and can be returned to the crankcase. There is also an optional one-way valve that prevents the oil which is draining down from the provent into the crankcase from reversing back up the line. There's one issue here, in order to install the oil drain from the provent into the crankcase you will need to either drill a hole in the bottom of the block and install a port for a hose to go on to or which I think is a better idea drill a hole and connect a port on to the metal dipstick tube towards the bottom. Either way I think the valve is a good idea. If someone has a better idea on draining the provent accumulation into the crankcase it would be good to hear. I would be worried about the water vapor collecting as it does in catch cans also working its way back into the crankcase. I know a couple people who would have good input on that. Let's hope they read this post.

[blitz2190]

Pretty much, but you should know the health status of your PCV system before you go trying to modify it with s catch can. What the provent does is filter the air and the solid vapor. The two are separated, the air goes into the tip and the oil sinks to the bottom and can be returned to the crankcase. There is also an optional one-way valve that prevents the oil which is draining down from the provent into the crankcase from reversing back up the line. There's one issue here, in order to install the oil drain from the provent into the crankcase you will need to either drill a hole in the bottom of the block and install a port for a hose to go on to or which I think is a better idea drill a hole and connect a port on to the metal dipstick tube towards the bottom. Either way I think the valve is a good idea. If someone has a better idea on draining the provent accumulation into the crankcase it would be good to hear. I would be worried about the water vapor collecting as it does in catch cans also working its way back into the crankcase. I know a couple people who would have good input on that. Let's hope they read this post.

not worth the effort to drain it back in, there shouldn't be enough in there between oil changes to warrant drilling a hole somewhere, just empty it at every oil change and you'll be fine.

[jacobsen]

not worth the effort to drain it back in, there shouldn't be enough in there between oil changes to warrant drilling a hole somewhere, just empty it at every oil change and you'll be fine.

I've seen people comment that they have a considerable amount of water in their.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[blitz2190]

I've seen people comment that they have a considerable amount of water in their.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

in the catch can? yeah there can be all the more reason to not route it back into your crankcase. I did get some in between my last oil changes and I just empty the catch can every change. Did this on both the 1.8 and 2.7

[Fast4esT]

I'm more concerned about the amount of pressure, I should pull the hose from the can to the top and see if/how much residue is in it. I'm curious as to why there is an oily mess below my catch can instead of inside it. I have the drain valve tightened closed all the way it goes. I'll double check that too.
I mentioned the previous vented set up I had because that one mad a mess, I would get watery/oily most that would fly out of the filter on top of the 034 can.
I figured if that was normal then venting a cc to atmosphere is a dumb waste of money, why not just run a line to the road instead? But I wondered and still do, is oil residue not supposed to come out of the filter on a vented setup?

And what does built loose actually refer to, lower tolerances? More blow by?

[jacobsen]

I'm more concerned about the amount of pressure, I should pull the hose from the can to the top and see if/how much residue is in it. I'm curious as to why there is an oily mess below my catch can instead of inside it. I have the drain valve tightened closed all the way it goes. I'll double check that too.
I mentioned the previous vented set up I had because that one mad a mess, I would get watery/oily most that would fly out of the filter on top of the 034 can.
I figured if that was normal then venting a cc to atmosphere is a dumb waste of money, why not just run a line to the road instead? But I wondered and still do, is oil residue not supposed to come out of the filter on a vented setup?

And what does built loose actually refer to, lower tolerances? More blow by?

Well if the tolerance between the Pistons and the block is loose then that means that the Rings are not sealing as tight as they could be. This is because increased boost pressure causes more friction on the block cylinder walls and piston rings. So therefore making a looser tolerance allows for higher boost because it creates less friction. So basically everything you say makes pretty good sense. If the tolerance between the Pistons and the cylinder walls loose that means more Blow by gases are able to pass over the Rings into the crankcase. Which would mean yes, you might see more PCV pressure. Which the stock PCV system and the way the motor is design isn't designed to do.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

Thanks mr Jacobson , that's what I've been curious of since I bought the car. It came from Salt Lake City and I know they have emissions testing there, makes more sense

[jacobsen]

Thanks mr Jacobson , that's what I've been curious of since I bought the car. It came from Salt Lake City and I know they have emissions testing there, makes more sense

What kind of tune, boost and turbos are you using? Increasing the ring tolerance would most likely cause worst emissions. And if there's any kind of emissions testing they're certainly not going to enjoy the catch can venting to atmosphere.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

GT2871r running 25psi with Unitronic 630 file

Pulled the CC out to inspect it, inlet had creamy tan sludgy goo in it, exit was clean and the pipe from CC to tip was also clean, so it looks like the catch can is doing part of its job. I tried blowing into it to see if it was leaking from the valve but I couldn't get it to leak.

[jacobsen]

GT2871r running 25psi with Unitronic 630 file

Pulled the CC out to inspect it, inlet had creamy tan sludgy goo in it, exit was clean and the pipe from CC to tip was also clean, so it looks like the catch can is doing part of its job. I tried blowing into it to see if it was leaking from the valve but I couldn't get it to leak.

That's a fairly Hefty set up. The reason the oil is becoming mayonnaise is because there's a mixture of air, water and oil and there. This sounds silly but some guys are out of coolant line around their catch can. Circulating hot coolant. Or position them close to the converter or downpipe. That watery crap can sludge up your PCV valve... Food for thought. Maybe try the provent, it might fix your problem. It's a good unit.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

thanks

[jacobsen]

thanks

Or vent that line to another catch can.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

i do have 2 catch cans and have thought about that

[old guy]

You really shouldn't be getting that much blow-by. Have you checked your PCV valve to make sure it isn't all gunked up? Is your PRV operating properly?

Personal opinion is that if the block breathing system is properly maintained you really don't even need a catch can. I recently replaced my head and when I pulled everything down there was only a thin film of oil coating the boost hoses and the intake ports and valves were spotless after 225k miles.

If you use a catch can it has to be one that can flow freely in both directions. Otherwise you stop the block purge air and increase the build up of the exact thing that you are trying to prevent.

[jacobsen]

@schooled

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Fast4esT]

Old guy, I just put this together since before it was just vented to atmosphere as when I bought it, the only cave I have is the flat hockey puck looking valve between the can and tip. Is there another valve needed? This is what I've gathered from reading old posts

[old guy]

First consider how the block breathing system operates without a catch can. When the intake manifold is under vacuum (which is most of the time you are driving) the PCV pulls purge air through the block. This air enters the block through the PRV (pancake valve) at the back of the valve cover (or on the TIP in a 2002 model) and exits the block through the PCV valve. The air entering through the PRV comes from the TIP after the MAF sensor so the ECM knows about it and compensates accordingly.

This flow of air pulls out all of the blow-by gasses and displaces the moisture that builds up from the condensation that occurs from the daily hot/cold cycles. Especially in the winter. You know that condensation that you see from your exhaust line during a cold weather cold start? Well the same thing occurs inside the block and it also needs to be purged out.

The PRV flows air in both directions. Without going into all the details it essentially regulates the amount of air the PCV can pull when the intake manifold is under vacuum and it also regulates the amount of vacuum the TIP can pull on the block when the intake manifold is under boost. When the intake manifold is under boost the PCV shuts down and any pressure build up exits through the PRV.

If you put a catch can between the PRV and the TIP it has to be one that can flow air in both directions. Otherwise it blocks the purge air that should flow from the TIP to the PRV through the block and out through the PCV when the intake manifold is under vacuum. If it can't flow in this direction you end up concentrating the moisture vapors and blow-by gasses in the block and all you get is a pressure release for block pressure build up that gets scrubbed by the catch can before it enters the TIP. That's why you are seeing all of the moisture build up in the catch can.

So back to my original statement. If the PRV and PCV are operating in unison you can keep the block actively purged and prevent the build up from occurring in the first place.

[Fast4esT]

Does not have a pcv valve installed. Uh oh

[old guy]

Does not have a pcv valve installed. Uh oh

So that definitely explains why you are seeing all that gunk in the catch can. The condensation and blow-by vapors are being allowed to concentrate in the block. Without any purge air through the block what is happening is that you are simply venting any pressure build up in the block through the catch can. There is no active displacement of the vapors. Just a collection of whatever gets pushed through the catch can.

[5ktq]

PCV valve is kind of hidden in the rubber tee that hangs off the nylon "L" coming out of the oil filter housing / baffle thing. So maybe you've got it and can't see it.

[Fast4esT]

Thanks for the info, in going to dealer to get pcv parts and correct this. After reading the older posts about deleting and simplifying the pcv system I thought the pcv itself was not needed. Thank you for the help

[jacobsen]

That's really really bad idea. You can wreck your bottom end pretty fast with that water quenching your oil and lower end components like cylinder walls, Pistons, rings and main bearings. I noticed that when my thermostat went bad I was building up a considerable amount of water in my PCV system. It was literally Pasty throughout the PCV system when I replaced the thermostat the temperature rose to operating temperature and all of that nasty Gunk melted from higher temperature. I didn't believe it until I saw it.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[jacobsen]

Thanks for the info, in going to dealer to get pcv parts and correct this. After reading the older posts about deleting and simplifying the pcv system I thought the pcv itself was not needed. Thank you for the help

The PCV system is absolutely needed in this car. Even with modifications. 034 Motorsport sells a Billet aluminum PCV valve which you might benefit from cuz it's a little more heavy duty. With your setup it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the whole kit.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[lyates1987]

The thread that ends all PCV delete threads lol