Doing valve seals while engine is out? Need professional help

[kevinye77137]

Hello so Im deciding to do valve seals as well when I pull my engine out for timing service. This requires removing 4 camshafts. If I were to put everything in TDC ( camshaft and crankshaft) first, then mark where the chains should be aligned with the sprocket, remove the camshafts and bear caps, organized as it was removed and then place it back after, will it still be in time with the crankshaft? Since doing valve seals requires TDC for each piston, will I mess up the timing? Will reinserting crankshaft locking pin always give me TDC on cylinder 8? Thank you It seems like a stupid question but I want to make sure if there is anything im missing doing this process.

[REVOofRustler]

It's going to be a lot easier to just reset the timing the standard way. Make sure to replace all four cam bolts as well. If you're using a JHM kit, they only come with the two bolts for the intake cams. I ended up ordering bolts for the exhaust cams as well through ECS. They're different lengths from the intake cam bolts, which I found out after ordering more of the same bolts from JHM.

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES471421/

[kevinye77137]

It's going to be a lot easier to just reset the timing the standard way. Make sure to replace all four cam bolts as well. If you're using a JHM kit, they only come with the two bolts for the intake cams. I ended up ordering bolts for the exhaust cams as well through ECS. They're different lengths from the intake cam bolts, which I found out after ordering more of the same bolts from JHM.

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES471421/

Thank for the input. What is the standard way? I am not planning to unbolt the cam bolts but instead taking out the electrical adjuster housing/guide which holds the camshafts and the cam caps as a whole piece. This minimize buying the bolts and possibily stripping the cam bolt

[neilpaku]

Hard to say Kevin. I can see your theory - question is whether you'll be able to execute it as accurately as following the standard timing method. However, I fwould be interested in seeing your results. If you follow your plan, you can still check timing at the end after refitting the components. If you find that the timing is out, you can always re-try your method and if all else fails, using the standard method. One thing that I found though is that there is a dowel locating the adjuster body that bolts to the head. you would need to slide the body with can and components forward enough to clear that dowel, about a quarter inch if I recall correctly. The other challenge might be if the body gasket needs replacing. I'm not sure if the paint stripping off the gasket disqualifies it from reuse but if it does, you might find that an issue too. But again, you can always revert to the standard method if this doesn't work out. You're only going to be down four cam sprocket bolts, assuming you're going to use the cam timing tools to verify that your method has resulted in correct timing.

The standard timing method is what's outlined in the service manual, which is basically to use some timing bars in the front of the cams to align them with the crank at TDC, and then tighten up the cam sprocket bolts (paraphrasing - there's a bit more to it than that).

[kevinye77137]

Hard to say Kevin. I can see your theory - question is whether you'll be able to execute it as accurately as following the standard timing method. However, I fwould be interested in seeing your results. If you follow your plan, you can still check timing at the end after refitting the components. If you find that the timing is out, you can always re-try your method and if all else fails, using the standard method. One thing that I found though is that there is a dowel locating the adjuster body that bolts to the head. you would need to slide the body with can and components forward enough to clear that dowel, about a quarter inch if I recall correctly. The other challenge might be if the body gasket needs replacing. I'm not sure if the paint stripping off the gasket disqualifies it from reuse but if it does, you might find that an issue too. But again, you can always revert to the standard method if this doesn't work out. You're only going to be down four cam sprocket bolts, assuming you're going to use the cam timing tools to verify that your method has resulted in correct timing.

The standard timing method is what's outlined in the service manual, which is basically to use some timing bars in the front of the cams to align them with the crank at TDC, and then tighten up the cam sprocket bolts (paraphrasing - there's a bit more to it than that).

Thank you for input! Oh yes I forgot to add on that I will be using timing bars where the front of the engine is. I would say that the markings will tell me how many chain links are between gears ( assuming it is in time) and which way should the cams be facing. If I were to remove the camshaft adjuster and sprockets the markings will be useless and will give me a harder time for the correct chain placement. (unless there are specs for that) Hmm interesting to hear about the dowel on the adjuster body, I will try the adjuster way and If it does not work I will have to take out the cam adjusters. Also another good point with the gasket. If the gasket needs replacing, I will have to make sure if the gasket is able to slide right through of all the camshaft lobe. Judging by pictures on the cams, It seems like there are moving spaces between the cam journals for the dowel but will not be 100% sure unless I see it in person.

[2004B6S4]

I don't want to say for sure but I don't think you're going to be able to get the cams out without removing the sprockets first, then the chains, then the cams. Which means you'll have to re-time it the standard way as it says in the manual. It's really not that hard as long as you have the tools and the manual and you follow the instructions. The crank lock pin can only be inserted all the way when the crank is in the correct position, which iirc is bdc on #8. You can look into the hole where the lock pin goes and see another hole for it in the crank if it's lined up correctly.

[kevinye77137]

It's going to be a lot easier to just reset the timing the standard way. Make sure to replace all four cam bolts as well. If you're using a JHM kit, they only come with the two bolts for the intake cams. I ended up ordering bolts for the exhaust cams as well through ECS. They're different lengths from the intake cam bolts, which I found out after ordering more of the same bolts from JHM.

https://www.ecstuning.com/ES471421/

Is the cam bolts for exhuast side or intake?

[neilpaku]

There is a long bolt for the intake cam, and a short(er) bolt for the exhaust cam. They both go to 100NM if I recall correctly. The intake cam has the mechanical adjuster mechanism with integral sprocket, and the exhaust cam has a plain flat sprocket. Whatever you end up doing, do check the wear on the adjuster. Remove the five capscrews securing the sprocket and take a look at the pin recess hole for elongation, and the pin itself for slop

[REVOofRustler]

Is the cam bolts for exhuast side or intake?

That one is for the exhaust cams. It's the one that's not included in the JHM kit

[kevinye77137]

The reason why I think this is possible is because the cam cap right at the end ( #12) is able to be removed and don't need the mechanical adjusters to be taken out. As you can see I can probably just lift up the camshaft with the adjuster housing and cam sprocket still attached. The only problem I see right now is if the gasket needs replacing, I am not sure if its doable