Possible OEM E85 LPFP Upgrade?

[LittleDozer]

Editing with some updates...

We have a handful of members who have run this across tuners (GIAC and EPL) and have noted an ability to run a higher ethanol mix.

I am running EPL Dual Pulley with straight E85, going on 6 months with not one single P310B code (code thrown when the LPFP can't keep up). Note that I'm also running the Autotech HPFP to avoid issues on the high pressure side.

The images below are from Audi USAs parts catalogue but many have been able to purchase through vendors or dealers for $350.

Flex version for the B8.5 S4 is 8K0919051AN.

For the Q5 the flex seems to be 8R0919051E and is available through ECS.

[BlownOne]

If it's an e85 specific pump, it flows more lph. It's listed for 3.0T in the parts list? That's expensive as shit tho...

[LittleDozer]

If it's an e85 specific pump, it flows more lph. It's listed for 3.0T in the parts list? That's expensive as shit tho...

Yep listed on their site under B8.5 S4.

You'd think it would have higher flow, but I have no way to confirm except to compare to other EPL logs or ask Audi.

Also I only paid $350 thanks to my sales rep :)


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[RLB6]

I would think it had a bigger flow rate. If it does, this is a much cleaner option than what GIAC is providing.

[GRUMPY-S4]

If it's an e85 specific pump, it flows more lph. It's listed for 3.0T in the parts list? That's expensive as shit tho...

Expensive? The GIAC "walbro" is $500 lol... so how is this option expensive?


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[BlownOne]

Yep listed on their site under B8.5 S4.

You'd think it would have higher flow, but I have no way to confirm except to compare to other EPL logs or ask Audi.

Also I only paid $350 thanks to my sales rep :)


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Well that's definitely a better price! Who's the manufacture, Bosch? Should be able to find flow rates with an actual part number that's stamped on the case of the pump, but it should flow 30% more fuel volume than the standard pump to be e85 compatible.

Expensive? The GIAC "walbro" is $500 lol... so how is this option expensive?


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The giac setup isn't just the pump, it's a plug and play solution for people needing more fuel. Sure a Walboro is about $200 last time I checked, but you can't just drop one in the tank. In comparison, a little 3" hpfp piston that probably costs less than $50 to manufacture is $400, but if you need more fuel, you buy it. Gotta pay to play.

[GRUMPY-S4]

Well that's definitely a better price! Who's the manufacture, Bosch? Should be able to find flow rates with an actual part number that's stamped on the case of the pump, but it should flow 30% more fuel volume than the standard pump to be e85 compatible.


The giac setup isn't just the pump, it's a plug and play solution for people needing more fuel. Sure a Walboro is about $200 last time I checked, but you can't just drop one in the tank. In comparison, a little 3" hpfp piston that probably costs less than $50 to manufacture is $400, but if you need more fuel, you buy it. Gotta pay to play.

Well but how do we know this isnt a solution. We know for a fact its plug and play. The question is... will it deliver the extra fuel needed. My point was, how can you call that pricey and not call GIACs "solution" pricey? Which by the way... jury is still out on if its really needed or not


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[BlownOne]

The oem e85 pump could be a drop in solution for those who only need a little bit of additional fuel, but for those who need a lot of additional volume to meet the needs of an aggressive timing map and high rpm shift points, a Walboro will be needed.

[RWD2quattro]

Dang it, I just replaced my LPFP to address low pressure issues. I wish I knew this a week a go when I ordered my new pump.
Thanks for posting

[jprice]

The oem e85 pump could be a drop in solution for those who only need a little bit of additional fuel, but for those who need a lot of additional volume to meet the needs of an aggressive timing map and high rpm shift points, a Walboro will be needed.

How exactly do you know this? Have you measured the flow of the OEM e85 pump?

[Lensch09]

How exactly do you know this? Have you measured the flow of the OEM e85 pump?

It's an assumption that is very believable if Audi hardware is in step with literally everyone else in the business.

E85 pump if similar with other OEM = ~20-30% increase in delivery headspace, as well as different coatings/platings used on parts that come in contact with the fuel. Sometimes also some slightly different bushings/tolerances on parts that come into contact with the fuel as well due to the higher alcohol content fuels having less "lubricity."

I know in the diesel industry, we switched EVERYTHING over from your standard trivelant plating, to silver-nickle plating to withstand bio-diesel. Gas burners use similar processes and material changes...

-DL

[jprice]

It's an assumption that is very believable if Audi hardware is in step with literally everyone else in the business.

My question was regarding his assertion that the OEM flex fuel pump wouldn't be enough, and the walbro instead was needed for people with higher shift points. I was simply asking if he actually knew that meaning he knows what flow is required, and knows flow rates of stock, oem flex, and walbro pumps. Without that knowledge, one wouldn't be able to know that the walbro is needed over an oem flex fuel pump.

[theweebabyseamus]

The oem e85 pump could be a drop in solution for those who only need a little bit of additional fuel, but for those who need a lot of additional volume to meet the needs of an aggressive timing map and high rpm shift points, a Walboro will be needed.

A lot of assumptions are being made here. Is it only able to provide 30% more? Maybe it flows 60% higher. You can't really say it wouldn't work without the flow rates.

[LittleDozer]

A lot of assumptions are being made here. Is it only able to provide 30% more? Maybe it flows 60% higher. You can't really say it wouldn't work without the flow rates.

Exactly why I started this thread. Seeing if anyone knows of a way to contact Audi US to find out.

All I know is my car has a 57.1mm SC pulley and 189mm crank running 100% E85 with a 7200rpm shift point, and I haven't had a single fuel code or any throttle cuts.


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[GRUMPY-S4]

Exactly why I started this thread. Seeing if anyone knows of a way to contact Audi US to find out.

All I know is my car has a 57.1mm SC pulley and 189mm crank running 100% E85 with a 7200rpm shift point, and I haven't had a single fuel code or any throttle cuts.


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And you are using what LPFP?


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[whiped]

And you are using what LPFP?


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Read the first post Angel

I will try reaching out to AoA for information again. Last time they told me they had no clue other than "This one is for Flex Fuel"

[GRUMPY-S4]

Read the first post Angel

I will try reaching out to AoA for information again. Last time they told me they had no clue other than "This one is for Flex Fuel"

Dohhh!!! Damn Dozer... you gonna make me have to order this. Im growing anxious with the #E85Problems


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[whiped]

Read the first post Angel

I will try reaching out to AoA for information again. Last time they told me they had no clue other than "This one is for Flex Fuel"

No luck this time either.

Joshua O said:
The dealership should have access to the technical information, if you are not able to get anywhere with the advocate you speak to over the phone, I would suggest speaking to a service manager or the manager of the parts department.

I don't feel like calling the dealer today, I will leave that to someone else

[Lensch09]

Measuring block is 103, correct?

I may try to get out on Sunday and get a few sequential pulls to see how bad mine is falling on it's face (still on stock pump).

-DL

[LittleDozer]

Quick update. Per the thread Lensch started sounds like others are getting the pump too (Rex) but we need some more dual pulley guys with P310B to hop on!

So far I haven't had any fuel codes pop up. I have had some misfires which we think might be plugs (never triggered a fuel code), and partially might just be a tune update needed.

Basically, so far so good on fuel from what we can see.

[Q5OnTheMove]

Thanks for the update LittleDozer!

Whats the max ethanol percent you've tried running?


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[LittleDozer]

Honestly not sure, I don't have a reader. In MN all the E85 is pretty solid stuff in the summer since it's local. Pumps I fill up at have had ratings of 50-90%. I'm sure in the summer I've had some 90% tanks and now they are probably more in the 70% range with it getting cooler out. But, all speculation since I haven't measured.

[Lensch09]

New pump is in! Been HAMMERING on the car all day with zero instances of that P310B!

Either my stock pump was failing, or this thing really makes a difference!

-Dan


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[cspcrx]

Great news!

How long did the install take you? Difficulty level 1-10?

Now the million dollar questions I will the same pump work in a B8?

[whiped]

Great news!

How long did the install take you? Difficulty level 1-10?

Now the million dollar questions I will the same pump work in a B8?

Easiest way to tell will be to pull yours out and check the connectors on the top.

Not a clear indicator but if they are the same there is a decent chance it will work.

[LittleDozer]

Great news!

How long did the install take you? Difficulty level 1-10?

Now the million dollar questions I will the same pump work in a B8?

Very easy. If you can change your brakes you can do this.

The B8 doesn't incorporate the pressure valve and filter like the B8.5. Not sure how you'd be able to work around that.


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[LittleDozer]

New pump is in! Been HAMMERING on the car all day with zero instances of that P310B!

Either my stock pump was failing, or this thing really makes a difference!

-Dan


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Epiiiiic. Are you using any E85?


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[Lensch09]

Epiiiiic. Are you using any E85?


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Not yet. California, bro. All we have is the worst 91 octane fuel on earth, and race fuel....

I legit know one place in a 50 mile radius that sells corn.


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[Q5OnTheMove]

Is there anyone who has tested this OEM Flex Fuel LPFP with more then the default 10% ethanol in 91/93 octane gas? Hopefully no other fuel mods were made (HPFP, etc).
I'm trying to see how far this can be pushed from an ethanol content % above the current 20% that my non flex oem can do.

[GRUMPY-S4]

Quick update. Per the thread Lensch started sounds like others are getting the pump too (Rex) but we need some more dual pulley guys with P310B to hop on!

So far I haven't had any fuel codes pop up. I have had some misfires which we think might be plugs (never triggered a fuel code), and partially might just be a tune update needed.

Basically, so far so good on fuel from what we can see.

I wonder if this will resolve my sputter...


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[S-Fore]

I've been running 38% e85 on the Giac Stg2 100oct map for a year now, with no issues other than the lean code when I do a little too much e85. Not DP yet, hopefully in the coming weeks.

Is there anyone who has tested this OEM Flex Fuel LPFP with more then the default 10% ethanol in 91/93 octane gas? Hopefully no other fuel mods were made (HPFP, etc).
I'm trying to see how far this can be pushed from an ethanol content % above the current 20% that my non flex oem can do.

[LittleDozer]

I wonder if this will resolve my sputter...


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Considering I have a sputter, probably not


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[LittleDozer]

Putting in new spark plugs this afternoon. If it solves my sputter WOT at higher RPM I'll consider this a closed case of flex pump solving fuel constraints. If plugs don't work then I'll log AFR, requested versus actual to see if fuel is at all at play.


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[GRUMPY-S4]

Considering I have a sputter, probably not


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Arghhhh!!! Just when I was seeing light at end of tunnel. Has Tony said anything to you about possible causes?


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[LittleDozer]

Arghhhh!!! Just when I was seeing light at end of tunnel. Has Tony said anything to you about possible causes?


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Not yet, think one of the other guys was doing logs and sending to him. JPrice asked if there's any logs that we can do as well to help.

The M mode sputter at partial throttle for sure seems to just be tuning related and should be something that can be fixed.

My issue at WOT near higher RPM I have a hunch is misfire due to plugs or something.


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[Lensch09]

I was gonna swap plugs yesterday, wound up getting drunk in Berkeley instead. Whoops.

I'll slap in new plugs next week as well. Are you gonna run the "9" heat range NGKs?


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[LittleDozer]

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[GRUMPY-S4]

Not yet, think one of the other guys was doing logs and sending to him. JPrice asked if there's any logs that we can do as well to help.

The M mode sputter at partial throttle for sure seems to just be tuning related and should be something that can be fixed.

My issue at WOT near higher RPM I have a hunch is misfire due to plugs or something.


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I dont have any sputter at higher RPM. My sputter is mostly in manual mode at about 3-4K


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[LittleDozer]

I dont have any sputter at higher RPM. My sputter is mostly in manual mode at about 3-4K


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Yep, which is why I think my high rpm issue is due to plugs.


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[Loe]

Matt, I think those are one-step hotter plugs based on NGK's heat-range chart. Hopefully new plugs will resolve your high-rpm sputter.

Grumpy, do you only get while rolling into the throttle? If so, what throttle angle?