Problem adjusting timing 3.0 V6

[JJ.]

Hello guys,

I recently did the timing belt of our 3.0 v6.
All went well I thought, untill the misfires showed up.
I checked the engine timing and it's off by quite a bit.
See picture:



When I did the timing belt, I couldnt get the camshaft locking tools to get fully seated on the cams.
So I thought that must have been the problem with the timing.
I just tore everything open again, locked the crank, tried to get the camshaft locking tools in place as good as possible and loosend the camshaft sprockets.

I thought that I could move the cams so I could get the locking tools to engage fully.
No luck, cant get the cams the move..

I'm out of ideas, any help would be much appreciated!

Here are some photo's of the not fully seated cam locking tools.

Passenger side:





Drivers side:







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[SJorge3442]

Hmm. Those tools should certainly slip down further. Are you sure youre not 180 degrees off? Try spinning the crank one more time and see how the tools line up.

Once those tools are fully seated, then you can break the cam sprockets looks, tighten the belt properly, and retighten the cam bolts. I've read that some of the cheaper cam tools dont fit right and can cause issues. The set I have fit fully down on the cams FWIW

[themadscientist]

Yeah, that's not even close. Remove the belt, and turn/wiggle the cams with a large wrench so you can seat the tool completely.

[JJ.]

Hmm. Those tools should certainly slip down further. Are you sure youre not 180 degrees off? Try spinning the crank one more time and see how the tools line up.

Once those tools are fully seated, then you can break the cam sprockets looks, tighten the belt properly, and retighten the cam bolts. I've read that some of the cheaper cam tools dont fit right and can cause issues. The set I have fit fully down on the cams FWIW

I'm almost a 100% certain that you can't fit the cam lock tools when it's a 180 degrees off, that's what I experienced the first time I changed the belt..
I must admit that this one was one of the cheaper tool kits available on ebay.

Now that I have no tension on the timingbelt, the camshaft sprocket bolts loosend and the crank locked down, would it be a problem I removed the cam lock tools? Or would they spin because of the lifter pressure on the lobes?

What I was thinking is that maybe I can now remove the lock tools and turn the cams a bit with a wrench or something, but I would need the locking tools removed because thats the only part on the cam to have grip on.

[JJ.]

Yeah, that's not even close. Remove the belt, and turn/wiggle the cams with a large wrench so you can seat the tool completely.

How do I turn/wiggle the cams with the locking tools in place? There's no place on the cams to get some good grip.
Or can I remove the tools without having the risk of the cams spinning because of the lifter pressure on the lobes of the cams? I don't know if that is even making any sense at all?

[crazyquik22023]

You should have left the timing belt connected and then "wiggle" the cams by slightly turning the crank bolt. And as said above, are you sure you aren't 180deg off? The crank timing mark will obviously still line up when 180 off.

[JJ.]

You should have left the timing belt connected and then "wiggle" the cams by slightly turning the crank bolt. And as said above, are you sure you aren't 180deg off? The crank timing mark will obviously still line up when 180 off.

I will check the crankshaft position tonight, just to make sure.
I should probably have ''wiggled'' with the cam sprockets still tightened and without the crankshaft locking tool in place?

I'm probably missing something, thanks for all the replies so far, really appreciate it!

[SJorge3442]

My 3.0 rolled backwards in gear when the motor was off and it caused all sorts of issues with timing. To fix it the timing, just leave the car sprocket bolts tightened and remove the cam tools. The cams will flip over real fast. Then get a buddy to turn the sprockets by hand (real hard, you fighting the valve springs) and then slide the can tools down. That's how I fixed my timing when it was off. Even with the engine at tdc, letting the cams flip over shouldn't do any damage to the valves.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[john_gonzo]

I'm almost a 100% certain that you can't fit the cam lock tools when it's a 180 degrees off...

You're right. SJorge or imnuts confirmed that in another thread somewhere here. The flats on the camshaft are slightly off parallel. Sanity check: The cams are correctly positioned when the passenger side back cylinder exhaust and intake lobes point up at similar angles, like this --> / \ This ensures the crank is not 180 degrees off. (Think about the 4-cycle engine. If the crank was 180 degrees off, that cylinder would just be completing the exhaust stroke and about to start the intake stroke. The exhaust valves would just be closing and the intake valves just opening.)

I should probably have ''wiggled'' with the cam sprockets still tightened and without the crankshaft locking tool in place?

Yes, this is the standard procedure. Then the crank lock pin is installed.

Also note the four camshaft pulley bolts are torque-to-yield. That means they should be replaced after they have been loosened.

Regarding your original point about the timing being off, did you correctly preadjust both exhaust pulleys with tool T40028 before tightening the bolts? See second blurb in this post: Crank-Seal-Replacement_3-0L-AVK-Oil-Leak-Madness_Post #14

[customa4]

Here's the manual for a reference. Click

[JJ.]

Thanks all so much for your help!
I think I solved it, I'll write down what I did tomorrow. Running out of time to wrench and post now sadly.
Thanks again!


-Cactus green Audi S4 B5 on air
• Instagram: jj_dw
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[JJ.]

Yesterday evening, after work I had an hour of time to fix my problem.

Started with these things:

1- Released the hydraulic tensioner again to tension the timing belt
2- Fastened the cam sprocket bolts
3- re-attached the lower timing belt cover
4- installed the crank dampener pulley
5- removed the crank lock tool
6- checked TDC and camshaft lobe positions

This is when I realized I indeed made one stupid mistake, I was 180 degrees off and the lobes were pointing down instead of up like in these pictures:





7- removed camshaft locking tools
8- rotated the crankshaft until the engine was in the right position
9- installed camshaft locking tools again, engaging way way better than before
10- wiggled the crankshaft untill all camshaft locking tools fit snug

At this point all camshafts were perfectly locked down by the cam locking tool, except one.
The passenger exhaust camshaft was off and not fully engaged by the locking tool, first I thought this made sense since the VAGCOM reading said one camshaft position was 19 degrees off.
But this was a BANK 2 camshaft according to VAGCOM and if I'm not mistaken this is the drivers side cylinder head right?

Passenger side:





Driver side:





Anyway, this was a problem, the camshaft should be correctly locked down by the locking tool so went on with my procedure:

11- removed crankshaft dampener and lower timing belt cover again
12- loosend the camshaft sprocket bolts
13- removed tension of the timing belt by locking down the hydraulic damper
14- partly removed timing belt
15- bolted down the camshaft sprocket bolt of the passenger side exhaust camshaft until the camshaft was now fully engaged by the cam locking tool as well.

I think succes
Engaged like it should:



One thing I can't explain is why the VAGCOM reading said the camshaft position of bank 2 was of while the exhaust camshaft of passenger side was off.

Unless this is untrue:

Bank1 = passenger side
Bank2 = drivers side

[JJ.]

Can anyone confirm my last question about what VAGCOM told me and what I visually found?
It would be much appreciated :)


-Cactus green Audi S4 B5 on air
• Instagram: jj_dw
• Instagram: jjwphotoworks