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  1. #1
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Bonz's timing chain thread!

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    So I finally have started the process of pulling the engine. Between setting up the area, assembling my new tools, this his how far I got on Saturday.




    Is raising the rear end a must?
    Last edited by Bonz099; 11-16-2016 at 10:08 AM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Don't know if it's necessary but I did because it made crawling under there easier. I've just pushed my wife's car into the heated garage to reassemble, but then I've taken 12 months to get this far...

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings Lucca M's Avatar
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    Its not but def easier to work if you have 4 corners in the air. Good luck! I get this far in 30 minutes after taking the front end 272828 times haha
    2004 Black RS FAUX B6
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  4. #4
    Active Member Two Rings mace115's Avatar
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    B7 S4 DTM, 2017 Ram 1500
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    2 questions out of curiosity.

    How many miles on the motor?

    Was there a failure with part of your timing system or are you doing the service as a preventative measure?
    "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
    2008 S4 DTM

  5. #5
    Senior Member Three Rings REVOofRustler's Avatar
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    But seriously, it's cool seeing this! Who knows, maybe the value of our cars will go up a bit now that people are tackling this on their own (wishful thinking, but whatever)!

    As far as getting the rear up, it'll help a lot when taking off the catback. It was a squeeze for me even with the back tires off the ground while I was on a creeper. It'll also help a bit if you end up taking the slave cylinder out of the car and have to rebleed it like I did.
    2004 S4 Avant 6MT Dolphin Grey
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mace115 View Post
    2 questions out of curiosity.

    How many miles on the motor?

    Was there a failure with part of your timing system or are you doing the service as a preventative measure?
    I've got 90k on the block, and I hear a ass puckering crunching sound for like 2 secs every time I cold start the motor. Hopefully when im done I can start to enjoy the damn thing. Its always been in the back of mind and in a way prevented me from fully enjoying the car. It just feels like a dice roll to destroy the engine every time I cold start it.

    Im tackling a ton of shit. Valve seals, front and rear seals, JHM cam adjusters, new chains, JHM crank pulley, new powder coated valve covers and seals, and shit loads of misc seals and gaskets. TBH, im trying to get the motor as sound as possible so that when Q_dubz finish his turbo kits, I can put one on. ;)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REVOofRustler View Post


    But seriously, it's cool seeing this! Who knows, maybe the value of our cars will go up a bit now that people are tackling this on their own (wishful thinking, but whatever)!

    As far as getting the rear up, it'll help a lot when taking off the catback. It was a squeeze for me even with the back tires off the ground while I was on a creeper. It'll also help a bit if you end up taking the slave cylinder out of the car and have to rebleed it like I did.
    Is removing the exhaust 100% required?

  8. #8
    Active Member Two Rings mace115's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonz099 View Post
    I've got 90k on the block, and I hear a ass puckering crunching sound for like 2 secs every time I cold start the motor. Hopefully when im done I can start to enjoy the damn thing. Its always been in the back of mind and in a way prevented me from fully enjoying the car. It just feels like a dice roll to destroy the engine every time I cold start it.

    Im tackling a ton of shit. Valve seals, front and rear seals, JHM cam adjusters, new chains, JHM crank pulley, new powder coated valve covers and seals, and shit loads of misc seals and gaskets. TBH, im trying to get the motor as sound as possible so that when Q_dubz finish his turbo kits, I can put one on. ;)
    Best of luck with everything! I plan on doing something similar to mine in the near future so I'll be subscribing to the thread.
    "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
    2008 S4 DTM

  9. #9
    Senior Member Three Rings REVOofRustler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonz099 View Post
    Is removing the exhaust 100% required?
    It's probably possible, but I think it would be more of a pain. It's easiest to have the downpipes come out with the motor, so maybe see if you can dosconnect the catback from the downpipes without actually removing it.
    2004 S4 Avant 6MT Dolphin Grey
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  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings
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    No it's not necessary to remove the exhaust. I've just pulled my gearbox so I can replace the synchros and all I did was disconnect the slip joints and then unbolt the downpipes to allow extra clearance. I dont think you will need to disconnect the downpipes if you're pulling the lot in one go.

    Bonz099 - How do you plan on doing the stem seals? I want to do them in situ but i'm not sure if it's possible.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooblah View Post
    No it's not necessary to remove the exhaust. I've just pulled my gearbox so I can replace the synchros and all I did was disconnect the slip joints and then unbolt the downpipes to allow extra clearance. I dont think you will need to disconnect the downpipes if you're pulling the lot in one go.

    Bonz099 - How do you plan on doing the stem seals? I want to do them in situ but i'm not sure if it's possible.
    Jimmybones is local to me and has the special 5v tool to do it with the heads on. But you may be able to accomplish the same thing using other tools. Ive heard of many old school mechanics using balloons inflated through the spark plug hole to hold the valves from dropping to pull the springs while the heads are on.

    Ive found that this engine is a bit of technical challenge to work on, but is very rewarding.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    So I think I may have an issue, I put the key in, and nothing happens..... ;)







    Managed to get everything out and only broke the coolant connector on the back of the engine. I just hope its not a 60 dollar part, as I only need the plastic piece. Ill start the timing service tomorrow. Pretty amped, it really wasn't too bad.

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4NIK8's Avatar
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    If you broke the connector for the heater core lines you can buy just the connector from VW, last time I checked it was around $25 but still cheaper than a line was.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4NIK8 View Post
    If you broke the connector for the heater core lines you can buy just the connector from VW, last time I checked it was around $25 but still cheaper than a line was.
    Awesome, any idea on the part number?

  15. #15
    Veteran Member Four Rings badger.'s Avatar
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    https://www.ecstuning.com/ES441708/

    8E1819371S

    not cheap. broke this same one lol
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Three Rings REVOofRustler's Avatar
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    Lol I broke that one too. If you replace the hose, it's luckily super easy.
    2004 S4 Avant 6MT Dolphin Grey
    | JHM Tune | JHM Short Throw Shifter Trio Package | Fast Intentions Dual 2.5 Resonated Catback | JHM 4:1 Center Diff | BC BR Type Coilovers | Hotchkiss Rear Sway Bar
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Fuck, oh well, thanks guys!

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings gcoy's Avatar
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    Managed to get everything out and only broke the coolant connector on the back of the engine. I just hope its not a 60 dollar part, as I only need the plastic piece. Ill start the timing service tomorrow. Pretty amped, it really wasn't too bad.

    I did the same thing. I replaced both rear hoses. You will never have a better chance to do it again

  19. #19
    Senior Member Two Rings icanfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoy View Post
    Managed to get everything out and only broke the coolant connector on the back of the engine. I just hope its not a 60 dollar part, as I only need the plastic piece. Ill start the timing service tomorrow. Pretty amped, it really wasn't too bad.

    I did the same thing. I replaced both rear hoses. You will never have a better chance to do it again
    Gcoy - Make sure you've got a solid bolt management plan. A quick tip is to draw the back of your motor on a large sheet of cardboard, and then punch holes for all the bolts in the location they go. There are many different sizes etc. and having this made my life 100% easier.

    good luck!
    slow is fast...

  20. #20
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4NIK8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonz099 View Post
    Awesome, any idea on the part number?
    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...er/3b0122291b/

    This is the straight connector, you will want a clamp as well obviously. Much cheaper route than replacing the entire hose if it is in good condition still.

  21. #21
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4NIK8 View Post
    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...er/3b0122291b/

    This is the straight connector, you will want a clamp as well obviously. Much cheaper route than replacing the entire hose if it is in good condition still.
    you sure that fits on the S4? If so that's awesome, I just wish I had konwn about this before I replaced the whole hose! I searched everywhere trying to find a replacement for just the plastic piece that would fit our cars and couldn't. One person on a forum said he tried one that was listed for a different application (which I'd assume is the one you linked to, unless you can vouch that you've used it on an S4) and said it didn't fit.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S4NIK8 View Post
    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...er/3b0122291b/

    This is the straight connector, you will want a clamp as well obviously. Much cheaper route than replacing the entire hose if it is in good condition still.
    Effing awesome! Thanks man!

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4NIK8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2004B6S4 View Post
    you sure that fits on the S4? If so that's awesome, I just wish I had konwn about this before I replaced the whole hose! I searched everywhere trying to find a replacement for just the plastic piece that would fit our cars and couldn't. One person on a forum said he tried one that was listed for a different application (which I'd assume is the one you linked to, unless you can vouch that you've used it on an S4) and said it didn't fit.
    Yes I have, replacing another one today with it.

    Are you planning on replacing any additional parts while the engine is out? I generally like to replace the water pipe o-rings and oil cooler seals as it is very minimal additional cost and much easier with it out of the car. Are you doing a check valve kit? If not I would replace the seals for the oil filter housing as well.
    Last edited by S4NIK8; 10-31-2016 at 11:06 AM.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Do the exhaust collectors "HAVE" to be removed?I know the the downpipes need to, but I'm just concerned if I need to order new gaskets....

  25. #25
    Veteran Member Four Rings Nollywood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonz099 View Post
    Do the exhaust collectors "HAVE" to be removed?I know the the downpipes need to, but I'm just concerned if I need to order new gaskets....
    The collectors don't need to be removed. Although if you did remove it, the steel laminate gasket is reusable, unless the header is super corroded.
    2007 Audi RS4 Avant B7 - Misano Red Pearl Effect
    2007 Audi RS4 Saloon B7 - Sprint Blue
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  26. #26
    Established Member Two Rings
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    I'd say remove them and port them, along with the exhaust ports in the head.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooblah View Post
    I'd say remove them and port them, along with the exhaust ports in the head.
    Now thats a thought............ :)

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Three Rings S4NIK8's Avatar
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    most of the gains in the head would be found from working the bowl area, not going to happen with the valves in place.

  29. #29
    Established Member Two Rings
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    That's true, but it can't hurt to give it a go. It certainly helps to open up the inlet ports with the head in situ. Gasket match everything. That's what I'll be doing very soon.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    And the saga continues.........







    So im putting the new chains in. What do I torque the tensioner bolts to? the T35 ones. I also loosened 1 bolt that the guide "rides" on, what does that get tightened to?

  31. #31
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Whelp, Jimmybones came over today to help me replace the valve stem seals and we found 3 cylinders with bent valves on the passenger side and stopped. So now I need to lift the heads and so some more work. I didn't even bother to check the driver side. I had 90k on the block, which I suspect is not the original of the car, with only a small amount of cold start rattle. The car pulls super strong, but i cant in good faith put it back together like that. This makes me think anyone with even marginally cracked guides likely has bent valves even to a tiny amount. I guess ill find out how much left down the rabbit hole I have to go. If I pull the heads and see scored walls I may just loose it.....

  32. #32
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    how did you determine that they were bent?

  33. #33
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Cams were removed, inserted a tool into the sparkplug hole and filled the chamber with 90psi. Massive blow by on intake valves.

  34. #34
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    hmmm... I never really checked mine, I just assumed since it was still running well and making good compression (on the lower end but still within spec) that it must not have bent any valves. I guess I should've tried a leakdown test...

  35. #35
    Veteran Member Three Rings
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    Which cylinders?

    3, 4 on mine had 17% and 13% leak down, respectively. Escape was out of the intake side. The pitch would change if you put your fingers in more than knuckle deep. All other cylinders were between 3% and 7%.

    Pre-repair compression test on mine was 115 and 155 psi (cyl 4) for those cylinders.

  36. #36
    Veteran Member Three Rings Velox's Avatar
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    This stuff scares me, I have a half a second cold start rattle, and as much as I want to believe audi's "it's normal" statement, I read too many stories about cracked guides with no symptoms other than a cold start rattle

  37. #37
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velox View Post
    This stuff scares me, I have a half a second cold start rattle, and as much as I want to believe audi's "it's normal" statement, I read too many stories about cracked guides with no symptoms other than a cold start rattle
    Not to scare you more, but this EXACLTY how mine was...... i mean take a look to see how "complete" my lower guide was.....

  38. #38
    Veteran Member Four Rings Terry.Reese's Avatar
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    Mine does that and is quiet afterwards, no rattle on warm start though, but i get s shimmy every once in a while, I have new 034 mounts going on soon though. hopefully that resolves it

  39. #39
    Senior Member Two Rings Bonz099's Avatar
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    Im hoping this weekend I can lift the heads and see 100% what im dealing with. Im just hoping with all this money ive put into this thing so far I dont have any serious scoring on the cylinder walls. :/ *fingers crossed*

  40. #40
    Veteran Member Three Rings 0396's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonz099 View Post
    Whelp, Jimmybones came over today to help me replace the valve stem seals and we found 3 cylinders with bent valves on the passenger side and stopped. So now I need to lift the heads and so some more work. I didn't even bother to check the driver side. I had 90k on the block, which I suspect is not the original of the car, with only a small amount of cold start rattle. The car pulls super strong, but i cant in good faith put it back together like that. This makes me think anyone with even marginally cracked guides likely has bent valves even to a tiny amount. I guess ill find out how much left down the rabbit hole I have to go. If I pull the heads and see scored walls I may just loose it.....
    You are one talented and lucky person to have Jimmy cone by to help you.
    I just wish you guys lived out West in the LA area...
    If you did, I would be happy to pay you to do the timing service on my car.
    Congrats with your progress.
    0396

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