Found out my car has a tune

[chichum]

Hey - recently bought a used 2014 S5 from a dealership in PA. I took it in to have maintenance done and I got a call from the service manager telling me the car is TD1 flagged because it has a tune (I was wondering why it was so much faster than my S4!). Here are my questions:

1. The car was certified by the dealership I bought it from. Could they really have missed this?
2. What does that mean for my warranty? Is the entire thing void?
3. What would you suggest I do about this? They didn't tell me before I bought it. I feel like this is something I should have known. Partial refund? Guarantee it'll be repaired? The issue is I live in VA so taking it to PA for warranty at their dealership isn't an option.
4. How do I figure out what tune it has? Do I have to call everywhere and give them the VIN? What are the tunes available other than APR?

Thanks in advance
Jeff

[q5 dave]

What do you mean the car was certified?

[Luis_Heineken]

All those questions? You need to ask the dealer

[chichum]

All those questions? You need to ask the dealer

CPO - they did the certification at the dealership I bought it from.

[Jsmithdmi]

I found out from my local dealership when the driver side cat was going bad on my 2010 S5 that my car had a tune on it. That allowed them to "void" the federally mandated emissions warranty that covers a car until 80k and save the dealership from having to do the expensive 3500 repair. Yet the most frustrating part is they can't/won't provide any proof except their "system says there was a tune at one time". It's a semi nasty situation. Upon asking more questions I've learned that something as simple as putting a K&N air filter can trigger that notification then in turn allowing Audi USA to get out of doing these costly repairs.


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[chichum]

Other than APR and GAIC, what tunes are there? APR has no record so it's not theirs.

[HazeMyth]

Upon asking more questions I've learned that something as simple as putting a K&N air filter can trigger that notification then in turn allowing Audi USA to get out of doing these costly repairs.

I think whoever you talked to was full of shit. For one, the burden of proof falls with manufacturers, and unless a manufacturer can prove that a specific item is to blame for a failure they are not allowed to void a warranty in the US market. Secondly, there's no changes with the computer just from changing an air filter. Yes, air flow can be impacted by the filter change, but it doesn't actually change anything on the ECU. An automatic TD1 flag occurs when Audi's software detects a change within the ECU's software. An intake, especially just a changed filter on a stock intake, would not be detected by that scan.

[Chris@EPL]

Could be ours, but since we let people sell their tunes I doubt it. If the car was CPO it sounds like they owe you a new car or they will put it back to stock and remove the TD1.

[Jsmithdmi]

I think whoever you talked to was full of shit. For one, the burden of proof falls with manufacturers, and unless a manufacturer can prove that a specific item is to blame for a failure they are not allowed to void a warranty in the US market. Secondly, there's no changes with the computer just from changing an air filter. Yes, air flow can be impacted by the filter change, but it doesn't actually change anything on the ECU. An automatic TD1 flag occurs when Audi's software detects a change within the ECU's software. An intake, especially just a changed filter on a stock intake, would not be detected by that scan.

Trust me I don't disagree at all! They have continued to submit to Audi USA and despite not being able to prove the car has ever been tuned (this is my second S5 I've owned in a year and it's not any faster than the previous one so it doesn't feel like it's tuned) they have continued to deny the claim to repair under federal emissions warranty. My local shop thinks it's BS also and I've even attempted to escalate through service channels but have gotten nowhere, and I haven't wanted to get an attorney involved.


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[HazeMyth]

^ Have you tried to go to a different Audi dealership to see if they're more willing to help you? Have they at least been able to tell you exactly when the TD1 flag occurred?

Part of the CPO process calls for scanning the ECU and checking all of the versions of software on the vehicle. If the car passed CPO and they later tell you that it's been tuned, I would say someone didn't do their job during the CPO process.

[LINDW4LL]

A TD1 car cannot be sold as CPO.

[chichum]

Could be ours, but since we let people sell their tunes I doubt it. If the car was CPO it sounds like they owe you a new car or they will put it back to stock and remove the TD1.

Are you able to check my VIN to see if it is yours? Last 6 are 019449

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A TD1 car cannot be sold as CPO.

I don't disagree. I'm thinking it wasn't a TD1 when they sold it and it was my local dealership that put the flag on it when I brought it in last time.

[LINDW4LL]

I don't disagree. I'm thinking it wasn't a TD1 when they sold it and it was my local dealership that put the flag on it when I brought it in last time.

That's definitely possible- ask your service manager when it was first flagged, if you haven't yet. But regardless, as Haze mentioned, the car should have been scanned by the selling dealership before they certified it.

[Chris@EPL]

Are you able to check my VIN to see if it is yours? Last 6 are 019449

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I don't disagree. I'm thinking it wasn't a TD1 when they sold it and it was my local dealership that put the flag on it when I brought it in last time.

All our stuff is based off of the Owner's name, nit the VIN.

[namvar]

All those questions? You need to ask the dealer

This ^^

[Audiforumuser]

CPO - they did the certification at the dealership I bought it from.

The date the car was flagged TD1 is important here. If that date is prior to the CPO date than they missed it in their CPO process. If that's the case, there is no way they can void that warranty.

[chichum]

I was able to get in touch with Audi USA and they confirmed that the TD1 was placed on the car 7/26/16 which was before I bought it and right around the time they were doing the CPO.

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The date the car was flagged TD1 is important here. If that date is prior to the CPO date than they missed it in their CPO process. If that's the case, there is no way they can void that warranty.

Would this mean that I can keep the tune and the warranty or would it mean they need to tune it back to stock?

[mcbuck]

I would argue that you bought the car as it is currently configured therefore they have no right to downgrade it (remove the tune) and also since they certified it as CPO and you paid a premium for that certification, that they should also honor the warranty. If they fail to honor either part, then you have bought and paid for something that ultimatlely you did not get.

Any liability should fall on the dealership that certified it without following the correct process.

[HazeMyth]

I would argue that you bought the car as it is currently configured therefore they have no right to downgrade it (remove the tune) and also since they certified it as CPO and you paid a premium for that certification, that they should also honor the warranty. If they fail to honor either part, then you have bought and paid for something that ultimatlely you did not get.

Any liability should fall on the dealership that certified it without following the correct process.

This
This
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[bknewtype]

I would argue that you bought the car as it is currently configured therefore they have no right to downgrade it (remove the tune) and also since they certified it as CPO and you paid a premium for that certification, that they should also honor the warranty. If they fail to honor either part, then you have bought and paid for something that ultimatlely you did not get.

Any liability should fall on the dealership that certified it without following the correct process.

sounds good and all, but the OP did not buy the car knowing its tuned, so yes, they SHOULD flash it back to stock, because he thought he was buying a stock car, so he should get a stock car. I highly doubt any dealer will work on ur car once its td1'ed.

best bet right now is to have the dealer pay to flash the car back to stock, or get a new ecu so it remains stock and not tuned.

[mcbuck]

correct - the OP didn't technically know that it was tuned. BUT assuming he test drove before purchase, he then bought a car that demonstrated a certain level of performance. That performance may have been a factor in the decision to purchase. If he is forced to remove the tune, then he doesn't get that level of performance that he paid for regardless of the circumstance.

Would it be right to buy a car with ultra high performance summer tires, then when you go in for service the dealer says "those are not the correct tires, here's some all seasons"?

Just my opinion, but I think he's got a good case with AOA to keep both.

[chichum]

correct - the OP didn't technically know that it was tuned. BUT assuming he test drove before purchase, he then bought a car that demonstrated a certain level of performance. That performance may have been a factor in the decision to purchase. If he is forced to remove the tune, then he doesn't get that level of performance that he paid for regardless of the circumstance.

Would it be right to buy a car with ultra high performance summer tires, then when you go in for service the dealer says "those are not the correct tires, here's some all seasons"?

Just my opinion, but I think he's got a good case with AOA to keep both.

I like where you're head is at. I'm currently waiting for the dealership that sold me the car to get back to me and tell me what happened. I will indeed make this argument to them because I must say that car is fun to drive with the tune. Thanks for the input everyone.

[HazeMyth]

I don't know what Audi is like in the area, but it's not entirely unheard of for a manufacturer to warranty a modified car. I had a personal experience with my Evo way back in the day when I purchased it where the manufacturer opted to warranty the vehicle knowing full and well that it was modified and previously flagged.

The story:

We took delivery on the vehicle in the afternoon. The first night we got a CEL, so I brought it over to the dealership the next morning. Since the car had sat for most of its life the cats and sensors were all bad. Upon pulling up the history, the dealership saw a flag on the VIN that stated the car is not under warranty due to the work. However, it was also discovered that that particular Evo was an extremely special one. It started its life as the show car that Mits used as their flagship vehicle, and it was THE car that was at all of the auto shows when they were introducing the world to the Evo VIII. All of the work on the car was done by Mitsubishi Racing America, and those mods are what caused the vehicle to become flagged. It was also repainted at the factory 3 or 4 times before we ever owned the car, because it was sprayed with a fresh coat of paint before every show it was brought to. The service adviser reached out to the regional warranty representative and asked him to come down and look at the car, and see about getting it back under warranty due to the history of the vehicle and the mods being performed by authorized Mits engineers.

Long story short, not only did Mitsubishi re-instate the warranty, but they added an extended bumper-to-bumper warranty on the vehicle. I believe the original warranty on the VIII's was 3 yr 36k miles. I had a warranty on the car for an unlimited amount of time with a cap of 100k miles.

I was incredibly lucky in this case. I had no idea about any of the show history before we got the car. We just knew it had never been in an accident and had no service records for major services.

[bknewtype]

correct - the OP didn't technically know that it was tuned. BUT assuming he test drove before purchase, he then bought a car that demonstrated a certain level of performance. That performance may have been a factor in the decision to purchase. If he is forced to remove the tune, then he doesn't get that level of performance that he paid for regardless of the circumstance.

Would it be right to buy a car with ultra high performance summer tires, then when you go in for service the dealer says "those are not the correct tires, here's some all seasons"?

Just my opinion, but I think he's got a good case with AOA to keep both.

i agree to an extent , but if you to talk about real world, I HIGHLY doubt he would get to keep both. there is no way that AOA is going to let him keep a td1'ed tuned car AND have warranty. they would probably either
1) giv him compensation and rid the CPO
2) pay to untune the car so he can keep the CPO
3) buy back the car

ur example doesn't make much sense as some of the cars do come with summer performance, but no car will come with a tune ( stock ).

in a perfect world where everything willg o his way, sure its lovely to have td1, a tune, and get to keep the CPO. I just don't see it happening

[bknewtype]

I don't know what Audi is like in the area, but it's not entirely unheard of for a manufacturer to warranty a modified car. I had a personal experience with my Evo way back in the day when I purchased it where the manufacturer opted to warranty the vehicle knowing full and well that it was modified and previously flagged.

The story:

We took delivery on the vehicle in the afternoon. The first night we got a CEL, so I brought it over to the dealership the next morning. Since the car had sat for most of its life the cats and sensors were all bad. Upon pulling up the history, the dealership saw a flag on the VIN that stated the car is not under warranty due to the work. However, it was also discovered that that particular Evo was an extremely special one. It started its life as the show car that Mits used as their flagship vehicle, and it was THE car that was at all of the auto shows when they were introducing the world to the Evo VIII. All of the work on the car was done by Mitsubishi Racing America, and those mods are what caused the vehicle to become flagged. It was also repainted at the factory 3 or 4 times before we ever owned the car, because it was sprayed with a fresh coat of paint before every show it was brought to. The service adviser reached out to the regional warranty representative and asked him to come down and look at the car, and see about getting it back under warranty due to the history of the vehicle and the mods being performed by authorized Mits engineers.

Long story short, not only did Mitsubishi re-instate the warranty, but they added an extended bumper-to-bumper warranty on the vehicle. I believe the original warranty on the VIII's was 3 yr 36k miles. I had a warranty on the car for an unlimited amount of time with a cap of 100k miles.

I was incredibly lucky in this case. I had no idea about any of the show history before we got the car. We just knew it had never been in an accident and had no service records for major services.

theres a difference between a car that is not under warranty, and a car that is flagged td1

[HazeMyth]

theres a difference between a car that is not under warranty, and a car that is flagged td1

My Evo was flagged. It's not called a TD1 with Mitsubishi, but it means the exact same thing. They simply refer to it as "flagged."

[bknewtype]

My Evo was flagged. It's not called a TD1 with Mitsubishi, but it means the exact same thing. They simply refer to it as "flagged."

even so, Mitsubishis and other brands are prob way more lenient with tunes. audi is not one of them, and we all know this lol

EVO's prob promote tunes, shoot

[HazeMyth]

You'd be surprised, actually. One of our local Mits dealers was offering a Buscher Racing upgrade from the dealerhip, and it came along with a stack of papers that meant you knew you were signing away the warranty. Either way, I think you're still right about some brands being more lenient than others. In OP's case though, it seems to me that the issue falls with the dealership that did the CPO inspection. They should be held accountable for passing a car through the inspection when it was actually TD1'd. I couldn't see Audi honoring the warranty with the tune in tact, but I don't think it would be unfair to expect them to flash the car back to stock or replace the ECU and strip the TD1 flag.

[Chris@EPL]

I would go for Audi reflashing the ECU/TCU to the most recent updates, keeping the CPO and have Audi cover Audi Care.

[bknewtype]

You'd be surprised, actually. One of our local Mits dealers was offering a Buscher Racing upgrade from the dealerhip, and it came along with a stack of papers that meant you knew you were signing away the warranty. Either way, I think you're still right about some brands being more lenient than others. In OP's case though, it seems to me that the issue falls with the dealership that did the CPO inspection. They should be held accountable for passing a car through the inspection when it was actually TD1'd. I couldn't see Audi honoring the warranty with the tune in tact, but I don't think it would be unfair to expect them to flash the car back to stock or replace the ECU and strip the TD1 flag.

def not. that's why I said audi will prob either replace the ECU so he keeps his CPO, or they could cancel his CPO and refund him around 2k ( which is the cost to certify a car to CPO ). I just cant see audi letting him keep both CPO and a tune

[chichum]

I would go for Audi reflashing the ECU/TCU to the most recent updates, keeping the CPO and have Audi cover Audi Care.

Already have Audi care. I think I should try to get *something* for this though. They did sell it to me this way.

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def not. that's why I said audi will prob either replace the ECU so he keeps his CPO, or they could cancel his CPO and refund him around 2k ( which is the cost to certify a car to CPO ). I just cant see audi letting him keep both CPO and a tune

I'd definitely want to keep the CPO. That's part of the reason I bought it. It only has 22k on it so still under the factory warranty.

[HazeMyth]

I'd definitely want to keep the CPO. That's part of the reason I bought it. It only has 22k on it so still under the factory warranty.

At the very least, request one of those nice Audi Sport windbreakers to make up for the inconvenience. They want like $120 for those things at our local dealership!

[Chris@EPL]

And at least a full recertification process to see if anything else was missed like tire wear or brake pad life.

[Audiforumuser]

I was able to get in touch with Audi USA and they confirmed that the TD1 was placed on the car 7/26/16 which was before I bought it and right around the time they were doing the CPO.

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Would this mean that I can keep the tune and the warranty or would it mean they need to tune it back to stock?

I agree with the subsequent posts from BK and others. I highly doubt you'll get to keep both but my point is that they need to show you when the car was flagged TD1 so that you can negotiate on a resolution. Removing the tune or keeping it and voiding the CPO warranty.

The problem is that if the Dealer tells you the car was flagged TD1 after you purchased it, your recourse in proving you did not tune it is pretty limited.

[chichum]

I agree with the subsequent posts from BK and others. I highly doubt you'll get to keep both but my point is that they need to show you when the car was flagged TD1 so that you can negotiate on a resolution. Removing the tune or keeping it and voiding the CPO warranty.

The problem is that if the Dealer tells you the car was flagged TD1 after you purchased it, your recourse in proving you did not tune it is pretty limited.

It was flagged when the dealership still owned it - right around the time they did the CPO so there is no doubt it was done before they sold it to me. I should be good on that aspect.

[Audiforumuser]

It was flagged when the dealership still owned it - right around the time they did the CPO so there is no doubt it was done before they sold it to me. I should be good on that aspect.

That's good news. If you want the CPO warranty as you've said, negotiate the removal of the tune and the TD1. There isn't much of a case for them to deny you as it should have never been certified in the first place and had you known, you likely wouldn't have purchased the car or paid a lot less for it without the CPO warranty.

[chichum]

That's good news. If you want the CPO warranty as you've said, negotiate the removal of the tune and the TD1. There isn't much of a case for them to deny you as it should have never been certified in the first place and had you known, you likely wouldn't have purchased the car or paid a lot less for it without the CPO warranty.

But it's so fast!!! I'm going to be really sad now that I know how quick the car can be.

[chichum]

not GIAC and not APR. Hmm...

[bknewtype]

But it's so fast!!! I'm going to be really sad now that I know how quick the car can be.

I assume this is an s5?

What u can do is first get a fresh ecu and then grab ur cpo and remove td1. Then flash it urself and when u bring it in, flash back to stock to lower the chances of getting td1 again

That's the only way I can see u able to keep both cpo and the tune


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[chichum]

I assume this is an s5?

What u can do is first get a fresh ecu and then grab ur cpo and remove td1. Then flash it urself and when u bring it in, flash back to stock to lower the chances of getting td1 again

That's the only way I can see u able to keep both cpo and the tune


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It is an S5 - the only issue is I don't know what tune is on it... and APR and GIAC said it's not theirs so I'm not sure who else to ask.