Audizine - An Automotive Enthusiast Community

Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 10 2012
    AZ Member #
    93325
    My Garage
    2013 s4, 2008 cbr1000rr
    Location
    United States

    Comparison between stock, Chipwerke, and APR stage 2 w/TCU tune

    Guest-only advertisement. Register or Log In now!
    This will be a relatively short review and comparison between stock, Chipwerke piggy, and APR v3.1 stage 2 with tcu tune. Let me start by saying I have no affiliation with any company, I am a private consumer who likes to go fast. *Insert Ricky Bobby quote*

    My car before my 2013 S4 was a 2010 Lancer Evolution X MR. The MR was a fun car that became too “boy racer” for me…it grew tiring having every Honda civic-like car trying to race me…The EVO’s dual clutch transmission supplied rapid shifts yet was clunky at low speeds/while in traffic. Switching to the S4 was an immediately different driving style.
    The Evo’s 4 banger needed to be revved out for any kind of power or fun, where the S4 was strong from low RPM to midrange, sadly the S4 falls on its face anywhere past midrange. I first started experimenting with the Chipwerke after @bhvrdr started his detailed thread, rich with data and first hand experiences (since then the thread has been locked). I began conservatively, having only 92 octane available to me. I started my Chipwerke pro on 3-1. The power bump was noticeable, mainly from higher RPM’s. However, there was a noticeable power bump even at lower RPM’s when the Chipwerke was set to 4-1 and 5-1….I assume this has to deal with throttle sensitivity manipulation (purely speculation). When on the higher Chipwerke settings (4-1, 5-1) a delay in power after shifts became a constant battle. It was as if after a shift the stock boost level would come in then the Chipwerke would change the signals and then the upper level of boost would kick in. It made for a building effect rather than flat power curve. The delay seemed to be weather/elevation dependent, sometimes the delay would be unnoticeable and sometimes the delay would be painfully long. Ultimately the Chipwerke supplied a cheap alternative to a full tune, offering a bump in power with only a few drawbacks.

    I took advantage of the APR Oktoberfest sale jumping to stage 2. Comparing initial drivability between stock and the Chipwerke, APR’s stage 2 with tcu tune is refined with stock drivability. In fact, at light/partial throttle you can’t really tell there is any aftermarket tuning done. I assume this is what APR wanted, to retain stock drivability during daily driving while adding fun factor at more aggressive throttle inputs. Midrange is strong with stage 2. Coming from a large turbo setup where power grows slowly initially then rapidly until redline, having the supercharger powerband is interesting. There is constant acceleration from low to midrange making it hard to perceive power building/exactly how quickly you are accelerating, those who have transitioned from turbo to supercharger know what I mean. I was expecting more UMPH at higher RPM’s/from a roll, again I think this may relate to the feeling of the supercharger powerband and how it feels vs a turbo. Power from a dig is violent. This things really launches now. I assume the tcu tune is a large piece of this brutal launch. However, the tcu tune has flaws.
    One major flaw from factory I was looking to resolve was the time between shift input vs response time. No doubt this transmission shifts quickly, however the time between toggling for the next gear and the actual shift is appallingly slow. The tcu tune did not resolve this annoyance for me. Shifts happen quicker (actual mechanism of shifting), but the time between toggling for a new gear and actually shifting into the new gear is still annoyingly slow. This is experienced most during partial/light/medium throttle. Selecting the next gear isn’t the fluid and rapid transition that I hoped it would be. While accelerating at partial throttle shifting into a higher gear often comes several hundred RPM past initial shift input. I understand this transmission is more polished for daily driving situations than the Evo’s SST, but I expected quicker shifts from a relatively expensive tcu tune. Maybe there is a way to increase shift sensitivity that I’m not aware of, however I drive solely in Dynamic or with my individual settings shifted toward dynamic so it is hard to tell. The APR tcu tune has a “user adjustable” launch control. The stock launch control has a predetermined launch RPM. Basically once launch control is activated, you put your foot on the brake and other foot on the accelerator (completely depressed) and the RPM’s jump to the specified level (3k RPM for stock software). With initial trials stock launching is easier and more consistent. APR’s initial setup for launch control is the same as stock’s; however, the amount of pressure applied to the accelerator correlates with the launch RPM. Light throttle input initiates a 3k RPM launch, and heavy throttle input (completely depressed) initiates a 5k RPM launch. I want a 4k RPM launch, and I have had troubles with applying the right pressure to initially activate 4k RPM launch sequence, maybe this is user error and will be corrected in time, maybe it is a funky system. I would rather have the ability to set the launch limit parameters and be able to fully depress the pedal to achieve the desired launch RPM every time with ease.
    Another anomaly that I have experienced has to do with the transmission shifting at WOT in auto or sport mode. After each shift the transmission stutters, causing a momentary loss of forward acceleration. I know this topic has be covered in other forums posts and APR is working on solving this problem, but it actively still persists. I hoped the problem would be fixed before a major sale. Using manual mode vs auto/sport helps with the shifting stutter/power delay slightly. It is still persistent and not as buttery smooth as daily driving has been with the stage 2 tune.

    Ultimately I am happy with the product. When I first thought about getting stage 2 with the tcu tune I thought I would be launching all the time, but honestly it is a brutal launch that I will reserve for special occasions. The added power during daily driving is fun, while retaining stock-like drivability. I appreciate the added redline of the tcu tune, but think it misses the mark in overall shift quality and shift input speed. It is hard to judge by other people’s videos if their DSG only shifts rapidly during the actual mechanism of shifting or if it also shifts rapidly from user input. Obviously it is subjective, but I feel my shift input still lags from what would be acceptable from a sports sedan (I know this is God’s chariot not a vicious sport machine). I look forward to APR’s revision of the tcu tune, to smooth out the DSG WOT shifts. Any and all input on quickening shift after user input would be greatly appreciated. This is my take on the APR stage 2 with tcu tune in relation to other power modifications I have tried. I have only logged a couple hundred miles with the tune so I’m sure my evaluation of this upgrade will change overtime.


    J
    Last edited by DBL R; 10-12-2016 at 12:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Sep 13 2015
    AZ Member #
    355390
    Location
    North

    If you want 4k, either learn to keep your foot off the kick down for that setting, or go and have your dealer reflash your max launch to 4k instead of 5. Easy fix there.

  3. #3
    Veteran Member Four Rings XxSullyxX123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 04 2015
    AZ Member #
    318447
    My Garage
    2020 Jeep Unlimited Wrangler Rubicon Recon, 2023 Honda Pilot Elite
    Location
    Somers, NY, USA

    Nice write up. I'm a week into my ChipWerke. On 6MT with 93 octane in NY it's quite smooth on 5-1 on a stage2 box. Murat recommended it this way to 6MT 93oct folks. As I said in another thread, I see how the CW can be a gateway drug though to either higher power or smoother full tunes. although I don't want so much power I blow through the stock clutch! Never launched my car before, and never bang gears (had a bad experience with a blown tranny in a Subaru doing this) so my clutch would likely hold up to a stage 2 full tune and pulley if I ever go that route for daily driver.
    2016 S4 P+ | Mythos Black | DSG | Blk Optic Pkg | Blk Nappa Leather | Tech Pkg | B&O | Carbon Inlays | Supercharged Badges ||| - SOLD
    2015 S4 P+ | Monsoon Grey | 6MT | Blk Optic Pkg | Blk Nappa Leather | Tech Pkg | Supercharged Badges | AudiGuard ||| - SOLD

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings cspcrx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04 2013
    AZ Member #
    106838
    My Garage
    2009 Tacoma, 2007 Harley Softail, 1986 Honda CRX
    Location
    Phoenix, az

    Great review. I went straight from stock to stage 2 and have to agree with a lot of your findings.

    Just the other day I took mine in for a 65k service and switched it back to the stock file, I paid for program switching so I have stock, 91, 93 and 104. I left work and thought I must not have changed it because it felt very similar, but was just driving like a normal person. I went to get on the freeway and I felt the difference, I lost hyperspace mode! LOL

    Picked the car up and switch it back to the 93 file I normally run in. Drove a few miles and was curious if I had switched it back correctly. Got on it, yep hyperspace was back! LOL
    2012 Ibis P+ / DSG / Silk Napa / B&O / Sport Diff. / ADS lite / MMI & Nav / APR Stage 2+ & TCU Tuned / Ultra Charger / 184mm KI LIL BITCH / ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Technik Intake / AMS Alpha Cooler / ECS 2-Piece Rotors / Akebono Pads / VMR 803 19x9.5 ET45 265-35-19 PSS / ECS Drivetrain Bushing Inserts / CR-15

    11.8 @ 116mph 2487DA on 93oct file Stage 2+

    THEN THEN THEN Rinse & Repeat!

  5. #5
    Account Terminated Three Rings
    Join Date
    Jun 28 2016
    AZ Member #
    375269
    Location
    US

    Quote Originally Posted by cspcrx View Post
    Great review. I went straight from stock to stage 2 and have to agree with a lot of your findings.

    Just the other day I took mine in for a 65k service and switched it back to the stock file, I paid for program switching so I have stock, 91, 93 and 104. I left work and thought I must not have changed it because it felt very similar, but was just driving like a normal person. I went to get on the freeway and I felt the difference, I lost hyperspace mode! LOL

    Picked the car up and switch it back to the 93 file I normally run in. Drove a few miles and was curious if I had switched it back correctly. Got on it, yep hyperspace was back! LOL
    Why did you bother using program switching to drop it to stock and take it in for service? Did you not want the techs to have some fun with Stage 2 or something... I'm asking because I'm hoping you didn't think what you did would save you from TD1. Just checking...

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings XxSullyxX123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 04 2015
    AZ Member #
    318447
    My Garage
    2020 Jeep Unlimited Wrangler Rubicon Recon, 2023 Honda Pilot Elite
    Location
    Somers, NY, USA

    Quote Originally Posted by SwankP3RF3ct10n View Post
    Why did you bother using program switching to drop it to stock and take it in for service? Did you not want the techs to have some fun with Stage 2 or something... I'm asking because I'm hoping you didn't think what you did would save you from TD1. Just checking...
    I was actually wondering this as well when I read that. I am not tuned, so I am not an expert by any means, but as far as I understand through my research changing to "stock" on APR or GIAC is not the full stock ECU flash, but an APR or GIAC flash with "stock-like" performance characteristics. Need to go to a dealer for an actual stock flash right?
    2016 S4 P+ | Mythos Black | DSG | Blk Optic Pkg | Blk Nappa Leather | Tech Pkg | B&O | Carbon Inlays | Supercharged Badges ||| - SOLD
    2015 S4 P+ | Monsoon Grey | 6MT | Blk Optic Pkg | Blk Nappa Leather | Tech Pkg | Supercharged Badges | AudiGuard ||| - SOLD

  7. #7
    Veteran Member Three Rings
    Join Date
    May 10 2012
    AZ Member #
    93325
    My Garage
    2013 s4, 2008 cbr1000rr
    Location
    United States

    Quote Originally Posted by neverfastenough View Post
    If you want 4k, either learn to keep your foot off the kick down for that setting, or go and have your dealer reflash your max launch to 4k instead of 5. Easy fix there.
    I mentioned there was probably some user error involved. I got my car late in the day, so the shop wasn't able to give me the full details on how everything worked. I'll play with the foot pressure and try not to hit the kick down, thanks for the info.

  8. #8
    Veteran Member Four Rings cspcrx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04 2013
    AZ Member #
    106838
    My Garage
    2009 Tacoma, 2007 Harley Softail, 1986 Honda CRX
    Location
    Phoenix, az

    Quote Originally Posted by SwankP3RF3ct10n View Post
    Why did you bother using program switching to drop it to stock and take it in for service? Did you not want the techs to have some fun with Stage 2 or something... I'm asking because I'm hoping you didn't think what you did would save you from TD1. Just checking...
    I am long out of warrantee so not trying to get around a TD1, dealer knows it has a tune on it. I just didn't want the kid that takes it to get it washed thrashing on it. I figure the ECS intake would temp them enough, sound is inviting, so by putting it back to stock they just get what little the pulley is adding on a stock tune. Not much.
    2012 Ibis P+ / DSG / Silk Napa / B&O / Sport Diff. / ADS lite / MMI & Nav / APR Stage 2+ & TCU Tuned / Ultra Charger / 184mm KI LIL BITCH / ECS Kohlefaser Luft-Technik Intake / AMS Alpha Cooler / ECS 2-Piece Rotors / Akebono Pads / VMR 803 19x9.5 ET45 265-35-19 PSS / ECS Drivetrain Bushing Inserts / CR-15

    11.8 @ 116mph 2487DA on 93oct file Stage 2+

    THEN THEN THEN Rinse & Repeat!

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


    © 2001-2025 Audizine, Audizine.com, and Driverzines.com
    Audizine is an independently owned and operated automotive enthusiast community and news website.
    Audi and the Audi logo(s) are copyright/trademark Audi AG. Audizine is not endorsed by or affiliated with Audi AG.