Need Advice: 6mt Transmission Potentially Failing @ 92k

[EHesh14]

delete

[o1turbo30v]

Sounds more like a shift linkage alignment issue to me, i would have Audi double check it, i remember similar problem when i installed a b&m short shifter in my B5 S4.

[jimrobbington]

Um, what's the status of your clutch? Is it original equipment? Been replaced? What brand how many miles? I'd assume the clutch to be the contributing factor before pointing fingers at synchros and the transmission.

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[SDV325]

Um, what's the status of your clutch? Is it original equipment? Been replaced? What brand how many miles? I'd assume the clutch to be the contributing factor before pointing fingers at synchros and the transmission.

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From his sig, stage 3 clutch with LW flywheel.

Initial reading was thinking clutch related not transmission related.

A good friend was having similar issues with his S2K where 3rd gear was difficult to use and 4th through 6th got worse and worse. He assumed linkage, greased the hell out of it, barely helped. Turned out to be the clutch, has a few of the same problems the OP is having. Also gears would grind in between gears changes from into 3rd through 6th.

Edit: Also forgot to mention getting the car into reverse would usually produce a horrible grinding sound

[jimrobbington]

From his sig, stage 3 clutch with LW flywheel.

Initial reading was thinking clutch related not transmission related.

A good friend was having similar issues with his S2K where 3rd gear was difficult to use and 4 through 6 got worse and worse. He assumed linkage, greased the hell out of it, barely helped. Turned out to be the clutch, has a few of the same problems the OP is having.

My bad, freaking Tapatalk.

OP, how many miles and please elaborate on clutch setup.

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[EHesh14]

My bad, freaking Tapatalk.

OP, how many miles and please elaborate on clutch setup.

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I just turned 21k the clutch. No slipping at all and it grabs very well. Made sure to properly break it in. I adjusted the linkage to every possible position and went through the gears when the car was on.

[SouthernBoy]

Most likely synchronizers are going. Are the metal particles gold colored? If so, that is material from the synchronizer(s) mating surfaces. This is perfectly normal when new but rapidly diminishes after a proper break-in. BTW, you should always double clutch your downshifts. Not only does this significantly reduced clutch wear but also greatly reduces synchronizer wear.

Check your initial engagement point of your clutch. There are several ways to do this. Raise the car up so that all four tires are clear. Then get in the car, start the engine, put the transmission in first gear, keep your clutch petal fully depressed to the floor. and have someone check to see if the wheels are turning. If they are, your have partial engagement and your initial engagement point needs to be set. There is a simpler way to check this but you have to be careful doing it. It involves allowing the dog teeth of a given gear to slightly come into contact with its respective collar. You do this through the shifter and you must be most careful when attempting it. I'll hold off describing the process unless you want to try it.

Point is, if you're having a lot of difficultly when shifting into a selected gear, particularly when stopped, if the shifter tends to "pop out" of gear on its own, if you hear any grinding noises while attempting shifts, worn synchronizers are the first suspect. Next up would be failure of the clutch assembly to fully disengage when the pedal is depressed. I can supply more info if you need it.

[fitzydude]

I think it's time for a new master and a SS clutch line while you're in there.

[Dr GP]

Most likely synchronizers are going. Are the metal particles gold colored? If so, that is material from the synchronizer(s) mating surfaces. This is perfectly normal when new but rapidly diminishes after a proper break-in. BTW, you should always double clutch your downshifts. Not only does this significantly reduced clutch wear but also greatly reduces synchronizer wear.

Check your initial engagement point of your clutch. There are several ways to do this. Raise the car up so that all four tires are clear. Then get in the car, start the engine, put the transmission in first gear, keep your clutch petal fully depressed to the floor. and have someone check to see if the wheels are turning. If they are, your have partial engagement and your initial engagement point needs to be set. There is a simpler way to check this but you have to be careful doing it. It involves allowing the dog teeth of a given gear to slightly come into contact with its respective collar. You do this through the shifter and you must be most careful when attempting it. I'll hold off describing the process unless you want to try it.

Point is, if you're having a lot of difficultly when shifting into a selected gear, particularly when stopped, if the shifter tends to "pop out" of gear on its own, if you hear any grinding noises while attempting shifts, worn synchronizers are the first suspect. Next up would be failure of the clutch assembly to fully disengage when the pedal is depressed. I can supply more info if you need it.

THIS!

[EHesh14]

I think it's time for a new master and a SS clutch line while you're in there.

I have the usp line and just had my master modified at a highly rated indie shop (exactly what JimRobbington did) and said everything looks good and no need to replace!

[jimrobbington]

I have the usp line and just had my master modified at a highly rated indie shop (exactly what JimRobbington did) and said everything looks good and no need to replace!

Nice! Glad it worked out!

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[timzcat]

I still say clutch more likely. Everyone things a clutch has to fail and slip but I've seen everything from finger failure to breakage cause the pressure plate to not release.
You therefore are driving with the clutch engaged even when you try to release it.

[dean.mohr]

I still say clutch more likely. Everyone things a clutch has to fail and slip but I've seen everything from finger failure to breakage cause the pressure plate to not release.
You therefore are driving with the clutch engaged even when you try to release it.

At about 89k on my stock clutch (with Chipwerke), it got to the point where I nearly couldn't engage 1st or reverse. I assumed it was syncros and even the dealer and local shop didn't figure it was the clutch... but lo and behold, a replacement clutch solved all my issues.

[EHesh14]

At about 89k on my stock clutch (with Chipwerke), it got to the point where I nearly couldn't engage 1st or reverse. I assumed it was syncros and even the dealer and local shop didn't figure it was the clutch... but lo and behold, a replacement clutch solved all my issues.

Yikes I only have a little over 20k miles on the jhm setup and haven't event launched the car once with it.

[jimrobbington]

Yikes I only have a little over 20k miles on the jhm setup and haven't event launched the car once with it.

Damn! Well I sorta hope it's not your clutch, even though that's probably your best hope lol. Either way, I wouldn't waste time or money at the dealer with it. Let 3z3, Berg, Bluewater, hardeys, or someone like that take a look. They have to inspect the clutch before they start taking the transmission apart anyway.

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[SDV325]

Yikes I only have a little over 20k miles on the jhm setup and haven't event launched the car once with it.

The problem with some aftermarket parts is there is no guarantee on their expected life. They are designed to operate at a much higher performance level, however this does open the door up to a shorter lifespan. Especially if the product wasn't installed a 100% perfect. Just because the OEM clutch should see 90K miles to ??, doesn't mean the same aftermarket part has been designed to see similar life. I have rarely seen anyone with heavily upgraded clutches let alone a stage III for this car. Hard to say what the failure point could be.

I know its painful and a pain in the ass to do, however it definitely would be the cheapest option.

[jimrobbington]

You said new slave, but did you have to push hard to start after it was installed? Or did you get that issue fixed before the new slave was installed?

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[EHesh14]

You said new slave, but did you have to push hard to start after it was installed? Or did you get that issue fixed before the new slave was installed?

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I had the master modification done before I put the new slave in.

[SouthernBoy]

I appreciate the feedback! What do you mean by "setting the initial engagement point"?

The initial engagement point is the point at which contact first occurs between the clutch friction disk and the pressure plate/flywheel assembly. Generally this occurs when the pedal is between 1.5 and 3 inches from its stop pad on the floor wall of your footwell (I have no idea what the Audi specs are for this).

I jacked the car up and there was no wheel movement when the clutch was engaged. When I cleaned the magnetic plug I found only the grey/silver metal particles, no copper that I remember...

You need to check this when the clutch is disengaged, not engaged. And if there is no wheel movement when the clutch is engaged, and the transmission is in a driving gear, you would have real problems.

The grey/silver metal flakes are normal, though you only want to see a very small amount of those.

The master cylinder or slave cylinder could also be suspect as well as the pressure plate. But simply put, when it is difficult to engage a gear, the problem almost always falls into two causes. Worn synchronizers which cannot properly match shaft speeds within the transmission or a failure of the clutching system to fully disengage. There are a few other factors which could be suspect. Worn or broken sleeves, failing shifting forks, misaligned linkage come to mind.

[S4_V6T]

A little update....

2 Days ago I bled my slave once more before finally taking it in to 3zero3 Motorsports....Slaved popped with barely any pressure put on the clutch pedal. (4th or 5th slave)

The shop calls me today saying that they replaced the slave & it popped again after test drive. They are thinking its the SAC so they will be dropping the tranny to inspect the clutch prior to inspecting the transmission.

If I need a new clutch, should I get the same JHM stage 3 (if failed, lasted 22k miles with 2 launches) or should I go with a South Bend DXD stage 2 Endurance? SB is rated at 430 lbs torque, but I don't know what the JHM is rated at.

If the tranny is the culprit, I told them about a new OEM one off Audi Online Parts being $3800 shipped and said that the "cheap" price threw up a red flag.

Was in the same position not that long ago regarding having to replace my stage 3 clutch and LWFW. I got 10000 miles out of the clutch before it was toast. I ended up putting an OEM setup back on and it has been spot on for the last 5000 miles. Sachs do make an uprated clutch as well but not sure if there are many who have gone down that route (there was a thread not that long ago regarding the sachs clutch).
I was hoping to get the JHM R series clutch in the next few months and use the LWFW but think I'll leave the OEM in for now and put the money that would have been spent towards savings for an S8. It is a shame as I have an almost new LWFW sitting around in my garage picking up dust!

[dean.mohr]

I still say clutch more likely. Everyone things a clutch has to fail and slip but I've seen everything from finger failure to breakage cause the pressure plate to not release.
You therefore are driving with the clutch engaged even when you try to release it.

A little update....

2 Days ago I bled my slave once more before finally taking it in to 3zero3 Motorsports....Slaved popped with barely any pressure put on the clutch pedal. (4th or 5th slave)

The shop calls me today saying that they replaced the slave & it popped again after test drive. They are thinking its the SAC so they will be dropping the tranny to inspect the clutch prior to inspecting the transmission.

If I need a new clutch, should I get the same JHM stage 3 (if failed, lasted 22k miles with 2 launches) or should I go with a South Bend DXD stage 2 Endurance? SB is rated at 430 lbs torque, but I don't know what the JHM is rated at.

If the tranny is the culprit, I told them about a new OEM one off Audi Online Parts being $3800 shipped and said that the "cheap" price threw up a red flag.

Shoot, if it does turn out to be the clutch, the only way I would even REMOTELY consider replacing it in-kind would be if the manufacturer paid for it. 22k miles and 2 launches? You might as well go with a stock clutch if you're never going to abuse it.

[EHesh14]

My shop has installed an R series JHM clutch on a customers b7 rs4 and said it's weird. Even the customer wasn't very happy with it and said it was "ok" after more than a few thousand miles tracking/using it as a daily. I am reluctant to go back to a JHM clutch after this issue, but will be sticking with their lwfw. Even thought the OEM clutch was reliable for 80k miles, and being stage 2, I would rather not have it start slipping.

I'm leaning toward the South Bend stage 2 endurance since the torque rating is in my range. Before I started having all of these issues I was planning on going dual pulley, but I think I'm gonna get the lightweight jhm crank pulley and settle for a more reliable stage 2 daily.

I'll update you guys on how things pan out, but looking at a $4k repair just with the clutch replacement & new slave.

[XxSullyxX123]

Wow. If this is true, just wow. JHM needs to read this, re-read the JHM HFC thread, and then finish up by reading the thread about dealing ECS from this week. Anyone who's an avid reader on this forum will know what I'm referring to.