REVO's timing service venture

[REVOofRustler]

Well it finally happened at 173k miles! I went to the auto parts store to drain some old oil, got back in my car, and there was new rattle I hadn't heard before. Drove it home and it got slightly louder. Drove it around a little bit over the next couple days, and found that it was really quiet with a cold motor, but would get louder as it warmed up. So I'm 99% percent sure that I cracked a (another probably) guide. So no skipped timing, and no CELs, so I should be clear of any major damage. Anyways, I'm doing the job myself, firstly to save money, but also because the shop I would've taken it to is booked for the next 3 weeks. I figure I can get it done in about that time between work and a couple weekend trips I'm taking.

I replaced my AC compressor back in May so this first part was pretty straight forward. Only thing I got hung up on was one of the power steering lines that you have to disconnect from the cooler. It would not budge. It's the line that runs from the cooler to the pump, so I decided to just cut it and replace it while it's easy with everything out of the way.




Now here's something I'm definitely not stoked about. When I did my AC Compressor, which was 4,500 miles ago, I put in the JHM auto tensioner. My belt is already shredded :/. So stock tensioner will most likely be going back on with a new belt. I've been pretty happy with JHM so far, so maybe one of them would like to chime in?




So that was my stopping point for the night. I've got the day off tomorrow, so I'm hoping to get motor out sometime in the afternoon before heading off to a downhill mountain bike race for the weekend!

[badger.]

Good luck! I ripped into mine at 164k. Guide was definitely cracked, just not 100% broken yet.
For the auto tensioner, not sure what would cause the belt to shred so much, maybe some burrs on the inside of the pulley?? I know mine walked itself off 2 ribs over a couple months after the install. The belt was missing some chunks, all along one of the outside ribs. I had it all apart a couple weeks ago and the belt immediately popped over one rib within a day or so, so I had to go back into it all and replace it with a brand new belt shortly after that. So far so good... Also, I think the alternator mounts are actually "bushings" that can somewhat "float" as you install and can keep things aligned, but I'm not sure. Seems like it from what the bentely says anyway. I found that out after buttoning everything back up the second time and didn't feel like messing with it all again. Perhaps something is out of whack there?

Either way, keep us posted on the progress. There are lots of good threads around on the service so a quick search and reading might save you a lot of headaches and time :)

[emilio]

before you go any further, are you sure the noise is the chain and not the belt? if it was a distinct "rattling" then it probably is the chain, while more ticking or flapping noises would be the belt.

- emilio

[REVOofRustler]

Good luck! I ripped into mine at 164k. Guide was definitely cracked, just not 100% broken yet.
For the auto tensioner, not sure what would cause the belt to shred so much, maybe some burrs on the inside of the pulley?? I know mine walked itself off 2 ribs over a couple months after the install. The belt was missing some chunks, all along one of the outside ribs. I had it all apart a couple weeks ago and the belt immediately popped over one rib within a day or so, so I had to go back into it all and replace it with a brand new belt shortly after that. So far so good... Also, I think the alternator mounts are actually "bushings" that can somewhat "float" as you install and can keep things aligned, but I'm not sure. Seems like it from what the bentely says anyway. I found that out after buttoning everything back up the second time and didn't feel like messing with it all again. Perhaps something is out of whack there?

Either way, keep us posted on the progress. There are lots of good threads around on the service so a quick search and reading might save you a lot of headaches and time :)

Huh, that's interesting. I may go with a nicer belt and see if it holds up with the auto tensioner. I'll definitely check over the alternator mounting.

before you go any further, are you sure the noise is the chain and not the belt? if it was a distinct "rattling" then it probably is the chain, while more ticking or flapping noises would be the belt.

- emilio

I'm certain it's not because of the belt. The main reason I tore it apart in May when I did my AC Compressor was because I was actually getting a noise from the belt then. This noise I have now is definitely coming from the rear of the motor, whereas the noise from the belt sounded like it was coming straight through the radiator.


Anyways, between my little mountain biking trip, work, and some family stuff, I finally got the motor out today! Took me a bit longer than expected (about 10-12ish hours altogether), but it all went fairly smooth so I'm happy! I'll work on getting the transmission off tomorrow, and then see what all I can do from there!

[icanfly]

nice work - keep on moving!

Reach out if you have questions. I've got 2500 on my freshly self-done job and she's running like a top!
Be very careful when you are re-seating your electro-adjusters... take your time there, it can cost you a grand if you don't .
also, once you start taking the back of the motor apart, make sure you have good bolt management as they are all diff sizes and go in diff spots.
I used a sheet of cardboard, drew the back of the motor and stuck each bolt in its roughly respective position in the cardboard - this helped me keep track of the elevinty-billion bolts on the back of the motor.

[REVOofRustler]

I'll definitely ask if I have questions! That's partly why I started this thread haha. And that's a pretty genius way of organizing the screws too! I think what I'm going to do is put them in numbered bags according to size, and then I'll just use a sharpie on the timing covers to show which ones go where.

I got my transmission off when I got off work today. Not a huge step, but it's something at least. I'm gonna be gone for the weekend, so it's on hold again until I get back monday. I'm hoping I can identify what parts I need on Monday and hopefully get them ordered so they show up by the weekend. We'll see if that pans out, though.


Edit: Question! The socket used for the cam bolts, is that just a 12 point socket? Or is it actually some special one off sort of socket? I'm debating whether I want to buy the Schwaaben Tool kit or just rent it from JHM. The JHM kit has the socket whereas the Schwaaben does not. I have a set of 12 point sockets, though, so if that's what it is I'll just buy the kit.

[icanfly]

Yup 12 point.

I have the full set of you want to rent. I can ship Monday.

Pm if you need

[REVOofRustler]

Ok, cool. In that case I think I'll just buy the Schwaaben kit. Hopefully I won't have to use it more than once on my car, but I might be able to help some folks out with it up here.

[neilpaku]

I have the Schwaben kit but all you need is the M14 for the cam bolts. Just today I torqued down my cams and refitted the rear covers. My wife's car is a 2005 S4 Avant 6MT Dolphin Grey too! : ) The manual says to take the slotted bars out of the front of the cams when torquing down but I left them in, not to hold the cams but to ensure that they stayed in position. I have a large 24mm wrench to hold the cams while loosening/tightening, but found that I couldn't exert enough control to stop the cam shifting ever so slightly. They're good now though - the bars just about push in cleanly - takes a very light tap and that's close enough for me.

One interesting thing I noted is that the rear sealing flange (basically the big cover on the back of the engine in mine is 079 103 173L whereas it's supposed to be 079 103 171L according to the manual. It fits and all the bolts line up so who knows. Anyway, it's on now and the sealant is curing so it's just about beer oclock

[REVOofRustler]

So still no more progress, but I was wondering if anyone knew where I could this T fitting for the coolant overflow vent hose. I didn't notice the hose was still clipped to the firewall when pulling the motor, and this fitting snapped. I'm only finding it for sale with the entire vent hose, which is 200 bucks, so if anyone knows where I could find this, it would be much appreciated!

[kevinye77137]

If the T fitting is nothing special, I would just go home depot and find a similar size T fitting and call it a day.

[REVOofRustler]

I may have to try that ^. I may go ahead and replace the whole thing, though. I noticed the end of one of the hoses was starting to split, so it's probably best to nip that in the bud.

Got the timing covers off! Upper guide was cracked in half, with a piece floating around towards the left head, and the middle vertical guide was pretty much completely gone. I believe that chunk resting towards the bottom is what's left of it. I'll be going over everything more thoroughly tomorrow, and I'm gonna check my mechanical adjusters.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Ugghhh, makes me scared to think what might be floating around in my engine

Great thread tho, thanks for taking the time to document the process

[REVOofRustler]

Ugghhh, makes me scared to think what might be floating around in my engine

Great thread tho, thanks for taking the time to document the process

I always like reading up on these sort of projects before tackling them myself, so I figured I'd do my part and document it as well!

I was going to get the mechanical adjusters off tonight, but I don't have the timing tools to keep everything in place. So I went ahead and ordered parts/tools. I chose to order the JHM adjusters, just because I figure I'll want those in there whether my stock ones are bad or not. And if I change my mind, I'm sure I could sell them to another member. So this'll hopefully pick back up this weekend if ECS ships my order out soon enough.

[The Guvna]

I am at 106k miles but no sign of rattle or anything and am hopeful of both a) the mileage you got to without problems, and b) that a fella is taking the time to do it himself. I fully intend to do that also when the time comes as I have other vehicles to drive.

Good luck!

[REVOofRustler]

I am at 106k miles but no sign of rattle or anything and am hopeful of both a) the mileage you got to without problems, and b) that a fella is taking the time to do it himself. I fully intend to do that also when the time comes as I have other vehicles to drive.

Good luck!

Not to discourage you, but I do feel lucky to have gotten the mileage that I did! So far it's been more time consuming than actually difficult.


Question time! I got all my parts in along with the special tools and I'm ready to start taking it all apart. I've been trying to find a guide/service manual to follow without much luck. I know of the Bentley manual, but I only have Windows 8 so I don't think that's going to work. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Also, valve covers were dropped off at the Powder Coaters today ;)

[alcatranz518]

I had the same problem with Bentley, even went as far as getting an old machine with XP on it (after trying emulator(s) to switch through the OS on my win10 pc. I learned in the process of the registration that Bentley has an "online beta" version I guess they don't really publicize. I got the registration for that as well as the disk version and I can tell you I haven't used my disk version since. (https://www.bentleypublishers.com/membercenter/)

The online version has all the same as the disk, AND its usable on any pc, tablet, etc so give it a shot. I wish we had a physical printed copy of the FSM for our car, but this surely is next best. Take a few to learn how the navigation through it works, but once you figure it out its simple. If you lookup say, timing chain service it has links to get you to the areas to disassemble to get to that point. So instead of flippin pages in a book, you can just link to the correct section.

Hope this was helpful!

[MG15]

I had the same problem with Bentley, even went as far as getting an old machine with XP on it (after trying emulator(s) to switch through the OS on my win10 pc. I learned in the process of the registration that Bentley has an "online beta" version I guess they don't really publicize. I got the registration for that as well as the disk version and I can tell you I haven't used my disk version since. (https://www.bentleypublishers.com/membercenter/)

The online version has all the same as the disk, AND its usable on any pc, tablet, etc so give it a shot. I wish we had a physical printed copy of the FSM for our car, but this surely is next best. Take a few to learn how the navigation through it works, but once you figure it out its simple. If you lookup say, timing chain service it has links to get you to the areas to disassemble to get to that point. So instead of flippin pages in a book, you can just link to the correct section.

Hope this was helpful!

Great info. Thanks for the link.

[badger.]

You can also use the online to convert to pdf which makes it a breeze to have a local copy and print it out. I also leave an old laptop in the garage with wifi and can just load it up whenever I need it. I don't think I've used the "regular" version since I initially set it up in a VM in XP mode on my windows 7 desktop.

[alcatranz518]

+1

Thanks badger, I forgot to mention that detail and it is a HUGE benefit of the online version.

[REVOofRustler]

I will be checking that out once I get home today! Thanks a ton you guys!

[REVOofRustler]

Well it looks like it isn't going to be as simple as buying it online and activating it. I bought a license, but it won't let me activate it online because I need a "computer ID". This is something that you have to get on the eBahn program, which doesn't work without XP. I sent Bentley a message to see if there's a way around this. Sigh...

[badger.]

Set up a virtual machine to run XP.

http://www.howtogeek.com/171395/how-...-on-windows-8/

[alcatranz518]

I apologize Revo that was something I didn't know of, as I had all the XP stuff in place before I gained the online access and guess I didn't even realize they'd have it set like that. The virtual machine badger linked above should help you if the CS at Bentley can't (which I would struggle to accept their CS can't supply you with the access from a pc ID using your computer, EBahn, and personal info).

I tried virtual machine route (unsuccessfully), but it was unsuccessful only because I was trying to double it up going win8 -> win7 -> XP and also at the time win8 had just cbeen released, so I was quite limited on the capabilities of the emulators. I couldn't get it to function properly and it was very unstable. Fortunately, the virtual machine/ emulators should be much better now and be able to do it if Bentley CS can't help you.

[REVOofRustler]

Set up a virtual machine to run XP.

http://www.howtogeek.com/171395/how-...-on-windows-8/

I'll have to check and see if I have any XP discs laying around!

I apologize Revo that was something I didn't know of, as I had all the XP stuff in place before I gained the online access and guess I didn't even realize they'd have it set like that. The virtual machine badger linked above should help you if the CS at Bentley can't (which I would struggle to accept their CS can't supply you with the access from a pc ID using your computer, EBahn, and personal info).

I tried virtual machine route (unsuccessfully), but it was unsuccessful only because I was trying to double it up going win8 -> win7 -> XP and also at the time win8 had just cbeen released, so I was quite limited on the capabilities of the emulators. I couldn't get it to function properly and it was very unstable. Fortunately, the virtual machine/ emulators should be much better now and be able to do it if Bentley CS can't help you.

Oh, no don't apologize haha! I'll get this figured out. Hopefully I'll hear back fron Bentley soon.

[Bonz099]

i can host a very large file that is a fully functional VM with ETKA and ELSA. You would only need to download vmware player free. Anyone want to give me 16GB roughly of web storage?

[REVOofRustler]

Back in business! Bentley's CS got back to me with a link for the online beta. All I had to from there was log in and it brought me right to the manuals!

[Bonz099]

awesome! any other invites? :)

[REVOofRustler]

Oh man, I hate to do this to you guys, but it looks like I might've lied about it working. I am able to navigate through the different folders of the service manual (which is all I attempted while I was at work today) but once I try to open the file I need, it tells me I dont have an active subscription, which then leads me back to needing computer ID. In the email Bentley sent me, they said I wouldn't need to input the computer ID as long as I'm connected to the internet. I sent them another email with screenshots to see what I could be doing wrong. I'll update you guys tomorrow!

Bonz099 - No other invites, but I'm sure you could send them a message to Bentley and they'd get you set up.


In the mean time... Here's a picture of my car because I miss seeing her in one piece :(

[alcatranz518]

Beautiful ride! She'll be back soon!

Weird, with Bentley, but really hope to hear it was just a glitch, there's SO many of us with this or want the FSM and they really have a great thing there with the database online with access. I can't understand why a company like them wouldn't just have a normal purchase/ login for the site, it is so beneficial for all of us VAG owners and for their pockets. Its win win for all of us.

[REVOofRustler]

Weird, with Bentley, but really hope to hear it was just a glitch, there's SO many of us with this or want the FSM and they really have a great thing there with the database online with access. I can't understand why a company like them wouldn't just have a normal purchase/ login for the site, it is so beneficial for all of us VAG owners and for their pockets. Its win win for all of us.

Right? I don't see why they wouldn't want to make it so much more accessible. I have high hopes I'll get it cleared up today!

[REVOofRustler]

Well... no word from Bentley today after I sent them the message last night. I'm thinking they may have meant that the computer ID wasn't necessary when using the desktop application. There's gotta be some way for them to bypass that for someone only using it online.

[REVOofRustler]

Well I found my dad's old desktop stuffed in the closet which had windows 7 on it! Downloaded XP mode from Microsoft and got eBahn working on there. I still can't figure out how to get the online version to work, though. Anytime I try to open one of the manuals (i.e. "timing chain covers" or something similar), I get a message saying I don't have an active subscription to that content. Did either of you guys run into this? Or did it work right away once you got the link from Bentley?

Also, did you guys have to take off the chain sprockets on the exhaust cams? I only have the new bolts for the intake cams/cam adjusters. I know they're all stretch bolts and shouldn't be used twice, so I'm hoping I can leave the ones on the exhaust cams alone. Will this mess me up when I set my timing after putting all the new components in?

I don't have anything planned for this weekend, so I'm hoping I get the motor ready to go back in for the most part. Still waiting on my valve covers, but I should be able to go pick those up on Tuesday.

[Birdflu]

Wow, great thread! Exactly what I've been looking for before I start into this myself. I recently purchased a motor that was reported to have had the timing done, but apparently hasn't. My shop has it torn down but doesn't want to do the work unless they do the full-blown, big-air, every part under the sun service with oem parts. $4k was the estimate. Yeah, no.
Luckily I have space to do the work and a still-strong (fingers crossed) motor in the car ('07 Imola Avant 6MT), 116K miles.

I really appreciate all the Bently beta, as well as the photos and tech tips! I will definitely take photos and post my own experience in case it helps anyone else.

Cheers all!

[alcatranz518]

Well I found my dad's old desktop stuffed in the closet which had windows 7 on it! Downloaded XP mode from Microsoft and got eBahn working on there. I still can't figure out how to get the online version to work, though. Anytime I try to open one of the manuals (i.e. "timing chain covers" or something similar), I get a message saying I don't have an active subscription to that content. Did either of you guys run into this? Or did it work right away once you got the link from Bentley?

Have you tried to contact them with your current issue, having the disk setup but not online access? I researched my archive emails and found their response to my "support ticket", I hope this can help get you (and others) what is needed to get online going a little easier. Even though the online is beta, there isn't (or at least wasn't at the time) clear instructions on the online access compared to disk version.

Here you go:

"On Monday, June 15, 2015 7:02 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello ,
Below is a copy of a message posted to your account by Bentley Publishers.
Please use the links at the very bottom of this message to reply.
Support Ticket Number: 45xxx
From: Software Support
Sent: 2015 June 15, 10:00:54
To: alcatranz518
Subject: RE: activation?

Message: Hello,
Thanks for contacting us.

I enabled your web subscription just now, so it should work. Following are the instructions:

Hello ,

I am sorry you are running into an issue with activating this on your new machine. You won't be able to install this program on Windows 7 or 8 directly.

However, you now have access to our early BETA eBahn Web website for the Audi A4: 2005-2009. This is the same platform for which you already have an eBahn desktop registration.

To access the repair content:

1) Go to the website: http://ebahn.bentleypublishers.com.
2) Login using your email address ( [email protected] ) and password.

(If you don't have your password, or if you've forgotten it, click on the "Forgot My Password" button.)

This is an extension of your existing eBahn for Windows license and an Early Beta version of our eBahn Web website to registered users of our eBahn Desktop manuals and contains the exact same information that is on the DVD.

A few things to note:

Although you can log in to eBahn Web from anywhere, you can only access it from one location at a time. The eBahn Web interface does not support logging in with the same login from multiple computers at the same time. For this reason, as well as to optimize your experience, please remember to logout whenever you're done with the website.

Our hope is that eBahn Web offers a great deal more flexibility in compatible computer operating systems and configurations than our eBahn Desktop manuals. However, please check the known issues list at the link below to make sure you know the limitations of the site:

https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/x/9YVyBw

If you need to install your downloaded software program on your desktop also, or if you don't have internet access to access the eBahn website, please let us know and we can send you instructions on how to set up the software on your machine.

Please note the software program needs to be installed in either a Windows XP, Vista or a Virtual XP environment. Additional compatibility instructions can be seen below:

Windows 7, Vista and XP Compatibility

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

Best,

Stuart
eBahn software support

------- Original Message -----

I am registered and activated, but running a Windows 8.1 machine for 1 of my pc's. I am trying to use the online version which all works but won't allow me to access the content stating I need to "activate" but I see no way to activate that content with my current subscription.""

[REVOofRustler]

Wow, great thread! Exactly what I've been looking for before I start into this myself. I recently purchased a motor that was reported to have had the timing done, but apparently hasn't. My shop has it torn down but doesn't want to do the work unless they do the full-blown, big-air, every part under the sun service with oem parts. $4k was the estimate. Yeah, no.
Luckily I have space to do the work and a still-strong (fingers crossed) motor in the car ('07 Imola Avant 6MT), 116K miles.

I really appreciate all the Bently beta, as well as the photos and tech tips! I will definitely take photos and post my own experience in case it helps anyone else.

Cheers all!

Glad I could help! I probably wouldn't have even considered doing this myself if it hadn't been for the threads I saw that were already out there. This really is a helpful community!

Have you tried to contact them with your current issue, having the disk setup but not online access? I researched my archive emails and found their response to my "support ticket", I hope this can help get you (and others) what is needed to get online going a little easier. Even though the online is beta, there isn't (or at least wasn't at the time) clear instructions on the online access compared to disk version.

Huh, that's almost word for word what they sent me. Were you able to use the online version as soon as they sent that? Like you said in the inquiry, I can't find anywhere to activate the online subscription. Anyways, I'm off to finally continue on working on my car! Hoping to have timing all done today, and possibly dropping the oil pan to clean it out and reseal i.

[alcatranz518]

I was able to use it right after they turned it on for me. Did you try closing out of your browser then reopening it and trying (sometimes that helps webpages)..you know, because "computers make life so much easier"

[REVOofRustler]

I was able to use it right after they turned it on for me. Did you try closing out of your browser then reopening it and trying (sometimes that helps webpages)..you know, because "computers make life so much easier"

I tried just about everything hahaha. I'll see if they respond on monday and then we'll go from there.

I got the guides and everything off and I'm somewhat stuck on the mechanical adjusters. The stock ones really didnt look to bad, but I'd still like to put in the JHM ones. The problem I'm having is that one of them will not turn once everything is torqued down. I've pulled it apart and put it back together several times with a liberal amount of oil, and as soon as I start putting any torque on the bolts, it just will not turn. I have it sitting in some oil right now in hopes it'll seep in and help loosen things up. The other one went really smoothly and works like a charm. Did you guys run into anything similar?

[REVOofRustler]

Got both adjusters working smoothly today! I took apart the one that was sticking one more time, and made sure I had plenty of oil inside of it before reassembling. I did that by putting some fresh oil in a ziploc bag, and then just used a razor to put a tiny hole in the corner of the bag. It made it really easy to only get the oil where I wanted it, and not all over the table. Before I torqued the screws down, I also tapped all around it with a plastic screw driver handle in hopes of centering everything. Torqued the bolts to 10NM, and it works great now! I air checked both of them several times, so I'm pretty confident about them going back in the motor now.

Anyways, here are some pictures from yesterday and today:

Obligatory parts pile




Crank lock in place




I ground the top off a couple nails and used those to hold the tensioners in




Marked cam chain direction




Everything off




Rinse and repeat for the next two chains




Then here's two more chunks of the missing vertical guide




Here are all the larger pieces I've found




Mechanical Adjuster




Getting that little cap on and making sure it didn't fall off while putting it all together was a bit annoying




And here they are all finished! Those things just look cool, so I needed to get some better pictures of them haha







Here are the stock adjusters. I'd say they're in pretty good shape, especially considering they have over 170k miles on them. I probably could've just left these in and been fine, but I shouldn't have to worry about it at all with the JHM units. If any of you reading this need new adjusters on the cheap, let me know. I'm sure these have a good amount of life left, and I don't really have a use for them at this point.







So that's pretty much where I'm at right now. I did a little bit of spot cleaning, but it all looked pretty clean in there for the most part. I'm just gonna focus on getting the new timing components in today. I noticed there's a bolt missing holding in the sensor (?) on the electrical adjuster on the passenger bank, so I'm gonna need to take a trip to the hardware store before the covers go back on. I'm gonna wait to do my oil pan until the timing covers are all on and sealed up so that it'll be easier to put the motor on an actual motor stand. I'm sure you guys have figured by now that I like to take my sweet time on this stuff haha! Hopefully the motor will be ready to go in by next weekend.

[REVOofRustler]

More progress!

Made sure to switch this little O ring over to the new tensioner
















So here's where it got tricky. Since JHM only sends out two cam bolts with the timing kit, I didn't want to loosen my exhaust cam bolts (stretch bolts, so one time use). I put the chains from the crankshaft to the intermediate sprockets, and from the intermediate sprockets to the cams so that all the slack would be in the portions with the tensioners. I set the timing like that, and it's very close but I'm not sure if I'm satisfied with it. With cylinder 8 at TDC, the cam locators slide right into the slots on the passenger bank. The intake cam on the drivers side bank is off just a few degress to where the locator just doesn't fit.




I don't know if that's enough to make any difference, but I know it's something that would always be bugging me in the back of my mind. I just ordered 4 new bolts so can get it set the right way. I have some other stuff do before the motor is ready to go back in, so waiting a few more days to actually set the timing isn't too bad.


Questions: How/what are people breaking on the electronic adjusters during this process? As far as I can tell, they just let oil into the mechanical adjusters so the timing can shift. There aren't actually any exposed moving parts on the electrical adjusters. Is it the small guides on them that are breaking?