034 Motorsport - Review and PSA

[james 408]

Background:
The car was brought in to diagnose an overboosting issue. Customer states it may be 27psi, but 25 was the number he was seeing when tested in 3rd gear on the way over. There was no check engine lights occurring.*

The customer states there is a pinhole leak in one of the wastegate lines, and 034 insists in must see the car to opine on that being the issue. The turbos have approximately 20,000 miles on them since new.* The car is dropped off for service. 034 states that they had pulled apart the turbo inlet pipes, replaced the wastegate lines, and that upon first test drive at 034, the turbos failed.

Issues:
034 claims a bracket to the motor mount is broken (was recently serviced at a trusted shop, no issues were present at the time).* 034 is unable to provide evidence of the broken mount.

Turbos blown up in the shop after they work on the intake tract to the turbos.

034 denies responsibility, denies having worked on the intake tract on that side despite specifically saying they pulled apart the turbo inlet pipe to replace the seals on both sides before the turbos blew.* Customer receives advice from experts that the nature of the turbo failure is indicative of foreign debris causing the turbo to stop spinning (the nut came off and did significant damage to the impeller).

034 agrees to fix it at cost

The oil cooler mounting was described by 034 as unsafe (it was zip tied on).* 034 punctures the oil cooler shoves some cheap plastic tabs through it, and it hangs down too low.. As a result of the service, the power steering cooler lines are now hanging down below the bumper directly in front of the driver's side tire. This is a serious safety concern (fluid leaking onto the front tire if any debris is clipped as this is now the lowest point on the vehicle!), and was discussed with the service manager at the time of delivery.

034 states the overboosting is a result of the tune, requiring a full fueling kit.* Customer strongly objects, but 034 insists this is the issue, and is the only way to resolve it.
Headlight mounting tabs were sold on the premise that you could install them -- upon delivery, I am told that 034 could not install the tabs, yet the parts were included in the invoice.

Additionally, services were added to the bill that should not have been billed (e.g. diagnosing what happened to the turbos under 034s care -- this is part of your due diligence in resolving the responsibility for a failure directly in the area you were working, and not separately billable to the customer.* Even though this was explicitly mentioned before the service, the amount was on the initial invoice.

034 calls the customer states the water lines need to be replaced.* Customer agrees that if they are faulty, replace them.* The lines were not faulty, but merely aged.* Customer was not informed as to their proper condition.

034 claims the motor mounts are broken.* Customer denies this.* 034 insists that they must be changed and attempts to sell the customer on their motor mounts.* Customer refuses to pay for their motor mounts as he has had them fail on him in the past.* Original motor mounts were eventually reinstalled, and were in perfect condition.

034 didn't even custom tune or dyno the car

034 charges several hundred dollars in incidental gaskets and misc parts outside of the normal incidentals to a motor pull -- many of which were not approved by the customer despite the invoice stating they were!

034 charges 75-85 dollars an hour, claiming this is their cost.* They refuse to provide support for this figure.
they charge the customer approximately $6,000.

Service manager drives the car with the customer in the passenger seat, the boost hose pops off on the very first corner -- a clamp was left loose.
Customer receives car some 3 months after dropping the car off, the car throws check engine lights, the headlight is unplugged and parts must be removed to fish out the wire, the oil level is below the minimum fill marker, a brake caliper bolt snaps puncturing the wheel, and the car overboost the same as when he dropped it off.* Customer is unable to drive the car without issues, and 034 is unresponsive to the customer.* After a year, the customer floods the company with emails and phonecalls until he receives a response.

After implicitly calling the customer a liar and spending dozens of hours proving things to 034, they agree to repair the car and work on some of the routine maintenance items to offset the gauging identified above.

2nd service interval:
The misfiring is claimed to be a cam position adjuster and spark plugs.* They try to charge the customer approximately $1k more than competitor shops.* After providing them with a quote, they agree to match the price of the other shop, plus the cost for me to tow it.* They dyno tune the vehicle.* After another dozen or so hours of bickering with them they agree to not charge me anything extra if I'll sign an agreement that waives them of liability on their first service (customer objects to anything without seeing the vehicle first, but due to the extreme amount of time and stress already lost, he agrees because they were otherwise going to hold his car hostage for the repair bill).* Car is returned to the customer, the power steering lines are still hanging down in front of the tire.

034 refuses to work on the routine maintenance items because of the extreme wear to the rotors being indicative of racing, and refuses to work on suspension or brake items.

034 Did pay for return shipping on the vehicle to return it to the customer.

Conclusion:
I bring in a car to diagnose overboosting, I get the car back with the original issue unresolved, and additional issues that resulted as a direct result of the service, and am charged a ridiculous sum of money in the process. Then it takes over a year to get any response, despite several dozen phone calls, and several emails from me throughout this timeframe. Most of these issues were brought up repeatedly, including at the time the car was delivered. The company denies the claims, calls me a liar, and refuses to rectify the issues until threats of lawsuits and public shaming are made.* Another month goes by during the 2nd service, and comes back with the power steering lines still hanging down below the front bumper and in front of the tire.* 034 refuses to pay for another shop to fix the issue.

The amount of time, money, and stress invoked on the customer was beyond anything I've ever experienced.* The resolution was incredibly inadequate, and the amount of bickering and time involved to get them to do anything was unimaginable.* I recommend you avoid this shop at all costs.* I personally will never do business with them again; nor will my friends and driving buddies.

Historically, I have had issues with several of their parts within 5,000 miles of install, and 034 has failed to warranty any of them.* So this is not an isolated incident, at all.* The owner claimed he always warranties his work, but when I told him that I had multiple experiences, he backpedaled and said 'well some customers fell through the cracks'.

Search the forums, there are complaints going back from many forum members going way back.* Please, protect yourself from the pain that may result from doing business with these people.

I made some mistakes during this, obviously. But those lie primarily in not yanking the car out of there immediately and going to court. I tried to work with them to resolve the issues, and I deeply regret it. I wish I had audio recordings.

Final response from 034
034 responded with an overall disagreement, but didn't provide me any specifics on what they disagreed with (at least none based on reality or fact). I made this as factual as possible, to avoid misrepresenting anything. They say that if I agree to ship the car to them, again, they will inspect the car and consider doing additional work; well this just isn't going to happen, I know better now. If they respond with misleading statements as was discussed on the phone with them (and included in the email pasted below), I will happily respond and attempt to keep my part as unbiased as possible despite my outrage. Basically they threatened to slander me and paint me as a liar on the phone rather than trying to make amends (almost comedically they accuse me of going back on agreements (when the opposite is true), and argue the agreement I fought not to sign was exactly what I wanted -- I'll happily post email proof on just how dishonest their perspective is, but this is long enough as is). Here is their written response, uneditted:

It is disappointing that this is how you interpreted the service you received here at 034Motorsport.* I feel that we have made every effort to reconcile any issues that you brought to our attention, despite the amount of time that transpired from the original transaction.* We agreed to address issues within a defined scope which you later reneged.* We were willing to work with you and adjusted the scope and agreement, you authored the agreement and I listed both the items that we addressed and credits to be applied to your account as a part of said agreement; we even shipped the vehicle out to you free of charge.* I urged you to inspect the vehicle in person prior to shipment to verify all repairs were to your satisfaction and you declined.* We are happy to inspect and address issues*(if warranted)*that are in-line with the scope of the agreement if you are able to bring your vehicle to our premises, but cannot reimburse you any repair performed at other facilities and/or transportation and associated costs.

[james 408]

I really did try to work with them and avoid tarnishing their brand because of mistakes; but I felt a moral obligation to warn people about my experiences with this company. It is so unfortunate it has come to this; I truly regret harming a business, but feel that the damage caused to the s4 community outweighs the damage to the business.

here's the heading on the email:
Let me know if you'd like me to change anything or feel anything is unfair about this review.* I'll give you 24 hours to respond, and will consider any input you have.* I have no desire to be unfair or misleading in any way.

Sonu and Javad:
This is the writup I plan on posting to the internet.* Due to the stress, loss of use of vehicle, and financial damages I suffered as a result of your business, I feel obligated to warn others about your operations.

[rguil]

Rather interesting to see a broken motor mount bracket. Them shits are super thick
Just work on your own car, avoid all the bullshit described above.

[james 408]

I just called them for advise on the overboosting; then... this happened. I thought I was looking at 30 minutes of vehicle inspection fees, not $6k and extreme pain. Hindsight is 20/20 and this will never happen again; hoping i can prevent it from happening to others.

[rguil]

So wait, you just wanted advice and a quick diagnosis to fix the overboost issue, but they replaced the waistgate lines without your permission?
and what are "the seals on both sides" of the turbos?

[james 408]

Definately possible, that's what the problem was the first time, and afterwards the 2nd time, I think. Either way they still vehemently deny fault and were willing to go to great lengths and expenditure to avoid paying rather than helping me out. Just so unfortunate.

No, they already had it all pulled apart from the inspection. I knew the wastegate line had a pinhole leak before i even called them, was just so minor i wanted a second opinion. Then they noticed i was missing an o-ring on the turbo inlet pipe on that side, so they said they'd pull apart the other side. Next thing I know i'm getting a call that the turbos blew. Then I started getting calls about all sorts of stuff that was 'broken' and it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th one that i started going: wtf, i just looked at this stuff and none of it was broken. So I stopped authorizing any work, and when i showed up to pick the car up, they tried to charge me thousands more than I was expecting.

If I hadn't been working 80-100+ hour weeks I could have caught on to the debauchery much sooner. I'm a cpa so tight deadlines and huge dollar corps/individuals take over my life for large stretches of time. Luckily i had a second vehicle I could use for stress relief over the last year and a half the vehicle has been missing/disfunctional. But I was getting stressed about it and having to take calls at work to deal with their crap. Literally between multi-million dollar meetings i'm dealing with these... well I'll avoid calling names.

[rguil]

Definately possible, that's what the problem was the first time, and afterwards the 2nd time, I think. Either way they still vehemently deny fault and were willing to go to great lengths and expenditure to avoid paying rather than helping me out. Just so unfortunate.

No, they already had it all pulled apart from the inspection. I knew the wastegate line had a pinhole leak before i even called them, was just so minor i wanted a second opinion. Then they noticed i was missing an o-ring on the turbo inlet pipe on that side, so they said they'd pull apart the other side. Next thing I know i'm getting a call that the turbos blew.

Interesting. I dont know how a turbo could blow from replacing those o rings unless they are blind and did something really really weird. It sounds like they overspun them so severely the turbos blew, it is possible. Perhaps you should scan and post the service logs that 034 provides to you (or should) at delivery in chronological order, with your personal information blacked out of course. If you are confortable with that ofc, i would like to see them.

I have had to deal with fishy stuff from even audi dealerships regarding my little green italian car ;) under a parts warranty , so i always request a service log and check part numbers (they hate people like me). If the company is any good at all they should give you an extremely detailed list of parts down to the freaking o ring that they use on a dipstick and a thorough diagnosis explaination. For such a large bill it should be a page or two long if not more

[james 408]

I'll send you the documents in a PM. They argued that at 20k the k04s just went out on them due to the overboosting, and that they weren't at fault whatsoever, but agreed to do it at cost. They also changed the initial invoice to state they didn't work on that side (service manager told me as much in person), backdated the investigation charges on it, and wrote a document supporting their conclusions.

Either way doing it at cost was close enough to fair for me, so I agreed since I didn't have the time to argue, litigate, or do it myself at that time. I've done the books for several of these shops as sidejobs, and just couldn't believe that after-the-fact they tried to charge between 75-85 an hour for it as cost basis. I mean i guess it's possible, but they should have told me that; then the fact they were unwilling to show me any evidence to support it just serves to confirm my suspiscions. I've got a dozen shops whose billing rate is that high, the cost basis is nowhere near that. Then you pile on the other facts and you get a very livid customer.

honestly I have shops that I send em too when it's too much for me to handle in an apartment carport (get in trouble for it all the time), I'm too busy at work, or beyond my comfort/toolset. I've never had any issues at all (post resolution), nothing but good things to say about them. That's why I was so blown away by their conduct and caught off-guard. Just shameful; I'm embarassed I let it happen.

[james 408]

Omitted link to docs for now, gonna edit them first.

[rguil]

Interesting, after looking at the docs, i sometimes believe the b5 is cursed (at least mine is). My only speculation towards the turbo nut falling off and going to town on your compressor could be that the leak from the n75 to the waistgate actuator caused that turbo to overspin severely, even a pinhole leak can cause a waistgate actuator to not function properly, or at all. The docs were stating you were seeing 30psi with leaky lines, i bet the n75 was at 100% duty cycle desprerately trying to bring that down to a number that your tune requested (26psi?). I bet with that leaky line, that turbo was spinning at insane speeds and another heat cycle caused the nut to fall off.
Crazy shit happens with this platform, i drove 300 yards down the street to diagnose a misfire issue and my ecu fried. Another time i drove 500 yards away from my house after a fresh timing belt job and my throw out bearing had intercourse with my bell housing.
Shit happens, a lot for some reason on this platform. So in my opinion and after looking at the docs and considering your side as well, i dont think it is 034s fault for the turbo failure. its just some b5s4 bullshit.

The same thing happened with me on a overboost issue, my line was severed however. i was able to fix it when i overboosted only once.

The motor mount bracket issue is interesting however, if i were you i would of asked for the old one back to look at it.
I dont like how they sold you new k04s in a pair. I know thats "spec" but i bet you that other k04 is on some other dudes car.
I dont like how they sold you a tune and additonal fueling when i dont think that was the problem.
A year and half to deal with all of this is rather wack.
You should of recorded the phone calls, might have been interesting.
I didnt see anything about the power steering issue you mentioned in the logs, you got pics?

I feel that every company in America and the world is out to make a buck and 034 is no different. Every company is going to upsell you and pad their hours.... Thats why i work on my own car. Do it right the first time (or maybe the third or fourth time in my case )

[james 408]

yeah i'm with you on the turbo blowing, it's possible they weren't at fault. I took that perspective initially, but then they started behaving super-shady. Plus, they said they literally made it 5 feet and the turbo 'never made any boost'. They even tried to say I brought them a car with the turbos blown up before it even got there. I mean if you pull apart the inlet piping, you'd think they might have noticed severe impeller damage and a missing nut? So this wasn't like it just blew up WOT, they said they were just pulling it out of the driveway -- leads me to believe they dropped something in there. That's what really makes it funny. Then they changed their story about touching that side, which is pretty unbelievable.

All that aside, if they'd just charged me for it at cost, I'd have gone away. But the shadiness continued to pile up, and their responses to the problems experienced after I got the car back with issues really caused a lot of trouble for me -- i was literally writing dozens of emails and spending dozens of hours on the phone with them. I mean they called me a liar on the billing issue in the very first phone call with the owner (he even said "we never had a contract" as he said verbal contracts aren't binding -- not only is this factually wrong if you can prove the conversation happened, but it's morally corrupt), so I sent them the email from right when i received the car and proved it. Then had to send pictures and all sorts of stuff to prove to them the issues. It was just a circus.

The fact of the matter is the car still has issues directly resulting from their service. Just sucks. And if you see the detail i added in from the paragraphs above, I've only tried to present this stuff in a factual way, the incidental and circumstantial evidence and mistreatment goes much deeper.

Like i said, never had any problems with competitors, even when they made a mistake they took ownership and just took the loss, based on a 15 minute phone call and that's the only thing I had to do. This was quite a different experience.

edit: oh yeah about the 30psi number, that's due to the load increase in 5th and 6th gear. 3rd and 4th gear showed lower numbers, i believe 25 and 27 were the numbers respectively, but honestly it's been about a year and a half since I first had issues, so if i'm slightly off, forgive me. regardless the tune was an ASP tune and was supposed to be 23 spike but 21psi, more ore less.

[rguil]

yeah i'm with you on the turbo blowing, it's possible they weren't at fault. I took that perspective initially, but then they started behaving super-shady. Plus, they said they literally made it 5 feet and the turbo 'never made any boost'. They even tried to say I brought them a car with the turbos blown up before it even got there. I mean if you pull apart the inlet piping, you'd think they might have noticed severe impeller damage and a missing nut? So this wasn't like it just blew up WOT, they said they were just pulling it out of the driveway -- leads me to believe they dropped something in there. That's what really makes it funny. Then they changed their story about touching that side, which is pretty unbelievable.

All that aside, if they'd just charged me for it at cost, I'd have gone away. But the shadiness continued to pile up, and their responses to the problems experienced after I got the car back with issues really caused a lot of trouble for me -- i was literally writing dozens of emails and spending dozens of hours on the phone with them. I mean they called me a liar on the billing issue in the very first phone call with the owner (he even said "we never had a contract" as he said verbal contracts aren't binding), so I sent them the email from right when i received the car and proved it. Then had to send pictures and all sorts of stuff to prove to them the issues. It was just a circus.

The fact of the matter is the car still has issues directly resulting from their service. Just sucks. And if you see the detail i added in from the paragraphs above, I've only tried to present this stuff in a factual way, the incidental and circumstantial evidence and mistreatment goes much deeper.

Like i said, never had any problems with competitors, even when they made a mistake they took ownership and just took the loss, based on a 15 minute phone call and that's the only thing I had to do. This was quite a different experience.

edit: oh yeah about the 30psi number, that's due to the load increase in 5th and 6th gear. 3rd and 4th gear showed lower numbers, i believe 25 and 27 were the numbers respectively, but honestly it's been almost 2 years so if i'm slightly off, forgive me.

They could of accidentally droped a bolt in there, you will never know the true story.

[james 408]

Yep, sucks.

Here's a couple pics I had to take to rebuke their accusations i was lying (sorry for bad angle and I believe that's 4th gear from after they 'fixed' it the first time, respectively):



I mean if the turbos blew up due to overboosting, then you return the car to the customer with overboosting issues still present, and then take the position that there's zero damage to the turbos as a result? Literally comedy. Had to go overboost it AGAIN just to snap the photo for them because 'there's no way your car is overboosting, i drove it myself'.

edit: removed, getting away from the raw facts too much, don't want to distract from the meat of the problem

[erykv1]

Man, sucks to hear regardless the circumstances and its unfortunate you had to go through all this... but there are usually two sides to every story.

Not here to play devils advocate, but if you wanted to confirm a wastegate line leak a $40 dollar mityvac and 15 minutes of your time would have prevented all of this.

[christianb5s4]

Unfortunately, nearly every shop will inevitably have situations like this happen at some point. It's hard to comprehend how much stress and hardship that process must have been, hopefully it doesn't happen again.

[jballou]

As the B5's get older, unfortunately as the car gets worked on, things break and can snowball out of control. I always tell my clients that there may be some unforeseen things that turn up and I try to be as open about it as I can. When I tear into something and I find something amiss, I try to let my client know ASAP and give them a few different routes that they can take. There are lazy mechanics out there. I also believe there are cursed cars out there that no matter what you fix or do, it will cause another issue or part to fail. Having a mechanic or service advisor that can be open and explain findings and issues plus have different solutions is key. Even if the client is not very knowledgeable about their car, with a B5 S4 and with its age getting older and older, the client needs to understand the car is not a Honda. Once they understand that, the better off and happier they will be. I am sorry that you had to go through all of this, without a specific plan to fix your car, and after the car being at the shop for a month, I would have towed the car out of there, cut your losses, and found someone else.

Not knowing the other side of the story, it makes it difficult to lean one way or the other. But I do hate seeing people spend a lot of their hard earned money and not being happy with the out come. I think that always bothers me the most with a lot of these shops.

[james 408]

like i said, i knew the leak was there before i took it to them, just wanted a second opinion, shouldn't have dropped it off.

Yeah, I understand stuff happens, it's the dishonesty and manner in which they handled it that caused the hardship. owned the car for 13 years, i know stuff goes bad. Been there many times -- never been a problem. It's the dishonesty that really bugs me, not the money. Then the accusations to my character on top of it... the denial of responsibility on stuff that they directly caused the problems on... that's the stuff that really gets me. just wholly unnecessary, I can't even comprehend why somebody would do that unless... I mean is making a buck really that important to somebody? The guys I've gone to in the past have made money off me, I don't mind, happy for them, and I appreciated their help. But when you start behaving in that manner, I just gotta wonder what's really going on over there.

I mean things like leaving lines hanging down in front of the tire, not once, but twice in a row. It's negligent to boot. And rather than saying, 'oh crap, sorry'. They start covering it up by denying the problem exists, claiming the customer never told them about and is lying, and then the refusal to address it once all of those are proven false. That's the stuff that really gets me.

[a4kamila6]

Damn and I thought 034 was a serious shop. I have their motor mounts on my daily, did I make a mistake? Who knows. Have their intercooler hoses, f pipe, diverter valves hoses, and a few other things.

If they tried to sell me some bullshit like that I would ask them to leave the car as is, and I'd go down there and pick it up personally. Its hard to prove something was broken or damaged after you gave the car into service, but this post you just made will hurt them.

What a joke. I hope the dont treat all their customers like this. Seems like they thought you were completely stupid. What dipshits.

[james 408]

like go read their yelp reviews. There's stories of curbed exhausts etc. that they just stiffed the customer on. Obviously you gotta take this stuff with a grain of salt, and I know I did, but then it happened to me, and I saw how they react in response. That's why I posted this. I'm legitimately concerned for the community.

Many of their parts should be fine. Others... not so much. There's been a number of threads going way back about issues with some of them. I know I've personally snapped their motor mounts shortly after install, same with their tbbs delaminating but I think they've revised the TBB so not sure now. I'd also caution against their adjustable uppers, the aurora brand rod ends they use have been put on a number of products including CPP and Istook, lotsa people with problems just because they start to develop play in them pretty quick. And the RSB i'm sure is fine, but most companies stopped producing solid bars decades ago in favor of hollow bars. Anecdotally, they didn't even use their own RSB on their time attack car. Just hit or miss, can talk to competitors or scan the archives for some of the details. When their motor mounts completely sheared it tore out the snub mount and surrounding cage -- this was only a few k miles after install (installed and torqued properly) and they stiffed me on it. To be fair I sheared the stock ones too, so I think it's just not a very resilient design that they copied.

The icing on the cake was when they backed out of the agreement to work on the suspension and brake items because they said they were scared I was going to brake their stuff cause I race the car. Never seen a performance tuner take that perspective, most are happy to have a customer that needs to replace things regularly. I mean if they'd just taken care of me in an equitable manner they'd have made their money back off of me (and considering how much I'd spent there in parts prior to this incident, I can't even understand their logic from a strictly business perspective, let alone from an ethical one).

[a4kamila6]

Anytime I have called them or asked for their input, they have been very polite and helpful.

I cant say anything about their actual work, but doesnt seem like you were unreasonable

[034Motorsport]

Hello James,

We want to preface by saying that it is never our intention to get to this point with a customer. We have the pleasure of servicing hundreds of customer vehicles every year in our service department. Our primary goal is to delight and satisfy every customer by offering the best parts, service, and support for their vehicle.

In the rare instances in which issues arise, we do our best to resolve any concerns and take responsibility for our part in allowing things to stray from anything but a perfect experience.

We can empathize with the frustration of feeling like you haven’t received what you’ve paid for - that’s why we take situations like this so seriously. We worked with you last month in a lengthy attempt to address any and all of your concerns related to the work we performed in the spring of 2015. In addition to rectifying the issues you brought up and honoring our own service warranty, we performed multiple unrelated service items for you as a gesture of goodwill.

Throughout this process, you continually added new demands, unrelated to any past work or discussions, and threatened to leave negative feedback about 034Motorsport if those demands were not met. The work began with a clearly defined scope, and became constantly moving target with every new request. We simply are not able to continue to providing products and services at no charge, beyond any warranty responsibility or reasonable expectation we had outlined previously.

All of the work we performed on your S4 this year was done free of charge, and we covered the cost of shipping the vehicle back to Washington for you. All items listed in a signed agreement that you drafted, defining the scope of work, were addressed.

We pride ourselves in working with customers, and going above and beyond what any other company would do. However, due to the unreasonable nature of your demands and unpredictable demeanor towards our staff, we feel it is in everyone’s best interest to part ways.

Sincerely,
The 034Motorsport Team

[88ninety9]

Never bought an 034 product or dealt with them at all, but if a shop left my hoses hanging and called me a liar (especially after a bit like this) I'd be hostile too. This is why only I work on my car. Nobody to blame but myself if something goes wrong. That, and I know what kind of care my car is in at all times. Cut your losses and move on James, you clearly aren't going to get anywhere with 034. Take your car to AMD next time you aren't able to service the car yourself. Or be like me, and let it sit until you do have time to wrench
Thanks for sharing your experience

[Drehmoment]

lol everybody is a expert in the B5S4 forum world when it comes to wrenching but truth be told most are completely incompetent......most are actually total hacks ,comes with the territory of a 5 k car but they are good bashing shops who work on those piles.

Overboost ? By any chance Vast with every ME 7 safeguard disabled but pulls strooooong......... owner zip tied oil cooler.....what other " improvements " are there ? lol that's all i need to know about the threadstarter Drift king.

I also bet that AMD is not getting involved with this guy

[ayjay]

lol everybody is a expert in the B5S4 forum world when it comes to wrenching but truth be told most are completely incompetent......most are actually total hacks ,comes with the territory of a 5 k car but they are good bashing shops who work on those piles.

Overboost ? By any chance Vast with every ME 7 safeguard disabled but pulls strooooong......... owner zip tied oil cooler.....what other " improvements " are there ? lol that's all i need to know about the threadstarter Drift king.

I also bet that AMD is not getting involved with this guy

O no he uses zip ties everything else he said must not be valid right?

[e30mclow]

The same thing happened to me with another independent shop when I first got my car. Went in for $3-400 worth of work and couldn't leave without paying almost $3k.

It happens and it hurts. $6k is serious beans though.

[james 408]

Throughout this process, you continually added new demands, unrelated to any past work or discussions, and threatened to leave negative feedback about 034Motorsport if those demands were not met. The work began with a clearly defined scope, and became constantly moving target with every new request. We simply are not able to continue to providing products and services at no charge, beyond any warranty responsibility or reasonable expectation we had outlined previously.

This is where the BS begins. I never once changed my demands (except to accommodate your revised position), but when you refused to do the work you agreed to do, I said well then you gotta do something else to make up for it. It's like convincing my niece to eat her vegetables... "but they fell out of my sandwich"... "oh really? they all fell out? none of the cheese or meat fell out?" ... "well i ate the cheese and meat, but the veggies are all cold now" ... "eat your vegetables or you can just sit there and watch me eat my desert" (love her to death)

It was you who agreed to work on some of the maintenance items and then 'reneged'. Then tried to stiff me. Then finally after complaining directly to the owner about that fact pattern, he stepped in and made sure you at least did something. Then before you delivered the vehicle, you forced me to sign a release of liability for you because you knew there were problems and didn't want to be held responsible for your actions.

Just unethical, start to finish. Making false accusations. It's sickening. Get your act together guys.

My treatment of your employees was entirely fair until they called me a liar and refused to do what they had already agreed to do -- which happened repeatedly -- and is again happening now. I exercised every ounce of patience I had to keep moving towards a resolution, and was constantly biting my tongue. Did I say 'this is f'ing rediculous' to your employees when they called me a liar? yes. Did I say 'this is f'ing rediculous when you backed out of the agreements and forced yet another renegotiation? yes. Is this abusing your employees or unpredictable? Not to any sane person. Is this abusing your customer? Definitely. Half the time I just laughed instead of getting mad, you guys are comedy.

You kept trying to weasel your way out of what you'd agreed to do because of some BS you came up with. Did I use the term 'incompetence' after the 2nd service and you apparently forgot to address the blatantly obvious safety issue despite repeatedly reminding you? Yes. Am I sorry for that? Not really, honestly I put in way more effort to work with you guys than I should have. I could have gotten that done for a fraction of the cost (time = money); this was about right and wrong. Fix the stuff you broke, simple as that. Still waiting for it. A simple "I'm sorry" and paying to fix the safety issue (literally service position, pull the plastic, and zip tie) was all I was asking to keep this out of the limelight, and you refused to do it. Frankly, I wasn't even remotely surprised you'd try to stiff me anymore. I just find it funny now. A sick funny, but funny. I'm not stupid, I know you aren't going to step up; I know you guys quite well now. I've long since given up on an equitable outcome here. I gave up on that a very long time ago. You beat me into submission; congrats. You're welcome to keep making slanderous statements about my character, and I will continue to spill the facts. At this point I'm strictly trying to protect others; hopefully you've learned something from this but I doubt it.

And you're damn straight I tried to warn you about posting it online. This is the last thing I wanted to happen. I just can't let this type of behavior go, again. I've let it go in the past, but the pattern is established and I'm legitimately concerned for the community. This isn't done out of spite, this is done to warn people of your behavior. I wish I'd accomplished changing your behavior, but it certainly doesn't seem like it. You guys probably had a meeting over that message you posted and still decided to slander your customer.

[james 408]

lol everybody is a expert in the B5S4 forum world when it comes to wrenching but truth be told most are completely incompetent......most are actually total hacks ,comes with the territory of a 5 k car but they are good bashing shops who work on those piles.

Overboost ? By any chance Vast with every ME 7 safeguard disabled but pulls strooooong......... owner zip tied oil cooler.....what other " improvements " are there ? lol that's all i need to know about the threadstarter Drift king.

I also bet that AMD is not getting involved with this guy

actually in contact with AMD right now, love those guys. That's who I'll go to to clean up the mess, if I don't handle it myself. Although there are still issues with the car misfiring, there's damage to the cams (which were inspected and in good condition at the time (few kmiles before the first service). They returned it with low oil, although it's possible that we put it together with some debris in there so I won't put this directly on them), and the headlight still wiggles around (I think they worked on the wrong side headlight during the 2nd service interval (it's likely there was some damage to the tabs on that side too, but I don't recall it being a problem), and 'couldn't' on the first service interval but charged me for the part). There's other minor stuff I'm leaving out, again I'm distracting from the meat of the problem.

And the fix to the lines hanging down will probably be to zip tie the cooler back on there in the proper location, worked for years without issue. In fact overheating issues were some of my first mods due to track use, so i'd guess I'd had it like that for over a decade. Unfortunately the cooler is kinda ruined (or at least reduced cooling capacity) as a result of their actions.

since I got so many posts about this likely being one of those cases where the customer is just blaming them for something they didn't do and is being unreasonable, I thought I'd add this as a separate line:

You're not the first to assume this is one of those cases where the customer is blaming them for something they didn't do. I don't blame you, I usually take that perspective myself, but here's the deal:
I've owned the car since 2003, I've never taken a cost minimization approach to anything (okay I guess welding some tabs to mount the cooler would be a better route, fair enough; but that's why I let them touch it, cause I thought they were gonna improve it). Again stuff breaking in their shop is really not the issue here, I was satisfied to pay for the turbos at cost; although I was less so when they started lying to me about it, accusing me of lying, and then all this other stuff happened. When they brought stuff to my attention initially, I was like, sure, replace it if it's bad. But then I started catching on. I mean when you know a part is good (not only did I know it then but it's proven now cause i'm looking at it), and they tell you it's broken and want to charge you for a new one... That's when I knew I was in some muck. Figured it could have been a mistake, but my personal opinion is that it's likely there's something else going on here. Just wish I'd caught on sooner. That's where the problem is. It's the right and wrong issues. The deception, the outright lying, and then the manner in which they conducted themselves (and continue to conduct themselves). Add on to that the number of mistakes they made, and you've really got yourself a pretty rotten picture.

When I think of the resolution process starting over a year ago and the manner in which the claim was handled, I'd rather have dealth with an insurance claim 10 fold. My favorite is how they try to spin the time that has passed as a positive. Unbelievable.

[james 408]

here's a couple samples of me moving the bar and mistreating their employees:

Fri 8/12, 6:55 PM
[email protected]

A broadspectrum waiver of responsibility? this is you standing by your product? *And you accuse me of moving the bar on you?

Javad, this is your customer crying for help, directly to you.

__________________________________________________ __
[can't find the one where i sent it directly to javad after they called me a liar and that I was backpedaling on the agreement, but basically it stated "does this look like I agreed to your proposed resolution to you?" and forwarded the below email to them]


To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Billing discussion
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:23:46 -0400

Hi Sonu,

I'd really like to move ahead, but I feel like we've gotten pretty far from what we discussed as a resolution during the billing discussion.* In fact, it has*gotten worse with every iteration.* I get that you don't want to commit to fixing something expensive that isn't your fault, but some of these smaller items we discussed would be covered by 034, are now explicitly labeled as billable to the customer.

I mean the entire reason the tune/fueling kit was purchased was to resolve the overboosting, and as a condition of purchase, I was very clear that if it didn't resolve the issue, then I wanted it refunded -- which Christian agreed to and was a condition of the purchase.* I mean there are very significant issues we 'put a pin in' during the billing discussion, and the resolution proposed at the time more adequately offset these issues.

I mean if the spirit of what you intend to do is more extensive than what you're obliging to below, then maybe I'm on board and*I'll put my faith in you guys to do the right thing here.* I mean the language in this email is far more conservative than the language you used to summarize each paragraph while you read it to me; and completely off from what was discussed during the billing discussion.* I'm concerned that*this is just you're going to solve the overboosting now, run some tests on it and recommend I spend more money on the car; we're so far off from what we discussed*during the billing discussion*that I'm a bit baffled as to what happened here.

Let's have a chat in the AM.

_________

[this is when they tried to say that them diagnosing the misfires took them about 8 hours to discover it was a bad sparkplug and camshaft adjuster, and wanted that to entirely offset the prior service issues, and have me pay for the plugs. On the phone he says: look it's like if we did a moon landing, and you only gave us credit for sticking a flag in the dirt]

the overboosting appears to be from a faulty wastegate line, apparently a direct repeat of your initial service.

Some faulty spark plugs were found related to the misfires.* 034 reports misfire problem may be resolved. Customer is asked to pay for the fouled plugs, customer has not agreed to this at this time.

additional diagnosis:* faulty cam position actuator.* 034 quotes 9.5 hours and 125 an hour; competitor quotes 5.5 hours and approx. 75-80 an hour.** Due to being out of town as a result of shipping the car to you, I am forced to tow the car from a car shop, to another shop, to have it fixed.*

additional note:
034 accrued approx. 8 hours related to the above -- not billable to the customer.

Just wanted to keep us on the same page.

Look, I loved the moon analogy, but*I've asked a carshop to repair a car on earth, not repair a car on the moon.* Just an fyi, the competitor will likely give me an additional discount just because I've had this experience with*your shop*-- now that's service.*
__________________________________________________ ____________________________


[Like I'm trying to tell you guys, their conflict resolution skills are horrendous. They kept trying to weasel their way out of it, and went through great lengths to do it. They kept trying to get me to agree to stuff in writing that was misrepresentative of what they agreed to on the phone. It was sickening, and a complete waste of my time. That's why I'm puting this info out there, even if you do get them to agree to step up, GET IT IN WRITING. Shady as hell. Better yet, avoid them altogether, trust me, it's just not worth it]

[james 408]

The same thing happened to me with another independent shop when I first got my car. Went in for $3-400 worth of work and couldn't leave without paying almost $3k.

It happens and it hurts. $6k is serious beans though.

yeah, I mean that stuff happens all the time. Honestly if they catch something that needs to be fixed I'm happy to pay them the extra money. I've even left $$ tips to guys in this situation because I've had competitor shops go above and beyond addressing stuff for free while they're in there. If you need a recommendation for shops in the bay area or seattle let me know, but having costs go up relative to expected is the least of the problems here.

[themadscientist]

Oh look the guy who knows everything about everything doesn't work on his own car.

Neat.

As a business owner, I know it's literally impossible to please everyone. Period. Bad timing is also the mother of all whores. There's steps that can be taken to prevent unfortunate scenarios but I've had cars with overdue timing belts, shred those overdue belts while in my possession, among other things. Shit happens. It's also why I screen customers and work on referral basis only.

Post screenshots of every email/conversation, unedited, from start to finish. Otherwise, it's just two very undisclosed sides of a story.

I'll also say I've seen a noticeable drop in the quality of 034's products in recent years, fwiw. Over and out.

[james 408]

Wow, okay. Well I'll start with an apology: I'm sorry if I share my opinions and contradicted yours in the past. I'm not really sure what inspired you to make that comment.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not a mechanic by trade and am humble enough to recognize the difference. But I've raced this car for 13 years, actively read and participated in the forums, and I like to think I can add some value in posts by sharing some of the information I've gathered from people much smarter than myself. I do work on my own car, although not as much as I probably should (just cause I like learning, it makes zero sense economically, read below). I even operated a motorcycle repair facility out my garage when I was younger, but the neighbors started complaining about the harleys, sportbikes, atvs, and snowmobiles and air compressor being fired up, so I shut it down out of respect for my neighbors. Boy have we gotten off-topic. Let me know if I owe you an apology for something, happy to. Also, take a spin through an economist called 'David Ricardo'. Economically, working on the car myself actually doesn't make any sense unless it's something super simple and the shop is really far away. Basically it has to do with relative salaries and relative expertise. It's the reason society's work and we're no longer subsistance farming. It's taught today in economics courses under the term 'comparitive advantage', whereby a society's total output is increased -- even if one party is better at both (which I'm not trying to claim is the case here). Then there's the compounding effect of 'specialization'. If you want to start an off-topic thread I'd be happy to dive into the issue in more depth and link you some of the proofs. Off-topic and a half right there. I guess maybe this explains your comment

Like I said, never had a problem with any competitors (stuff has broken in their shop or shortly thereafter, but that has nothing to do with my complaints, and they were super stand-up about it), and did my best to give 034 a chance to rectify it. It's literally been a year and a half I've kept my mouth shut and tried to work with them. If you'd like I can PM you full copies of every email, with the expectation of keeping my name confidential. You're welcome to post any of it, although i reserve the right to respond to it if anything is taken out of context (not sure i've said anything in writing that can be taken out of context, but not sure how much wordsmithing might happen).

Those emails are entirely unedited, except for removing my email address because I have the right to do so. The asterisks are only in there because they auto-pop when i copy-paste from outlook. That's why they're in the initial post, I sent it to them to get their feedback so I could make it more bipartisan. Unfortunately the initial post is largely straight fact, and their written response I included in the initial post. I even called them afterward to be sure they didn't dispute any of the facts, and they didn't have any specific facts they disagreed with. Let me know if there's any context you'd like me to add, happy to do it.

Most of what I've written in this post you'll find paraphrased in the emails -- and anything I've quoted as directly from an email, is exactly that. I've inserted [brackets] as the standard symbol for anything that i'm adding to the direct, verbatum, copy-paste.

It's not in recent years, many of my purchases from them were half a decade or longer ago. Many have been improved upon because they had so many complaints. Read the archived forums for specific examples.

It's unfortunate I don't have audio recordings, I would happily post those as well so you can see the full-extent of things. Honestly I'm still biting my tongue on a lot of it.

[james 408]

034 Motorsport

Here's a quick business lesson on conflict resolution. Feel free to run this by your accountants, maybe they can knock some sense into you. I'd like you to do a quick exercise:
1) Tally up the amount of time you spent talking to customers about issues, emailing, and discussing issues internally -- and apply the salary+benefits of the associated employees. Now add in the risk of lost business and the value of customer time (can omit this last item if you don't care about ethics, but you should probably increase the risk of lost business). We'll call this the cost of trying to stiff the customer (CSC)
2) Tally up the amount of time you spent working on the car during the 2nd service interval, again, apply salary + benefits. Now add in the probability of increased business. We'll call this the cost of providing value (CPV)

Now ideally, you should minimize your CSC and maximize your CPV from an ethical perspective, but in a strictly business sense, you want to minimize the total cost. Now when I do this exercise in my head, I think your CSC exceeds your CPV by a factor of at least 2 to 1. Therein lies your problem; you've greatly increased the risk of lost business, and minimized providing value.

Now in order to minimize both CSC and CPV, the best approach is to act ethically in the first place, and you might not have any. If it's mistakes that caused it, well then you want to compare the cost of training and quality control to the total of CSC+CPV; the proper equation is training + Quality control = CSC + CPV. I suspect you're way out of wack on this from an ethical perspective. And in the shortrun, you may see a benefit to your bottom line; but in the long run that risk of lost business starts showing up. Apply time value of money concepts appropriately. Obviously it's the value of lost business and the value of increased business that's difficult to quantify. But if you believe in ethics, it all becomes much simpler.

[james 408]

You should see some of the emails and messages I've gotten from other people about this type of thing happening @ 034 and their distributors. A lot of people just don't want to speak up about their experiences. I can understand, it's not only embarassing but some shops go out of their way to slander their customers . Some have even had trouble getting their car worked on as a result.

I'm telling you guys, this is going to start catching up to you.

[Joseph111]

James,

I feel your frustration. I'm going through a problem with a well-known shop here in Socal, but I'm going to give them a chance to respond to me before I give any details on here.

[james 408]

yeah, I've found most shops will step up to the plate if you're honest about it and fair. You gotta consider their perspective and the possibility they aren't at fault about things. Call me an accountant, but I like to assign a probability to the at fault percentage, then multiply that times the damages -- and use that as the measure of a fair outcome. Some won't even argue, and even go the extra mile to make up for mistakes. That's why I was so surprised on this one. When I talked to them live they seemed to be trying to do something about it, but it was just a facade. They were really just trying to avoid litigation. The moment they thought they had enough to avoid litigation they showed their true color pretty darn quick.

Had a buddy who didn't even try to settle and just went straight for a lawyer. I thought it was unfair because people make mistakes, and getting lawyers and courts involved just reduces the likelyhood of a fair outcome if both parties are reasonable and honest. But he got a pretty good payout and didn't spend much time on it. Still feel bad for the business.

The really surprising part is how much time they spent trying to avoid the litigation, rather than just conceding to a fair outcome in a quick and reasonable manner and spending a fraction of that working on the car. Forget ethics, that's just bad business. (when I sent this line to the owner, that's when they actually agreed to do something, money is the only line of logic that seemed to have any effect on these people).

If anybody is dealing with or in the future deals with a claim against 034, I highly recommend just going straight for the lawyer. With other businesses, I personally won't, I'm willing to make the same mistake because usually I find that people try to do the right thing.

[james 408]

All items listed in a signed agreement that you drafted, defining the scope of work, were addressed.

Who are you even trying to lie to at this point? Yourself? Here I'll just use your own words:

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Sonu Atwal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi James,

Please see the attached agreement, invoices and dyno plot.* I essentially took your statement and added details regarding the services performed over the past few weeks.* I also noted all historical invoices and resolutions for those as well.


[you guys are so corrupt it's insane. Remember what I said in response to being forced to sign the agreement before you so honorably agreed to do the work free of charge? Or wait, you already did agree to it, you just reneged again and threatened to have me pay the initial invoice balance I refused to pay on day 1, PLUS the incremental charges or you wouldn't return the car to me. yeah. Just unbelievable. Then you return the car to me with issues present listed in the agreement that you deny exist, and omitted items you promised to take care of but didn't. Then you have the nerve to slander me as your gut reaction rather than defending yourself based on facts -- oh wait, you can't defend yourself using facts.]

[the unpaid portion on day 1 was pretty small too, I told you guys when I paid what I did that we'd be having a conversation about a refund, and that you had to address some of the issues that were immediately apparent before I even put the keys in the ignition, and sent you notes repeatedly without any response except 'we'll chat later' until I threatened to litigate. I kept trying to get a response as I kept telling you all the problems I found that were a direct and verifiable result of your service. Many of the issues I just gave up and did the work without you. Then you couldn't even get me evidence of damage to the parts you replaced and charged me for; gotta wonder why.]

[One of the issues that occurred very shortly after being in your shop, I experienced a complete tire pressure blowout as the brake caliper bolt snapped (apparently loose) and sent the caliper through the wheel -- maybe not your fault -- although the pads had been in there for, at least, few hard drives without issue prior to your service -- didn't even ask for the money on that one, but please do a safety check before you send a car out, I know your competitor in the area does (and he charges far less, about half before considering padded hours). I'm just glad I didn't get hurt. I'll have to go fix these lines hanging down so I don't get injured as a result of your negligence on this front as well.]

[Also, don't add an hour to the book rate of a repair job, and represent it as a 'significant discount' and 'the best we can do'. Especially in the situation where the customers car is only in there for warranty work and needs the adjuster changed before you can properly perform the warranty work]

We pride ourselves in working with customers, and going above and beyond what any other company would do.

Dillusional. Your competitors are apologizing to me on your behalf. They also laughed at your cost basis. Don't blame them, I've seen the books of many of your competitors, feel free to prove me wrong -- we both know you can't. I'll sign confidentiality, or you can just whiteout the name/ssn. Tried this exercise during the billing discussion didn't get anywhere near it. You didn't even use consistant rates in the invoice. Took you 5 hours with a cost basis of $85 an hour to swap CHRAs, eh? Plus 21 hours at $75 an hour for the motor pull and reinstall? Or how about an hour to replace a sandwich plate O-ring on the oil cooler when the engine's out! sure bud, sure. $138 in just labor to replace an o-ring on the air temp sensor? Should I go on? You charged as much or more than competitors at full retail. $1200 for chra's huh? 30% over full retail! Why not try to charge the customer $2200 for a fueling kit he doesn't need and is completely unrelated to the problem? I guess that's why when I first brought up the billing issues directly to the owner on the phone, the first words out of your mouth were (more or less) 'we didn't have a contract; verbal contracts aren't binding'. We'll just call you "Shady Shadzi" from here on out.
Or provide evidence of the 'broken' parts you replaced. Not that either? Thought so. Shame on you. I'll even promise a complete retraction of this entire thing, not because you didn't still stiff me, but because I am that positive you're full of it.

Take pride in ripping people off is more like it. And lying to their face in the process. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[james 408]

In the rare instances in which issues arise, we do our best to resolve any concerns and take responsibility for our part in allowing things to stray from anything but a perfect experience.

What planet are you living on?

[Bordom]

Who are you even trying to lie to at this point? Yourself? Here I'll just use your own words:

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Sonu Atwal <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi James,

Please see the attached agreement, invoices and dyno plot.* I essentially took your statement and added details regarding the services performed over the past few weeks.* I also noted all historical invoices and resolutions for those as well.


[you guys are so corrupt it's insane. Remember what I said in response to being forced to sign the agreement before you so honorably agreed to do the work free of charge? Or wait, you already did agree to it, you just reneged again and threatened to have me pay the initial invoice balance I refused to pay on day 1, PLUS the incremental charges or you wouldn't return the car to me. yeah. Just unbelievable. Then you return the car to me with issues present listed in the agreement that you deny exist, and omitted items you promised to take care of but didn't. Then you have the nerve to slander me as your gut reaction rather than defending yourself based on facts -- oh wait, you can't defend yourself using facts.]

[the unpaid portion on day 1 was pretty small too, I told you guys when I paid what I did that we'd be having a conversation about a refund, and that you had to address some of the issues that were immediately apparent before I even put the keys in the ignition, and sent you notes repeatedly without any response except 'we'll chat later' until I threatened to litigate. I kept trying to get a response as I kept telling you all the problems I found that were a direct and verifiable result of your service. Many of the issues I just gave up and did the work without you. Then you couldn't even get me evidence of damage to the parts you replaced and charged me for; gotta wonder why.]

[One of the issues that occurred very shortly after being in your shop, I experienced a complete tire pressure blowout as the brake caliper bolt snapped (apparently loose) and sent the caliper through the wheel -- maybe not your fault -- although the pads had been in there for, at least, few hard drives without issue prior to your service -- didn't even ask for the money on that one, but please do a safety check before you send a car out, I know your competitor in the area does (and he charges far less, about half before considering padded hours). I'm just glad I didn't get hurt. I'll have to go fix these lines hanging down so I don't get injured as a result of your negligence on this front as well.]

[Also, don't add an hour to the book rate of a repair job, and represent it as a 'significant discount' and 'the best we can do'. Especially in the situation where the customers car is only in there for warranty work and needs the adjuster changed before you can properly perform the warranty work]


Dillusional. Your competitors are apologizing to me on your behalf. They also laughed at your cost basis. Don't blame them, I've seen the books of many of your competitors, feel free to prove me wrong -- we both know you can't. I'll sign confidentiality, or you can just whiteout the name/ssn. Tried this exercise during the billing discussion didn't get anywhere near it. You didn't even use consistant rates in the invoice. Took you 5 hours with a cost basis of $85 an hour to swap CHRAs, eh? Plus 21 hours at $75 an hour for the motor pull and reinstall? Or how about an hour to replace a sandwich plate O-ring on the oil cooler when the engine's out! sure bud, sure. $138 in just labor to replace an o-ring on the air temp sensor? Should I go on? You charged as much or more than competitors at full retail. $1200 for chra's huh? 30% over full retail! Why not try to charge the customer $2200 for a fueling kit he doesn't need and is completely unrelated to the problem? I guess that's why when I first brought up the billing issues directly to the owner on the phone, the first words out of your mouth were (more or less) 'we didn't have a contract; verbal contracts aren't binding'. We'll just call you "Shady Shadzi" from here on out.
Or provide evidence of the 'broken' parts you replaced. Not that either? Thought so. Shame on you. I'll even promise a complete retraction of this entire thing, not because you didn't still stiff me, but because I am that positive you're full of it.

Take pride in ripping people off is more like it. And lying to their face in the process. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Where is the rest of that email? Don't leave us hanging

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[james 408]

what the attachments? my name's on all of them, i'll print this stuff out, black out my name, and rescan shortly. If you got an editor I can send it to you if you want. Trying to get the dyno from them with a more reasonable smoothing factor, but fat chance at this stage I'm guessing.

nothing in the rest of the email but his signature

Regards,
Sonu Atwal
Service Manager
510-657-6708 X106

Check us out on Yelp!

here was my response to it after a few phone calls that would have been fantastic to have audio on:

Please find attached the signed agreement.* I still don't like that you held my car captive to force me to sign this.* Frankly I shouldn't but you've worn me out.* Pretty sure this is illegal.


[I don't really think it was 'illegal' per se, 'unethical' would be a better word choice. I'd have just let the whole thing go if they'd shipped me the car and let me sign it when I received it so I could see it was as promised. Unfortunately they didn't let me receive the car first and the car was not as promised. I think this was their plan from the outset, to get my car in the shop, rack up some charges but minimize anything done for free, then force me to sign away liability. I predicted as much in the email mid-page, but honestly I didn't think they'd try to stiff me on the freebies like brake/suspension refreshes -- but they were commited to not helping me out, that's for sure. And obviously I use terms like freebies pretty loosely, they owe me a couple grand yet by my equitable analysis; and that's before considering loss of use, time/hardship, and the like which I was prepared to eat anyway. Such is life I guess. You don't earn the name Shady Shadzi for nothing.]

[a4kamila6]

For the money you spent with them, you could have bought basically every tool you need to work on this car in a driveway or garage.

Last time I went to the local shop was 3 years ago for a full atf change, filter and fluid. Only reason? Didnt yet have a container/pump to fill the atf back in.. draining is easy.

So unless you dont have any time at all or just dont like wrenching, invest in tools! And like many guys have said, work on your own car. If shit happens you know exactly what happened, and what to expect. Ill be honest, i bought my project c5 last november and im still wrenching on her little by little. Its also a learning experience for me, get to do maintenance i have never done before. Dont get me wrong, she runs and drives fine, is road worthy, but shes just not where i want her to be yet.