Anyone ever use DiamondShield?

[ThunderDent]

Local detail shop uses it. They charge $150 for paint correction/clay bar/diamond shield sealant.
1 year warranty.



There are no shops near me who do Opticoat, CQuartz, etc.

Anyone ever use this? Thoughts?

I don't want wax, I want a sealant.

[VroomVroom]

Two concerns. First, that sounds REALLY cheap for a correction detail plus any sealant. FWIW, that's about what I charge for a one-step corrective effort, and that doesn't include wash or decon (clay, iron remover), and certainly not any protective layer. Not to sound like a jerk, but I would be VERY wary of any detail shop that charges so little.

Second, the 'consumer' grade products from Optimum and CarPro (and now Wolfgang and others) are really terrific. Even if you don't want to apply the coating yourself, any professional detailer will either sell & apply, or just charge for their time to apply the product you buy.

[EDIT]
Probably worth clarifying semantics. Any true paint detail involves four steps:

Wash. Obvious, but removes surface dirt and grime)

Decontamination. Removal of bonded contaminants via mechanical (clay bar, clay towel) and chemical (iron removers) efforts. You want a clay treatment at a minimum, to remove contamination on the surface. A chemical treatment will remove embedded contaminants that have bonded deeper within the surface (i.e. iron on paint and wheels from brake dust, etc.).

Correction. Leveling of the finish to remove marring, swirling, etching, and scratches. This can be mild or extreme, obviously depending on the paint condition. This is where the experience, knowledge, and learned skill comes in - essentially, why a good detail costs a lot more than a cheap one. Leveling, by definition, involves removal of paint - clear coat in the case of our vehicles. A good detailer knows the steps, tools, and products required to remove only the minimum amount of paint necessary to make the finish look its best. A bad detailer, at best, won't remove enough or will not be consistent. At worst, he'll hack your finish, remove too much, and often times leave behind micromarring and other damage.

Protection. (Actually, also preparation for protection - removing oils and fillers from the compounds and polishes used to correct the finish.) Once prepped, you have three options here:

- Wax. Old school, but even today, nothing looks quite as good as paint after receiving a coat of a fine carnauba. Especially dark colors. Waxes offer minimal protection, both in terms of the amount of damage and the length of time before the protective qualities diminish. But boy, it looks good. Especially on dark colors. :)

- Sealant. Sealants use polymers that form a bond with the paint. Here you get quite a bit more protection, sometimes at a small cost of gloss or "wetness" that you expect from a wax. Sealants can be a bit more cumbersome to apply, requiring set up time and curing time after application to ensure maximum protection. Aside from offering more protection than a wax, sealants look really good on light colors and metallic & pearl finishes because of the "pop" they add. (You can top a sealant with a wax to get the best of both worlds...just follow the directions to ensure curing time requirements.)

- Ceramic coating. The new crown jewel. Maximum protection and great looks. The quality products on the market will offer two-ish years of great protection, awesome looks, and no repeat maintenance. The "pro" level products offer a bit more gloss and certainly more time - often five years or longer - of protection and ease of maintenance. Honestly, as easy as the "consumer" products are to apply, there's no real reason to consider a wax or sealant these days.

I hope that helps a bit. Detailing has its own language, and unfortunately there are a lot of folks out there who abuse the craft. Couple that with folks who want a good deal, and you end up with confusion and crappy results. I've been doing this for a bit over 15 years now, and easily half of my clients come to me to fix problems created by the cheap guy.

[ThunderDent]

That's awesome information. Really appreciated.

I want a professional high-quality job done. And I'm pretty set on the ceramic coating. I'll have to ask and see if they'll do one of the customer grade coatings. If so, I'll pick up an Opticoat and have them do that, if they can. It's hard to find a good (quality) detailer.
I don't want just anyone doing paint correction.

I really appreciate the write up.

[Drichardson72]

Thanks VroomVroom. Great write up. Much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThunderDent]

I guess my biggest issue is finding a trusted detailer that won't fuck up the paint correction, and has the know how to do ceramic coating install without screwing it up. I don't mind to pay, but doesn't seem like anyone near me does any of the coatings out there, with the exception of Opticoat, which there is an installer near my brother/parents, so easy to drop off and leave car there.

Everyone around here just does sealants like the one above.

I just don't want it screwed up.

And I've heard Opticoat is strong, but not very glossy/no depth and doesn't last as long.

[freesole]

I recently had ceramic pro installed and love how the car looks. The shine of the flakes in the pearl paint really show through. It hasn't rained since it was installed though so I can't say how well it works. It has been a week and there is definitely a thin layer of dust/dirt on the car as it is my daily driver but the sheen is still very apparent. The flakes are very obvious.

Basically, what I'm saying is that it is totally worth it. But I agree that you should find a reputable and capable installer. There is some maintenance that can be expected and you should be able to come back to them anytime you need it.

[VroomVroom]

And I've heard Opticoat is strong, but not very glossy/no depth and doesn't last as long.

This is subjective, but IME/IMO....totally false. Opticoat Pro makes for a gorgeous finish - pick your buzz words, glossy, reflective, wet, deep.... And if not the most durable coating on the market, it's way, way way up there. I would say CQuartz Finest is a better choice on dark colors, IF appearance is your biggest goal. That stuff does look delicious. However, there are downsides. It requires different products for wheels and trim, and it is more cumbersome and time consuming to apply. Both of these make it more expensive. Durability....well, that depends on so many variables. Do you park outside, are you good about maintenance washes, do you get a lot of environmental fallout, do you park under trees....etc. We're really picking nits here. I tend to recommend Optimum for everyone who daily drives their vehicles, and CQuartz for the show car guys and folks who treasure the appearance of their vehicles more than any other factor.

The bottom line, though, is the work that's done prior to applying the coating. This is true of any detail effort, and if it helps, the analogy I use is painting or treating a deck. If you take the time and exert the effort to clean, sand (compound and polish), and prep....the last step is really anticlimactic. My customers watch me apply a coating, and they ask..."That's it? Seriously?" Yes - because the five hours leading up to it was the hard work. This is why Opticoat Pro and CQuartz Finest installers have to be certified - you're paying for the expertise prior to the coating, plus a bit extra to deal with a product that is more tempermental than the stuff the rest of us can buy.

It can be tough finding a certified dealer - heck, in the entire SF bay area, there's only one shop that does both Optimum and CarPro. Speaking for the guys like me - the part-timers who don't qualify for the 'Pro' certifications, word of mouth should hopefully point you to a fine detailer who can give you quality results. I apply Optimum Gloss Coat, and I can tell you by direct experience that a vehicle with two coats (applied over a few days) will look darn near as sexy as a vehicle that's seen a 'Pro' installation. Many of my peers say the same about the CarPro line. Aside from offering fine results, we also end up being about $500-700 less expensive. Hopefully asking around will put you in touch with a fine detailer - who do your service technicians recommend, for example?

[ThunderDent]

I've got an email in to the shop who is listed as installer for Opticoat.

The 2 step Opticoat pro plus looks promising.

[VroomVroom]

It's amazing. Here's a link to further whet your appetite:

http://www.bayareadetails.com/AudiQ5.html

http://www.bayareadetails.com/opticoat.html

These guys do terrific work, and since they also apply CarPro and GTechniq, they're unbiased when it comes to advice.

[ThunderDent]

Great info. Thanks!

[bomb39]

It's amazing. Here's a link to further whet your appetite:

http://www.bayareadetails.com/AudiQ5.html

http://www.bayareadetails.com/opticoat.html

These guys do terrific work, and since they also apply CarPro and GTechniq, they're unbiased when it comes to advice.

1. Will you PM me what you charge for a detail?
2. If you do seal, can you still do a wax on top? ie Adam's Buttery Wax

[ThunderDent]

Got a quote of:

$799 for Opticoat Pro
Or
$1199 for Opticoat +

And interior will be $599 for clean, dry, Optiguard

All with full warranty.

He'll do wheels & Windows for free with full treatment
And if I do interior & exterior he'll knock off $200.

All of that comes with clay/decontamination, compound/polish, wipe down prior to Opticoat layers.

Says there is a spray on opti-seal layer that goes on last before the drive home.
And he will need it overnight to cure.

Sounds like a decent deal to me, so I'm in!
He's booked up 3 weeks out so I guess that's a good thing.
It's a big indoor shop. Looks brand new.

[riceboy22]

FWIW on the Opti-Guard, I inquired about this with my detailer (he does both CQuartz and Opti-Coat), and he told me he didn't think it was worth doing. I obviously haven't done it myself so can't comment from personal experience, but I trust him pretty implicitly when it comes to this stuff.

[VroomVroom]

Got a quote of:

$799 for Opticoat Pro
Or
$1199 for Opticoat +

And interior will be $599 for clean, dry, Optiguard

All with full warranty.

He'll do wheels & Windows for free with full treatment
And if I do interior & exterior he'll knock off $200.

All of that comes with clay/decontamination, compound/polish, wipe down prior to Opticoat layers.

Says there is a spray on opti-seal layer that goes on last before the drive home.
And he will need it overnight to cure.

Sounds like a decent deal to me, so I'm in!
He's booked up 3 weeks out so I guess that's a good thing.
It's a big indoor shop. Looks brand new.

IF you've seen his work - ideally in bright sunlight - and are pleased, jump on this. It's a GREAT deal for you. I won't go into the tssk tssk stuff, other than to say if other certified dealers knew about this pricing, they might grumble. You'd be looking at well over $2k for this from really fine detailers in my neck of the woods, as well as the DFW and greater Atlanta areas. Opti-Seal is an awesome product, and it'll repel water and grime while the coating fully cures. It's definitely a nice final touch, and I'd recommend buying the product for yourself. You'll love the added bit of pop it offers right before a photo shoot or cars & coffee gathering, and it really is fun to watch how rain & water just bead up and run off the finish. Hydrophobic indeed.

1. Will you PM me what you charge for a detail?
2. If you do seal, can you still do a wax on top? ie Adam's Buttery Wax

Sure. No PM necessary...I don't keep any secrets. :) I charge $75/hr, which applies whether I'm vacuuming your floor mats or polishing your paint. This means I mostly do exterior details, for obvious reasons. :) On most cars Q5-sized and smaller, a wash > thorough decon > 2-step polish > prep > coating effort will take around eight hours. Honestly, a Q5 is a bad example, because there's very little roof to do. I can tell you that my car took me right at six hours, but I only did a 1-step polish. My hourly rate includes all my supplies except for expensive waxes and ceramic coatings. I usually have my clients buy the coating, or if booked ahead of time, I'll buy it and tack on the cost (no markup). BTW, 20cc of coating will do the entire painted finish, all trim, and all four wheels, with at least 5cc left over.

So....to finally answer your question.... a detail mirroring the one I did on my own Q would go for $500, and you'd have 1/3 of a syringe full of coating to take home with you. Probably another $100-ish for a second polishing step if required, but I never quote on that until after establishing expectations and inspecting the finish. (Too many guys with 10-year-old Corvettes that have seen a thousand drive-thru washes often expect miracles...learned that lesson early on.)

Topping a sealant with a wax has become old-school now that coatings are around, but it really does yield nice results. You just need to follow the directions on the sealant to make sure there's been enough curing time before you apply the wax. (More semantics: setup time = the time between applying the sealant and removing it; curing time = the time between removing it and washing, applying a second coat, applying a wax, etc.) On most sealants, Blackfire Wet Diamond, for example, that time will be 24 hours. (Don't forget the 45-60 minute setup time, all out of direct sunlight.) This can certainly make a detail effort last a while. Buttery wax is great - it gives a nice soft glow, and is reasonably durable. By all means, use what works for you and what you like. Detailing really is 90% process and 10% product. That said, the next time you're in the market, take a stab at one of the coatings on the market. I bought my last batches of GlossCoat when my favorite vendor (detailedimage.com) had a 25% off sale. Catch the same deal, and for less than $55 you've got a product that will look like a wax, but will last for roughly two years...wheels included. Take five minutes (seriously!) to apply some Opti-Seal once every coupla' months, and your machine will always look brand new. Anyway...

FWIW on the Opti-Guard, I inquired about this with my detailer (he does both CQuartz and Opti-Coat), and he told me he didn't think it was worth doing. I obviously haven't done it myself so can't comment from personal experience, but I trust him pretty implicitly when it comes to this stuff.

Echo. For folks with young kids or slobbery animals, this is worth considering. Otherwise, it's really not necessary. Honestly, same applies to the glass coating. It's really cool - at first - and you'll love it if you see a lot of rain, but it's not very durable. Ask your detailer to apply some extra good stuff to the wheels instead, and spend the next five years laughing as you rinse/hose off brake dust.

[Mops@Nemesis]

Damn Jerry, you're the real deal. The no BS real deal. I'd like to sit down with you one day. I'm pretty rusty. I mean I'm semi-pretty, and my name is Ben... you get it :)

[riceboy22]

Ask your detailer to apply some extra good stuff to the wheels instead, and spend the next five years laughing as you rinse/hose off brake dust.

Echo back on the wheel coating. The exact name of the product I had applied escapes me, but I believe it was a CQuartz product especially for wheels and higher temperature applications. I can't quite just hose off brake dust but it's pretty darn close to being able to do that.

And Jerry, I think Mops just asked you out. If you play your cards right maybe those double-tinted CI-Rs can be yours!

Edit: CQuartz DLux is what he applied to my wheels.

[ThunderDent]

He's doing my wheels and calipers on Opticoat.



Will be well worth the money for the ease of cleaning.

Jerry, thank you for all your insight into this. Great info and helpful to a lot of us.

[Mops@Nemesis]

And Jerry, I think Mops just asked you out. If you play your cards right maybe those double-tinted CI-Rs can be yours!

I've already sent him some bottomless pics via PM ;)

What are you wearing today, Jerry? Or aren't you wearing...

[buggravy]

I've already sent him some bottomless pics via PM ;)

The double tinted would look so, so rad on a white Q.

[VroomVroom]

And Jerry, I think Mops just asked you out. If you play your cards right maybe those double-tinted CI-Rs can be yours!

Edit: CQuartz DLux is what he applied to my wheels.

A few beers in, I excuse myself and dim the lights....it all feels good in the dark, right?

I am not proud when the letters B, B, and S are muttered.

He's doing my wheels and calipers on Opticoat.
Will be well worth the money for the ease of cleaning.

Jerry, thank you for all your insight into this. Great info and helpful to a lot of us.

Totally my pleasure. I hope my diarrhea-of-the-keyboard isn't overbearing and that I can offer a bit of value. You've got such a first-class machine there, and I want to see you smile. And I'll tell you....you'll be ecstatic! That gorgeous blue with Opti Pro + .... make sure you have something to lean on when you see it.

I've already sent him some bottomless pics via PM ;)

What are you wearing today, Jerry? Or aren't you wearing...

Pants: off. You had me at bottomless. Seriously, thanks for the kind words, and backatya. I love seeing good folks help good folks. And those wheels are talking to me during the day now too, not just at night.

[alpineaudi]

Two concerns. First, that sounds REALLY cheap for a correction detail plus any sealant. FWIW, that's about what I charge for a one-step corrective effort, and that doesn't include wash or decon (clay, iron remover), and certainly not any protective layer. Not to sound like a jerk, but I would be VERY wary of any detail shop that charges so little.

Second, the 'consumer' grade products from Optimum and CarPro (and now Wolfgang and others) are really terrific. Even if you don't want to apply the coating yourself, any professional detailer will either sell & apply, or just charge for their time to apply the product you buy.

[EDIT]
Probably worth clarifying semantics. Any true paint detail involves four steps:

Wash. Obvious, but removes surface dirt and grime)

Decontamination. Removal of bonded contaminants via mechanical (clay bar, clay towel) and chemical (iron removers) efforts. You want a clay treatment at a minimum, to remove contamination on the surface. A chemical treatment will remove embedded contaminants that have bonded deeper within the surface (i.e. iron on paint and wheels from brake dust, etc.).

Correction. Leveling of the finish to remove marring, swirling, etching, and scratches. This can be mild or extreme, obviously depending on the paint condition. This is where the experience, knowledge, and learned skill comes in - essentially, why a good detail costs a lot more than a cheap one. Leveling, by definition, involves removal of paint - clear coat in the case of our vehicles. A good detailer knows the steps, tools, and products required to remove only the minimum amount of paint necessary to make the finish look its best. A bad detailer, at best, won't remove enough or will not be consistent. At worst, he'll hack your finish, remove too much, and often times leave behind micromarring and other damage.

Protection. (Actually, also preparation for protection - removing oils and fillers from the compounds and polishes used to correct the finish.) Once prepped, you have three options here:

- Wax. Old school, but even today, nothing looks quite as good as paint after receiving a coat of a fine carnauba. Especially dark colors. Waxes offer minimal protection, both in terms of the amount of damage and the length of time before the protective qualities diminish. But boy, it looks good. Especially on dark colors. :)

- Sealant. Sealants use polymers that form a bond with the paint. Here you get quite a bit more protection, sometimes at a small cost of gloss or "wetness" that you expect from a wax. Sealants can be a bit more cumbersome to apply, requiring set up time and curing time after application to ensure maximum protection. Aside from offering more protection than a wax, sealants look really good on light colors and metallic & pearl finishes because of the "pop" they add. (You can top a sealant with a wax to get the best of both worlds...just follow the directions to ensure curing time requirements.)

- Ceramic coating. The new crown jewel. Maximum protection and great looks. The quality products on the market will offer two-ish years of great protection, awesome looks, and no repeat maintenance. The "pro" level products offer a bit more gloss and certainly more time - often five years or longer - of protection and ease of maintenance. Honestly, as easy as the "consumer" products are to apply, there's no real reason to consider a wax or sealant these days.

I hope that helps a bit. Detailing has its own language, and unfortunately there are a lot of folks out there who abuse the craft. Couple that with folks who want a good deal, and you end up with confusion and crappy results. I've been doing this for a bit over 15 years now, and easily half of my clients come to me to fix problems created by the cheap guy.

Where is the thumbs up button in this place!?! - I've been trying to determine through convoluted googly articles what just took you a brief moment to eloquently explain. Thank you!!