How much better is a 6 speed?

[B6_A4_Kid]

Well guys, the tiptronic is litterally on its last life, every day I drive it I am worried its going to leave me stranded. I am really wanting to swap in a manual, but dang 01Es sure cost a pretty penny, and for me being unemployed and still in high school, I dont want to blow all my money on that. I can get a 5 speed for sooooo much cheaper, and I just want to know pros and cons, I understand RPMs will be higher when cruising at 80, but I eventually want 18s so that should help that. Bottom line, for the guys out there with 5 speed B6s, how is it to daily? Should I really just hold out and get a 6? I am basically wanting to get the whole car swapped over to a manual, then in a year when I finally graduate and am employed again, I could just drop the 5 speed and slap in a 6.

[JDillon15]

Well guys, the tiptronic is litterally on its last life, every day I drive it I am worried its going to leave me stranded. I am really wanting to swap in a manual, but dang 01Es sure cost a pretty penny, and for me being unemployed and still in high school, I dont want to blow all my money on that. I can get a 5 speed for sooooo much cheaper, and I just want to know pros and cons, I understand RPMs will be higher when cruising at 80, but I eventually want 18s so that should help that. Bottom line, for the guys out there with 5 speed B6s, how is it to daily? Should I really just hold out and get a 6? I am basically wanting to get the whole car swapped over to a manual, then in a year when I finally graduate and am employed again, I could just drop the 5 speed and slap in a 6.

Do you have the tools, wallet, and knowledge to do this swap? Or just like the idea? And are your parents (I assume you still live at home) okay with this option? Just a reality check before we go down this rabbit hole.

[B6_A4_Kid]

Yes, I have everything covered, and my own garage. Also have a secondary daily while the B6 is down.

[B6_A4_Kid]

Do you have the tools, wallet, and knowledge to do this swap? Or just like the idea? And are your parents (I assume you still live at home) okay with this option? Just a reality check before we go down this rabbit hole.

Also, this thread really isnt about the swap. More a compare/contrast about 5 and 6 speed trannies.

[Fast4esT]

I have a BT 02 avant with a 5 speed manual, and I fee that there is not enough gear for the power, hits redline too fast. Also driving down the highway at 80 and pushing 4K gets old when you have loud exhaust.
Driving wise, the 5 speed feels and shifts fine, have stage 4 south bend clutch
Daily and city the 5 is fine

I've read that the 2.8 manual 5 speed from the b5 a4 has better gearing and would prolly be a great option for me.

If your not building big power I'd just get a 5 speed, these motors are engineered to be driven at high rpm:)

[19jdog]

I did the tip to 6 speed swap. Took 3 weeks to complete. I did it all my self. I had to pull the motor cause I couldn't get the oem downpipes off on my 3.0. Love it, love it even in traffic. I bought my kit from wolf salvage on ebay. The 6 speed came from a 06 S4. $2500 shipped.

DO IT!!!!

[B6_A4_Kid]

I have a BT 02 avant with a 5 speed manual, and I fee that there is not enough gear for the power, hits redline too fast. Also driving down the highway at 80 and pushing 4K gets old when you have loud exhaust.
Driving wise, the 5 speed feels and shifts fine, have stage 4 south bend clutch
Daily and city the 5 is fine

I've read that the 2.8 manual 5 speed from the b5 a4 has better gearing and would prolly be a great option for me.

If your not building big power I'd just get a 5 speed, these motors are engineered to be driven at high rpm:)

Funny you should mention that tranny. My local pick and pull has one of these with low miles for an excellent price. What other parts will I need?

[rollerton]

You're doing twice as much work if you swap to manual 5 speed then later want a 6 speed. That's ridiculous and more work and more money.

From tiptronic to 6 speed is awesome in every way and you will never regret it. It's not terribly difficult, you can do it with a couple jacks on stands. There's nothing really technical about it. I advise people to approach it like a few small projects. Do the pedals and hydraulics one weekend, then maybe run the couple of wires you need to, and hook up the clutch switches.
Then get all your stuff ready and swap the trans last, maybe over a weekend. That way when you are mostly done with the HARD (trans) part you're all the way done. 5 speed vs 6 speed wont change your life. You end up with roughly the same rpm vs road speed, and honestly the tip will do roughly the same road speed vs rpm as the 6 speed (I can tell you this because I sold a 6 speed (01e) V8 S6 and bought a 1.8 tip USP avant the same day, and they held EXACTLY the same rpm @ 80mph on the freeway). 6 speed has closer ratios.
I'd say don't bother unless you love the car and will keep it for several years. The car will be more solid, you have more control, you feel like the car responds better. But alot of it is in your head. I hate the tiptronic usually, I have a swap ready for my new S6..but I'm realistic about it. You're not going to to build a miraculous hot rod by swapping to manual. You WILL love it. But it's mostly feelings. It's the same car.

[B6_A4_Kid]

I really do love my car, me and my brother both have b6s. And they bring us together and we always wrench together, I have access to lifts and all the tools I could ever need at my ASE classes. I know I really should get a 6 speed, but I just wanted to save money. Can someone throw down a whole parts list? I know some of the things I need, but I want to make sure my information is correct.

[Fast4esT]

Shifter
Linkage
Pedals
Clutch
Flywheel
Transmission
Front axles
Center driveshaft
Possibly rear diff/rear axles
Sure I'm missing something

Friend here in Michigan just scored everything he needs to do a swap on his tip b7 2.0 from an 07 2.0 6 speed for 750 at a loca savage

If you start sourcing parts you can do a 6 swap for cheap

[Kevin C]

I upgraded on my 2003 from a 5 to a six speed. I went with the 02X (GJW code) from 2004-2005 1.8t A4. My take is it has the best ratios for a 1.8 A4. Sixth is taller than the five speeds , not not so tall that puts the motor out of its powerband. It also has a slightly lower first.

It also uses a 4.11 rear axle ratio ( you should already have that with your TIP). The drive shaft is the same as the tip.... You will need front axles.

Five Speed: RPM @ 65 MPH =3080
02X , GJW Six Speed: RPM @ 65 MPH = 2500
02X, GVE Six speed: RPM @ 65 MPH= 2280



http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...six-speed-swap

What did I get? A little better pull in first, and a nicer cruise RPM. That car was fine with the five speed, but it's nicer with the six. O2X , GJW would be my recommendation.

[Charles.waite]

GJW for sure. The GVE is for the 2.0t which has more torque. the 1.8t would REALLY struggle at low RPMS with that tranny.

Also 6-speed is 120% worth it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. Just get an 02x (late b6-b7) rather than an 01E. They're pretty damn cheap these days.

[EuroEnduro]

+1 of on the 02x. Swapped one into my 03 b6 2+ avant, and it is worlds better than the 5 speed! I was lucky because I had a second car to take everything out of, but I needed (going from 5-->6 speed): trans, shift linkage (I just swapped shift boxes), rear diff, and drive shaft. All in all, the swap wasn't hard, but I have done transmissions before.

Another note, if you look at ratios, the 6sp 5th gear is actually taller than the 5sp 5th gear. I don't know what Audi was thinking with this trans, its literally begging for another gear when you're cruising at 70-80mph

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I've read that the 2.8 manual 5 speed from the b5 a4 has better gearing and would prolly be a great option for me.

That is precisely the route I went. Mind you, it was a 5-speed for 5-speed swap, so I was able to swap the B6 tail housing from my original gearbox onto the donor which came from a 2.8 B5. It's worked out great for me. I have no regrets about not going for the 6-speed swap which would have been much more consuming of time and money.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

I would venture to say the the 6 speed is 1/6 (or 16.6666666667%) better than the 5 speed. I may be exaggerating a bit but.... take it for what its worth.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I would venture to say the the 6 speed is 1/6 (or 16.6666666667%) better than the 5 speed.

Please define "better".

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Please define "better".

comparative of good and well

improve on or surpass (an existing or previous level or achievement)

[Charles.waite]

It's definitely 1 greater. That is a mathematical fact.

[ShogunR32]

Kind of wish I kept my sedan now. Ive been really wanting to swap the tip out for a 6 speed in the avant.

[Mr.Avant]

Speaking of ratios, here's a post I just snapped a screen shot of awhile ago. Good info, the 2.8 and TDI trans are not suited as well for the 1.8t.



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[Airflite40]

Definitely go with the GJW (02X) trans from 04-05 cars. Check car-part.com, looks like a breaker near you, Russ' European Only, has 2 GJW trans for sale.

I did the swap, but I started with a 5 speed manual trans and the difference is huge. The GJW shifts smoother, you won't regret it.

[AudiA4_20T]

Good info, the 2.8 and TDI trans are not suited as well for the 1.8t.

Speak for yourself. I've had both and they're both great for different things. The OP can probably get the whole 5 speed swap at a junkyard for pennies while a 6 speed will cost significantly more. I'd do a 2.8 5 speed and call it a day.

[Steve Bassen]

Definitely go with the GJW (02X) trans from 04-05 cars. Check car-part.com, looks like a breaker near you, Russ' European Only, has 2 GJW trans for sale.

I did the swap, but I started with a 5 speed manual trans and the difference is huge. The GJW shifts smoother, you won't regret it.

The 02X is great...mine had 155k when I pulled it and it still shifted like butter. I'm going to miss it vs the tractor like shifting the 01E has.

[Kevin C]

I paid $540 for my 02X (with 90,000 miles on it), sold my five speed for $300 (with 140,000 miles). If he can source a six speed within $250 of a five speed, the total cost will be close since he can use his existing drive shaft and rear diff.

The five speeds typical use a 3.89 rear diff. Less to swap going from an auto to a 02X, GJW since your rear diff is already a 4.11. With six speed you keep your existing rear diff and driveshaft. The five speed? Not only do you get one less gear ,you also need to swap more parts.


Also, the six speed is more better :)

[diagnosticator]

Why do you think the tip is ready to break down?

[B6_A4_Kid]

Why do you think the tip is ready to break down?

Takes forever to go into reverse and really doesn't want to shift into third. Also slips if i sit with it in drive for too long.

[b6Hate4]

It's definitely 1 greater. That is a mathematical fact.

6-1= 5. Yup, the math checks out.

[B6_A4_Kid]

See this is what I mean, obviously I would want to go 6 speed because it's better. But the 5 speed is just so much cheaper! I can't decide!


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[old guy]

See this is what I mean, obviously I would want to go 6 speed because it's better. But the 5 speed is just so much cheaper! I can't decide!

For what it's worth I'm perfectly happy with my 5-speed. If I could wave a magic wand and convert it to a 6-speed I would but going through a swap (even if the parts were provided for free) to me just isn't worth the effort. I'm running a Borla exhaust and it really doesn't have any drone on the highway. Plus I'm already half deaf so I may not be able to hear it even it it was droning ;-)

I typically cruise in the 75→80 mph range and what I love about the 5-speed is that it puts the F21L right in the sweet spot. If I want to scoot all I have to do is press down on the gas pedal. Instant torque. No downshifting necessary. I'm constantly amazed at how strong it can pull from that speed range. With a 6-speed I would have to drop down a gear to get the same response. Guess I'm just a little lazy in my old age......

[B6_A4_Kid]

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[B6_A4_Kid]

For what it's worth I'm perfectly happy with my 5-speed. If I could wave a magic wand and convert it to a 6-speed I would but going through a swap (even if the parts were provided for free) to me just isn't worth the effort. I'm running a Borla exhaust and it really doesn't have any drone on the highway. Plus I'm already half deaf so I may not be able to hear it even it it was droning ;-)

I typically cruise in the 75→80 mph range and what I love about the 5-speed is that it puts the F21L right in the sweet spot. If I want to scoot all I have to do is press down on the gas pedal. Instant torque. No downshifting necessary. I'm constantly amazed at how strong it can pull from that speed range. With a 6-speed I would have to drop down a gear to get the same response. Guess I'm just a little lazy in my old age......

Do you have 17s on it? How much would 18s help do you think?



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[old guy]

Do you have 17s on it? How much would 18s help do you think?

I have 18" RS6 wheels. The wheel diameter won't make any difference as long as you use the proper size tire. The 235/45/17 and 235/40/18 have the same rolling diameter so it won't change the effective final drive ratios.

The larger diameter wheel will change the moment of inertia and cause a slight reduction in response and gas mileage. Nothing significant but it's there. Clicky click®

[MikTip]

1,000,000 time better!

[All_Euro]

Had a 5-spd VW - sold it and bought a 6-spd GLI... huge plus in my world - would never go back. For others, though, fewer gears suit their needs/tastes better.

Ideally, you would just find one of each to drive - that should solve this riddle for you.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

I had a 10 speed bicycle, not sure its comparable

[Kevin C]

Speaking of ratios, here's a post I just snapped a screen shot of awhile ago. Good info, the 2.8 and TDI trans are not suited as well for the 1.8t.



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FYI, the ratio for the 1.8t B6 six speed is wrong. The final drive is 4.11 and sixth is .685, the rest of the numbers look off as well.

Another thing I like with the 02X is it has a much (edit) better synchros. A first gear down shift is much easier (triple cone). On my five speed it was pretty much stop the car to get into first. Also the 02X is stronger than the five speed. SSP_325 is a good read, Start at page 53.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...33178914,d.cGc

[Charles.waite]

FYI, the ratio for the 1.8t B6 six speed is wrong. The final drive is 4.11 and sixth is .685, the rest of the numbers look off as well.

Another thing I like with the 02X is it has a much synchros. A first gear down shift is much easier (triple cone). On my five speed it was pretty much stop the car to get into first and the 02X is stronger than the five speed. SSP_325 is a good read, Start at page 53.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...33178914,d.cGc

You're a man after my own heart, Kevin! I love nerding out reading those SElf Study guides!

[MikTip]

A maximum possible gear spread in the 7.5 range
together with the 6th gear opens up a wide range of
possible uses. For example, for a sporty model with
short gearshifts for maximum acceleration or for
the very economic model, with a "long" 6th gear for
fuel economy without loosing out too much on
driving dynamics.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

A maximum possible gear spread in the 7.5 range
together with the 6th gear opens up a wide range of
possible uses. For example, for a sporty model with
short gearshifts for maximum acceleration or for
the very economic model, with a "long" 6th gear for
fuel economy without loosing out too much on
driving dynamics.

I can't disagree with what you've written. That said, from a practical matter (i.e. time & money), the swap to the 2.8 5-speed was a much better choice for me. I got the transmission for $100 at the U-Pull-It and sold my old one for $200 (after swapping the B5 tail to my old B6 gearbox). At the time (2 years ago), I was getting quotes of $3000+ for the 6-speed and required stuff (driveshaft, rear-end, etc).

Which brings up an important point... What rear-end is in the Tiptronic car being discuss here? That could sway the argument.

[ADCS]

Of course 6 is better, particularly what Miktip pointed out. Ask yourself how many gears pretty much every super/hyper car has with their true manual trans option....

And I picked up a 6speed 02X with slave cyl, driveshaft and matching rear diff for $150cdn at a u-pull it yard. So a little over $100usd and I bet you have lower part prices in the good ol' USA. If you can't find a B6, the 6speed 01E from a B5 S4 or C5 A6 also works but requires some more fiddling with axles.