Using the TTS on the track and as a DD

[mossback]

To ammend this original post: I was looking for HDPE type mods for my daily driver\track toy, here is list of the items that I have changed, I tried to list them in order of appearance\install with occasional notes. Some of these items deserve there own post, which may happen.

APR STG1
Forge Motorsports Cold air intake: a bit fussy on the install but not terrible, just wasn't fully plug and play: Excellent turbo noises
Turbo intake, turbo muffler delete.
034 Sub frame bushings and inserts: Not a big change, maybe a little bit of NVH, maybe...
Ground Control Camber plates: great for negative camber beyond -2, definite increase in NVH

APR SGT2
AWE Down Pipe with High Flow cat and NO resonator: nice sound especially on warm up, in sport mode the shifts really bark under WoT.
H&R Rear Sway ONLY: helped rotation, not as good as stock in the wet, but its ok and the car is more lively.
StopTech Trophy ST60-355 6 piston brakes upfront and stoptech slotted rotors rear, high temp fluids 660
CarboTech XP8 track pads; squeaky on the street, but superb on the track.
HPA 75a full dog bone replacement: really tightened up the shifts. NVH noticeable

Bilstein Club Sport coil-overs with camber plates: more NVH but actually not bad. Firm yet smooth ride with rebound and compression adjustable.
KW DDC delete: didn't work; returned.
iSweep Mag Shock delete: Works great!!



I have come to loath looking for information on what "others" have done to improve the performance of their mbq mk3 TTS. So much fluff and garbage out on the webs. I suppose its due in part to the low volume these cars represent. Taking that into account, what we are left with is the bulk of posters talking about things they have no experience with and that they only use the car on the road as daily driver. I hope to use this as means to communicate real settings and changes that make the car handle supremely.
I am on the track a fair bit, I coach for 5 different groups, so get to see how this mbq TTS compares to a lot of others cars, and as my car sits now it holds up really well. It is all subjective as I can't account for the other drivers as to their skills and its only track days after all. That said, here is what I have done so far and the results:

Camber plates: -2.2 degrees neg camber front, that is the max with Ground Control Camber plates (the only no cut option for camber plates that I know of, the others require you to cut the strut towers some) I will post up the exact settings when I get back to my office and find the spec sheet from the alignment.
Rears are set to: IIRC -1.7

StopTech ST-60 355MM Trophy kit brake kit: I killed the stock 4 piston setup with 660 fluid after 2 sessions, got about a 25% brake loss, it was sudden too, figure it was overheating and I baked the pads. No problems what so ever with the new setup. Running the ST performance street pads front and some junk I could find for the rears, ST doesn't make rear pads yet, unfortunately there is still little to be had for the rear pads. Carbotech will "make" me a set if I ship them a donor plate from the ATE rear brakes> I have a spent set and intend to do just that. Will most likely go with XP8's all around for track use.

Changed out my 20" wheels for some light weight 18x9 Neuspeed wheels and 255\40\18 Bridgestone RE71r, this was a huge improvement in both acceleration, stopping and corner forces. I just installed a set of 265\35\18 Pirelli Trofeo R's and have only done one Very Wet track day on them, so far I am impressed as long as the temps stay above 45 degree's. The 20's will go back on for winter till I can source decent set of 18" wheels with winter tires> Tricky bit about this car is the wheel offsets. ET50 is the stock 20" the Neuspeeds are ET45.

I have had to figure out what fits by gambling a bit, I bought a Forge Motorsports Cold air intake for a Golf R, it fits with very minor mods, this looked to me to be the best intake in terms of unobstructed air flow into the airbox. I am pretty happy with it, though not fully into the foam filter that comes with it.

APR Stage 1 (incl DSG) was a good increase in power: had the car on a dyno and it put down 292whp and 365wt. Not the HP numbers I was lead to believe I would get, based on APR's charts. I figured out that APR uses a really low drive train loss factor. The torque was outstanding based on the that particular dyno, this was a dynojet with unlinked rollers if that makes a difference.

APR Stage 2 (incl DSG) with AWE downpipe and High Flow cat = a little more power, the car is just a little bit faster and it sounds FANTASTIC. If you like the sound a turbo 4 makes, its is a bit menacing, you really hear the shifts now with the windows down. I was bouncing off the rev limiter before, as the car was too quite with stock exhaust: this is still the stock exhaust from the Downpipe HFC back.

I want: To install lowering springs but haven't got the MRC thing sorted yet, last night I installed an HR rear sway bar to see if I can get even less corner exit understeer. I would welcome some off throttle oversteer to help tighten up the line when needed. I also have the usual suspects of subframe inserts from 034 to help tighten things up.

[RandyL]

The TT/TTS has caught my eye lately too so good to see your post. One of the things I noticed on the TTS vs. the TT is the bigger brakes, I had guessed they would be ok on the track and therefore one less thing that needed to be improved -- good to know that they're still not up to snuff. I had to do some brake improvements on my S4 as well.

Overall though how does it handle? I'm told that the Mk 3 TTs have a different quattro system that provides more rear bias, but the proof is in how it feels in real life cornering or on the track.

[aaronz]

Don't waste your time on the turbo muffler delete thing, if I didn't get mine for near free I would not have bought it.

Sounds like you did rear sway, end links as well? 034 aren't adjustable if that's what your looking for and I found the hardest setting was too much. Subframe inserts stiffen it up some, and the trailing arm upgrades by 034 were a nice addition.

Was hoping you'd send your front pad plates off so we could get some pad options with the stock calipers, congrats:bummer you upgraded to the ST. I don't know how long I'll keep this car so don't want to replace the stock calipers, just did SRF and was slightly better.

I like my 034 intake, sounds good and works well.

When you say stg 2 is a little bit faster, is it instantly noticeable or do you have to kinda "feel/look" for it? I guess I'm asking for you to define little vs stg 1 with TCU.

I was holding out for MSS kit but still nothing so I have the Eibach kit, with proper MRC part # for the TTs (the s3 golf R MRC approved kit is a different sku)

Looking forward to your insights, how hard we're your camber plates to install?




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[mossback]

The TT/TTS has caught my eye lately too so good to see your post. One of the things I noticed on the TTS vs. the TT is the bigger brakes, I had guessed they would be ok on the track and therefore one less thing that needed to be improved -- good to know that they're still not up to snuff. I had to do some brake improvements on my S4 as well.

Overall though how does it handle? I'm told that the Mk 3 TTs have a different quattro system that provides more rear bias, but the proof is in how it feels in real life cornering or on the track.

I think the stock TTS brakes would be "enough" had I been able to find a better compound that the stock "cardboard composite" pads that came with them. With nothing but stock dealer compounds from ATE, I bit the 3500.00 bullet and installed the ST-60. I had those brakes on my 12 Avant, and really appreciated how they held up to that nearly 4000 lbs estate car. On the TTS, they are happy with the stock street compound, as it weights about 3200 lbs. It handles like No Audi I have had before: 09 A4, 12 Avant, and now this. It rotates. I could toss the avant around the track and get the rear to come lose in a few corners but not when I really needed it.

I have heard that said by the dealer but can't find ANY positive truth that the TTS has a "75% rear bias while in Dynamic and sport mode" Pretty much getting zero on my searches on that subject. The REAR will come around, I have in the wet lost rear grip on many different corners when I was pushing a bit. I have been able to chase down and passbcompeting brands, and get a few stop and talks in the pit from surprised drivers. The MBQ MK3 TTS is not a "hairdressers" car.

[mossback]

Don't waste your time on the turbo muffler delete thing, if I didn't get mine for near free I would not have bought it.

Sounds like you did tear away, end links as well? 034 aren't adjustable if that's what your looking for and I found the hardest setting was too much. Subframe inserts stiffen it up some, and the trailing arm upgrades by 034 were a nice addition.

Was hoping you'd send your front pad plates off so we could get some pad options with the stock calipers, congrats:bummer you upgraded to the ST. I don't know how long I'll keep this car so don't want to replace the stock calipers, just did SRF and was slightly better.

I like my 034 intake, sounds good and works well.

When you say stg 2 is a little bit faster, is it instantly noticeable or do you have to kinda "feel/look" for it? I guess I'm asking for you to define little vs stg 1 with TCU.

I was holding out for MSS kit but still nothing so I have the Eibach kit, with proper MRC part # for the TTs (the s3 golf R MRC approved kit is a different sku)

Looking forward to your insights, how hard we're your camber plates to install?

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I did the turbo delete and the Turbo Inlet, still running the stock FMIC. I am not convinced this car needs it.

Stage 1 with TCU was huge improvement (being about to hold manual gears (2-6) to the rev limiter is really worth the price of admission on the TCU tune).

Stage 2 was a nice boost in the right direction but not like stock to stage 1. I will be getting it back on the dyno soon and want to see the After effects of Stage 2.

So you found an eibach kit for cars with MRC? (ABT says they have a kit) I not sure that the VagCom even needs tweaking when lowering the car, with height sensors at all 4 corners seems it would be self adjusting, did you have to?.

I have been reading that magnetorheological shocks are the future (present) of suspension control. Considering how many Super\Hyper cars are coming stock with this type of shock...think we have a dumbed down version of the R8 dampers.

The MSS kits looks like the right way to go, to allow you have height adjustments, especially if you would like to corner balance your ride, I can tell that my car likes to turn left more than right due my 170lbs load in the drivers seat. Adjust the left side to compensate for the load and you have a fairly well balanced car.

[mossback]

Camber plates were a bit of work, you have to remove the front strut assembly, I paid Achtuning in Seattle to do it for me. Its not quite a perfect fit, the plastic cover is bumped up a bit from the tower bolts, not a big deal, you'd hardly notice but going from less than -1 degree to -2.2 was huge.

[aaronz]

I'll circle back with my installer (dealership) if adaptation was needed. I mentioned it to them pre install and said it might be needed but don't know if it was or not.

Do your stock 19"s clear with the st-69, or more so the launch edition wheels if that's an option? I'm hoping someone comes out with a front pad soon, these stock pads are just pure junk.


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[mossback]

Mine came with 20" wheels and I bought a set of 18" wheels, they clear just fine with the ST-60 355mm, looks like you might be able to squeeze a 17" on it but wouldn't even try.

[chrisngrod]

This is looking to be a good thread... Thanks for sharing.

I'm torn between waiting and getting a TT-RS or upgrading my TTS. Other than just a badge, I think the TTS can achieve some pretty good performance numbers on its own. The brakes have not given me the confidence to push the car to its limits.

Likely path of upgrades:

1) Stillen AP Racing 6 piston BBK. 2 piece slotted rotors, 335x32mm
2) Milltek non-catted DP and catback exhaust
3) JB1 --> APR Stage II w/ TCU tune

Great gains from the JB1. Just think the APR should be matched up with the TCU tune and right now there is no TCU tune available from Burger Motorsports. Perhaps with the JB4 they might dive into it.

Thanks mossback for confirming which kit you used and thanks to aaronz for the Eibach part number. I've had the PN added to a large distributor here in the states. Should arrive in the next couple of months.

[mossback]

I too would have gone the way of the TTRS had that been an option, but I wanted a car, and I wanted a car now. So after 5 min test drive the TTS was mine; Porshce Cayman GTS be damned. I really was going to get the cayman, but for 20k less the TTS is value. I have spent about 10k to get the car wear its at now and its fast, handles well and I can stay with much more expensive cars and feel happy calling this a sports car. Making 377 hp (apr #) and 400 plus ft lbs (apr#) is outstanding. Never tested launch control, but leaving pit lane to straights the car hauls ass. Not sure you need to go Cat-less DP, I don't have any CEL with the AWE DP, I think because its "real" cat, it was also about the most expensive DP (1100?)

What is the eibach part number? Is this the one you used? # E10-15-022-01-22??

[aaronz]

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[mossback]

How do the modes work now that its lower? Same? dynamic, auto, comfort?

Have you had this set up on the track?

[aaronz]

Same and yes, I wouldn't say they have moved into another category; i.e. Comfort doesn't fee like comfort -1, Auto doesn't feel like dynamic and dynamic doesn't feel like rocks. Comfort feels the exact same, as does auto (and that could be because Auto I believe is comfort until a set of parameters is met) , dynamic feels the same over daily road bumps maybe slightly less give to bumps. Dynamic for sure has less squat under acceleration and decel. I was at an autocross recently and car felt solid. It was wet in the morning and perfectly dry in the afternoon. Caveat is I also had the the RTABs (034) installed at the same time, so it's not a true judgement over stock. I will say this, car is on rails on stock rubber and I bested multiple R compound cars and came close to beating pure auto x R compound cars. I won my class (E - everything other than BMW, R compounds and Minis) which included Subarus, s2000, miatas, Nissan Silva swapped with a LS (my buddy's car and he won fastest time for the day but I was just under two seconds off his pace). Anyways car felt awesome, it's winter time now so I won't have it back at a track track until spring time (Autobahn Country Club).

Here is the video of dry (external) and wet (internal) from that Autocross, I still have to load my PLX and Harry LapTimer data overlays onto it, so that will give some idea of the corner forces....again on stock summers with 12k miles and a few track days on them at this point.

https://youtu.be/RlcMOj3lhUE


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[mossback]

Looks, good, what tune are you running? Does the passenger help balance the corners??

[aaronz]

APR stg 1 and TCU


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[aaronz]

Passengers because they couldn't believe how well the car was doing, so it was for fun more than times and in the morning when it was wet none of the R compound guy's really could run.



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[mossback]

what are you running for rubber? 19"?

[aaronz]

Yeah the forged 19"s, stock summer rubber Pirelli I believe, I have a set of PSS waiting to go once these are done. Contemplating what to do for dedicated track wheels and I couldn't make a decision so I did nothing this year.


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[chrisngrod]

Boss has a GT4 so I am staying away from any Cayman...

Anyways it would be nice to find a slightly wider wheel / tire instead of running spacers. Doesn't look like anything will keep the speedo correct though. Choices of tires seems limited in this overall diameter.

My brakes are squealing like a banshee. I might be replacing them earlier than I thought.

[mossback]

Perform a 'bed-in' procedure, you most likely just have road glaze that needs some heat to burn off.

I am currently running 265\35 18 on my Neuspeed RSe10 wheels with an offset of 40. The stock 20" wheels have a ET50 at are sporting 255\30.

[anti suv]

Thanks for posting. Its nice to here opinions fom people who track there car. I really like how the tt is able to fit wide tires pretty easily. I would love to see some pics of your wheel and tire setup.

[mossback]

if it was easier to post pictures I would.

[aaronz]

Use tapatalk app, hosts and posts it for you automatically


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[mossback]

Use tapatalk app, hosts and posts it for you automatically


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Another thing I Loathe: More Apps. I resist.

[anti suv]

Another thing I Loathe: More Apps. I resist.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated by the apps. Joking a side. I use tap talk too and its works pretty well.

[mossback]

lol.

Yeah I know but still, some forums are discontinuing the Tapatalk app.

Letting some third party into my private life, that bugs me. Facebook is bad enough, I am growing tired of its targeted ads. I am sick and tired of seeing TireRack ads, 034, ECS tuning....


I am going to start googling Animal husbandry so I can get some new ads.

[chrisngrod]

I think I'm done.

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[aaronz]

I think I'm done.

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We need a better pad pronto



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[mossback]

lol... Torque vectoring.

[chrisngrod]

Does this car have torque vectoring (brake based)? As I walk around SEMA and AAPEX I wonder why I didn't bring pads to give to someone credible. Probably cause I'm swapping like mossback lol.

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[mossback]

Does this car have torque vectoring (brake based)? As I walk around SEMA and AAPEX I wonder why I didn't bring pads to give to someone credible. Probably cause I'm swapping like mossback lol.

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Yes, indeed. I turn my ESC off and go for the 10 second press at the track, otherwise I get shut down at the least amount of wiggle. I set my rear pads on fire with my Avant at one track event, when I forgot to turn that junk off.

I leave it on while on the street, but then I don't push it on the street. Give me snowy parking lot and that junk is off. The fun police.

[mossback]

I just ordered the new Ground Control Sleeve overs ((GC 140.64.83, 5 1/2", 2 1/2" ID Front, 475 lbs\inch) (0700.250.0650, Rear)) with adjustable ride height, should have it next week. Also needed some adaptors for the GC camber plates to go from stock spring to GC spring.

Will report back when done installing. Will have do some winter test an tunes to really find out how its doing.

The springs are linear and the rates suggested to me are 475 front and 650 rear, the rears seemed high but with the springs massively inboard, the leverage effect says we need it this high.

Do these rates seem ok?

[aaronz]

Moss I take it you are in a warm climate? Lucky bastard


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[chrisngrod]

Yes, indeed. I turn my ESC off and go for the 10 second press at the track, otherwise I get shut down at the least amount of wiggle. I set my rear pads on fire with my Avant at one track event, when I forgot to turn that junk off.

I leave it on while on the street, but then I don't push it on the street. Give me snowy parking lot and that junk is off. The fun police.

I think I mentioned earlier that when I turned it off I had a drivetrain error (track) and never turned it back on after coming in and power cycling.

ESC didn't come on too much.

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[mossback]

Moss I take it you are in a warm climate? Lucky bastard


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Seattle> A temperate rain forest, snow is pretty rare but copious amounts of rain lately. Have you been to Wet coast?

[mossback]

I think I mentioned earlier that when I turned it off I had a drivetrain error (track) and never turned it back on after coming in and power cycling.

ESC didn't come on too much.

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Do you have VCDS? Did you pull the error codes?

[chrisngrod]

Do you have VCDS? Did you pull the error codes?

No I don't and the dealer might have cleared it out when they did the oil change? There was no mention of it.

I'll have to get a cable.

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[mossback]

Definitely worth the investment, get the Ross-Tech version: its the best:http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/VCHUC.html

[aaronz]

Definitely worth the investment, get the Ross-Tech version: its the best:http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/VCHUC.html

+1


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[chrisngrod]

I went past their booth a few minutes ago =).

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