ECM Software Recall 2016-09-21

[Mat@1975]

Update, I got another issue after getting this recall. My engine oil temp will fluctuate (like goes to 170 and immediately goes back to 168, then goes to 170 again, and it happens all the way to 200), that's something I've never seen before. Car drives normal though.

I'm really confused as to how this update would affect oil temps. Maybe they have leaned out the a/f mixture some, causing higher EGT's and a warmer engine overall?

Agreed ,,it's supposed to do with diagnostic thresholds for the cats. Maybe the temp stays the same but is being calculated differently.


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Hello,

I also experienced the same quick flucutations in oïl temp. It just conforts me that it is not a physical oïl temp, but Something in the way the ECM calculate the oïl temp has changed.

Best

Mathieu

[adrianm8]

I had the dealer replace my thermostat earlier this year and the day I took it back the shifting was all messed up on my DSG, basically car will hold gear and not shift up at WOT, and downshifts are sluggish. They told me they didn't do any software updates, but I have a sneaky suspicion they might have done this messing up my APR stage 2 ecu and tcu flashes. Now I'm waiting to try to reflash the apr software but my local shop doesn't want to do it because they can't get an answer from apr on whether they'll get charged for flashing me again. Such a headache...


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[Mat@1975]

I'm really confused as to how this update would affect oil temps. Maybe they have leaned out the a/f mixture some, causing higher EGT's and a warmer engine overall?

This worries me. Sounds like the programming change is substantial and may affect performance. If it were just a change of a threshold to a more permissive value, why would DMV care? The fact that some people see higher oil temperatures after the ECU update, if true, confirms that the programming change affects engine operation significantly.

Hello ,

Yes, a change in engine operation should be very substential to alter oïl temp. (i think oïl temp is more rpm related, as water temp is load/combustion related).
Especially, i noticed a ~ 5-6 °C rise in oïl temp at very low load on highway (90 mph).
Also, i am now tuned again with a custom Stage 2 (one with one of the best reputation here in europe), and this oïl temp rise/fluctuations are still present. Seems that it is more the temp calculation that has changed.
Or this ECM update could also alter engine parameters (A/F ratio ?) even when the engine is remapped ? may be only on partial loads ? That would be more in par with emissions requirements.

What do you think, guys ?

BR

Mat

[db12]

I have a track event next week so think Im going to hold off on getting this done. Even though I actually had the engine light issue a month back sounds like there is no physical benefit to the consumer or the car. Just a way to alleviate the dealerships time

[RupertPupkin]

My buddy (OP) just had this done and we were taking about it. Here is my theory:

-They were frying cats due to the engine running rich with high EGTs and unburnt fuel getting into the cats.
-the OEM Richer fuel maps were to resist knock in a wide range of temperatures and climates
-Easy way of ensuring no knock on a FI engine is to run richer than needed Edit: That is the "safe" way to tune

-The fix was to lean out the A/F ratios with new fuel mapping, lowering EGTs and fuel getting into the cats
-This increases your cylinder and then coolant temps which people are seeing
-In theory it would lower power output, but maybe they also adjusted timing and valve lift/duration

Basically they remapped the ECM to run much leaner to avoid having to replace and expensive cat under warranty. They can also probably claim better MPG due to the leaning of the fuel maps.


Just a theory...

[XxSullyxX123]

My buddy (OP) just had this done and we were taking about it. Here is my theory:

-They were frying cats due to the engine running rich with high EGTs and unburnt fuel getting into the cats.
-the OEM Richer fuel maps were to resist knock in a wide range of temperatures and climates
-Easy way of ensuring no knock on a FI engine is to run richer than needed

-The fix was to lean out the A/F ratios with new fuel mapping, lowering EGTs and fuel getting into the cats
-This increases your cylinder and then coolant temps which people are seeing
-In theory it would lower power output, but maybe they also adjusted timing and valve lift/duration

Basically they remapped the ECM to run much leaner to avoid having to replace and expensive cat under warranty. They can also probably claim better MPG due to the leaning of the fuel maps.


Just a theory...

Sounds like u know what ur talking about :)

so the recall notice kinda lies about what they're actually doing. Not just playing with a sensor. Does this mean less burble to an already low burble exhaust? Or does our burbles have nothing to do with fuel hitting cats un burnt?


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[XxSullyxX123]

Also, I just bought a chipwerke. I wonder if it will affect how that works


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[RupertPupkin]

If i am correct, which I'm not sure then you would get less burble in the exhaust with a leaner map. There would not be as much "overrun" and not as much unburnt fuel in the exhaust which gives those sexy pops and burbles.

Sounds like u know what ur talking about :)

so the recall notice kinda lies about what they're actually doing. Not just playing with a sensor. Does this mean less burble to an already low burble exhaust? Or does our burbles have nothing to do with fuel hitting cats un burnt?


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[Mat@1975]

My buddy (OP) just had this done and we were taking about it. Here is my theory:

-They were frying cats due to the engine running rich with high EGTs and unburnt fuel getting into the cats.
-the OEM Richer fuel maps were to resist knock in a wide range of temperatures and climates
-Easy way of ensuring no knock on a FI engine is to run richer than needed

-The fix was to lean out the A/F ratios with new fuel mapping, lowering EGTs and fuel getting into the cats
-This increases your cylinder and then coolant temps which people are seeing
-In theory it would lower power output, but maybe they also adjusted timing and valve lift/duration

Basically they remapped the ECM to run much leaner to avoid having to replace and expensive cat under warranty. They can also probably claim better MPG due to the leaning of the fuel maps.


Just a theory...

Hi there !

Very interresting things

Just one question: i thaught that leaning A/F ratio lead to high EGT's . You stated the contrary . Could you elaborate ?

Another thing: would this hypothetical ECM change would be, or not, overwrited by a ECU tune ?

I would be cool that some Tuners chime in ! ;o)

BR

Mat

[RupertPupkin]

you might be right, I know its effect on the cylinder temps which is what prompted my theory when OP told me people said they had higher engine temps.

Maybe the cat issue was completely fuel related and EGTs don't matter. I need to confirm that.

I do know unburnt fuel hurts cats.

Hi there !

Very interresting things

Just one question: i thaught that leaning A/F ratio lead to high EGT's . You stated the contrary . Could you elaborate ?

Another thing: would this hypothetical ECM change would be, or not, overwrited by a ECU tune ?

I would be cool that some Tuners chime in ! ;o)

BR

Mat

[Mat@1975]

you might be right, I know its effect on the cylinder temps which is what prompted my theory when OP told me people said they had higher engine temps.

Maybe the cat issue was completely fuel related and EGTs don't matter. I need to confirm that.

I do know unburnt fuel hurts cats.

I think i see: (too rich) A/F ratio lead to low(er) EGT, but resulting unburnt fuel will potentially burn in the cats, leading to damage them. right ?

I really would like the reality of this ECM recall and the impact on Stock and Tuned ECU Maps a,d parameters..

please chime in if someone kwow ! ;o)

BR

Mat

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

I had the dealer replace my thermostat earlier this year and the day I took it back the shifting was all messed up on my DSG, basically car will hold gear and not shift up at WOT, and downshifts are sluggish. They told me they didn't do any software updates, but I have a sneaky suspicion they might have done this messing up my APR stage 2 ecu and tcu flashes. Now I'm waiting to try to reflash the apr software but my local shop doesn't want to do it because they can't get an answer from apr on whether they'll get charged for flashing me again. Such a headache...


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I hope you get your problem fixed, but you may have to wait 2 weeks. ;)

[Daily Driver]

So, if I refuse the update and my cat goes, am I on the hook?

[db12]

So, if I refuse the update and my cat goes, am I on the hook?

Do you have a tune? If not I would say no your not on the hook...and if you do have a tune its not 100% that they would TD1 you for it unless they were looking for it. I thought it did mention something about a deadline...cant recall

[CrownSeven]

I find it interesting the recall letter specifically calls out about having a chip or tune.

[14S4GWM]

I find it interesting the recall letter specifically calls out about having a chip or tune.

It's technically not a recall and a few of the letters i've seen about S4's say that.

[moose_head]

My letter says 'recall' right on the envelope.

I have GIAC stage 2 so I'm trying to figure out how this works. My warranty is up so I don't care about TD1.
-If I did go in for the recall, does the Audi dealer have to do extra work ($) to remove the tune first, like the letter implies? Like, Audi can't just overwrite GIAC's tune? (Of course I could go to my GIAC dealer to go back to stock first.)
-Does putting the GIAC tune back on wipe out the changes in the recall? Does GIAC have to make a new version of their file that includes these manufacturer changes? Sean from APR's post seemed to hint that APR is able to do a "merge" like this on the fly (?)

[XxSullyxX123]

It's technically not a recall and a few of the letters i've seen about S4's say that.

I received my letter today (day before I go in for 25k service). It says recall on the envelope and letter. Although on myAudi.com it doesn't show under recall area, but below it with a different heading.


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[14S4GWM]

My letter says 'recall' right on the envelope.

If you look it up it says "service campaign" not "recall" even thought it says that on the letter.

EDIT

Wonder what the technical difference is though...

[XxSullyxX123]

If you look it up it says "service campaign" not "recall" even thought it says that on the letter.

Right that's what they called it online. "Service campaign" sounds like a proper term for recall hahah


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[14S4GWM]

Right that's what they called it online. "Service campaign" sounds like a proper term for recall hahah


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I believe a recall is federally mandated, not sure.

[ModItNow]

I find it interesting the recall letter specifically calls out about having a chip or tune.

I find it VERY interesting they mention that. Maybe they think this issue is tune related?

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[Jv218]

Anyone from mass do this yet? And would it affect getting a inspection sticker if we choose to ignore it?


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[Oloung1]

Update, I got another issue after getting this recall. My engine oil temp will fluctuate (like goes to 170 and immediately goes back to 168, then goes to 170 again, and it happens all the way to 200), that's something I've never seen before. Car drives normal though.

this is another example of how AOA doesn't actually do any non-accelerated life cycle testing on their post production campaigns.
accelerated cycle testing don't mean shit in the real world and instead of just throwing codes at things and calling it day, they need to spend a few months driving in the fucking cars before releasing this garbage. same with the last steering update campaign before the airbag software campaign.

[AdamD777]

I have the GIAC stage 2 tune plus pulley. I had the service done yesterday. I did not change my tune to stock before going in. My car "feels" slower. Does GIAC need update a tune for our cars again?

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

My letter says 'recall' right on the envelope.

I have GIAC stage 2 so I'm trying to figure out how this works. My warranty is up so I don't care about TD1.
-If I did go in for the recall, does the Audi dealer have to do extra work ($) to remove the tune first, like the letter implies? Like, Audi can't just overwrite GIAC's tune? (Of course I could go to my GIAC dealer to go back to stock first.)
-Does putting the GIAC tune back on wipe out the changes in the recall? Does GIAC have to make a new version of their file that includes these manufacturer changes? Sean from APR's post seemed to hint that APR is able to do a "merge" like this on the fly (?)

They are not going to update your and/or they're going to charge you for the update. Read the letter, it says so. Just flash back to stock and go in for the recall and then go back for the updated file flash from GIAC.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

I have the GIAC stage 2 tune plus pulley. I had the service done yesterday. I did not change my tune to stock before going in. My car "feels" slower. Does GIAC need update a tune for our cars again?

Umm, yeah and now you're TD1 too. Smooth... hell, they might even charge you for the update once they see this. Why did you go in like that?

[Lbsigman]

Excuse my ignorance as I don't have VAGCOM, but would a data log before and after shed any light as to what the update has modified?

[Mat@1975]

Excuse my ignorance as I don't have VAGCOM, but would a data log before and after shed any light as to what the update has modified?

Hello,

Good point.

I really regret not have done this : before / After 24CO logs when i was stock.

It would be really cool if a vag-com guy could do this before he has his ECM revision (and if he intends to do it .. of course)
At least timing / IAT / A/F ratio and EGT

BR

Mat

[XxSullyxX123]

At the dealer now. They're gonna do the update with my oil change.


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[14S4GWM]

I have the GIAC stage 2 tune plus pulley. I had the service done yesterday. I did not change my tune to stock before going in. My car "feels" slower. Does GIAC need update a tune for our cars again?

.....No more warranty work for you my friend

[XxSullyxX123]

Service guy was slightly panicked when I said I had an exhaust. Must've worried I was tuned since they have to plug it in for the update. He said he hasn't heard anything outside of what the notice actually says about what the update does. Of course corporate would keep everyone in the dark if they were changing something lol


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[AudiS4SD]

Yea...I think I'm gonna wait this one out until we get more concrete information...

[q5 dave]

I have the GIAC stage 2 tune plus pulley. I had the service done yesterday. I did not change my tune to stock before going in. My car "feels" slower. Does GIAC need update a tune for our cars again?

they flashed it back to stock.

[XxSullyxX123]

Service done. Car feels just as great as normal. Can't comment on oil temps as I don't ever look at them. But doesn't feel slower.


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[CrownSeven]

Hello,

Good point.

I really regret not have done this : before / After 24CO logs when i was stock.

It would be really cool if a vag-com guy could do this before he has his ECM revision (and if he intends to do it .. of course)
At least timing / IAT / A/F ratio and EGT

BR

Mat

I have a VAG COM , but have never logged. I'll try and do a log tomorrow if I have time and can figure it out.

[14S4GWM]

I have a VAG COM , but have never logged. I'll try and do a log tomorrow if I have time and can figure it out.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...rmance-Logging

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Service done. Car feels just as great as normal. Can't comment on oil temps as I don't ever look at them. But doesn't feel slower.


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Why would it feel slower? You're not tuned, so not much different than when you went in.

[SwankP3RF3ct10n]

Also, what some of you are missing to understand is this. If you're not happy with what Audi did to this tune for whatever reason, then have your tuner simply put on your old file/tune and you'll be back to where you were before. They'd just have to keep track that you're on the newer OEM file so that when you flash back to stock for service, the right one goes back on. You can flash any revision of your OEM tunes that are compatible with your ECUs all you want, they'll all work. The only reason the tuners match up what you had before they flashed you is to ensure you're on the same base code for the unmodified portion of the flash (i.e. the non-tuned portions of the maps, etc.). Also, technically speaking, any tuner can easily (after getting their hands on this new file from Audi) tune it and then flash you with the new revision for both the flashed and stock files and you wouldn't even need to go to Audi, except that Audi would have no record of them doing the update on your car, so while the actual update would be applied, Audi's systems wouldn't have a record of it. Hope this all makes sense to you guys.

For those of you with self-flashing capabilities, this is pretty much a no-brainer and you could easily get the updated file from your tuner and not even have to set foot in the dealer. The thing is, EPL already made some of these adjustments (or so is believed) to the B8.5 code, so you guys be the judge as to what you wanna do, but your best bet is to go back to OEM, go in and get updated by the dealer and then if you want to, go back to your old flash. Just discuss the concern with Tony you may have and do an ECU identify and copy/past that BEFORE you go back to your old tuned file, so you have a copy of the new flash code in case you need to go back to stock flash before your next visit to the dealer. You could do that, get them to upload you the new revision stock onto your account, but keep your old tuned one that you run on the car. Like I said before, while tuners don't really make a habit of doing this, it can be done and it'll work just fine.

[XxSullyxX123]

Why would it feel slower? You're not tuned, so not much different than when you went in.

Obviously what the dealer said they were doing wouldn't change anything. But Bc a few posts earlier someone gave a whole Scenario about the oil temp rise (alluding to maybe Audi is doing more than they say they are to not only get rid of a CEL issue but also a melted cat issue with fueling) and how that might happen which could lead to less Power without a timing offset.

That's why I mentioned it feels the same.


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