Seeking turbo upgrade advice (copied from Tech Forum - Induction Motors)

[kermac]

Hi

Not sure which forum works best for turbo advice on a 1.8T Mk 1 TT ...

I have a 2001 model TT225 Quattro 6-spd Roadster with the later BAM (Euro wideband) motor. It already has a software upgrade from excellent local guru QMS. This turned the car from sluggish into sportyish.

I’m planning an engine upgrade and have done a fair bit of research with inconclusive results. Basically, a lot of the write-ups are old and there’s a fair bit of hearsay in some of them (isn’t this the internet we all know and love??). And of course everyone has a different opinion …

I am looking for power of at least 300 hp and preferably closer to 350. But I don’t want to do a built engine – I’m thinking minimalist. So … no rods, no head/cams and preferably no FMIC or exhaust. I would consider a manifold and/or a downpipe, but don’t really see the need for a larger MAF housing or TIP/intake pipe.
What I’m thinking is:

• GTRS (no bigger than 2860) or hybrid
• Possibly exhaust mani/downpipe
• Injectors
• Possibly water/meth injection

And a software upgrade (of course).

If the mani and/or DP were to be upgraded, it would make sense to do so at the same time as the turbo. However, if extra cooling were needed, this can be added later. I have a FIS-Control unit in the car which gives me real-time readouts on the DIS of Air Intake Temp … as well as EGT, AFR, Boost etc. (Beaut little system which does away with all the gauges but I don’t yet have on-screen labels on each of the values so I have to guess which of the presets I have selected at any given time). This will give me an idea of how hot the motor is running. In addition I can log timing pulls etc on vcds (or on FIS with a bit of fiddling with the washer stalk).

I also have a 1.8 b5 A4 with full St3+ treatment including GTRS, ATP mani, 3” exhaust and excellent Snow Performance W/M injection system, so I’m familiar with the pros and cons of this including the beautiful smoothness, the ability to maintain power way beyond 6000 AND the lack of anything much below 3,400. I can live with all that BUT how safe is the BAM motor with a GTRS, injectors and not very much else? How much would the factory mani and DP restrict the power delivery?

Anyone done a minimalist build of this type on an early TT or S3?

[hunTTsvegas]

Hi

Not sure which forum works best for turbo advice on a 1.8T Mk 1 TT ...

I have a 2001 model TT225 Quattro 6-spd Roadster with the later BAM (Euro wideband) motor. It already has a software upgrade from excellent local guru QMS. This turned the car from sluggish into sportyish.

I’m planning an engine upgrade and have done a fair bit of research with inconclusive results. Basically, a lot of the write-ups are old and there’s a fair bit of hearsay in some of them (isn’t this the internet we all know and love??). And of course everyone has a different opinion …

I am looking for power of at least 300 hp and preferably closer to 350. But I don’t want to do a built engine – I’m thinking minimalist. So … no rods, no head/cams and preferably no FMIC or exhaust. I would consider a manifold and/or a downpipe, but don’t really see the need for a larger MAF housing or TIP/intake pipe.
What I’m thinking is:

• GTRS (no bigger than 2860) or hybrid
• Possibly exhaust mani/downpipe
• Injectors
• Possibly water/meth injection

And a software upgrade (of course).

If the mani and/or DP were to be upgraded, it would make sense to do so at the same time as the turbo. However, if extra cooling were needed, this can be added later. I have a FIS-Control unit in the car which gives me real-time readouts on the DIS of Air Intake Temp … as well as EGT, AFR, Boost etc. (Beaut little system which does away with all the gauges but I don’t yet have on-screen labels on each of the values so I have to guess which of the presets I have selected at any given time). This will give me an idea of how hot the motor is running. In addition I can log timing pulls etc on vcds (or on FIS with a bit of fiddling with the washer stalk).

I also have a 1.8 b5 A4 with full St3+ treatment including GTRS, ATP mani, 3” exhaust and excellent Snow Performance W/M injection system, so I’m familiar with the pros and cons of this including the beautiful smoothness, the ability to maintain power way beyond 6000 AND the lack of anything much below 3,400. I can live with all that BUT how safe is the BAM motor with a GTRS, injectors and not very much else? How much would the factory mani and DP restrict the power delivery?

Anyone done a minimalist build of this type on an early TT or S3?

The problem is that in this case the rods are going to be your limiting factor. It's been found consistently that anything generating more than 300 ft/lb TQ will absolutely result in a bent/broken rod. If you're serious about going with an aftermarket turbo, I wouldn't do so without changing the rods otherwise you won't get much return for your investment. I ended up with a K04 hybrid w/billet wheel, ported my exhaust manifold, no head/cam work other than replacing valve stem seals and guides, full exhaust w/catalytic converter, etc. I did opt to drop in rods as well as new bearings but stuck with stock pistons as they're rated to handle near 600hp. If you don't want a FMIC then you could either purchase Tyrolsport or HPA aftermarket SMICs as the factory side mounts wouldn't cool anything larger than a stock turbo efficiently.

Also, while you don't see the need for TIP/Intake/Exhaust. Those factory components are designed for efficient flow with the factory turbo. If you're going to upgrade that, you can't expect it to perform to it's potential without providing supporting parts. It'd be like asking that turbo to drink through a coffee straw. Food for thought.

[kermac]

Are the rods in the wideband TT engine that much more fragile than those in the AEB motor in the A4? I have had a GTRS and full exhaust etc installed in my 2000 A4TQ for years and the only internal I've ever changed is the clutch. It seems to be unbreakable.

The other thing is that I'm not looking to wring every last ounce of power out of the installation. If I can get another 60-80 kW (80-100 hp) out of the motor I'll be well satisfied. Don't know what this would translate to in torque.

I appreciate your advice on SMICs, TIPs, exhausts etc. It's just different to what many others - including some of the tuning companies - say in relation to a minimalist conversion. But I don't want to dissuade you from passing on your experience and knowledge. A lot of folks pass on advice with none of the above...

[hunTTsvegas]

Are the rods in the wideband TT engine that much more fragile than those in the AEB motor in the A4? I have had a GTRS and full exhaust etc installed in my 2000 A4TQ for years and the only internal I've ever changed is the clutch. It seems to be unbreakable.

The other thing is that I'm not looking to wring every last ounce of power out of the installation. If I can get another 60-80 kW (80-100 hp) out of the motor I'll be well satisfied. Don't know what this would translate to in torque.

I appreciate your advice on SMICs, TIPs, exhausts etc. It's just different to what many others - including some of the tuning companies - say in relation to a minimalist conversion. But I don't want to dissuade you from passing on your experience and knowledge. A lot of folks pass on advice with none of the above...

Understandable. No issues. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I can't speak to the AEB motor as I have no experience with it's internals but I don't think they would be too much different. Best of luck with your car!