Woke up my Ko3 with 20$ and 20 mins

[jonjon88ss]

A month or so ago my car was only boosting 17 psi max on a stage 2 tune and just didn't feel as fast as it used to be. I concluded after years of abuse, the wastegate spring on the turbo just isnt strong enough to hold that little door shut anymore with the higher than stock exhaust pressures trying to blow it open and leak by. At first I tried jimrobbington's wastegate adjustment thread ( http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ate-Adjustment ) boost was back up to 19 psi, but it made the car run really weird, made it idle really high, and made the turbo really really hot. I popped the hood after a nice drive and everything was red hot, you could see the heat waves rolling out of the engine compartment like I opened a bbq lid.
I then wound the adjustment back and did some searching, came up with this:
Went to Home Depot and bought this specific pack of springs
[IMG][/IMG]
Took the 2 longer springs and hooked one of the springs to the end on the adjustment screw cover, then the other spring hooked to the first spring because only one fits through the adjustment screw cover.
[IMG][/IMG]

On the other end, I hooked both springs to the hose nipple coming out of the can. The spring's resistance are only 5 pounds each, so i was not worried about damaging anything by hooking them in these 2 spots.
My thought was worst case scenario, the heat will wear the springs out, loosing their 5 pound resistance or maybe it will pop of the waste gate adjustment screw cover.....the spring will just hang in there and Ill be back to my lame boost levels.

These are the threads were I got the idea. The theory of what I'm doing is thoroughly explained here: http://www.myaudis4.com/wastegate-helper-spring/

And here you can find more pictures and more success stories: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...tor-Spring-Mod

The car now runs normally for me cruising around town, lean into it and boost shoots right up to 20psi crazy fast then tapers itself off, holding 12 psi at redline. Underhood temps are down significantly. Its been this way for 2 months now, I have driven it from NY to H2oi, beat on it pretty good down there on the strip, then drove it home, zero issues, amazing gas mileage. Its been to Das Laufwerk and back this past weekend with some healthy backroad beating, and no issues. You can buy an aftermarket wastegate with stiffer springs or you can do this. If you're suppose to be running 20psi with your tuning and your not, give this a try. If you have stock tuning, do not do this.

[S4NIK8]

Did this on my old B5, not sure why I hadn't considered doing it to the B7 as well. Some tunes might not play nice with this, MTM did on my B5. What tune are you running? I may give this a try with my APR setup.

[Copen-cisco]

Interesting. I might give this a try later this weekend. Easy to access under there?

[jonjon88ss]

JHM stage 2 93 octane. So far no issues

Its not easy trying to hook the springs while also stretching them in that little space but its doable, I used a long needlenose pliers to help.

[Copen-cisco]

JHM stage 2 93 octane. So far no issues

Its not easy trying to hook the springs while also stretching them in that little space but its doable, I used a long needlenose pliers to help.

Thanks.

[Charles.waite]

FYI this isn't the greatest idea on a b7. But yea, I guess if it works???

[Okedokey]

This is surely not good for a working turbo though?

[Charles.waite]

Not really. Remember adding boost pressure to a tune that calls for X amount of pressure doesn't mean you get more power, at least not safely.

IF you're underboosting because the wastegate is hosed then yea maybe it'll temporarily restore wastegate function. Could be that the OP's flapper is cakes with carbon and wasn't sealing when closed and was always bleeding off a few PSI of pressure. If you clean off the flapper in theory it should solve that problem more permanently than a helper spring.

The spring treats a symptom, it doesn't cure the problem. Hence me saying it's not the greatest idea.

[jonjon88ss]

My turbo has around 73,000 miles on it, could be carbon holding it open, could be the old wastegate spring getting weak, whatever it is this corrected it. The N75 valve is still in full control of everything. My boost still falls within whats requested by the tuning and this is a whole lot safer than the "wastegate adjustment". As long as you let the turbo cool down before you shut the car off I don't see what could go wrong here.

[S4NIK8]

Adjusting the wastegate pressure up a few psi shouldn't be an issue at all as long as it's done within reason. I'm not saying changing it to 20 pounds is a good idea at all but taking it from 7~ to 10 shouldnt pose any issues with all of the ecu controls these cars have.

General rule for turbo stuff seems to have always been the wastegate should be no less than half the max psi intended.

[Charles.waite]

Actually it can pose issues. Wastegate pressure =/= boost pressure. If the wastegate is off, even a few psi, lots of driveability issues crop up.

As I said before, manually overriding electronic systems is a dangerous game. It's like the numbskulls in the b5/6 forums who talk about doing the diode mode and how it's "perfectly safe". Well it's not.

I'm not trying to be the OEM police, just want to make sure people know what's going on when they do this and that it's not a "free boost" situation.

[S4NIK8]

I'm not advocating it for increasing boost higher than the levels that the car is requesting. I'm also not suggesting unhooking or disabling any of the electronic monitors.

Out of curiosity have you ever actually tried this or used one of the forge actuators with a heavier than stock spring?

[Denio24]

This is a good option for people running stage 2 tunes for people running on the k03 to get a more accurate boost response to what the ecu is calling, and probably a cheaper option than the forge wastegate. I wouldn't doubt it that the stock k03 spring is not strong enough to resist more exhaust gas flow and that adding a couple of springs really wouldn't hurt anything. I would definitely try this rather than increasing from the original preload specification.

[S4NIK8]

I think the best option for this discussion (and hopefully I have time in the next week or so) would be to log - boost actual v requested, wastegate duty cycle, and measure the cracking pressure stock then adding these springs and repeating.

[wootwoot]

This is a novel fix. Many of the higher mileage B7's seem to lose boost and nobody has been able to provide a solution beyond jimrobbington. I'm at 95k miles and peak around 18-19 psi when I used to hit 21 on a JHM stage 1. I'd be curious to see if this fixes the low boost issues that other high mileage B7 owners report.

[Charles.waite]

I think the best option for this discussion (and hopefully I have time in the next week or so) would be to log - boost actual v requested, wastegate duty cycle, and measure the cracking pressure stock then adding these springs and repeating.

This. Logs for sure.

And I'm not necessarily slamming you on this. Mostly the people who are thinking that this is fixing come inherent flaw or will somehow "fix" something. In certain cases it can help restore function to an iffy wastegate, but it's not really solving the inherent problem.

[S4NIK8]

Fully agree on that Charles; I wish I had a new wastegate actuator to test as well, assuming that with the age these things are at now that the springs have softened up some as well. If the spring is softening over time this could function as a presumably much cheaper way of fixing that compared to buying a new actuator if you can even buy one without a turbo

[CVTwhatadumidea]

Ever get logs done?

[DeathBlow]

I'm having a similar issue but I'm going to try and run logs first so i can see what is the requested and actual boost, Maybe something else is up I have already replaces the N75 valve and checked the hoses.

[00_Bora]

I'm going to try this and see if it helps with my stock PSI. I used to hit 12 pretty easily but now struggle just to reach 8 as a peak....not to mention my rattle during deceleration.

[S4NIK8]

Ever get logs done?

Sorry I haven't, been tied up with work. I should have a little time soon to get ones without the additional springs though.

[Okedokey]

Sorry I haven't, been tied up with work. I should have a little time soon to get ones without the additional springs though.

update?

[CVTwhatadumidea]

Did this today. Seemed to not make much of a difference. Went from boosting 14.5 to as much as 16psi though. However, I am noticing when I hit above 15 psi in 5th and 6th gear; there is significant vibration that occurs at peak boost. Then it goes away. Could this have anything to do with running the stock PRV?

[jonjon88ss]

Raced some crazy souped up diesel truck last week and beat it no problem, its been about 3 months now with the springs, car is still running strong. This is my original ko3 and has around 76,000 miles on it right now. Now that its colder and dryer out ( in NY ) the car really rips, I would love to post a video on here if someone is willing to explain how to do it.

Hey CVTisadumbidea, have you checked for boost leaks before adding the springs? Maybe your clutch is starting to slip at peak? My car still has the stock PRV in it, smooth as silk in all gears ( tiptronic ).

[Danzzo]

How exactly do you hook the springs up? I fiddle with it forever and I can see the "can" of the waste gate and the food that goes behind the heatshielded oil line for the turbo but can see past that.

Is there a step by step on where the springs actually hook to?

[jonjon88ss]

On the can that you see, in the middle of it is a little nipple with a rubber hose attached to it. I hooked one end of both springs around that metal nipple, then the other end of the springs hooked on to the cover thing that goes over the adjusting screw for the wastegate rod. There is a picture at the top of this thread of that. There are more pictures of the whole idea in the links I provided in my first post.
I admit, it is a little hard keeping the spring stretched out while also maneuvering the spring end hooks around each attachment point. Its a tight spot, I jacked the car up, laid on the ground and used long needle nose pliers and a small right angle pick. Your hands are going to hurt and it going to probably take a couple of tries, but you're going to love that test drive when your done

[CVTwhatadumidea]

Raced some crazy souped up diesel truck last week and beat it no problem, its been about 3 months now with the springs, car is still running strong. This is my original ko3 and has around 76,000 miles on it right now. Now that its colder and dryer out ( in NY ) the car really rips, I would love to post a video on here if someone is willing to explain how to do it.

Hey CVTisadumbidea, have you checked for boost leaks before adding the springs? Maybe your clutch is starting to slip at peak? My car still has the stock PRV in it, smooth as silk in all gears ( tiptronic ).

You may be right. So I forgot that the tune may need to learn the new adjustment to hardware. The car now seems to boost a little better on the 93 and 91 octane Stage 2+ APR tune. I've gone from hitting 14.5 to 17psi. Here is what I found really interesting... I switched to the stock tune and went from hitting 8-10 psi to 13.5. So this definitely seems to work, but I appear to have another issue somewhere.

[Charles.waite]

Here's the thing, you shouldn't be hitting 14 on a stick tune. Max you should see is 11-12. You're essentially adjusting the wastegate out of spec and slowing it to overboost, just not enough to throw a code and send you in to limp mode.

I know this is lost on people in here, but this "fix" doesn't really fix anything. All you're doing is adjusting the wastegate out of spec with the misguided idea that more boost = more power.

CVT= if you're hitting 14.5 on a stock tune but only BARELY 17 on a stage 2+ there is a seriously large leak somewhere. You should be hitting 22 or so.

[TX-A4]

Just wanted to add my experience. I recently did this exact thing after finding the Vortex thread for the 1.8Ts

I posted my experience and pictures on this thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ate-Adjustment

Other than hooking the springs slightly differently (see my pics on the thread I linked), pretty much did the same thing as the OP, and have had the same results.

I logged before and after and also tested the wastegate by adding pressure (air compressor to the wastegate nipple) while adding the springs to make sure I did not add too much resistance beyond what the tune is asking for (APR 2 - 93 Oct).

I certainly don't see how this is "not a good idea" on the B7s, which are now high in miles and have "tired" stock wastegate springs and leaking wastegates.

It maybe a "bandaid", but if you are underboosting and have checked everything else, and wind up where some of us have, this helper springs sure make sense before dropping money on a new or aftermarket wastegate actuator, let alone a new turbo.

[vvenom800tt]

interesting

[Danzzo]

I've been steady spiking to 21psi and holding at 13-15 for about a year now.

Only issue I have is a hesitation at WOT when accelerating

[deusilan]

My experience for y'all.
Funny how this thread came back up. For the longest time I've been going through the engine looking for the problem. After going stage 1, replacing everything (turbo, GFB DV, MAP sensor, ER SMIC's, CTS Silicone Hoses, etc) and smoke testing the car with my homemade smoke machine this is the only thing left. When I changed my turbo, for about a week I was spiking 17-18 psi and holding 15 steady. Now it's just about 13 psi all the time. Going to try the waste gate adjustment and then this. I already bought the springs feeling that I'd have to do it eventually lol.
The waste gate adjustment link really provides good insight into the problem.
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...ight=Wastegate

[deusilan]

Just wanted to add my experience. I recently did this exact thing after finding the Vortex thread for the 1.8Ts

I posted my experience and pictures on this thread:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ate-Adjustment

Other than hooking the springs slightly differently (see my pics on the thread I linked), pretty much did the same thing as the OP, and have had the same results.

I logged before and after and also tested the wastegate by adding pressure (air compressor to the wastegate nipple) while adding the springs to make sure I did not add too much resistance beyond what the tune is asking for (APR 2 - 93 Oct).

I certainly don't see how this is "not a good idea" on the B7s, which are now high in miles and have "tired" stock wastegate springs and leaking wastegates.

It maybe a "bandaid", but if you are underboosting and have checked everything else, and wind up where some of us have, this helper springs sure make sense before dropping money on a new or aftermarket wastegate actuator, let alone a new turbo.

I'd say it's more than a band-aid fix, more like adding a cane or a walker lol

[TX-A4]

My experience for y'all.
Funny how this thread came back up. For the longest time I've been going through the engine looking for the problem. After going stage 1, replacing everything (turbo, GFB DV, MAP sensor, ER SMIC's, CTS Silicone Hoses, etc) and smoke testing the car with my homemade smoke machine this is the only thing left. When I changed my turbo, for about a week I was spiking 17-18 psi and holding 15 steady. Now it's just about 13 psi all the time. Going to try the waste gate adjustment and then this. I already bought the springs feeling that I'd have to do it eventually lol.
The waste gate adjustment link really provides good insight into the problem.
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...ight=Wastegate

If I'm you, I'd do the springs first before messing with the wastegate rod adjustment.

[deusilan]

If I'm you, I'd do the springs first before messing with the wastegate rod adjustment.

I'm almost finished with the charge air device to plug into the waste gate though lol.
It's almost a preference to try and adjust the waste gate, seems proper to get the screw in its correct position.


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[RoguesGambit]

Something tells me that JHM is working on a K03 wastegate upgrade of some sort

That said though, would consider trying this

[vvenom800tt]

Something tells me that JHM is working on a K03 wastegate upgrade of some sort

That said though, would consider trying this

Id be ok with that. I have this dreaded rattle on decel as well.

[walky_talky20]

The underlying problem here is that you guys are running very high boost on a very light spring. Generally speaking (in the aftermarket turbo world), you don't want to run more boost than about 2x your wastegate spring pressure. Audi is already pushing past this to teh limit with stock boost peaking over 10psi and spring pressure at less than 5psi.

Once you chip the car, boost is doubled to around 20psi - approximately 4x the wastegate spring pressure. As such, it is really not surprising to have problems at this point due to very high exhaust pressure pushing the gate open.

Adding an external spring is sort of a band-aid. Carefully increasing the wastegate pre-load adjustment is also a band-aid, but probably preferable as you can actually dial in the amount you want.

[vvenom800tt]

Doesnt forge make an aftermarket wastegate with different springs

[vvenom800tt]

To the OP,

If you used the two LONGER SPRINGS, then they are 8.6 pounds tension each. Which makes your wastegate 17.2 pounds in total.

Are you sure you used the long ones? I just picked these up, and the short ones are 5.3 pounds each, and the long ones are 8.6 pounds each.