Help with starter replacement

[chucklando]

Does anyone have any experience with changing the starter on their RS4? I'm pretty sure mine is dead. The reason I ask is I'm debating whether to change it myself or have the car towed to a shop. I rather do it myself to save the labor cost and I really hate seeing my car loaded onto a flatbed. It's so low its impossible not to cringe while they load it. The car is in the garage so it's already in an ideal spot to work on it. So for anyone who can help, my questions are

1) what is the estimated labor time?
2) is it worth the hassle to do it yourself?
3) any tips or issues you've ran into (interference removal, ability to reach mounting bolts, etc)?

The reason I think the starter is dead is my car wouldn't start a few days ago in the morning. It wasn't abnormally cold outside and the car had only sat over the weekend. Taking the key to start there was no attempt of the starter to turn the engine. I've tried several more times since then. I checked battery voltage and its a solid 12Vdc. All other electrical loads are unaffected. If I take the key to run without going to start, wait a moment, then take the key to start, I hear a light hum under the car that sounds a lot like a coil energizing. So it sounds like the start is getting power but isn't spinning. I haven't had a chance to check any codes with VCDS yet.

Prior to this I thought the starter sounded like it had to crank a second or two too long to get the engine to turn over, so it's possible it was on its way out. A new one from JHM is about $200.

Thanks for any help.

reference threads: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hlight=starter

[TypeRx]

You should consider a little more testing on the battery as well as a VCDS scan before replacing the starter. 12.0v at the battery actually isn't good - you want 12.3-12.6. Also, under load your battery may not have enough juice to fire the starter. How do your headlights look?

Here is a starter DIY, which should be very similar for the RS4. It looks very doable and about a 2-4 hour job, depending on your level of skill.

http://sandbox.enjoybeing.net/diy/S4/starter/


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[d2a4]

It was the first thing I did when I got the RS earlier this year, put key in crank, no start, wait a few minutes start right up, getting worst over time, only when colder morning, warm afternoon is fine.
It is not a hard job, getting it out is tough, prepare a long allen set (don't remember the size) to loosen the engine support IIRC
I think I saw one for sale new $100 in classified (got mine from JHM $200)

[chucklando]

I have a Schumacher battery charger that has a crank function. With that connected the starter still didn't attempt to crank at all, that's why I don't think its an issue with voltage/current.

[Naff]

Are you measuring the voltage at the battery or at the front? And are you measuring the voltage whilst it is attempting to start?

[Avussilver07]

Funny mine has started doing that lately on cold mornings. The hum you hear is the fuel pump and I don't think it is a starter issue with these cars, though I don't know their systems that well. I find it funny it doesn't do anything when the key is turned to the start position and when you let it back into run after a few seconds boom the starter turns over. That's if it decides to turn over. The starter itself seems total strong. It is like their is another issue, contact in the ignition switch or some other component. Please give an update to what you find. Thanks!

[Peter1.8t]

Funny mine has started doing that lately on cold mornings. The hum you hear is the fuel pump and I don't think it is a starter issue with these cars, though I don't know their systems that well. I find it funny it doesn't do anything when the key is turned to the start position and when you let it back into run after a few seconds boom the starter turns over. That's if it decides to turn over. The starter itself seems total strong. It is like their is another issue, contact in the ignition switch or some other component. Please give an update to what you find. Thanks!

Off topic, but were you in the Bothell/Woodinville era yesterday? There was another Avus silver RS4 parked a couple streets over from me. Spotted it around 5pm yesterday on my way home.

[d2a4]

Funny mine has started doing that lately on cold mornings. The hum you hear is the fuel pump and I don't think it is a starter issue with these cars, though I don't know their systems that well. I find it funny it doesn't do anything when the key is turned to the start position and when you let it back into run after a few seconds boom the starter turns over. That's if it decides to turn over. The starter itself seems total strong. It is like their is another issue, contact in the ignition switch or some other component. Please give an update to what you find. Thanks!

Based on my research, that is the starter failing. I replaced mine and have not got the issue again, start up every times..

[chucklando]

I ran a scan with vagcom and the first thing found was in the engine address: P3088 fault on the Starter Relay. That was enough for me to order a new starter from JHM. It should be here next weekend.

Battery voltage was 12.6 when I checked it last.

I ordered some RaceRamps from discount ramps. Once those get here I'm just going to have the car towed to a local import shop that does really good work and have them do the job. I just don't have the time to get it done and have other priorities around the house/with the family.

After looking at that DIY I figured the shop is going to be taking our the front sway bar and passenger side motor mount. So I added to the JHM order some 034 front sway bar links and 034 motorsport line engine mounts. I figured with it being associate with the job might as well upgrade them now. I haven't done the torque mount yet but from what I've read the bumper needs to be off so I'll be waiting to do that one. The car already has KW V3s and hotchkins rear sway bar, so I'm interested to see how this will change the ride. When I do the clutch next year I'll do the trans mount. And at some point I'll do the ECS rear diff mount, 034 rear diff carrier inserts, and 034 rear sway links all together.

[Est1976]

Does anyone have any experience with changing the starter on their RS4? I'm pretty sure mine is dead. The reason I ask is I'm debating whether to change it myself or have the car towed to a shop. I rather do it myself to save the labor cost and I really hate seeing my car loaded onto a flatbed. It's so low its impossible not to cringe while they load it. The car is in the garage so it's already in an ideal spot to work on it. So for anyone who can help, my questions are

1) what is the estimated labor time?
2) is it worth the hassle to do it yourself?
3) any tips or issues you've ran into (interference removal, ability to reach mounting bolts, etc)?

The reason I think the starter is dead is my car wouldn't start a few days ago in the morning. It wasn't abnormally cold outside and the car had only sat over the weekend. Taking the key to start there was no attempt of the starter to turn the engine. I've tried several more times since then. I checked battery voltage and its a solid 12Vdc. All other electrical loads are unaffected. If I take the key to run without going to start, wait a moment, then take the key to start, I hear a light hum under the car that sounds a lot like a coil energizing. So it sounds like the start is getting power but isn't spinning. I haven't had a chance to check any codes with VCDS yet.

Prior to this I thought the starter sounded like it had to crank a second or two too long to get the engine to turn over, so it's possible it was on its way out. A new one from JHM is about $200.

Thanks for any help.

reference threads: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...hlight=starter

does this help?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...FIxejFVZUNvbjg

[chucklando]

Yes, that's incredibly helpful, thank you. I might just try to knock it out myself one night now that I have that.

Is there a library of those floating around anywhere?

[Est1976]

I hunted and hunted and found a torrent for it. Took a good while to figure out how to get it all working though.

[chucklando]

I finally got around to trying to replace the starter last night. I got to the point of removing the passenger side engine mount. Initially, looking at the mount from under the car, the three bolts for the bracket on the engine block looked incredibly difficult to get to. I removed the engine mount lower bracket (that connects to the car's frame), and the accessibility was still terrible. There's three bolts, one low on the block and two up high under the exhaust manifold. Of the two upper ones I could get a hex head into the bolt, but the second you can't even see. I figured if I tried long enough I could remove that upper bracket but the process of getting it back in there is what I was scared of. So I didn't fuck with it and put it all back together. I'll have a shop with proficient mechanics get it done in a few hours instead of me struggling for days.

So, to summarize, not an easy job to get the engine mount out. And that has to come out to get the starter out.

[Est1976]

I finally got around to trying to replace the starter last night. I got to the point of removing the passenger side engine mount. Initially, looking at the mount from under the car, the three bolts for the bracket on the engine block looked incredibly difficult to get to. I removed the engine mount lower bracket (that connects to the car's frame), and the accessibility was still terrible. There's three bolts, one low on the block and two up high under the exhaust manifold. Of the two upper ones I could get a hex head into the bolt, but the second you can't even see. I figured if I tried long enough I could remove that upper bracket but the process of getting it back in there is what I was scared of. So I didn't fuck with it and put it all back together. I'll have a shop with proficient mechanics get it done in a few hours instead of me struggling for days.

So, to summarize, not an easy job to get the engine mount out. And that has to come out to get the starter out.

I have just finished replacing both engine mounts in my RS and you are correct, not easy at all. Though the trick is to use a stubby or a self ratcheting stubby (13mm) to remove the engine mount. I removed the drivers side engine mount bracket and almost couldn't get it back in.
Anyway, if you can remove that top engine mount nut and can get the mount out, I think it's doable. I learned not to remove the bracket like you opted for essentially due to the fact you can't see the 3rd hex bolt at all.

[65vetteC6]

Try using a long ball end hex, that should be able to reach it and address that tightness of the area.

[chucklando]

I had the car towed to a European car shop last weekend with a request to replace the starter, motor mounts, and sway bar end links.

I bought a set of RaceRamps tow ramps which we needed when we unloaded the car at the shop to prevent the bumper from scraping. The ramps were about $350, and since they can be used even for driving the car up on to get under it, I think that's well worth it. Wood boards sometimes don't cut it. They're made specifically for getting onto flat bed trailers but really can be used to extend any trailer ramp.

The car was dropped off with all the parts in a box in the trunk (all ordered from JHM). After it was at the shop for two days they called me and said the starter had been replaced and there was still no start. Then they asked for permission to troubleshoot, thinking it might be the ignition switch, so i told them go ahead because I definitely don't have time to figure it out. The next day they called and said the found a broken grounding strap. I never got any more detail than that but I'm assuming it was one in the circuit to the starter. Definitely a bummer to replace the starter when that wasn't the issue. The starter cost about $230 and the labor was $410 with the troubleshooting. I'm not sure what it would have cost if I took it to them from the start without trying to diagnose it myself.

They said they did see the same fault code that I originally saw so they did think it was the starter to begin with. And for comparison's sake, when I earlier said I thought the starter was going because it took what I thought was a second or two too long to turn the engine over, the new starter is exactly the same.

The new engine mounts definitely make a difference driving. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do this because the stock ones felt really good and I'm using this car mostly for daily driving in the nicer months. I'm sure these will grow on me. Cost for the install was $367. Wish I'd had time to do it myself but winter is coming on too fast and there's other priorities.

And as another data point, JHM didn't include the resistor for no codes with the engine mounts, even though I ordered them. I need to call them tomorrow to resolve, I don't think it'll be an issue.

[Seattle squash]

I had the car towed to a European car shop last weekend with a request to replace the starter, motor mounts, and sway bar end links.

I bought a set of RaceRamps tow ramps which we needed when we unloaded the car at the shop to prevent the bumper from scraping. The ramps were about $350, and since they can be used even for driving the car up on to get under it, I think that's well worth it. Wood boards sometimes don't cut it. They're made specifically for getting onto flat bed trailers but really can be used to extend any trailer ramp.

The car was dropped off with all the parts in a box in the trunk (all ordered from JHM). After it was at the shop for two days they called me and said the starter had been replaced and there was still no start. Then they asked for permission to troubleshoot, thinking it might be the ignition switch, so i told them go ahead because I definitely don't have time to figure it out. The next day they called and said the found a broken grounding strap. I never got any more detail than that but I'm assuming it was one in the circuit to the starter. Definitely a bummer to replace the starter when that wasn't the issue. The starter cost about $230 and the labor was $410 with the troubleshooting. I'm not sure what it would have cost if I took it to them from the start without trying to diagnose it myself.

They said they did see the same fault code that I originally saw so they did think it was the starter to begin with. And for comparison's sake, when I earlier said I thought the starter was going because it took what I thought was a second or two too long to turn the engine over, the new starter is exactly the same.

The new engine mounts definitely make a difference driving. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do this because the stock ones felt really good and I'm using this car mostly for daily driving in the nicer months. I'm sure these will grow on me. Cost for the install was $367. Wish I'd had time to do it myself but winter is coming on too fast and there's other priorities.

And as another data point, JHM didn't include the resistor for no codes with the engine mounts, even though I ordered them. I need to call them tomorrow to resolve, I don't think it'll be an issue.

Yeah, not a super quick job but good excuse to upgrade E mounts, I did the Ecs ones with resistors - like them a lot so far 3k later.

[nr103]

Does anyone have to part numbers for the front sway bar end link bolts and bracket bolts that need replacing?

I believe N10702501 is the end end link bolt and N90183802 are the nuts for the bracket, but can't find if bracket bolts need replacing per the DIY referenced in this thread.

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